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Project Café Game Concepts

Pokémon Snap Café

by Andrew Brown - June 4, 2011, 9:36 pm PDT

A second screen for a handheld camera? Gotta Snap 'em All!


In the original game, players rode around the land in the motorized Zero-One vehicle, which followed along a set track as you tried to capture pictures of wild Pokémon in their natural habitats doing their Poké-thing. 
The vehicle is still a great idea as it could travel along varying terrains, move underwater and even hover and fly. This time however, give control to the player, so they can explore and drive wherever they want to go! Why not equip the thing with a drill or something so that players can burrow through certain walls to find caves teeming with Rock-type and Dark-type Pokémon?

I can see some players maniacally chasing and running over Pokémon with the vehicle just for kicks. I'd hope that during the mission debriefing after each stage, they would be penalized for such things - it's just not kosher. Of course, crashing your buggy into the backside of a Tyranitar or an Ursaring would not be a wise move to begin with anyway, and they'd probably retaliate with brute force. This could be part of the gameplay where in which there could be a time when your vehicle is so badly damaged that you fail the mission.


Assuming the controller will also contain some kind of gyroscope like the 3DS, moving and tilting the controller should move the camera, allowing the controller's screen to show a first person perspective of the camera lens is pointing at. Anyone doubting the use of gyroscopic camera control should play Face Raiders, it really does work. The TV screen could show the overhead third person view, this way you'd get two views of the same action, making it much more immersive.

There should also be times when you leave the vehicle and proceed on foot. Remember the episode of the Pokémon TV series when Todd Snap joins the group and they sneak into a phony Breeding Center to take photos? Imagine a mission where you have to infiltrate an entire facility owned by Team Rocket/Galactic/Plasma/Whatever, creep about without being seen and capture irrefutable evidence of Pokémon in cages, then stealthily slip out and report to Officer Jenny.

Lastly of course, I want to see MANY MORE LEVELS (the first game was so short it could be completed within a few hours), and MANY MORE POKéMON (likewise, the first game only featured some 60 or so of the 151 monsters in the first generation of games). Show Pokémon from all regions, heck, why not have levels set in all regions?  I don't care if they're so obscurely hidden that it takes months to uncover every last little creature hidden away, that's just the kind of difficulty this game needs.

Talkback

CericMay 27, 2011

A very Cinematic Devil May Cry Style game with a little bit of Character indication that something is wrong but the Hud moved to the controller making for a very Cinimatic presentation If I could play WoW without the Hud I would but I'm not that good.

Super Duper Scribblenauts.

A versus Puzzle game where each person has a puzzle on their respective screen that manipulates their vs entity on the main screen.

All the GBA Connection Games.

A platformer that you played on the big screen but the little screen would have bubbles you had to pop, or something similar, before it leaves your little screen and effects the big screen characters.  Later on some of those will be good and needed, making it hectic.

A Good RTS, Though for Kicks and giggles StarCraft2

Elite Beat Agents Super Awesome Extended Cafe Edition :D

Simon Says, Dut. Dut Dot. Dut Dot Dut.  Dut Dot Dut Dop.  Dut Dot Dut Dop Dop.

Mario Party Mini Game Vs.

Pokemon Stadium.  Literally, Pokemon Stadium.



Gauntlet.

Warioware minigame game.

You know if it has motion sensing and knows where the TV is than a game where you can bring the screen up like your looking through it and it acts as a detector of sort, like an Xray or MMR.

A Dora game that is an exact reproduction of the episodes because, Dora is really a TV Show about a PC Game.  So the three items show up on the big and little screen.  Where you need to point.  You could do the voice interaction through a microphone.  It be a solid game for kids.

Elite Beat Agents.. Oh wait.

Super Mario Time Trials.  This would be a versus games that takes levels from Super Mario Bros. 1, 2, 3, Land and pits players in speed runs agains each other.  The big Screen would be used to do an announcer style cut to each of the competitors as its going and verbally mentioning how well the players are doing.  Also have stats etc.  The players themselves would be playing through the level on their own screen.  At the end of a round the winner would be declared on the screens and the big screen would show "ghosts" of each player running through the level.

And RPG with Mini-game style combat, think Mario RPG, done on the touch screen for special attacks etc.  Be turn base but allow for people to jump in and take extra characters to move battles faster.  So with 4 players everyone would control and  do the minigames for a character.  With 2 then each person be responsible for 2 characters.  Then with one obviously they be doing each of the characters each turn and their mini-games.

A racing game with a Hot Potato type Mechanic.  So you be racing like F-Zero with friends but you need too keep this ball that shows up on your screen in play between each other or it will weigh down maybe damage your racer.

A gaming feature a Goo based main character which you can shape on your controller to get through different obstacles as you go on the fly.

Angry Bird Vs.  It be Angry Birds with a versus mode where each player get a puzzle on their screen. :P: :

I'm going to stop there.

LOL, I thought you were asking for concepts well.  You got them anyway.

4-DMay 27, 2011

Great ideas. If only Nintendo took suggestions from their fans!

StogiMay 27, 2011

I agree about taking suggestions, but if they only used fan suggestions we'd have a realistic 2D Mario plat former instead of instead of the amazing Super Mario Galaxy.

KDR_11kMay 27, 2011

Chou Soujuu Mecha MG.

CericMay 27, 2011

Quote from: KDR_11k

Chou Soujuu Mecha MG.

lol, I just listened to Greg Recommend this on RFN.

JasonMaiviaMay 27, 2011

I love the idea of using the controller screen as an item screen in offline multiplayer matches.  The use of having a rear view mirror may not be nesessary if there are warnings on the screen or that annoying sound that plays through your controller when you're being attacked.


Being asked to go online when friends are playing would be cool, but let's hope Nintendo isn't still living in the past.


Well, anyway, Cafe's controller better have rumble.  It makes no sense why only PS3's and 360's controller have rumble, but Nintendo's Classic Controllers doesn't.

famicomplicatedJames Charlton, Associate Editor (Japan)May 28, 2011

Quote from: The

I agree about taking suggestions, but if they only used fan suggestions we'd have a realistic 2D Mario plat former instead of instead of the amazing Super Mario Galaxy.

Or Metroid Prime 2 would have multiplayer....oh.
That's the good thing about suggestions, you can ignore the crazy ones and use the good ones. (or not)


I agree with Ceric that ALL GBA connection games have to be re-released, preferably as "CafeWare" downloadable titles.
$10 for Pacman Versus would be a steal. A $40/50 disk would be insulting.


Also, look out for Pedro's concept on that very topic, coming soon...

Chozo GhostMay 28, 2011

Quote:

with a button setup similar to a GameCube controller.

This is something I am really truly relieved to hear. Of course, its still just a rumor at this point, but even being a rumor that's still reassuring. I have been very nervous that Nintendo was going to go with the Classic Controller layout and make that permanent. If they return to the GC controller layout that would be awesome.  :)

I would pay $50 for a new Pac-Man Vs. if I had to. That's one of my absolute favorite multiplayer games ever.

JasonMaiviaMay 29, 2011

I'm kinda sick of paying full or near premium prices for old ideas and concepts.  It's become a Nintendo standard, and I've grown tired.

I'd rather have new ideas or improvements on the series that already exist.

Skyward Sword = YES
Zelda OOT 3DS = NO

Pikmin 3, Metroid Prime 4, New Chibi Robo, New Mario Sports games = Yes
New Play Control anything = NO

I'll go into a fit of rage if Nintendo announces any more ports at E3 outside off the Wiiware/DSiWare and Virtual Console services.

You don't have to buy them, and the idea that they're making those instead of making new games isn't really what's happening, so I don't see why you care as much as you do.

