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WiiU

Wii U Has 8 GB of Internal Storage

by Danny Bivens - June 7, 2012, 8:52 am EDT
Total comments: 206 Source: Time, http://techland.time.com/2012/06/07/why-the-wii-u-...

Make sure to have a spare USB hard drive handy. 

The Wii U will feature 8 gigabytes of flash storage, Time reports.

Although the included internal memory is somewhat limited, Nintendo does give gamers the option of expanding the memory via SD cards or by utilizing one of the USB ports on the Wii U to connect an external hard drive. No details were given as to whether this would be limited in any way. Microsoft, for example, also supports the option for USB based storage but limits the devices to only 16 GB. 

Talkback

ThanerosJune 07, 2012

Better than nothing and more than enough space to hold all my transfered Wiiware and VC games.

DarthBradyJune 07, 2012

Well I find this disappointing. You'd think with all the work they spent fixing it after last year's E3 such as the Controllers, dual touch screen pad support, etc, that theiy would have taken a clue from succesful consoles released over a DECADE ago and added Native/Internal HDD support out of the box.


Just when I was getting excited, now I'm not as much. Good luck trying to win over existing Xbox and PS3 owners now Nintendo.


EPIC FAIL.

SorenJune 07, 2012

Well...not even 20gigs. I guess it's fine but it's hard to keep getting angry at Nintendo for every little thing that keeps popping up this week.


At least we won't have to deal with proprietary hard drives of costly transfer cables you only use once. I buy one hard drive for it and I'm set for the console's life.

broodwarsJune 07, 2012

Well, now we know how cheap Nintendo plans on being with the Wii U.  My Wii's SD card holds 8 GB of storage, and that cost me $20 3 or so years ago.  That is pathetic on Nintendo's part, and it makes me wonder how pathetically low their file size cap will be on Wii U.  This just reminds me of that scene in the original Austin Powers when Doctor Evil threatened the leaders of the modern world with a $1 million ransom, and everyone just starts laughing.  With downloadable games only growing larger, Nintendo had better be extremely flexible with their file size cap, or they will be just as ignored by (GOOD) digital developers as they were on the Wii.

Now, looking at it from another angle that is a whopping double the amount of storage as the 4 GB Arcade-model Xbox 360, and I have a feeling that's how Nintendo's looking at it.  Of course, Nintendo's not competing with the 360 or PS3 with the Wii U, but their successors and I'll be very surprised if either future console has less than 20-50 GB of storage by default.

VahneJune 07, 2012

Quote from: DarthBrady

Well I find this disappointing. You'd think with all the work they spent fixing it after last year's E3 such as the Controllers, dual touch screen pad support, etc, that theiy would have taken a clue from succesful consoles released over a DECADE ago and added Native/Internal HDD support out of the box.


Just when I was getting excited, now I'm not as much. Good luck trying to win over existing Xbox and PS3 owners now Nintendo.


EPIC FAIL.

7 years is not a decade. 10 years is a decade. Over a decade means over 10 years. Learn English. You realize that Nintendo markets to different audiences. One audience wouldn't really care for that a lot of memory on a game system, remember the 4GB 360 model? If you care so much about storage, just buy a harddrive yourself instead of asking Nintendo to overprice the Wii U because you wanted them to add an HDD.

AdrockJune 07, 2012

I wasn't sure if this was confirmed when I read that Time article his morning.

8GB is pretty low. I wonder why Nintendo is so resistant to include a hard drive or even a bay if a user chooses to upgrade. How much would a 128GB HDD cost them to include?

Quote from: Vahne

7 years is not a decade. 10 years is a decade. Over a decade means over 10 years. Learn English.

I think he's talking about the original Xbox which came out in 2001.

VahneJune 07, 2012

Quote from: broodwars

Well, now we know how cheap Nintendo plans on being with the Wii U.  My Wii's SD card holds 8 GB of storage, and that cost me $20 3 or so years ago.  That is pathetic on Nintendo's part, and it makes me wonder how pathetically low their file size cap will be on Wii U.  This just reminds me of that scene in the original Austin Powers when Doctor Evil threatened the leaders of the modern world with a $1 million ransom, and everyone just starts laughing.  With downloadable games only growing larger, Nintendo had better be extremely flexible with their file size cap, or they will be just as ignored by (GOOD) digital developers as they were on the Wii.

Now, looking at it from another angle that is a whopping double the amount of storage as the 4 GB Arcade-model Xbox 360, and I have a feeling that's how Nintendo's looking at it.  Of course, Nintendo's not competing with the 360 or PS3 with the Wii U, but their successors and I'll be very surprised if either future console has less than 20-50 GB of storage by default.

3 years ago. Things are different now. I bought a 32 GB SD card for $30 for my 3DS. Now, even with low included memory, do you honestly think Nintendo would continue putting a low limit on downloadable titles? Look at the 3DS, do any of those games look like they put a size limit on them? Heck, Nintendo is going to put retail 3DS and Wii U games up for download. Do you still think there's a file size limit? Nintendo has done stupid things in the past, but don't be ignorant to what they are doing now. 8 GB will be fine for some people and should hold several games, especially since many games don't max out their storage medium at all. For those who want more memory for more stuff, there's expandable storage.

VahneJune 07, 2012

Quote from: Adrock

I wasn't sure if this was confirmed when I read that Time article his morning.

8GB is pretty low. I wonder why Nintendo is so resistant to include a hard drive or even a bay if a user chooses to upgrade. How much would a 128GB HDD cost them to include?

Quote from: Vahne

7 years is not a decade. 10 years is a decade. Over a decade means over 10 years. Learn English.

I think he's talking about the original Xbox which came out in 2001.

Hmm, oh that. For some reason I tend to forget that the Xbox had any internal storage. I do apologize to him if that's what he meant, however I still meant the rest of what I said.

CericJune 07, 2012

Quote from: Adrock

I wasn't sure if this was confirmed when I read that Time article his morning.

8GB is pretty low. I wonder why Nintendo is so resistant to include a hard drive or even a bay if a user chooses to upgrade. How much would a 128GB HDD cost them to include?

Console Size, Licensing cost, Power Requirements, and Customer Service obligations.  I'll bet those 8gb of Flash are put directly onto the motherboard.  That way they wouldn't have to pay the licensing fee for Sata (Which has to be tiny per unit, but that is besides the point) or have that particular controller chip.  Can know the max draw of every component and put in the optimally priced power supply that is able to keep up with that.  It just simplify design.  We still haven't heard it will play back DVD or Blu-Ray and thats Licensing cost again.

C-OlimarJune 07, 2012

I don't get what the huge problem is. Most casual gamers (Nintendo's main audience for this console) will never fill up their Wii U's memory, while the rest of us can expand the memory through external hardrives, USBs and SD Cards.

broodwarsJune 07, 2012

Quote from: Vahne

3 years ago. Things are different now. I bought a 32 GB SD card for $30 for my 3DS.

I'm sorry, but was that supposed to be disagreeing with me?  :confused;

Quote:

Now, even with low included memory, do you honestly think Nintendo would continue putting a low limit on downloadable titles?

Yes, I do.  All the platform-holders have file size caps of some sort.  They just tend to be so high that we never hear developers complain about it.

Doing the math, actually, Nintendo infamously had a 40 MB cap on downloads for (according to Wikipedia) the Wii's 512 MB of flash memory.  That's 7.8% of the total space.  If Nintendo follows this trend, I estimate their cap would be somewhere around 625 MB on the Wii U.

Quote:

Nintendo has done stupid things in the past

And judging by this week, they're prepared to do plenty of stupid things now.  Yeah yeah...I know.  Cheap shot.  But this just seems like the same Nintendo we had with the Wii years.  They put on the pretense of change, but then make the same mistakes.

Quote:

8 GB will be fine for some people and should hold several games, especially since many games don't max out their storage medium at all.

OK, let's put this in context a bit.  The average size of the downloadable games I buy these days on my PS3 is roughly around 1.2 GB in size.  Yesterday, I downloaded my PS+ freebie "Ratchet & Clank: All 4 One" PS3 retail title, and it was 14 GB in size.  The average size of my PS3 downloadable retail titles is about 4-6 GB.  And most on-disc titles on my PS3 take up at least a couple of Gigs of space when they install, though considering installing is optional on the 360 it will probably be here as well.

