Was software support actually worse in the past with the N64 and GC?
Continued from "The Wii U and Objectivity"
Jonathan Metts
[In response to an earlier argument Carmine made claiming the N64 was in a worse software position compared to the Wii U]
I hope your comparison to N64 is a joke. That system launched with Super Mario 64 and had Wave Race 64, Pilotwings 64, and Mario Kart 64 by this point, with Goldeneye 007 and Star Fox 64 coming in the first summer. That lineup dumps diarrhea over what we currently have on Wii U.
Carmine Red
Yeah. Then it died for years on end. AND had even less third-party/second party support then what we see now.
Neal Ronaghan
Jonny just won the thread. Everyone can go home now. ;)
Let's not even compare this to the GameCube launch. Guess what? Eternal Darkness would be out next month in GameCube time.
Carmine Red
@Neal
I'm not comparing it to the N64 and GC launches, I'm comparing them to the GC and N64 market potentials.
And if we want to talk launch windows, the Wii U is BETTER than both the GC and N64.
You want to talk drought. Not launches.
Jonathan Metts
N64 had infrastructural problems and even worse third-party support in many ways, but the first/second party support was far superior to what we are seeing on Wii U, and the EA news has me quite pessimistic about the future third-party support.
That is by far my biggest concern for Wii U: we have come to expect minimal third-party games, but Nintendo isn't even delivering on first-party so far, and that's exactly why you see the "nothing worth playing" sentiment.
Jon Lindemann
I feel like the games Nintendo supposedly has coming this Fall are the ones they should have actually had at or near launch. Which is exactly why I won't buy a Wii U until this Fall at the earliest... maybe.
Neal Ronaghan
Fair point, but I'd argue for the longevity and overall quality of some of those GC/N64 games. Smash Bros. Melee was a GOTF. Super Mario 64 is one of the most important games of all time. GoldenEye brought FPS multiplayer to consoles.
There's a degree of "you can't really reinvent the wheel" in play, but the Wii U launch window might have had more games, but I think a more accurate breakdown would reveal some people's favorite games ever launching early on N64 and GCN. I don't think NSMBU and Nintendo Land cut the mustard.
Andy Goergen
I find it curious how so many people talk about how Wii U doesn't have enough games, but seemingly very few people have played ZombiU, a platform exclusive third party game which garnered multiple very positive reviews.
Dave Mellert
This is a good point. I guess for me, though, a zombie FP shooter (beater?) isn't that compelling.
Carmine Red
See, this is another side of the objectivity argument. Are we punishing Nintendo unfairly for using successful franchises? Is it fair to expect a Mario 64 every five years given that these people are only human? And at what point does nostalgia creep in and make us declare that Mario Kart 64 was really that wonderful? (Okay, Battlemode in that game was <3, and had some deliciously cheap things you could do.)
But anyways, you're right Jon, Jonny. The Wii U has problems, this lineup has problems, and Nintendo really needs to take a good hard look at whether they are capable of developing the games they want to make, the way they want to make them, this generation.
But the problem isn't that we have nothing to play this fall. The problem isn't that they're not trying. The problem isn't that Nintendo asked us to buy company stock, we did so, and then Iwata bolted. The problem isn't that the GoldenState Warriors lost in game friggin' SIX.
Dave Mellert
I probably played 500+ hours of Goldeneye in college and that is not an exaggeration.
I think I've played 3 hours of Nintendoland.
Carmine Red
Screw GoldenEye. Perfect Dark was where it's at. But after all these years, I still fail to see what's so great about Pilot Wings 64. I played it at a (pre-launch?) booth at the PNE amusement park in Vancouver, B.C. Canada. Couldn't get off the frickin' ground. Pick-up-and-play my GreatMightyPooSong.
Dave Mellert
Perfect Dark was better if you like to take time to think about your next move in between frames.
Guillaume Veillette
I think the biggest reason why people view the N64 line-up at this point in its life as vastly superior is because of their life situation back then versus now.
I find it hard to believe someone would prop up Wave Race 64 against Sonic Racing or Most Wanted or whatever and say "Wave Race is the game that offers the most hours or quality entertainment" unless they had nothing to play back then for months but Wave Race. And given how many N64 owners didn't own a Playstation until later, that was probably the case.
J.P. Corbran
I would agree that the idea that the N64 list Jonny offered is so much better is heavily aided by nostalgia. Outside of Mario 64 I think the Wii U so far can go toe to toe with anything on that list.
Continued in "Is the Nintendo Direct Format to Blame? Also: New IPs"