CericMay 29, 2011

Quote from: famicomplicated

Quote from: The

I agree about taking suggestions, but if they only used fan suggestions we'd have a realistic 2D Mario plat former instead of instead of the amazing Super Mario Galaxy.

Or Metroid Prime 2 would have multiplayer....oh.
That's the good thing about suggestions, you can ignore the crazy ones and use the good ones. (or not)


I agree with Ceric that ALL GBA connection games have to be re-released, preferably as "CafeWare" downloadable titles.
$10 for Pacman Versus would be a steal. A $40/50 disk would be insulting.


Also, look out for Pedro's concept on that very topic, coming soon...

Heaven forbid it but  Retro-collectionist disc with all of them would be nice and worth $50.  Though I really like it to just mimic it if you have a GCN game that uses them

StardustMay 29, 2011

I love the first Idea James C. puts up, it's sounds unique and awesome, but the only problem I find with the second idea is that lets say you get a star and keep it in reserve, then you get a golden mushroom in reserve also, eventually you can catch up to lets say fourth or fifth place, boom you use your golden mushroom as much as possible, then boom you use your star and then  it just becomes unfair and not fun. The best part about the game is the randomness (not saying this concept couldn't work) but i dont know if it would work out too well.

JasonMaiviaMay 29, 2011

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

You don't have to buy them, and the idea that they're making those instead of making new games isn't really what's happening, so I don't see why you care as much as you do.

Oh, I care, because I bought the Wii especially to play new games.  Instead, about 2/5 of the stuff Nintendo released are games that I've already own on Gamecube, with most of the others being things like WiiFit, Wii Music, and Wii Party.  We've come 5 years without a Wii Zelda, F-Zero, Wave Race, 1080, Pikmin, Chibi-Robo, and Custom Robo.
  Plus we juuuuuust for a Donkey Kong and Kirby game.

Iwata claims that the Wii was going to be home of more 1st party content, but I guess he wasn't talking to fans of the games that I mentioned.  Instead we get a couple of new games, a bunch of Wii__ games, and seven Gamecube ports (some of them didn't even come to North America).

So, I don't buy them.  That leaves me with very few 1st party games to choose from.  Once Nintendo starts porting old games, everyone else follows.
Zelda OOT 3DS is going to start this mess all over again.  I'm hoping that Zelda OOT fails, maybe this'll get other motivated to create NEW games.

Smited for having a big long list of franchises Nintendo neglected this generation and not mentioning Star Fox.

Also, we had to wait a while for Donkey Kong, but I'd argue it was totally worth it, and then some. Zelda's Zelda, of course it's going to take a while. I'm right there with you in regard to Pikmin, but if the rumors of Cafe are true, it makes sense to push the game to it. The rest of them are fringe series, and as much as I'd love a new Custom Robo or F-Zero, I understand why Nintendo might not be confident enough in those brands to make them.

Plus some of those GameCube rereleases are worth it. The Pikmin games, and especially the Metroid Prime games, really benefit from Wii controls.

JasonMaiviaMay 29, 2011

It was my mistake for not mentioning Star Fox.  It's also something I've wanted to have on Wii, especially since we got one on DS (it actually got me excited to have a console version).


Going back in time, it seems that the SNES (Outside Japan) and Virtua Boy were the only Nintendo consoles to not see at least two Zelda games specifically developed for it (not counting games ported to it).  There's also the CD-i (which saw multiple games, but I'm only focusing on Nintendo Consoles).


NES
- Legend of Zelda
- Adventures of Link: Zelda II

Super NES
-A Link to the Past

Game Boy/Color
-Link's Awakening
-Oracle of Seasons
-Oracle of Ages

Nintendo 64
-Ocarina of Time
-Majora's Mask


Game Boy Advance
-The Minish Cap
-Four Swords

Gamecube
-The Wind Waker
-Four Swords Adventures
-Twilight Princess

Nintendo DS
-Phantom Hourglass
-Spirit Tracks

Wii
-Link's Crossbow Training
-.................(that's it so far)


We don't really know for sure if Skyward Sword will ever make it.

Looking at F-Zero, you can see that there's been one on every home console since its birth:


Super NES
-F-Zero

Nintendo 64
-F-Zero X

Game Boy Advance
-F-Zero: Maximum Velocity
-F-Zero: GP Legend

Gamecube
-F-Zero GX

Wii
-................(*sigh*)



For Star Fox:

Super NES
-Star Fox
-Star Fox 2 (Cancelled, but at least it was being made.  I guess it doesn't really count.)

Nintendo 64
-Star Fox 64


Gamecube
-Star Fox Adventures
-Star Fox Assault

Nintendo DS
-Star Fox Command

Wii
-.............(WTF!?)



For Mario Party

Nintendo 64
-Mario Party 1
-Mario Party 2
-Mario Party 3


Gameboy Advance
-Mario Party Advance

Nintendo DS
-Mario Party DS

Gamecube
-Mario Party 4
-Mario Party 5
-Mario Party 6
-Mario Party 7

Wii
-Mario Party 8 (the one and only)


1080

Nintendo 64
-1080 Snowboarding

Gamecube
-1080 Avalanche

Wii
-............(I liked the games, but does Nintendo?)


Wave Race

Gameboy
-Wave Race

Nintendo 64
-Wave Race 64

Gamecube
-Wave Race: Blue Storm

Wii
-........... (Ugh!)


Mario Tennis

Nintendo 64
-Mario Tennis

Gameboy Color
-Mario Tennis

Gamecube
-Mario Power Tennis

Gameboy Advance
-Mario Tennis: Power Tour

Wii
-.............(GC port)


Mario Golf

NES
-NES Open Tournament Golf (known as Mario Open Golf in Japan)

Nintendo 64
-Mario Golf

Gameboy Color
-Mario Golf

Gamecube
-Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour

Gameboy Advance
-Mario Gold: Advance Tour

Wii
-...............(Arrgh!)


To me, these games aren't throwaways.  They make up most of what gamers want from Nintendo, which is why the Wii doesn't look so good for many of us.  When 3rd Party support is weak, what else do you turn to, but the Xbox360 and/or PS3.  Still, in my opinion, the Wii is certainly one of my least favorite Nintendo consoles when it comes down to just Nintendo games.

Can you understand how disappointed I am?  Five years later, the Wii is missing a lot of game franchises.

Skyward Sword is certainly coming, and will certainly be a Wii game. It may also be a Cafe game, but it counts as a Wii game, as Twilight Princess counted as a GameCube game. Also, three Mario games (all of them great) beats two Zelda games any day in my book.

I can totally understand why Nintendo isn't sure about what to do with F-Zero, though I think it will be more at home on 3DS and Cafe due to its ability to show off the hardware, something the series has always been good at. With Star Fox I get the feeling from some interviews I've read that Miyamoto wants to make another one, so I think that's just a matter of when.

I like Mario Party and Golf and Tennis, but I'm really not too broken up about the lack of them on Wii.

The reason I love the Wii is that Nintendo has decided, for whatever reason, to pump out platformer after platformer for the thing, and since that's by far my favorite kind of game, I let them slide on everything else. The Galaxies and DKCR are all-time great platformers, and NSMBWii and Wario Land and Kirby's Epic Yarn are all awesome too.

famicomplicatedJames Charlton, Associate Editor (Japan)May 29, 2011

We didn't get a 2D Mario game or Donkey Kong on the GameCube and only one (average) 3D Mario game, compared to the Wii where we got two excellent ones.
We can't expect everything on every console otherwise it might get stale, let's hope Cafe comes up with the goods for games we haven't seen in a while!
I'll put my votes in for F-Zero, Wave Race and 1080 Snowboarding.

You guys got any ideas on what features they would have on P.Cafe, other than the obvious HD visuals?