So no, you won't be downloading retail titles with this incredibly low amount of storage.

ThePermJune 07, 2012

i dont see a reason to put a file size limit, i think it will be if your out of space "fuck you, you have options"

the wii didnt have an unlimited option, so a file size limit was mandated. I've had a TB hard-drive for 3.5 years and it only cost me 100 dollars when i bought it. sd cards are getting pretty big too.

Not everyone is going to use up the hd, its better to give people the option to get their own hd rather than make the system more expensive.

AdrockJune 07, 2012

Quote from: Ceric

Console Size, Licensing cost, Power Requirements, and Customer Service obligations.  I'll bet those 8gb of Flash are put directly onto the motherboard.  That way they wouldn't have to pay the licensing fee for Sata (Which has to be tiny per unit, but that is besides the point) or have that particular controller chip.  Can know the max draw of every component and put in the optimally priced power supply that is able to keep up with that.  It just simplify design.  We still haven't heard it will play back DVD or Blu-Ray and thats Licensing cost again.

I said "I wonder why..." rhetorically. I know why based on how they've typically have done business. I just don't think they're very good reasons.

Also, Nintendo said Wii U wouldn't play DVDs or Blu Ray last year.

Quote from: C-Olimar

I don't get what the huge problem is. Most casual gamers (Nintendo's main audience for this console) will never fill up their Wii U's memory, while the rest of us can expand the memory through external hardrives, USBs and SD Cards.

Not a huge problem. It just suggests that Nintendo isn't taking core gaming as seriously as they should. The hard drive is optional. That sends a big message to 3rd parties who make a ton of profits off of DLC. Sure, casual gamers won't fill that space. They also wouldn't care/know it was there. So, it doesn't hurt them but it potentially hurts others, namely 3rd parties. Nintendo is unnecessarily intentionally handicapping their own hardware again. It won't kill them, but it's another one of those it's-better-to-have-than-not-have scenarios.

I'll probably never need larger storage. I'm just explaining the line of thinking as I understand it.

broodwarsJune 07, 2012

Quote from: ThePerm

i dont see a reason to put a file size limit, i think it will be if your out of space "**** you, you have options"

That would be fine, but we had the option (eventually) to expand our storage with SD cards on the Wii, and Nintendo never removed or raised that 40 MB limit (despite the "casuals" not being the ones who downloaded Virtual Console/WiiWare titles).  We can argue about the size of the cap, but I guarantee you that there will be one just like there is on the other HD consoles.

ThePermJune 07, 2012

but the wii u is different than the wii. Out of the gate it has the unlimited size option. Theres no difference between a console with 1tb built in and a console with 8gb built in and an external hard drive of undefined space

ejamerJune 07, 2012

Not sure if this is good or bad news.


I don't want a download-only or DLC-dominated future, I don't want tons of mandatory installs and patches to get software working that should run out of the box, I don't want my console to be a PC-lite experience.  So not having a huge hard drive isn't really that bad in a lot of ways.


Except, of course, for the fact that developers want a consistent set of features they can count on for cross-platform development.  Wii U having such limited internal storage will affect gamers when developers choose to ignore the system for major releases that use large chunks of disc space in other consoles.

CericJune 07, 2012

The 360 developer eventually started to go "You don't have a Hard Drive go home"  Nintendo storage Strategy is the 360 Storage strategy minus the Brand Specific Drive requirement.  Unfortunately we all know that its going to be the PS3 strategy next generation.

Chocobo_RiderJune 07, 2012

Quote from: ejamer

I don't want a download-only or DLC-dominated future, I don't want tons of mandatory installs and patches to get software working that should run out of the box, I don't want my console to be a PC-lite experience.  So not having a huge hard drive isn't really that bad in a lot of ways.

+100

If you want more space for other stuff you just plug in a harddrive.  It's better than capping file sizes or making you buy over-priced proprietary storage (*cough*vita*cough*).

ThePermJune 07, 2012

propriety storage needs to be going the way of the dodo. Which is why i think its GOOD that nintendo gives you the option to get your own storage rather than requiring you to by storage with the console.

NeoThunderJune 07, 2012

along with USB thumbdrives, i'm hoping they'll support actually USB hard drives.  I have a 40 gig one i'm not using that would work.  You can get a good size one at the store for around $50 - $60

I'm not sure that Nintendo will have a filesize limit since they've said that they'll be launching a lot/most/all of their first party games going forward on through both retail AND digital distribution.

KDR_11kJune 07, 2012

Gimped storage seems to be the trend and hey, Apple is making a killing with it.

ToraJune 07, 2012

Better than the 512 MBs the Wii had.

abeJune 07, 2012

Nintendo should trademark dissapointment

Ian SaneJune 07, 2012

Thinking about it Nintendo is the worst of the big 3 to start a generation.  To do that you have to guess where things are going to go.  You know how the Wii's online setup was archaic and embarassing?  That's what being a generation behind the competition can do.  Nintendo was learning the online stuff Sony and MS already learned years before.

It's same thing with the Wii.  They intentionally stayed a generation behind the rest of the industry.  How can they then expect to properly guess what hardware they need to compete with the next gen if they've NEVER made games with HD visuals and have never had to think about commercial HD titles being downloadable?  Suddenly they're going to go from being luddites to correctly guessing the right technology to go with?  No.  They would actually be better off going last to get a lay of the land and play catch up.

But they CAN'T do that.  Sony and MS are holding back because they don't need to release a new system yet.  Nintendo put themselves in a situation where they had to move to the next gen sooner than everyone else because the Wii was on borrowed time at launch.  It would be hard for a very tech savy company to pull this off and this is the company that was behind on CDs, online gaming and HDTVs.  It was always going to be a miracle for them to pull this off.

This storage is too small to work well with downloadable retail titles.  Supporting is a fantastic move but downloadable retail is going to be an expected feature this gen and if the standard size can only support like 5 games, that's a problem.  It's just too conservative.  It suggests a company that is very stingy with money or is rather clueless about current technology.  Hey didn't I just describe Nintendo?

Chozo GhostJune 07, 2012

To be fair, 8GB is double what the low end 360 gives you. That said, anything less than 160gb is inadequate for a modern HD system, and anything less than 20GB is an outright joke. What can you do with 8GB? You're lucky if you can install just one full sized retail game with that much space.

smallsharkbigbiteJune 07, 2012

"Gimped storage seems to be the trend and hey, Apple is making a killing with it."

Yeah, but they are mainly selling $.99 games or giving the game away free.  Not too hard to delete a game I have nothing in.  Also, they aren't selling a 1080p capable system. 

"I don't want a download-only or DLC-dominated future, I don't want tons of mandatory installs and patches to get software working that should run out of the box, I don't want my console to be a PC-lite experience.  So not having a huge hard drive isn't really that bad in a lot of ways."

It'd be nice if all games came complete, but Nintendo is one of the best at testing a game for bugs.  And Mario Kart 3ds proved even they can benefit from having patching ability.  Patches aren't bad, games could spend years in testing if it wasn't for patching ability and still they couldn't catch everything.  It's really only bad if a company like Ubisoft releases a game without testing just to patch it later.  But Ubi, they are supporting the Wii-U nicely. 

While not all DLC is great, it's not all bad either.  Today it's a viable business model to release DLC game for $15.  I have a PS3 and many download games are are 2-4 gigs, and some are much much more.  From a developer standpoint, if you wanted to release a download only game for $15 and it was going to be 4 gig, are you even going to think about releasing it for the Wii-U?  You know most people only have 6 gig available (after operating system and game saves).  That's of course assuming Nintendo doesn't cap it at 1 gig or something relatively ridiculous. 

From the consumer point it's bad too.  SD cards are available up to 64 gig I believe for about $50, or a USB drive for $70.  Add in a second controller at the rumored $100 and the system at the rumored $400 and you are getting dangerously close to the PS3 launch point in a recession no less.  So you can ramble on about non-proprietary storage, but at $400 I expect to not have to buy storage.  Of course maybe consumers aren't that smart.  No one seems to mind that a $300 xbox + $300 for 5 years of live comes to $600. 