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterMay 29, 2011

Here is my piece for the feature: Four Swords Cafe:
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/feature/26433

LouieturkeyMay 29, 2011

Yes, give me Four Swords Adventure Cafe and include the GC version in some capacity.  That is the number one game I want from the Cafe.  I probably won't buy a Cafe until this game is released for it.

TurdFurgyMay 29, 2011

Yes! I would love another Four Swords! I think it would be cool if you also had the option to play online so you would have your own screen and what have you.

Ian SaneMay 30, 2011

Quote:

This is something I am really truly relieved to hear. Of course, its still just a rumor at this point, but even being a rumor that's still reassuring. I have been very nervous that Nintendo was going to go with the Classic Controller layout and make that permanent. If they return to the GC controller layout that would be awesome.


The Gamecube layout is useless for fighting games.  It's a setup that sounds neat in theory but doesn't really provide much of an advantage and it doesn't work well for some games.  The diamond setup for face buttons is the standard so most games will be made for it.  It doesn't matter if it's not an ideal setup.  QWERTY is not the ideal setup for keyboards but it's the standard so you follow it or your "better" keyboard is borderline useless.

And the thing is Nintendo invented that button setup in the first place so it isn't like they stole it from Sony.  I see the CC not as a Dualshock knock-off but more like Nintendo going back to the standard they invented in the first place.  And it has been the standard for a reason - it is very flexible.  Yes, some other controller layouts might work better for SOME games but then they also don't work well for other games.  But the CC design works well for pretty much everything.  It is not always the best but it never really outright sucks either.  A controller has to be generic enough to work with a lot of different ideas.  The Gamecube controller worked well for games designed specifically for it and like complete balls for everything else.  Due to the wide variety of genres and control schemes out there a generic design is a safer bet.

Four Swords is an obvious but very awesome idea.  It is one of the best Gamecube games.  The only problem is that the hardware requirements for it are insane.  Online play should be an option and I like the idea of also including the original game.  Why not since few got to play it?  Though it seems more Nintendo like to just re-release the Cube game instead of including it as a bonus with a new one.  I would only bother with a new one.

Bman87301May 30, 2011

I'd say the flaw with this idea is that it's assuming that multiple touch screen controllers will be widely accessible. I don't think that will be the case. Considering how much such a controller would cost, it would pretty much create for the same situation the original had. I have a feeling this 'touch screen controller' is going to be more of a standard peripheral, rather than the standard control method. Considering the Wii's success, completely abandoning the remote concept seems like it would be a pretty dumb move on Nintendo's part. It's my guess that a remote will remain the standard controller. And this touch screen device will have more auxiliary-like purposes--  it will allow you to take taking the action with you around the house and/or for acting as multi-functional add on, like occasionally doubling as a keyboard. That being said, I'd only expect it to be widely used for single player experiences, and the console may not even support multiple ones at a time.

Chozo GhostMay 30, 2011

Ian, I assume that since Nintendo is most likely going to allow the Wiimote to function with the Cafe it will probably also allow the Classic Controller to work as well. This way gamers will have some choices... not to mention the fact that 3rd parties can and will introduce their own controllers. You say the GC controller sucks for fighting games, but that's actually true with any standard controller. The best controller for 2D fighters is a joystick like they use in arcades, and recent games like the new Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter IV actually have their own official branded arcade joysticks available for purchase.

Aside from the standard Cafe controller, I would also expect the Wiimote, wiimote w/ nunchuk, and classic controller to all be supported control methods. Nintendo isn't going to just throw out the wiimote, and since the classic controller tethers itself to that one could reasonably expect support for that to be there as well.... but its going to be something that the game developers will have to provide for. If its the sort of game where it makes sense, then they probably will support it.

JasonMaiviaMay 30, 2011

-I'd like to play old Virtual Console games online, like what was done on Xbox Arcade and Playstation Network (the Wii REALLY missed out on these).

-With Skype, it'd be nice to call any person on your friend network, even if they're playing a different game.  Skype is on PS3, PSP, and now Microsoft will probably use it for their systems, leaving Nintendo out again, if they don't include it (if Sony doesn't stop supporting it).

-I do think that the Gamecube controller design needs to die.  It doesn't work to well with too many games, especially games that relies on precision controlling with the D-Pad, like fighters and most other 2D games.  Ever play Metal Slug Anthology on Wii?  Unless you have the Japanese version, there's no D-Pad support for Gamecube controllers or Classic Controller support at all, which kinda hurts it.  Oh, and personally, I don't like using joysticks for fighters.
  Gamecube's shoulder buttons are also very bad.  The extra click was hardly used, even by Nintendo, and the Z button is out of place.
  Gamecube's 4 face buttons' placement and shapes only made some games harder to play.  I was happy to see it not used for the Classic Controller's design, and I don't want it to return for the Cafe's controller.

-More programs on the Nintendo Channel, along with Nintendo Week.  Expand.

-Online games with drop in/drop out play with an invitation system.

-ALL GAMES WITH STANDARD CONTROLLER SUPPORT (this is more of a developer thing).  There wouldn't be much of a problem with games like Virtua Tennis 4 if the main controller packed in with the system was the Classic Controller instead of just the Wiimote/Nunchuck.

The GameCube controller is awesome. It's easily the most ergonomic controller design ever. I wouldn't mind if they switched the buttons to the layout on the Classic Controller, and they should make the D-Pad a bit bigger and add a fourth shoulder button, but everything else should stay the same.

JasonMaiviaMay 30, 2011

I'd prefer using the Classic Controller Pro, turning the ZR and LZ buttons (I friggin' hate the names) into analog triggers, and swaping the D-Pad and Analog stick placements.

In the end, you'll end up with the Xbox controller.  I don't like having the left analog stick in the center, like Playstation's.




Also....what does the +2/-3 mean under my avatar?

Ian SaneMay 30, 2011

I really dig the ergonomics of the Cube controller.  It always felt so perfect in my hands.  But it is also a great example of how Nintendo half-asses something when they don't give a fuck.  It is clear they didn't care about a d-pad (ironic since these days they love it) so they just shoved the GBA one on there which was so small it was practically useless.  Third parties requested a Z trigger (admitingly a dumb request) so Nintendo just threw some crappy Z button wherever.  The Cube controller just reaks of Nintendo doing what they want to do perfectly and doing what they are requested to do by others with the absolute bare minimum effort imaginable.

But if they could get a controller to just melt in my hands like that again, I'm all for it.

I want Nintendo to make everything with the same care and attention to detail they show for things they care about.  When they care they can move mountains.  If they put that same effort into everything else they would untouchable.  When they want to they really get things right.

StogiMay 30, 2011

Quote from: Ian

When they care they can move mountains.  If they put that same effort into everything else they would untouchable.  When they want to they really get things right.

*tears up*

Ian's dead everyone.

Quote from: JasonMaivia

I'd prefer using the Classic Controller Pro, turning the ZR and LZ buttons (I friggin' hate the names) into analog triggers, and swaping the D-Pad and Analog stick placements.

In the end, you'll end up with the Xbox controller.  I don't like having the left analog stick in the center, like Playstation's.




Also....what does the +2/-3 mean under my avatar?

When you think about it, you and I pretty much described the same thing. I just started from the GameCube design and you from the CCPro.

The +2/-3 is your karma score. Once you get to 1,000 posts little buttons will appear under people's names that allow you to applaud or smite them for their post, which will increase the first and second numbers, respectively. Word of advice: don't pay much attention to that. It doesn't really mean anything, and isn't worth worrying about.

StogiMay 30, 2011

It is worth worrying about if you suck at life.

I like to be positive about the people who visit this site and assume they don't suck at life until proven otherwise.

A positive karma score embiggens the smallest man.

Quote from: Zap

A positive karma score embiggens the smallest man.

This is a very cromulent post.

Bman87301May 30, 2011

Quote from: Chozo

Aside from the standard Cafe controller, I would also expect the Wiimote, wiimote w/ nunchuk, and classic controller to all be supported control methods. Nintendo isn't going to just throw out the wiimote, and since the classic controller tethers itself to that one could reasonably expect support for that to be there as well.... but its going to be something that the game developers will have to provide for. If its the sort of game where it makes sense, then they probably will support it.

But the thing is, we don't actually know what the standard Cafe controller will be. It could be an upgraded Wii-type Remote which would eliminate the need for for the old Wii Remote and Classic Controllers anyway. Like I already said in an earlier post, we know there's going to be a touch screen device of some sort, but we don't know that will be the primary control method. Considering the impracticalities and and high price tag additional controllers of that type would entail, I'm going to assume that this touch screen device is not it. Until we hear otherwise, I'm going to bet on it being a redesigned Wii-style Remote/Nunchuk combo.

BlackNMild2k1May 30, 2011

Quote from: Zap

A positive karma score embiggens the smallest man.

What does it do to one that is already big? http://i.imgur.com/5DIyR.gif

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

Quote from: Zap

A positive karma score embiggens the smallest man.

What does it do to one that is already big? http://i.imgur.com/5DIyR.gif

It helps him marry his cousin.

famicomplicatedJames Charlton, Associate Editor (Japan)May 31, 2011


Don't get too hung up on button layouts guys, this is all about game ideas/concepts and what we want to see in the next iterations of our favourite Nintendo games.
The GameCube-esque mock-up picture is just there for reference to show the screen in the middle of a controller (I could have chosen a Classic Controller just as easily)


But yeah, I do hope they don't screw up the button layout with the Cafe one, we've had unusual/non-standard layouts since the N64 now!

Loving the Jebediah Springfield references by the way!


Look out for another exciting P.Cafe concept from Carmine Red coming soon!

Chozo GhostMay 31, 2011

Quote from: JasonMaivia

-I do think that the Gamecube controller design needs to die.

*smite*

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

The GameCube controller is awesome.

*applaud*

JasonMaiviaMay 31, 2011

@ Chozo Ghost

Every try playing Capcom vs SNK 2 EO on the Gamecube?

Horrible!

Bman87301May 31, 2011

Quote from: famicomplicated

Don't get too hung up on button layouts guys, this is all about game ideas/concepts and what we want to see in the next iterations of our favourite Nintendo games.
The GameCube-esque mock-up picture is just there for reference to show the screen in the middle of a controller (I could have chosen a Classic Controller just as easily)


But yeah, I do hope they don't screw up the button layout with the Cafe one, we've had unusual/non-standard layouts since the N64 now!

Loving the Jebediah Springfield references by the way!


Look out for another exciting P.Cafe concept from Carmine Red coming soon!

In the meantime, check out my Project Cafe concept design:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/bman87301/cafe-1-1.jpg


"Look! It's some sort of land cow!"

famicomplicatedJames Charlton, Associate Editor (Japan)May 31, 2011

Quote from: JasonMaivia

@ Chozo Ghost

Every try playing Capcom vs SNK 2 EO on the Gamecube?

Horrible!

I found it quite natural to push up-left on the C-stick to do an uppercut.
/sarcasm.

@Bman87301
Nice concept Bman, although do you think they'll use wires again?
I personally hope for completely wire free, plus a dock to charge everything as part of the console's design.

Bman87301May 31, 2011

Quote from: famicomplicated

Nice concept Bman, although do you think they'll use wires again?
I personally hope for completely wire free, plus a dock to charge everything as part of the console's design.

I expect a wired connection for the same reason iPods still use wired headphones-- there's not enough reason to justify the need of the extra batteries a connection that's only a few feet apart would require-- not to mention the extra hassle of keeping track of the multiple parts. A wireless connection for a controller to a console is one thing, but where's the benefit or practicability of wirelessly connecting something only as far as the distance between your right and left hands? I know some third parties have had some success with wireless Nunchuks because it's sellable as a gimmick. As far as logistics go though, it's just not practical as a standard design. Sure, the wire design on the current Wii Nunchuk definitely is flawed since it hangs down and gets in the way. But if you take a closer look at my design you'll see I addressed that issue by giving the wire a phone-style coiling design.  The new wire design solves that issue, so making it wireless would just be overkill in my opinion.

But I do agree with you that some of dock for recharging batteries built-in to the controllers is a good bet. Especially since the extra weight the use of AAs added was a large part of what let to "flying Remote" issue that gave Nintendo so many headaches for the Wii. Since Nintendo already included a charging dock with the 3DS, I'm going to say something similar for Cafe's controllers is nearly certain.

Nik VendiersJune 01, 2011

After playing along with the Retroactive of Perfect Dark it got me thinking about the evolution of Nintendo consoles and the way that they play first person shooters. Although Nintendo often seems to leave the FPS genre behind compared to its highly prized platforming Mario titles and other first party games, when you look at the evolution of first person shooters on Nintendo consoles, it has always been innovative. Although this is not to say it has always been the best as I was told the N64 used an interesting setup of strafing and aiming using the one analog stick and C-buttons. I can only shudder at the thought of how difficult that must have been. But this was changed again with the Gamecube and for this example I'll use the Metroid titles which used a system of movement with the control stick then aiming while you held down the left trigger. Although this wasn't much better then what I presume using the N64 setup would have been like, it was different. Change was implemented again with the introduction of the Wii, which offered an amazing system of the current point-and-click aiming. This system works wonderfully and it's sad to see that Nintendo hasn't really pushed the genre to compete with the more popular FPS games such as Halo and Call of Duty on the other platforms. On a side note, although it is not a main console, the DS also offered unique controls with the touchpad such as with Metroid Hunters, which also performed well and was fun to play. Again, also very little support from Nintendo to continue the FPS genre on the DS. From all of this my point is to come to the next Nintendo system: Project Cafe. Perhaps I'm missing something but the controller really does not seem to be very innovative as far as I can tell. Placing a DS on a remote is far from unique, why not just play the system with multiple DS systems then? Does anyone have any speculations on how Nintendo might use the new controller to create a unique and different way to play first person shooters, or do you think they might just fall in line with the Xbox 360 and PS3 and just use a dual analog control with some touch screen usage?

Just throwing out my thoughts but in the end I suppose we'll have to wait for the release at E3 to truly know how things will turn out.

Bman87301June 03, 2011

All these game ideas all seem to be based around concepts using multiple touch-screen controllers at once and rectifying the failed GBA to GCN connectivity idea. Maybe I'm missing something, but if getting multiple GBAs together was too pricey to succeed, then where's the logic of assuming an additional controller that has a built-in screen, full set of buttons buttons, and streaming capabilities would be all that more economical? The absolute cheapest I could possibly picture a device like that costing is $80... and again, that's the absolute cheapest-- meaning it would most likely be even higher. I don't understand how anyone could reasonably expect it to be commonplace for people to have multiple of these to play in unison together. I'd only expect one for each system, therefore none of these ideas could possibly work. Unless I'm missing something to your logic...

Chozo GhostJune 03, 2011

$80 for a controller is reasonable considering controllers now cost $50, and in the case of the Wiimote plus chuck you have to spend an extra $20 for the nunchuck so on the Wii you are spending $70 per controller (and that doesn't include other peripherals such as a wheel, zapper, classic controller, etc). We are also living in an era where games cost $60, so for just $20 more than what you'd spend on a game you might beat in a week you can buy a controller which is good for the entire lifespan of the console and beyond. So I don't think its unreasonable to spend $80 especially considering all the hardware the Cafe controller is alleged to come packed with (touch screen, IR, camera, etc.)

Also, if you can use it as a universal remote for every TV and entertainment device you own then it would also be worth it for that reason alone.