Lastly, I still don't get what the Wii-U is trying to accomplish.  They are saying they are coming for the hardcore, but their big game was Nintendoland?  I'm sure all the Sony/Microsoft fanboys are lining up for that.  And while 3rd party support appears decent, I get the deja-vu feeling from the Gamecube days.  Line up a bunch of ports for the Wii-U and then when they don't sell as well as the large user-based Sony/Xbox systems, say there is no market in the Wii-U for these kind of games and move from Nintendo.  Plus of course, 8 gig storage isn't exactly screaming hardcore or that they will have a comprehensive online plan.  70% of 3ds are online?  8 gig isn't going to be enough for 70% of Wii-U owners if they have the same trend. 

Kytim89June 07, 2012

If the cost of flash drives continues to fall then 8GBs of internal storage does not bother me at all.

ShyGuyJune 07, 2012

I was hoping Ian's reaction would be more in the form of a delicious rant. I leave disappointed.

hibern81June 07, 2012

Like someone posted above, I would rather keep the core system cheap and use the terabyte that I still have available on my current hard drive.  I know not everybody is in this same position, but 8 gigs is enough to get started with.  At least they are not pulling a Vita!

nickmitchJune 07, 2012

I don't understand people's disappointment. Were you all really expecting massive internal storage space? I thought we knew that we weren't even getting  an internal hard drive. I'm actually glad there's 8GBs because that's more than I was expecting. I was already planning to buy a hard drive for the damn thing, as I know many were (unless they already had one lying around).

Mop it upJune 07, 2012

8GB is what I expected. It's actually what I thought I heard last year, but perhaps not.

As for the download game cap, Nintendo have already expressed plans to sell retail Wii U games as downloads, and I would imagine those are going to take up a lot of space. The cap is going to be enough to allow retail games, though it may be something like 8GB so that every game could fit in the provided storage.

ChariblazeJune 07, 2012

Glad they're sticking to having a minimum of moving parts.

Chozo GhostJune 07, 2012

Quote from: nickmitch

I don't understand people's disappointment.

I don't either. Considering everything else we have concerning the Wii U to be disappointed in, the lack of storage is really trivial. Most people say its the games that matter most about a system, so let's focus on that instead. Where's the games? Forget the storage... if there isn't any games you don't need to worry about that anyway.

A year ago the Wii U seemed full of promise and there was talk of things like Battlefield 3, GTA, and so on. Where is all that? This is the REAL reason people should be disappointed. Once again Nintendo is getting the same shitty 3rd party support it has for the last 15 years.

Storage? That's pretty trivial in comparison.

AdrockJune 08, 2012

Think of this storage issue as a domino and all the other issues are also dominos. I think you know where I'm going with this.

To consumers, it's easy to say they can buy whatever hard drive they want. It's true, but they still have to go out and buy one, even if they can get it in the same store as the console itself. To 3rd parties, they have to ask themselves and Nintendo why Nintendo is making it that much harder for them to sell things. In one way it may be trivial; in another, it's really definitely not.

I'm only pro-hard drive or at least pro-separate hard drive included SKU because the advantages outweigh the disadvantages which is really just a slightly increased cost to Nintendo. A greater upfront cost is worth it for what they stand to gain.

Still, I'm personally probably never going to need more than the 8GB because I'm not downloading anything but patches and firmware updates.

broodwarsJune 08, 2012

Quote from: Adrock

Still, I'm personally probably never going to need more than the 8GB because I'm not downloading anything but patches and firmware updates.

You're really going to be missing-out, then, unless you're using a second HD console for your downloadable games.  Nintendo already announced Trine 2 for Wii U, and if you never played Trine 1 its sequel is a pretty great game.  I imagine that quite a few other great downloadable games from the HD consoles will make their way over eventually as well.  This is not a good generation to sit out on the downloadable market.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 08, 2012

Dear Nintendo: Curse you for not including more storage with your system!  You should pack in an oversized hard drive that the vast majority of your userbase won't ever use and then charge extra for the privilege.  I mean, I know I already have plenty of storage space I can use with my Wii U at home, but since I *need* more storage space (even though all I've done is complain about the lack of games and how I probably won't even get a Wii U anyway), it should be included.

Likewise, curse you for not including a television.  Yeah, I already have one.  Five, in fact.  But I *NEED* a television to play a Wii U, right?  So why the heck aren't you packing one in the box and charging me extra for it?

Stupid Nintendo, why can't you get anything right?  That's it, I'm boycotting Nintendo.

smallsharkbigbiteJune 08, 2012

"Storage? That's pretty trivial in comparison."

The games are certainly underwhelming, but to me storage leads back to a shortage of games.  Excuse me if I missed confirmation, what I've read in the past is although the Wii-U won't play Blu-Ray it will use the Blu-Ray format for games.  Thus, a retail game has the possibility to have 50 gig (dual layers blu-ray) of info.  It's a joke that Nintendo is planning to release retail games and it's very likely you won't be able to fit a single retail game on the Wii-U.  More third parties are moving to DL only games to price thier games more competitively in an ipad world, why would they release them for the Wii-U?  PS3 DL games routinely run 4-6 gig and that's for non-retail release.  Unless people buy external support and start buying DL content like hotcakes, 3rd party DLC support won't come to the Wii-U.

SundoulosJune 08, 2012

Count me in the I don't care camp.  The 8GB drive doesn't particularly bother me, either...as long as the Wii U is a reasonable price and their aren't any proprietary hardware restrictions on the external drives that can be used. I already have SD cards and external hard drives collecting dust that I could use.  If it also keeps the size of the base unit down, I'm all for it.

smallsharkbigbiteJune 08, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

Dear Nintendo: Curse you for not including more storage with your system!  You should pack in an oversized hard drive that the vast majority of your userbase won't ever use and then charge extra for the privilege.  I mean, I know I already have plenty of storage space I can use with my Wii U at home, but since I *need* more storage space (even though all I've done is complain about the lack of games and how I probably won't even get a Wii U anyway), it should be included.

And why make me pay for a tablet, I'm only going to be using the pro-controller.  And why make us pay for composite cables, does anyone use those anymore?  And why paint the console, I'm going to stick it behind my PS3 so I don't care what it looks like.  I mean why include things with the console that actually help me use the console?

Seriously though, did you read this article?  http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/30584

Apparently, that internet thing isn't going away.  70+% of people are online.  The average person online purchased 5 things and the 3ds hasn't been out that long.  This generation there are a bunch of download only games and I can only imagine next gen there will be more.  It's also really cheap for Nintendo to add, actually probably wouldn't have cost them much more to just stick a 120 gig hard drive in there instead of flash memory.  It's also the standard since xbox 1, so it makes Nintendo look silly.  But hey, I bet you didn't buy a car or house that had features that you don't use.   

smallsharkbigbiteJune 08, 2012

Quote from: Sundoulos

Count me in the I don't care camp.  The 8GB drive doesn't particularly bother me, either...as long as the Wii U is a reasonable price and their aren't any proprietary hardware restrictions on the external drives that can be used. I already have SD cards and external hard drives collecting dust that I could use.  If it also keeps the size of the base unit down, I'm all for it.

Seriuosly, how do you people just have this stuff laying around?  I have two USB external drives.  But I paid about $100 each for them, and I'm *gasp* actually using them or I wouldn't have bought them in the first place.  Thus they will not be earmarked for the Wii U.  And I have a few SD cards, but nothing bigger than 8 gig.  With my PS3 having an 80 gig hd, I know adding another 8 gig will be woefully inadequate. 

Chozo GhostJune 08, 2012

Quote from: Adrock

Still, I'm personally probably never going to need more than the 8GB because I'm not downloading anything but patches and firmware updates.

That still might not be enough, because I know from experience on the PS3 that patches can frequently be hundreds of megabytes in size, or even gigabytes in size. The worst example I can recall from memory was the patch for Battlefield Bad Company 2 which was like 2 gigabytes or something like that. The reason the patch was so huge is because EA bundles their DLC in with it, so even if you have zero interest in buying that DLC you still have to download it anyway just to be compatible with the other players who might have it.

Do you see what I'm saying? When you start dealing with patches that are hundreds of megs or 1 or 2 gigabytes then that 8gb is going to be eroded real fast, because even if you don't buy DLC its going to be required for you to download it anyway for compatibility reasons.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 08, 2012

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

Apparently, that internet thing isn't going away.  70+% of people are online.  The average person online purchased 5 things and the 3ds hasn't been out that long.