ETA: An $80 Cafe controller which streams content is a far more economical prospect than the GCN-GBA connectivity scheme. For one thing, didn't the GBA handheld cost more than $80? On top of that, you had to buy a GBA Cartridge for each and every GBA which was where it really got expensive and absurd. You also needed link cables for each GBA to link up to the GCN.

Since the Cafe is wireless there is no need for link cables, and since content is streamed back and forth there is no need to own multiple versions of the same game in order for 2-4 or more players to all get in on the action. With the Cafe each player only needs their own controller, and that's it... period.

CericJune 03, 2011

Quote from: Bman87301

All these game ideas all seem to be based around concepts using multiple touch-screen controllers at once and rectifying the failed GBA to GCN connectivity idea. Maybe I'm missing something, but if getting multiple GBAs together was too pricey to succeed, then where's the logic of assuming an additional controller that has a built-in screen, full set of buttons buttons, and streaming capabilities would be all that more economical? The absolute cheapest I could possibly picture a device like that costing is $80... and again, that's the absolute cheapest-- meaning it would most likely be even higher. I don't understand how anyone could reasonably expect it to be commonplace for people to have multiple of these to play in unison together. I'd only expect one for each system, therefore none of these ideas could possibly work. Unless I'm missing something to your logic...

Let's put it like this.  The cost of a GBA was $89.99 and the link cable was $5 I think.  So $94.99.  Now imagine its 2004 and you need to spend $95 to play  Four Swords how its meant to be played per person.  Now lets looks at inflation.  That $94.99 would be $108.71 per person now.

Take in the fact that you could only use this for a handful of games (Hi! Motion Plus, Wii Board, CC, CC Pro, etc) and to get a whole party together you spend $380 on additional tech to your Gamecube, though realistically everyone should have had a GBA... Now what if instead those 4 other controllers where the Actual game controllers?  You'll probably won't more of them anyways.  Not to mention as I've said before the cost of all their talking about has gone down dramatically since just last year.  Nintendo doesn't have to use the uber screen or anything.  Shoot they could use the original DS Phat pretty much everything.

Though in the end the biggest thing this proves is that Current controllers are really a ripoff now.

BlackNMild2k1June 03, 2011

Quote from: Bman87301

All these game ideas all seem to be based around concepts using multiple touch-screen controllers at once and rectifying the failed GBA to GCN connectivity idea. Maybe I'm missing something...

The reason connectivity failed is because it required you to go buy extra hardware that was likely only compatible with 1 or 2 games and then served no other connectivity purpose and you no longer have a need of the other 4 pieces of hardware. That doesn't justify the cost.
1 GC + 4 GBA's + 1 Game + 4 Cables + 3 other friends = BYOS or we ain't playing this game.

Nintendo tried to bring us Connectivity and it was just too expensive and not supported.
Sony tried to bring us connectivity, but it was too expensive and didn't work right.

Now Nintendo is gonna build in connectivity so that it can be supported by every developer from the start and that alone will justify the cost.

Chozo GhostJune 03, 2011

Odds are when friends get together they will all own their own Cafe system, so they can just bring their controller which came bundled with their system along to the get together so that way there won't be much need to invest in additional controllers.

Bman87301June 03, 2011

It may be more economical than GBA to GCN connectivity, but not by enough to design multi-player games around. Most people don't even buy more than one or two extra Wii Remotes. Seriously, how many people do you know who have all four? Most don't own more than two, because at $40 one is extra is enough. I'm still quite confident that you're all kidding yourselves because you want to believe a local multi-player design could work, and not because you realistically think it will. At this point, I expect this touch screen controller is going to be primarily, if not exclusively, for single player experiences (not counting online), and for giving you an option of playing away from the TV. It'll likely be an auxiliary controller, not the main controller-- which will most likely be another pointer-based controller (which works well for both single player experiences and multi-player parlor games anyway). This touch screen controller will appeal mainly to gamers. I don't see the casual crowd flocking to it, and I don't see Nintendo willing to lose them. Nintendo will be trying to lure in both. That's where this secondary controller comes in... It certainly won't be designed around multi-player.

StogiJune 03, 2011

It all depends on how long this next generation will last and how well Nintendo markets their product. If people find it worth the price, they'll buy it.

BlackNMild2k1June 03, 2011

Quote from: Bman87301

I'm still quite confident that you're all kidding yourselves because you want to believe a local multi-player design could work, and not because you realistically think it will.

We all know that it could work, but the only way to give it a fair chance is to make it something the system is designed around doing and using.

Wiimote was originally a GC add-on, that is why we saw the Wii released the way it was. Wii was an extension of the GC designed around working with the controller.
Cafe will be designed around working with the controller in the same way.

Chozo GhostJune 03, 2011

Quote from: Bman87301

I'm still quite confident that you're all kidding yourselves because you want to believe a local multi-player design could work,

We're not kidding ourselves. This is going to be the standard default controller of the system and for that reason anyone who develops games for it is going to be REQUIRED to develop their games with that controller in mind. Its not some derp de derp peripheral that just a few people are going to own and only 2 or 3 games are going to support. If the Cafe sells 50 million units then that means there are going to be (at a minimum) 50 million of these controllers out there, and if there are 700 games made for it than that's going to be 700 games that are designed to work with that controller. Let's say 350 of those games support local multiplayer, well there you go... so how exactly is that not working?

Ian SaneJune 03, 2011

Quote:

  Odds are when friends get together they will all own their own Cafe system, so they can just bring their controller which came bundled with their system along to the get together so that way there won't be much need to invest in additional controllers.


We sort of do this with the Wii since I don't have four remotes.  It doesn't always work too well as people forget to bring them and many guys don't own one.  Plus it does not allow for spur of the moment gaming where people are over for some other reason.  The second you have anyone over that doesn't have one then you basically have a one player system.

If they have $80 controllers this is going to be land of single player and online games.  If you think offline multiplayer is dying now, this will kill it good.

StogiJune 03, 2011

Yet another on queue overreaction.

Chozo GhostJune 03, 2011

Multiplayer games are also possible with a single controller as long as players take turns. There are some multiplayer games which require a controller to be passed around.

famicomplicatedJames Charlton, Associate Editor (Japan)June 04, 2011

I too imagined people bringing their $80 controllers round to their friends house for multiplayer games, but what if you want to play with a friend who doesn't have one yet?


Also, remember the GBA->GameCube connection games, they were all based around the concept of "bring your GBA (and cable) round to someone's house and play together" - and that didn't work out too well.


It's a difficult balance to make, it shouldn't be so cheap and crappy that it only costs $50, but it shouldn't be so amazingly over featured that it costs over $100!
I hope Nintendo get it right on June 7th!!

Chozo GhostJune 04, 2011

Quote from: famicomplicated

I too imagined people bringing their $80 controllers round to their friends house for multiplayer games, but what if you want to play with a friend who doesn't have one yet?

Either you buy it, or he buys it, or you both pitch in $40 and then you both mutually own it.

That said, most people probably won't own more than two of them. One will obviously come bundled with the system, and another one might be obtained through a bundle deal with some game ala Wii Play/Wii Play Motion. I suspect there would be some "Cafe Play" collection of minigames on a disc which comes bundled with a Cafe controller, because why not? That strategy paid off for Nintendo in leaps and bounds so why wouldn't they do it again? Just like Wii Play, Cafe Play would go on to be one of if not the best selling Cafe games because people would be buying it for the bundled controller, but get a $10-$20 collection of games with that basically for free.

Bman87301June 04, 2011

I still say you're kidding yourselves if you think this is going to be the standard controller used for multiplayer. Wii was by far the most profitable system this generation, so they're not going to abandon the Wii remote-styled wand controls. You're looking at it from a gamer's perspective, which Nintendo already proved with the Wii's success that focusing primarily on gamers is not where the profit is. Sure, Nintendo wants to draw the gamers back as well, but there's no point in doing that if they lose the casual crowd in the process. Since non-gamers would never pay $80-100 for a controller (especially if the console itself is $300+, which it most certainly will be), you can't expect games to be designed around that model-- especially if those games are part of franchises that would appeal to that crowd (Mario Kart, Animal Crossing).

As gamers, we look down on the casual crowd and want to believe casual gaming is just a fad that Nintendo will eventually abandon, but it's not realistic. If you stop to look at it from Nintendo perspective, as I believe I have, you get a very different view. And I'm picturing a completely different strategy, and so far if this Nikkei story is to believed, I'm right on the money so far-- as my original ideas described in my entry for the check list contest matches up extremely close (and I posted my entry before the story broke). So, I'm pretty confident in my view on this.

BlackNMild2k1June 04, 2011

ClubN Elite award bonus for 2012 - $25 off Café Controller
Just in time for it's release party @ E3 2012.

Actually, I've been trying to think of what a Café Play game would be like. I wasn't really able to come up with anything that would show off the controller (considering I don't know 100% what it is yet). But I imagine the collection of mini games would likely be made up of marble madness, scrambled puzzle pieces, Elite Beat Agents/Rhythm Tengoku, Face training and other games that mostly use the touch screen and motion sensing of the controller

Chozo GhostJune 04, 2011

Quote from: Bman87301

I still say you're kidding yourselves if you think this is going to be the standard controller used for multiplayer.

Its going to be the standard controller period. So of course its going to be the standard controller for multiplayer. I'm sure the wiimote will be compatible with the Cafe mainly for backwards compatibility purposes, but the main controller is going to be whatever comes bundled with the console.

As for non-gamers, the Cafe controller sounds like its soemthing that would be attractive to both hardcore and non-gamers alike, because its a standard controller so that's good for the hardcore crowd, but its also got a touchscreen like the DS so that's going to be a great thing for the casual market. So its going to be a controller that will appeal to everyone. So no, Nintendo is not turning their backs on non-gamers.

Bman87301June 04, 2011

Quote from: Chozo

Its going to be the standard controller period. So of course its going to be the standard controller for multiplayer. I'm sure the wiimote will be compatible with the Cafe mainly for backwards compatibility purposes, but the main controller is going to be whatever comes bundled with the console.

Who says this touch screen thing is going to be the only input device included in the box? How do you know it's not going to come bundled with a new type of remote as well as this touch screen device? You don't.

Need I remind you that the touch-screen and dual analog controls weren't the only details that initially leaked about this system. Pretty consistent reports suggesting Wii-style motion controls were out there too that would use a new tracking system? This info largely seems to have gotten glossed over by the gaming press who've instead been focusing on the touch screen idea, but it was still out there and shouldn't be ignored. Since it seems unlikely that both a 6" touch screen and a Wii-styled motion pointer (which pointer tracking pretty much guarantees) could be part of the same device, it's fairly reasonable to guess that there's more than one controller with this system.

Heck, I could easily picture two SKUs of the system-- a higher ended one meant for gamers that comes with a motion controller, the touch screen controller, and an HMDI cable. As well as a lower ended one that has the motion controller only, component cables, and bundled with a Wii Sports-type casual game. I'm fairly convinced that this touch screen "controller" will come standard with the system (at least in an SKU designed for gamers), and can be used as a controller, but that won't necessarily be its only purpose, or even its primary one.

Assuming it will be "the standard controller period" is foolhardy since we haven't gotten any real solid information to determine if this even the only controller. You ought to keep an open mind and not automatically assume you know all the answers before anything has even been revealed.

Edited--- Text wall fixed, happy now?

BlackNMild2k1June 04, 2011

Actually there weren't any rumors about a new remote that I remember. But there was a rumor that it would have better motion sensing than Move

Dev Kits out for Months - Better Motion than Move

Quote:

They have also claimed that the system retains motion control, with capabilities that are “better than Move”, meaning that they boast higher fidelity. We do not yet have word on whether or not its motion-controlled solution introduces a camera.

There have also been rumors that the system is fully BC which means it supports Wiimotes which means there is some IR somewhere included with the system (supposedly on the controller)

Now you could assume that Nintendo would have a Wiimote2.0 packed in the box, and they might, but it would also be kinda silly to assume that the big screened controller that will definitely be the center point of the console will not be the main controller... but I still hold out hope for a Wiimote/chuck 2.0 as an alternative and cheaper control method, especially for multi-player?

Why couldn't you get a Café controller with dock and a Wiimote 2.0 in the box? It sounds like a great idea to me. We all know that there has got to be a pretty hefty mark-up on Wiimotes after 200million of them have been sold, so it would probably cost Nintendo next to nothing to throw one in the box. and if the system does cost between $350 and $400, it's perfectly possibly that Nintendo would pack the controllers in the box at cost and make up the difference at retail with $40 Wiimote 2.0's and $70 Café controllers




edit: Bman87301
can we avoid the walls of text please. It's easier to read with line breaks and parapraphs and whatnot.

CericJune 04, 2011

Personally, thinking from the Nintendo perspective, they were being stifled by their own innovation.  This happens more than you would think.  You have a good Idea with loads of potential but, when it goes to actually fulfilling the potential you find out that its really not as much as you thought.  Their is a reason why the controller paradigm hasn't really shifted.  I think the DS is probably the most successful shift we had.  Hence why you would want to replicate it.

Seriously, What was the Last Nintendo game where you said "I couldn't really imagine this without the Wiimote being good."

Wrote this real fast and didn't completely read the rest of the thread so if someone else brought this up Kuddos.

Outside of the two Wii Sports titles, and the upcoming Zelda: Skyward Sword, I can't think of another game from Nintendo that made good use of motion control.

JasonMaiviaJune 04, 2011

In my opinion, the best thing to come from the Wii Remote is the pointer.  The motion is great for some sports games, like baseball and Wiisports bowling, and a few puzzle games, like Boom Blox, but no one's actually done very much with the Wiimote's motion except having the user waggle waggle shake shake.

Tilting works fine with games like Kororinpa, but most other games that uses it, like for Driving games, fail.
I hope to God that the main controller that comes with Cafe is a traditional-styled controller and not a super gimmicky one that'll ,once again, alienate the console and its gamers from the world of popular multiplatform gaming.

Bman87301June 06, 2011

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

Now you could assume that Nintendo would have a Wiimote2.0 packed in the box, and they might, but it would also be kinda silly to assume that the big screened controller that will definitely be the center point of the console will not be the main controller... but I still hold out hope for a Wiimote/chuck 2.0 as an alternative and cheaper control method, especially for multi-player?

Why couldn't you get a Café controller with dock and a Wiimote 2.0 in the box? It sounds like a great idea to me. We all know that there has got to be a pretty hefty mark-up on Wiimotes after 200million of them have been sold, so it would probably cost Nintendo next to nothing to throw one in the box. and if the system does cost between $350 and $400, it's perfectly possibly that Nintendo would pack the controllers in the box at cost and make up the difference at retail with $40 Wiimote 2.0's and $70 Café controllers

If both controllers come standard with the system, then how can only one of them be considered the 'Café controller'? This is exactly the kind of thinking I'm talking about-- You're thinking inside the box. Who says 'there can only be one real controller'? The DS uses SNES-style buttons and a touch screen, does that make the buttons any less of a DS aspect? No, SNES-styled buttons worked in the past so they reused them alongside a new touch screen, both of which make up a DS. As gamers, we're used to being in a bubble cut off from the general public, but Nintendo popped that bubble with the Wii. As a result, we need to start learning to look at gaming reports without our 'geek goggles' still on.