Filled the packed-in 3DS memory card. Bought a 32 GB SD card for cheap (although not as cheap as I would have liked).  Worked fine for me.  If I deleted demos and old videos, I'd probably be set with the 2 GB card... but I'm a menu whore.

Three friends have 3DS systems.  Still have the pack-in 2 GB memory card and aren't close to the limit.

Is it right to make all four of us pay for 32 GB cards when only one of us used it?  Does it make a lick of business sense to price your item higher and limit those who you can sell it to based on a feature that few will use and those that do will be able to easily and optionally take care of on their own?

SundoulosJune 08, 2012

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

Quote from: Sundoulos

Count me in the I don't care camp.  The 8GB drive doesn't particularly bother me, either...as long as the Wii U is a reasonable price and their aren't any proprietary hardware restrictions on the external drives that can be used. I already have SD cards and external hard drives collecting dust that I could use.  If it also keeps the size of the base unit down, I'm all for it.

Seriuosly, how do you people just have this stuff laying around?  I have two USB external drives.  But I paid about $100 each for them, and I'm *gasp* actually using them or I wouldn't have bought them in the first place.  Thus they will not be earmarked for the Wii U.  And I have a few SD cards, but nothing bigger than 8 gig.  With my PS3 having an 80 gig hd, I know adding another 8 gig will be woefully inadequate. 

For starters, it probably has a lot to do with the fact that I've never paid anywhere close to $100 for an external hard drive...

EnnerJune 08, 2012

Wish there was a SATA slot, but I guessed that would cost extra. I assume that the Wii U will be able to power USB-powered external hard disk drive given the USB ports on the Wii are able to charge a bunch of stuff.

To address a point that's come up in here, the 3DS shipped with 2 GB of storage and retail games that come close to filling that all on their own are coming soon to the eShop. I wouldn't worry about the file size limit. I've got a spare USB hard drive from when I upgraded my MacBook's internal drive that I was going to use as a USB game loader for the Homebrew Channel, but now I'll probably wait and use it with the Wii U. Cloudberry Kingdom/Trine/Runner 2 FTW!

SundoulosJune 08, 2012

Quote from: Chozo

Quote from: Adrock

Still, I'm personally probably never going to need more than the 8GB because I'm not downloading anything but patches and firmware updates.

That still might not be enough, because I know from experience on the PS3 that patches can frequently be hundreds of megabytes in size, or even gigabytes in size. The worst example I can recall from memory was the patch for Battlefield Bad Company 2 which was like 2 gigabytes or something like that. The reason the patch was so huge is because EA bundles their DLC in with it, so even if you have zero interest in buying that DLC you still have to download it anyway just to be compatible with the other players who might have it.

Do you see what I'm saying? When you start dealing with patches that are hundreds of megs or 1 or 2 gigabytes then that 8gb is going to be eroded real fast, because even if you don't buy DLC its going to be required for you to download it anyway for compatibility reasons.

This does make me wonder if Nintendo will stick to their usual policy on whether to allow third parties to patch their games.  Will that relax that restriction for Wii U, or given the small size will they still enforce that policy?  That alone would probably be a deterrent for some developers. 

AdrockJune 08, 2012

I have a PS3 with a 120GB hard drive. If there's a retail release, I ALWAYS buy the retail release. In the 6 years I've been posting here, most of you have probably heard me say that I don't mind DLC but never buy it, I don't like patches but download them if I have to, and I've only gone out of my way to buy a single downloadable game (Shantae: Risky's Revenge then 2 others with the left over points). That said, I'm the last person who would need/want tons of storage space. If it wasn't free, I didn't download it. When I get home (and if I remember), I'll have to check to see how much storage in my PS3 I used. I wouldn't be surprised if it was over 8GB.

None of this extra storage stuff is for me. I won't need it, most likely anyway. Still, I like that Nintendo supports USB hard drives and I support the idea of at least an additional "pro" SKU which includes a hard drive. Even if I'd never use the extra storage, it stands to help me in the long run if, for example, it helps convince 3rd parties that while Nintendo will continue to go after casual gamers, they're also all in with core gamers and 3rd parties who want to cater to that group.

I don't really understand the logic of people saying it's unfair to ask people to pay for something they won't use. People pay for shit they don't use all the time. That's just the nature of consumer electronics. People aren't paying for the use of specific pieces; they're paying for the collective product. I paid for things on the Wii I never used. I tried backwards compatibility for shits and giggles (because it was there) then never used it again. I didn't want to pay for something I didn't use, but it's just part of the console. For a closer comparison, I didn't fill the 512MB internal storage. It'd be silly for me to say that I shouldn't have had to pay for 512MB if I didn't come close to using 512MB.

Chozo GhostJune 08, 2012

Maybe the lack of storage is the reason why EA hasn't announced Battlefield 3 for the Wii U? A year ago there was a lot of talk about BF3 coming to the Wii U, but now E3 has come and gone without it being mentioned, so it probably isn't going to happen. From what I understand BF3 is a very DLC heavy game and EA is milking the crap out of it with downloadable content left and right. Maybe the fact the Wii U only has 8gb of storage is the reason they decided not to bother porting it over?

CericJune 08, 2012

I see a lot of people comparing this to the PS3.  Which is a false comparison because its more like the 360.  You have to take in addition to gaming functionality patching the PS3 gets patched most of the time to enable more media functions.  New Codex, more efficient video support, etc.

Wii U isn't going to have these features.  So I doubt it will need as much space for patches.  Though that branches me into the irony that this discussion has brought to my attention.

Nintendo is trying to get the hardcore and casual support.  They put a universal remote functionality into the Gamepad.  Yet, they are supporting the least amount of media.  That is what casual people will use a system for.  Blu-Ray/DVD player that can happen to play the occasional game.  In all honestly my PS3 is Blu-Ray/DVD/DLNA/Netflix player that can happen to occasional play games.  When it was time to pick a platform for Skylanders it was meant for the Wii I know this but I picked the PS3 one.  Why?  Because it is my Blu-Ray/DVD/DLNA/Netflix player I know where the remotes are and the rest of the family use it.  My poor Wii Blinked with the Hulu update for about 3 months before I finally got another SD Card to put into it so I can download my Secret Santa gifts, which DK2 looks really ugly on a large screen.  Wii just didn't give me a reason to consistantly use it.  Wii U is on track to not give me a reason to consistantly use it.  Compared to that this space junk is a non-issue.

BranDonk KongJune 08, 2012

XBox 360 only has 4GB unless you get the 250GB (or is it 320GB) model now, or buy one of their supremely over priced hard drives. 8GB is more than I thought they would include. Also the size of a hard drive doesn't have as much to do with the cost (not the price) as you'd think, a 500GB HDD might sell for $40 more than a 250GB HDD, but the cost to build one over the other is minimal.

Anyway, if you're bitching about this, you shouldn't be, and you should be happy that the price will be lower because of this, and you certainly will not *need* a larger HDD at launch (or probably any time soon after), and you can just add whatever USB HDD you want.

broodwarsJune 08, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

Is it right to make all four of us pay for 32 GB cards when only one of us used it?  Does it make a lick of business sense to price your item higher and limit those who you can sell it to based on a feature that few will use and those that do will be able to easily and optionally take care of on their own?

You know what?  You're right.  Nintendo shouldn't make us pay for any feature we don't need.  So while we're on that kick, how about we strip out that awful Wii U GamePad while we're at it?  Nintendo didn't have a single game at E3 that makes me want to play games with that thing, and that's probably an $80-$100 controller with the cost getting passed on to me.  I'm sure many core gamers like me would be just fine with just the likely $20 Pro controller that (unlike the GamePad) probably has a battery life longer than 2-3 hours.

Yeah, that logic doesn't work, does it?  Just because you don't use a feature, that doesn't mean you exclude other gamers by not including it.  Nintendo hyped this device last year as a machine for us, the core gamers who do download lots of games, who do care about storage.  Judging by this topic, there's a great many people here who care about having storage on the Wii U, and for people like us 8 GB is a joke.  To me, it shows that Nintendo still doesn't know what they want with the Wii U.  I wonder how many 3rd parties are going to bother supporting a Nintendo digital platform where their userbase by default has very little storage?  It's not like 3rd parties need much of a reason to ignore a Nintendo digital platform after the mess that was WiiWare.

Quote from: Brandogg

Anyway, if you're bitching about this, you shouldn't be, and you should be happy that the price will be lower because of this

This is Nintendo we're talking about, the company that charged $250 for the 3DS just because they could.  I'm not convinced the kind of savings you're thinking of would be passed on to us.  I think Nintendo saves a lot of money on HDD costs, and they pocket the difference while charging us the same price they were originally.

CericJune 08, 2012

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: UncleBob

Is it right to make all four of us pay for 32 GB cards when only one of us used it?  Does it make a lick of business sense to price your item higher and limit those who you can sell it to based on a feature that few will use and those that do will be able to easily and optionally take care of on their own?

You know what?  You're right.  Nintendo shouldn't make us pay for any feature we don't need.  So while we're on that kick, how about we strip out that awful Wii U GamePad while we're at it?  Nintendo didn't have a single game at E3 that makes me want to play games with that thing, and that's probably an $80-$100 controller with the cost getting passed on to me.  I'm sure many core gamers like me would be just fine with just the likely $20 Pro controller that (unlike the GamePad) probably has a battery life longer than 2-3 hours.

Yeah, that logic doesn't work, does it?  Just because you don't use a feature, that doesn't mean you exclude other gamers by not including it.  Nintendo hyped this device last year as a machine for us, the core gamers who do download lots of games, who do care about storage.  Judging by this topic, there's a great many people here who care about having storage on the Wii U, and for people like us 8 GB is a joke.  To me, it shows that Nintendo still doesn't know what they want with the Wii U.  I wonder how many 3rd parties are going to bother supporting a Nintendo digital platform where their userbase by default has very little storage?  It's not like 3rd parties need much of a reason to ignore a Nintendo digital platform after the mess that was WiiWare.

Your analogy is flawed and you know it.  A more apt analogy would be taking the screen out of the Gamepad.

I will say that Nintendo has done a terrible terrible job in making the case for the Gamepad with what they shown this year.  I would say the same for Kinect with Microsoft ("Hey this game is Kinect enabled as a glorified voice command system"), but I digress.  Besides the ZombiU and Rayman Usage and that was Ubisoft.

Did Nintendo have there Ducks in a row?  Lord no.

Did Sony or MS have there Ducks in a Row?  For console you would really need Ducks to line up and for Vita I don't know if Sony just likes shooting itself in the foot.

Though if you look back when the specs where first hinted at you'll notice my hope was just to go ahead and make the Internal 8GB a fast game staging area.  use the really fast Flash and make it an uber buffer for the disc and download games.

I honestly be surprised in a way if Nintendo doesn't sell a Bundle that comes with a USB Harddrive and all the Controllers.

smallsharkbigbiteJune 08, 2012

Quote:

"Is it right to make all four of us pay for 32 GB cards when only one of us used it?  Does it make a lick of business sense to price your item higher and limit those who you can sell it to based on a feature that few will use and those that do will be able to easily and optionally take care of on their own?"


The model has already been set by the xbox.  You want to sell a gimped 8 gig model fine.  But have a higher gig model available for the core.  Right?  Not too hard to figure out.  Well I guess it is. 

Quote:

"Anyway, if you're bitching about this, you shouldn't be, and you should be happy that the price will be lower because of this, and you certainly will not *need* a larger HDD at launch (or probably any time soon after), and you can just add whatever USB HDD you want."


That's where I gaurantee you're wrong.  The Wii-U will not be cheaper because it doesn't have a hard drive.  It will only drive Nintendo profits because it is cheaper.  The Wii-U will cost what the market will bear.  Remember the time period when the xbox 360 was cheaper than the Wii?  Is that because those Wii components were just so darn expensive? 

Quote:

"I see a lot of people comparing this to the PS3.  Which is a false comparison because its more like the 360.  You have to take in addition to gaming functionality patching the PS3 gets patched most of the time to enable more media functions.  New Codex, more efficient video support, etc."


Do these video games turn into full length blu ray movies?  I get the Wii wasn't close to PS3 as an online console.  But the Wii-U is supposed to bring 1080p, voice chat, better online experience?  I fail to see how Wii-U games won't at least compare to PS3 games as an experience unless you are already conceding that Wii-U won't have as good of online as current gen. 



CericJune 08, 2012

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

"I see a lot of people comparing this to the PS3.  Which is a false comparison because its more like the 360.  You have to take in addition to gaming functionality patching the PS3 gets patched most of the time to enable more media functions.  New Codex, more efficient video support, etc."

Do these video games turn into full length blu ray movies?  I get the Wii wasn't close to PS3 as an online console.  But the Wii-U is supposed to bring 1080p, voice chat, better online experience?  I fail to see how Wii-U games won't at least compare to PS3 games as an experience unless you are already conceding that Wii-U won't have as good of online as current gen. 

A lot of the patches for PS3 have absolutely nothing to do with games was the overall point.  Nothing to do with the games.

broodwarsJune 08, 2012

Quote from: Ceric

Your analogy is flawed and you know it.  A more apt analogy would be taking the screen out of the Gamepad.

Here's my justification for that analogy: Nintendo's response to those who don't like the pitifully low storage on the Wii U is to go out and buy your own HDD.  Similarly, their response to those who don't like the gimmicky, expensive Wii U controller is to go out and buy a GamePad Pro with the screen taken out.  That's basically all the GamePad Pro is, really: a black GamePad with the screen removed and some different triggers.

Quote from: Ceric

For console you would really need Ducks to line up and for Vita I don't know if Sony just likes shooting itself in the foot.

You really don't want to get me (as a Vita owner) started on Sony's utter failure in handling the Vita.  ;)

smallsharkbigbiteJune 08, 2012

Quote from: Ceric

A lot of the patches for PS3 have absolutely nothing to do with games was the overall point.  Nothing to do with the games.


Please enlighten me then.  What are these 2 gig patches doing if they don't fix known glitches, make the online experience better, or enhance the overall utilization of the game?  Just a few examples would be great.

CericJune 08, 2012

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

Quote from: Ceric

A lot of the patches for PS3 have absolutely nothing to do with games was the overall point.  Nothing to do with the games.


Please enlighten me then.  What are these 2 gig patches doing if they don't fix known glitches, make the online experience better, or enhance the overall utilization of the game?  Just a few examples would be great.

Quote:

4.11
Network
The Internet browser has been improved for better support of interactive features and content display.> See details

Other
Your "PlayStation®Network account" is now a "Sony Entertainment Network account". You can continue using your current sign-in ID and password to sign in to PlayStation®Network.

New for 4.11: System software has been improved.

4.10
Setting the date and time automatically

The option has been added under Settings (Settings) > Date and Time Settings (Date and Time Settings). > See details

4.00

    Upscaler output and Cinema conversion are now supported for Blu-ray Disc™ (BDMV) content. "Blu-ray Disc™" and "Blu-ray™" are trademarks of the Blu-ray Disc Association.
    You can now select the items you want to update under  (System Settings) > . This feature is exclusively for use by PlayStation®Plus members.
    Two new system languages have been added: and are now available under (Settings) >  (System Settings) > .

3.73
Video

    3D playback* of Blu-ray Java™ ("BD-J") content is now supported. You can now enjoy
    BD-J content recorded on Blu-ray 3D™ discs.
    DTS-HD audio output is now supported while playing Blu-ray 3D™ content*.

Photo

MPO (Multi-Picture format) files for 3D photos and multi-angle photos can now be displayed under photo (Photo) and in photo (Photo Gallery).

3.61

Sony Network Change

3.50

The PS3™ system can now play 3D content on Blu-ray 3D™ discs.