Looking at Wii-styled controls through our 'geek goggles', they may appear to be something obsolete that Nintendo needs to replace since Wii failed to become the console of choice for gamers. The problem with that thinking is that gamers are just a niche portion of the market as a whole. Wii was the choice console to the mass market-- therefore motion controls were a success, not a failure. So, which is the most logical move on Nintendo's part? Replace the motion controls or add something new in addition to them?

Even though Wii might not have been the most played console among gamers, most gamers still owned one. Gamers and non-gamers alike both bought Wiis. The way I see it, it wasn't that gamers weren't willing to embrace the motion controls, it's just that 3rd party developers weren't because it took too much extra work to accommodate the special controls. As a result, all the good non-Nintendo-published gamer-centric games went to the consoles that used traditional controls, and the gamers simply followed the games. So my thinking is that Nintendo's solution to the problem will be to also include something in the box that can act as more traditional controller so developers have no more excuses. Especially if it also serves another more primary purpose...

What kind of games were most successful on the Wii? I think most would agree local multiplayer party games. Which makes sense when you consider that gathering multiple people for short play sessions is far more practical use for a big TV than a single person sitting in front of it to play an epic adventure for 20+ hours. As far as practicality goes, a long-single player game is best suited for a portable system... but most gamers prefer playing those games with the latest graphics technology which is only available in console form. But... if you had technology that could let you stream content to another device which could coincidentally function as its own controller as well, you'd be hitting two birds with one stone.

That's what I believe is the main purpose of the touchscreen controller really is. Since local multiplayer works best with Wii-type games on a single screen, why change it, let alone make each player pay $100 for a controller in order to join in? The touchscreen controller will have its own purposes, most of which will be for single player-- it makes the most sense.

You say it's kinda silly to assume what will definitely be the center point of the console won't be the main controller... That's assuming its intended purpose was to be a controller. I don't believe that to be the case. If its main intended function was for streaming and we just misinterpreted the leaked reports, then it's not silly at all. In fact, the idea that we'd be expected to have to likely pay $100 for each controller, is a lot sillier.

BlackNMild2k1June 06, 2011

Quote from: Bman87301

So my thinking is that Nintendo's solution to the problem will be to also include something in the box that can act as more traditional controller, so developers have no more excuses.

That would be the Café controller. you know the one with the traditional button layout and dual analogs + that screen in the middle.
an upgraded Wiimote 2.0 (which will hopefully be packed in if the Café controller doesn't already solve the problem of needing one) would be just that... an upgraded Wiimote.

But of course I have drawn out designs for the Wiimote/chuck 2.0 and a Café controller that can use it as an insert. But I honestly have no idea what Nintendo has planned and if that is the direction they would take. Luckily for us all shall be revealed in less than 21 hours and we can finally stop speculating about what they are doing and can move on to how they are gonna utilize it.

Bman87301June 06, 2011

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

That would be the Café controller. you know the one with the traditional button layout and dual analogs + that screen in the middle.
an upgraded Wiimote 2.0 (which will hopefully be packed in if the Café controller doesn't already solve the problem of needing one) would be just that... an upgraded Wiimote.

Again, you miss my point... They would  both be Café controllers. Calling only one the 'Café controller' and not the other would be a misnomer, especially considering motion/pointer controls would work well with both multiplayer and single player, while the other would only best for single-player, and streaming--meaning the motion controls would most likely be best described as the 'main' controller anyway. The point of the screen device will most likely be more so for streaming than for being what most would think of as 'the controller'.


P.S. You might want to read my previous post again... I accidentally posted part of it early by mistake, and you responded before I finished it.

I think you're nuts if you believe the controller everyone's talking about as the central concept for the console WILL NOT be the main controller, and that the main controller will be something that we haven't heard anything about and may not even exist.

Bman87301June 06, 2011

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

I think you're nuts if you believe the controller everyone's talking about as the central concept for the console WILL NOT be the main controller, and that the main controller will be something that we haven't heard anything about and may not even exist.

Who said we heard nothing about it? We've heard plenty of information that could be describing a motion-sensing controller... you just misinterpreted it as being part the touch screen device. Since all we've had to go on up to this point have been rumors and incomplete bits of information, that could easily be the case.

In fact, I think you're nuts to expect a standard controller that would have to have a $100 price tag-- especially if the aspect making it so costly in the first place is a SCREEN  that connects to a HOME CONSOLE, that will already be connected to a TELEVISION. Yeah, I'm the one who's nuts...

Chozo GhostJune 06, 2011

Nintendo isn't going to develop a brand new controller from scratch and then bundle it with the system just to slam it on the ground and spit on it and then continue to use the Wiimote instead.

BlackNMild2k1June 06, 2011

So you've correctly interpreted it as a separate controller?

Well, I'm glad we have that all cleared up. We've all had it wrong. The rumors have been talking about 2 (TWO) separate controllers this whole time... I guess we should ignore what the orignal source had said about what the tablet controller sorta resembled.

Really we have no idea what is right or what is wrong, but it is kinda crazy to think that the big new feature of the next console, which is rumored to be a controller with a screen in the middle won't be the main controller for the new system.
Instead it will be some system accessory that you set on the side and reference from time to time instead of looking at the television. That makes perfect sense.

But we will all find out tomorrow morning, so there really is no need to argue over who interpreted it correctly and who has it all wrong.

Chozo GhostJune 06, 2011

Tomorrow 2 people are going to be put in their place and corrected by Reggie and Iwata:

1) Bman for thinking the screen controller is just some stupid peripheral thing that Nintendo isn't going to support.

2) Kytime89 for calling the console "Super Wii" when that will almost certainly not be the name of it.

Tomorrow their day will come and the truth will set them free.

Bman87301June 06, 2011

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

So you've correctly interpreted it as a separate controller?

Well, I'm glad we have that all cleared up. We've all had it wrong. The rumors have been talking about 2 (TWO) separate controllers this whole time... I guess we should ignore what the orignal source had said about what the tablet controller sorta resembled.

Really we have no idea what is right or what is wrong, but it is kinda crazy to think that the big new feature of the next console, which is rumored to be a controller with a screen in the middle won't be the main controller for the new system.
Instead it will be some system accessory that you set on the side and reference from time to time instead of looking at the television. That makes perfect sense.

But we will all find out tomorrow morning, so there really is no need to argue over who interpreted it correctly and who has it all wrong.

LOL... You have toknow that's not what I'm saying.  I never said you'd be using them both at the same time! I've only re-clarified it how many times already? If you're still not getting it try re-reading it.

How is this so farfetched? In order to let you play away from the TV, wouldn't it need to have its own controls built-in? You certainly wouldn't be using a remote with a tiny 6" screen... It sounds to me like such a device would look EXACTLY like a controller with a screen in the middle. 

So we hear a description of a tablet that looks like a screen built into a controller, and the normal conclusion would be that it's the system's controller-- it's understandable. But Nintendo has been known for its non-traditional designs... and IF they were including a device to meant mainly for portable-play away from the TV like I'm describing, it WOULD fit the same physical description... and easily COULD be confused for system's controller if you didn't know better... especially if it could also be used as a controller itself anyway.

I think maybe you're getting irritated with me because my idea actually makes perfect sense, and you just don't like the fact the idea you've had building up in your head for the past month isn't going to happen after all...

BlackNMild2k1June 06, 2011

I will breakdown/apart your post later... Sony Conference just started.

I will give it a proper re-reading and try to figure out where the misunderstanding is.

BlackNMild2k1June 06, 2011

I only went back one page, and I answered these from the bottom up, but let me know if I missed something.

Quote from: Bman87301

I'm still quite confident that you're all kidding yourselves because you want to believe a local multi-player design could work, and not because you realistically think it will.