3.4

PlayStation®Plus subscription service

    The PlayStation®Plus subscription service package is now included on PlayStation®Network.
    > See details

PlayStation®Network area of Photo Gallery

    has been added under Settings (Photo Gallery). You can now use Photo Gallery to browse photos from Facebook® or Picasa™ Web Albums. You can also share photos from Photo Gallery with your Friends in PlayStation®Network.
    > See details

Video Editor & Uploader

    Using the video editing and uploading feature, you can now edit video content that is saved on your PS3™ system's hard disk and upload it to Facebook or YouTube™.
    > See details

Facebook® is a service that helps you connect and share with the people in your life. Facebook is a registered trademark of Facebook, Inc. YouTube and Picasa™ Web Albums are trademarks of Google Inc.
Other new or revised features in version 3.40
Settings

    has been added as an option under Settings (Display Settings).
    has been added as a feature under Settings (System Settings). This feature is exclusively for use by PlayStation®Plus members.  > See details
    The default setting for under Settings (Power Save Settings) has been changed to .

Photo

    You can now print a photo in Settings (Photo Gallery).  > See details
    You can now delete a photo in Settings (Photo Gallery).  > See details

Friends

    You can now see the trophy level of a Friend by selecting the Friend's avatar.

Thats not even reaching back that far.  You can find more here

smallsharkbigbiteJune 08, 2012

Those are PS3 operating system patches, not in game patches which I thought was what we were discussing.  None of those should take up additional space because they are just overwriting the existing used memory. 

I think alot of the GAME patches add value and clearly the developers do or they wouldn't waste their time doing it.  But that's subjective.  What's not subjective, is if you don't patch you'll lose access to multiplayer components because they aren't going to have multiple versions of the game running on their servers.  So unless you want to lose a significant part of the game, you'll patch.  Doesn't matter what is in it. 

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterJune 08, 2012

I can buy any hard drive I want? That's great! I see no problem with this what so ever.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 08, 2012

Quote from: broodwars

You know what?  You're right.  Nintendo shouldn't make us pay for any feature we don't need.  So while we're on that kick, how about we strip out that awful Wii U GamePad while we're at it?  Nintendo didn't have a single game at E3 that makes me want to play games with that thing, and that's probably an $80-$100 controller with the cost getting passed on to me.  I'm sure many core gamers like me would be just fine with just the likely $20 Pro controller that (unlike the GamePad) probably has a battery life longer than 2-3 hours.

You're in luck!  Here you go!

broodwarsJune 08, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

You're in luck!  Here you go!

Looks like we both agree that, right now, if you already own one of the other HD consoles, there's no reason whatsoever to buy a Wii U.  And, incidentally, my Xbox 360 came with a 120 GB HDD.

Sheesh, dude, and I thought NinSage was the big Nintendo apologist here.  ;)

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 08, 2012

Oddly, I've never told anyone that they should have to have any particular system from any particular manufacture for any particular reason.

Buy what you like to play what you like.  If you don't like the Wii U, fine... stick with your 360 if that makes you happy. :D

The funny thing is, though, you seem to be in a tizzy because the Wii U has a small internal storage with the option to expand that.  You're trying to make it sound as if that's a reason not to get a Wii U.

But a Wii U without the Game Pad and with a 120 GB hard drive is... still your XBox 360.  Still no reason to get one.

A Wii U with a Game Pad and with OPTIONAL storage is... not a 360.  Reason to get one?  Up to you.

Quote from: ThePerm

propriety storage needs to be going the way of the dodo. Which is why i think its GOOD that nintendo gives you the option to get your own storage rather than requiring you to by storage with the console.

+1

Ian SaneJune 08, 2012

This isn't a deal breaker for me but it is something I'm concerned about.  I have to see if it will have a negative effect.  Although other things have made me have a wait-and-see approach it is just another thing to put off my potential Wii U purchase.

I'm not even that interested in stuff like DLC but it can still effect my enjoyment of the system.  Let's say that because of this third parties start excluding the Wii U on DLC.  Core gamers that own multiple systems then decide to not get the Wii U versions of games because of the lack of DLC.  Third parties notice that the Wii U version always sells the least, come to the conclusion that third party games don't sell on the Wii U, and scale back support.  Hell, I noticed this on the Gamecube.  It's lack of online meant that for any online third party game the Gamecube version was always the worst because it just outright lacked a feature the other versions had.  The sales reflected that.  No one bought those game unless the Cube was the only system they owned.  Third parties noticed that the Cube version always sold the worst.  These seemingly minor decisions can have a ripple effect.

And what Nintendo either never realizes or is too arrogant to admit is that NO ONE is going to cut them slack.  They don't have a good relationship with third parties and they're not popular with core gamers.  No one will tolerate any of their bullshit.  No one will make an exception for them.  So if the next systems have much larger storage space as a standard and downloading retail titles becomes a big thing, then no is going to just give the Wii U a pass on this.  They don't have the clout or the reputation to expect that.  Give the core gamers and excuse not to buy or the third parties an excuse to not support it, and that's what will happen.  That's why the Cube failed.  They burned all their bridges with the N64 and then just did a half-assed effort with all sorts of little goofy mistakes and no one cut them slack.

tendoboy1984June 08, 2012

Considering how good Nintendo is at compressing file sizes, 8 GB is plenty. I have a 16 GB SD card in my 3DS, and an 8 GB SD card in my Wii. Both cards have plenty of "blocks" left (8 GB has over 50,000 blocks, 16 GB has over 100,000 blocks).

And you can expand the storage of the Wii U by using a USB hard drive or SD card. There are plenty of options for those that want bigger storage.

And I'd love to know why Time is reporting rumors as fact. Nintendo hasn't said how much internal memory the Wii U has.

broodwarsJune 08, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

The funny thing is, though, you seem to be in a tizzy because the Wii U has a small internal storage with the option to expand that.  You're trying to make it sound as if that's a reason not to get a Wii U.

Actually, I don't think it's directly a reason not to get a Wii U.  I'm saying it's a reason for developers to not support the Wii U with digital games and DLC that the "stupid masses" aren't going to have the storage space to hold.  It's the same crap Nintendo pulled on the Wii, and it didn't work then either.  And that may be a reason to not get a Wii U.

Quote:

But a Wii U without the Game Pad and with a 120 GB hard drive is... still your XBox 360.  Still no reason to get one.

In that scenario, it would come down to the games, which the Wii U won't have at launch. None of the Wii U exclusive games are system-sellers for me, and only Pikmin 3 interests me at all.  And I can play all the non-exclusives on platforms I already own, so they don't justify the likely $200-$300+ Wii U price.

But with a large HDD at launch, Nintendo would be telling 3rd parties that they have their back.  They've ensured that there's plenty of space for the average gamer to download essentially whatever they want.  3rd party developers see that, and there's no reason for them to hold back on developing digital games for the Wii U (aside from Microsoft money hats, of course).

And before you rush to point to the 4 GB 360 again, Microsoft has spent 2 console cycles building up their online infrastructure and ensuring that their audience is both informed about and enticed to download digital titles.  As for Sony, the PS3 you can get off store shelves these days comes with a 250 GB HDD, and their online store has a steady flow of demos and sales to keep interest high in their digital store.  Nintendo, meanwhile, has a laughable at best record with promoting their online store.

Quote:

A Wii U with a Game Pad and with OPTIONAL storage is... not a 360.  Reason to get one?  Up to you.

I've been quite explicit since the thing was announced that I had no interest whatsoever in the GamePad.  Nintendo had an opportunity to convince me why that controller was so necessary that they've spent 2 abysmal E3 press conferences on it, and they have failed to present a convincing argument.

You wanted to complain about hypothetically being forced to pay for a relatively-cheap HDD you don't think you'll use, and I countered with a complaint about the useless, gimmicky, expensive controller Nintendo would be forcing me to buy with the GamePad.  Somehow I think you would be getting the cheaper end of that hypothetical.

rlse9June 08, 2012

I can understand only including a small amount of storage but 8GB seems really small.  Isn't the standard for modern phones, iPads, other tablets, etc. 16GB?  Why not at least bump it up to 16GB, that seems like it'd probably be enough for most people, 8GB seems like it could be small, not so much for more serious gamers who are going to need a hard drive regardless but even for more casual gamers who may want to just download a game here or there and not want to buy a hard drive.

I wonder if Nintendo will be smart and have a "gamer" bundle with the pro controller and a hard drive packed in.  Seems like it'd be something that would sell well.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 08, 2012

Quote from: broodwars

I've been quite explicit since the thing was announced that I had no interest whatsoever in the GamePad.

The Wii U isn't for you then.

There's a specific reason why the GamePad has been front-and-center of every single Wii U media piece.  The GamePad is the thing that sets the Wii U apart from the PS3/360.  If you already have one of those and don't care about the GamePad, then stay the course with your PS3/360.  Use the $250+ and buy some games and be happy.

broodwarsJune 08, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

Quote from: broodwars

I've been quite explicit since the thing was announced that I had no interest whatsoever in the GamePad.

The Wii U isn't for you then.

There's a specific reason why the GamePad has been front-and-center of every single Wii U media piece.  The GamePad is the thing that sets the Wii U apart from the PS3/360.  If you already have one of those and don't care about the GamePad, then stay the course with your PS3/360.  Use the $250+ and buy some games and be happy.

Eh, not necessarily.  Nintendo does have their Pro controller for people like me.  As I said before, it all comes down to whether Nintendo can ensure compelling software.  I disagree with your assessment that it's the hardware that makes Nintendo unique.  For me, it's always been the software that's been the "Nintendo difference".  After all, I tolerated the horrible Wii years for the handful of great games it got.  If Nintendo can bring the must-buy software, I can tolerate their gimmicky hardware issues.  So far, they just haven't.  Pikmin 3 looks cool and all, but it's just not enough to be worth $250-$300+ purchase.

Chozo GhostJune 08, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

The GamePad is the thing that sets the Wii U apart from the PS3/360.

But what is the thing that will set the Wii U apart from the PS4/420? We all know Sony and Microsoft are copying the idea as we speak, so what will the Wii U have that sets it apart from its 8th generation competitors?

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 08, 2012

broodwars already said it.  Nintendo games.  But if you're not excited about 2D Mario, Pikmin and games like Nintendo Land - not to mention knowing that you're going to get a great quantity of games from Nintendo like we've gotten on every single other Nintendo system (outside of the Virtual Boy) - and you're not interested in the GamePad, then there's no reason to get a Wii U.  Nintendo's changed, you've changed, relationships change, couples grow apart and move on.  Maybe it's time for you to move on.

Quote from: Sundoulos

Quote from: Chozo

Quote from: Adrock

Still, I'm personally probably never going to need more than the 8GB because I'm not downloading anything but patches and firmware updates.

That still might not be enough, because I know from experience on the PS3 that patches can frequently be hundreds of megabytes in size, or even gigabytes in size. The worst example I can recall from memory was the patch for Battlefield Bad Company 2 which was like 2 gigabytes or something like that. The reason the patch was so huge is because EA bundles their DLC in with it, so even if you have zero interest in buying that DLC you still have to download it anyway just to be compatible with the other players who might have it.

Do you see what I'm saying? When you start dealing with patches that are hundreds of megs or 1 or 2 gigabytes then that 8gb is going to be eroded real fast, because even if you don't buy DLC its going to be required for you to download it anyway for compatibility reasons.

This does make me wonder if Nintendo will stick to their usual policy on whether to allow third parties to patch their games.  Will that relax that restriction for Wii U, or given the small size will they still enforce that policy?  That alone would probably be a deterrent for some developers. 

Nintendo changed their policy recently. We've already seen one third party 3DS game patched, and I think several more are in the pipeline.

Chozo GhostJune 09, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

broodwars already said it.  Nintendo games.  But if you're not excited about 2D Mario, Pikmin and games like Nintendo Land - not to mention knowing that you're going to get a great quantity of games from Nintendo like we've gotten on every single other Nintendo system (outside of the Virtual Boy) - and you're not interested in the GamePad, then there's no reason to get a Wii U.  Nintendo's changed, you've changed, relationships change, couples grow apart and move on.  Maybe it's time for you to move on.

The relationship could be made to work. All it would take is a little compromise...

tendoboy1984June 09, 2012

Quote from: broodwars

Here's my justification for that analogy: Nintendo's response to those who don't like the pitifully low storage on the Wii U is to go out and buy your own HDD.

And that's very common among electronic devices. Many smartphones come with only 8-16 GB of storage, and you have to buy memory cards to expand it.

Another device that has done this for years is the Xbox 360. The base model comes with a small amount of flash memory, and you need to buy a hard drive to expand it.

I have a feeling that Nintendo will sell the 8GB Wii U as a base model, and they'll also offer a "premium" model with an external hard drive. Just like the Xbox 360.


Not everyone is going to be downloading tons of games and apps. It's good to give consumers a choice with their purchases. The base 8GB model would be for more casual gamers, while a model with an included hard drive would be for the "core" gamers.

It also supports SD cards and you can get a 32 GB SD card for $20 if you shop around, and that should last you a whole.

tendoboy1984June 09, 2012

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

It also supports SD cards and you can get a 32 GB SD card for $20 if you shop around, and that should last you a whole.

Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wii U supported larger cards than 32GB.


And like I said before, Nintendo is very good at compressing file sizes.

OblivionJune 09, 2012

I'm actually glad about this. Plug in a 32 GB SD card. Run out of space? Buy an external hard drive. Not enough cash for an expensive hard drive? buy a 32 GB USB drive. Easy peasy.

tendoboy1984June 09, 2012

Quote from: Oblivion

I'm actually glad about this. Plug in a 32 GB SD card. Run out of space? Buy an external hard drive. Not enough cash for an expensive hard drive? buy a 32 GB USB drive. Easy peasy.

Sarcasm?


If anything it will keep the base price of the console down. And that's a good thing if Nintendo wants to sell a lot of systems.

OblivionJune 09, 2012

No, it isn't.

Chozo GhostJune 09, 2012

I don't get why they couldn't also offer a premium SKU which has an internal hard drive. I'm not saying they shouldn't offer the 8gb flash model, but why can't they do both? That's the way Microsoft has done things with their various Xbox 360 models, and apparently it must be working well for them. Why can't Nintendo do that?

broodwarsJune 09, 2012

Quote from: Chozo

I don't get why they couldn't also offer a premium SKU which has an internal hard drive. I'm not saying they shouldn't offer the 8gb flash model, but why can't they do both? That's the way Microsoft has done things with their various Xbox 360 models, and apparently it must be working well for them. Why can't Nintendo do that?

Because Nintendo can never seem to admit when others have figured out the best known solution to a problem before they have.  They just have to do things "differently" for the sake of doing so.

And, frankly, 32 GB of storage is not that great, either.  I wouldn't rely on that if you plan on downloading HD games from the eShop.  I'm close to maxing-out my 32 GB Vita memory card just porting over my PSP games and a couple of Vita games.  And considering my largest Vita game is 3 GB and my largest PS3 one is 14 GB....yeah, that 32 GB vanishes quickly.

ShyGuyJune 09, 2012

Why is this such a Hot Topic?

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 09, 2012

Quote from: Chozo

I don't get why they couldn't also offer a premium SKU which has an internal hard drive. I'm not saying they shouldn't offer the 8gb flash model, but why can't they do both? That's the way Microsoft has done things with their various Xbox 360 models, and apparently it must be working well for them. Why can't Nintendo do that?

XBox 360 4 GB - $199
XBox 360 250 GB - $299

1 TB External Hard Drive from Newegg... $89.99

So... do I spend $100 on a smaller hard drive that I can't use on anything else ever... or spend less on a hard drive that's more than four times the size that I can use on any PC ever?

Chozo GhostJune 09, 2012

Uncle Bob, do you think casuals/non-gamers will be savvy enough to even know about that newegg site? When it comes to the non-savvy soccer moms and grandparents the product has to work out of the box, or else it isn't going to work at all. True, you can get it up to speed with additional purchases, but I don't think that is going to happen with a large segment of the market that Nintendo is going after.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 09, 2012

1 TB External Hard Drive from Walmart... $89.99

Do casuals and soccer moms know about Walmart?

Besides, for casuals and soccer moms, 8 GB is likely going to be plenty.  Beyond that, the vast majority of them are not too stupid to either understand external storage or ask tech support/sales rep about it.

SundoulosJune 09, 2012

Honestly, people talk as if all "casual" gamers can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

AdrockJune 09, 2012

Of course, they can. However, I think it's better to approach them by pretending that they can't.