At this point, I expect this touch screen controller is going to be primarily, if not exclusively, for single player experiences (not counting online), and for giving you an option of playing away from the TV. It'll likely be an auxiliary controller, not the main controller-- which will most likely be another pointer-based controller (which works well for both single player experiences and multi-player parlor games anyway). This touch screen controller will appeal mainly to gamers. I don't see the casual crowd flocking to it, and I don't see Nintendo willing to lose them. Nintendo will be trying to lure in both. That's where this secondary controller comes in... It certainly won't be designed around multi-player.

So what happens if I want to play local multi and don't have the privilege of using the TV? SOL or Wiimotes on a 6" screen?
I think a second Café controller, that most certainly won't cost $100, would be a more reasonable solution.

I still think it's silly to think that the big new innovative features of this new system were built around using this streaming controller that you think will be relegated to secondary controller.... an auxiliary item.

Quote from: Bman87301

I still say you're kidding yourselves if you think this is going to be the standard controller used for multiplayer. Wii was by far the most profitable system this generation, so they're not going to abandon the Wii remote-styled wand controls.

No one said they would abandon the wiimotes, just not use them as the main controller for this next system.
There could be a new Wiimote 2.0, but then again, maybe this new controller actually addresses the need for a separate controller as it is everything we need.

I think you are kidding yourself if you think the lazy 3rd parties are gonna program single player for one kind of controller and then multiplayer (for the same game?) exclusively for a different kind of controller.
They are gonna program the game to work with the primary controller in all modes, but that doesn't mean that they can't program the game to work in all modes with a secondary controller too.

Unless they do pack 2 separate controllers in the box or pack a game in with that secondary controller, no dev is gonna assume that any gamer has that controller available and will not pledge exclusive support to the non-standard controller.

Quote from: Bman87301

Who says this touch screen thing is going to be the only input device included in the box? How do you know it's not going to come bundled with a new type of remote as well as this touch screen device? You don't.

Need I remind you that the touch-screen and dual analog controls weren't the only details that initially leaked about this system. Pretty consistent reports suggesting Wii-style motion controls were out there too that would use a new tracking system?

Actually the rumors suggested that it would motion tracking better than move. nothing was said about wii-style motion controls and a new tracking system.

The only thing said about Wii was that Café would be fully backwards compatible with Wii & GC.

Quote:

This info largely seems to have gotten glossed over by the gaming press who've instead been focusing on the touch screen idea,



That's because you have your rumors mixed up

Quote:

but it was still out there and shouldn't be ignored. Since it seems unlikely that both a 6" touch screen and a Wii-styled motion pointer (which pointer tracking pretty much guarantees) could be part of the same device, it's fairly reasonable to guess that there's more than one controller with this system.

Your argument has already fallen apart. But I do agree that there could be more than one controller in the box... if the Café controller doesn't already satisfy the need for a separate controller.

Quote from: Bman87301


If both controllers come standard with the system, then how can only one of them be considered the 'Café controller'? This is exactly the kind of thinking I'm talking about-- You're thinking inside the box. Who says 'there can only be one real controller'? The DS uses SNES-style buttons and a touch screen, does that make the buttons any less of a DS aspect? No, SNES-styled buttons worked in the past so they reused them alongside a new touch screen, both of which make up a DS.


One controller is designed specifically for Café therefore making it the Café controller. The other would be what I will assume to be an upgraded Wiimote designed to improve motion sensing beyond wiimote+.... therefore would be known as a Wiimote2.0 not a Café controller.

Quote:

You say it's kinda silly to assume what will definitely be the center point of the console won't be the main controller... That's assuming its intended purpose was to be a controller. I don't believe that to be the case. If its main intended function was for streaming and we just misinterpreted the leaked reports, then it's not silly at all. In fact, the idea that we'd be expected to have to likely pay $100 for each controller, is a lot sillier.

It was rumored to have a 6" touch screen and all the standard buttons and controls we would expect from a regular controller. Also has a camera and we assume ties into the better motion sensing that Move. How? we aren't sure yet, but there has been no indication of a second controller (wiimote or otherwise) in the box.

All rumors have pointed to one controller. The one with the touch screen. the one with all the buttons and dual analogs. the one with the camera and the one we assume to also have motion tech like gyros and accelerometer.

famicomplicatedJames Charlton, Associate Editor (Japan)June 07, 2011

Hey guys, I hope you've put your money where your mouth is and placed your bets on the next controller features here:
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/blog/26516



Last few hours before the Megatons hit and your entry would be disqualified!  :D

StogiJune 07, 2011

Most definitely. I also bought more stock last month when it was dirt cheap (and I egged you all to do the same).

CericJune 07, 2011

Quote from: The

Most definitely. I also bought more stock last month when it was dirt cheap (and I egged you all to do the same).

I was going to but I couldn't find where to with the little money I could sneak away from the Misses.

BlackNMild2k1June 07, 2011

Quote from: Ceric

Quote from: The

Most definitely. I also bought more stock last month when it was dirt cheap (and I egged you all to do the same).

I was going to but I couldn't find where to

same here

Bman87301June 07, 2011

Well, it looks like we were all a little bit right... I knew the Wii Remote wouldn't be ditched especially for multiplayer.

BlackNMild2k1June 07, 2011

No one said it was gonna be ditched.

We all knew the Wiiu was gonna be fully backwards compatible with all of Wii's hardware just like the rumors said.


I think it's pretty safe to say that you were just wrong. No way to wiggle out of it now.

Bman87301June 07, 2011

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

No one said it was gonna be ditched.

We all knew the Wiiu was gonna be fully backwards compatible with all of Wii's hardware just like the rumors said.


I think it's pretty safe to say that you were just wrong. No way to wiggle out of it now.

Um, I was trying to take the high road by trying to let you take some credit rather than gloating... But if you this how you're going to be, then  fine, have it your way...

The fact of the matter is that I was at least 80% right. This whole debate was based on multiplayer design, which I stated would stay mostly motion control based, which it apparently looks as if that is going to be the case. I kept saying only we'd be seeing game designs around a SINGLE tablet-- and low and behold, not a single video clip showed multiple tablets together. I kept saying your ideas weren't likely to work because were mostly based around each players having the multiple screens. Was I proven wrong at all there? I'll be first to admit I still haven't been proven entirely right but this just yet... but seems most likely to assume my assertion was correct for the most part.

I also managed to predict pretty much every feature about the tablet minus the camera... So, how exactly was I so wrong again?

I was wrong about the new remote... One thing out of over a dozen other things I got dead on. How about giving credit when credit is due, rather than being a sore loser?

I gotta say, I'm kinda embarrassed for you that you'd sink this low...

AdrockJune 07, 2011

There's a new remote? I thought they were just using Wii Remotes (possibly Wii Remote Plus).

Bman87301June 07, 2011

Quote from: Adrock

There's a new remote? I thought they were just using Wii Remotes (possibly Wii Remote Plus).

No, there's no new remote. Prior to the unveiling I speculated that there might be. But I got that part wrong.

BlackNMild2k1June 07, 2011

Like I said I went back 1 page.

You said the new controller would be a secondary auxiliary controller and that it was silly of us to assume the new controller wouldn't be the focus of the system and the controller that all games are designed around. wrong.

You said there would be a new controller in the box that would replace the Wiimote (not in so many words) and would be the main controller, especially for multiplayer.
Partially wrong.... we don't know anything about multi screen controller gameplay yet. so I can't give you a partially right... yet.

You said we would be kidding ourselves if this controller was used for multiplayer at all.
Well considering every game they showed multiplayer or otherwise used the new controller... I think that makes you wrong

So if you were right about some stuff before the last page, then I apologize, but from everything I quoted, it looks like you were pretty off the mark on most of it. And I'm not trying to be rude or gloat or anything, but I just didn't see how you can claim some credit for being right when I didn't see you get anything absolutely correct.

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