I've done tech support jobs before - for the most part, they can't.

smallsharkbigbiteJune 09, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

XBox 360 4 GB - $199
XBox 360 250 GB - $299

1 TB External Hard Drive from Newegg... $89.99

So... do I spend $100 on a smaller hard drive that I can't use on anything else ever... or spend less on a hard drive that's more than four times the size that I can use on any PC ever?

The 250 gb comes with a headset, and it seems there are only bundles now for the 250 gb.  Either Forza 4 with a steering wheel or the two game holiday bundle.  All for $299, and they let you use an external hardrive.  But don't let that cloud your vision, obviously the harddive is overpriced because that other crap adds $0 value. 

Also, why are you so focused on the 360?  PS3 uses 2.5" hard drives, why can't the Wii-U?  I mean Microsoft is the only proprietary drive on the market and we are acting like this is a big win? 

I also like it how you've gone from I never tell people what to buy to telling everyone the Wii-U is not for them.  We are all Nintendo fans here or we wouldn't use this site.  No reason to get bitter because people are passionate. 

Mop it upJune 09, 2012

8GB will probably be plenty for me. The only reason I ever downloaded games on the Wii was because of all the cheap points I got from a Pepsi promotion, so I doubt I'll want anything on the Wii U unless that happens. I might fill up my memory with game saves once I play everything, but 8GB should be plenty for game saves, especially if none of that is used for the system's features, unlike the Wii's memory.

smallsharkbigbiteJune 09, 2012

Quote from: Sundoulos

Honestly, people talk as if all "casual" gamers can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

Actually, I think people are just cheap and lazy.  $90 would certainly fix the issue by picking up an external hard drive.  But my entertainment stand is already cluttered and has plugs everywhere so why add an hd and a wii-u?  I'd probably not buy DL games rather than buy an external hard drive, unless there was a killer ap I felt I needed.  And thus, I think by having a bigger DL solution up front, Nintendo could encourage people to purchase DLC and thus they would make their money back ten fold on whatever the HD costs since DLC typically has big margins.

$90 start up cost for downloadable games is a deterrent to me.  $5-15 that they typically cost is not.  Plus early adopters are already getting screwed with all the other stuff you have to buy on top of the console that you're just adding one more thing.   

RedBlueJune 09, 2012

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

Quote from: UncleBob

XBox 360 4 GB - $199
XBox 360 250 GB - $299

1 TB External Hard Drive from Newegg... $89.99

So... do I spend $100 on a smaller hard drive that I can't use on anything else ever... or spend less on a hard drive that's more than four times the size that I can use on any PC ever?

The 250 gb comes with a headset, and it seems there are only bundles now for the 250 gb.  Either Forza 4 with a steering wheel or the two game holiday bundle.  All for $299, and they let you use an external hardrive.  But don't let that cloud your vision, obviously the harddive is overpriced because that other crap adds $0 value. 

Also, why are you so focused on the 360?  PS3 uses 2.5" hard drives, why can't the Wii-U?  I mean Microsoft is the only proprietary drive on the market and we are acting like this is a big win? 

I also like it how you've gone from I never tell people what to buy to telling everyone the Wii-U is not for them.  We are all Nintendo fans here or we wouldn't use this site.  No reason to get bitter because people are passionate. 

Xbox 360 320GB hard drive 129.99 at walmart for the same price you can pick up a USB 3.0 2TB hard drive at walmart. So for the same price I could pick up 6 times more space for my Wii-U. I'll stick to non-proprietary hard drives.  :cool;

I've got a 320 GB drive that used to be in my computer before I upgraded it that's just sitting here, so this doesn't really bother me personally, but I can see why some people are pissed about this. A hard drive bay, even if it shipped without a drive in it, would be nice as well.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 09, 2012

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

The 250 gb comes with a headset, and it seems there are only bundles now for the 250 gb.  Either Forza 4 with a steering wheel or the two game holiday bundle.  All for $299, and they let you use an external hardrive.  But don't let that cloud your vision, obviously the harddive is overpriced because that other crap adds $0 value.

Forza 4 (assuming that you *want* it) - $45 on Amazon.
Offical 360 Headset (Wii U does voice chat without a headset, but okay) - $7.29 on Amazon.

So... $47.21 for the 250 GB Hard Drive...
500 GB Hard Drive on Amazon.com... $47.73

Fifty-Two cents, I get twice the memory and a hard drive I can use on whatever PC I want.

Quote:

Also, why are you so focused on the 360?

Because some folks keep bringing up the 360 in comparison...

Quote:

PS3 uses 2.5" hard drives, why can't the Wii-U?

Wait... Casual players are so stupid they won't understand external memory, but now we expect them to dissect their system and install a hard drive?

Quote:

I also like it how you've gone from I never tell people what to buy to telling everyone the Wii-U is not for them.

Anyone who says "I want the Wii U to fail" has already decided the Wii U is not for them.

Quote from: Adrock

Of course, they can. However, I think it's better to approach them by pretending that they can't.

If Nintendo should approach groups of consumers based on poor stereotypes of the most vocal within that group, then Nintendo should just assume that all hardcore gamers are whiny twits that will never be happy with Nintendo no matter what, so why bother doing anything for them anyway?

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

The 250 gb comes with a headset, and it seems there are only bundles now for the 250 gb.  Either Forza 4 with a steering wheel or the two game holiday bundle.  All for $299, and they let you use an external hardrive.

The USB storage capacity for the 360 is capped at 32GB (2x16), actually. You can mod existing drives to work in the 360, but you can't just plug a hard drive into the 360 like the WiiU can and have it work.

broodwarsJune 09, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

Anyone who says "I want the Wii U to fail" has already decided the Wii U is not for them.

Considering I'm the person you were originally talking to when you said "the Wii is not for you", I'm really curious when I've used the phrase "I want the Wii U to fail".  I've seen a few other posters use that phrase in regards to Nintendo learning humility (a sentiment I can sympathize with), but I don't believe I've ever said that.

On a sidenote, to whoever keeps smiting me whenever I make a post (regardless of whether it's positive or negative): get a life, because you obviously don't have one.

Chozo GhostJune 09, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

Anyone who says "I want the Wii U to fail" has already decided the Wii U is not for them.

My opinion on the Wii U is subject to change. Right now after seeing what I have of it at E3 my opinion is really low. Things could turn around. I understand E3 isn't necessarily the end all be all, and maybe this year's GDC thing will set things right.

Quote from: broodwars

Considering I'm the person you were originally talking to when you said "the Wii is not for you", I'm really curious when I've used the phrase "I want the Wii U to fail".  I've seen a few other posters use that phrase in regards to Nintendo learning humility (a sentiment I can sympathize with), but I don't believe I've ever said that.

I was the one who said "I want the Wii U to fail", hence why my title was changed to what it is... but that is completely out of context. The reason I said I wanted it to fail is because I am afraid its going to end up like the Wii all over again, and I believe that for the good of the company it might be best if it did fail, because then maybe things would go more towards the way core gamers want them to be.

That said, for all I know the Wii U could even end up being a great system. I don't know that yet... if it does end up being a great system with consistent 3rd party support and no software droughts then I don't want it to fail, and if that were the case it wouldn't fail anyway.... but again, if its the Wii all over again with nothing but droughts and shovelware then yes, I think it would be best if it failed and was out of its misery.

The last 6 years with the Wii (especially from about 2009 onwards) have been really depressing for me as a Nintendo fan. I don't want to go through that again... if that's what the Wii U is going to be then yes, I do want it to fail. This is the context in which I said that... its not because I'm some anti-Nintendo troll or anything, but just from seeing my title without that context one might think that.

CericJune 09, 2012

Ironically, Even though from what I've read its super easier to swap the PS3 Harddrive.  I would put it over head/comfort level of most people. 

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

Quote from: Sundoulos

Honestly, people talk as if all "casual" gamers can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

Actually, I think people are just cheap and lazy.  $90 would certainly fix the issue by picking up an external hard drive.  But my entertainment stand is already cluttered and has plugs everywhere so why add an hd and a wii-u?  I'd probably not buy DL games rather than buy an external hard drive, unless there was a killer ap I felt I needed.  And thus, I think by having a bigger DL solution up front, Nintendo could encourage people to purchase DLC and thus they would make their money back ten fold on whatever the HD costs since DLC typically has big margins.

$90 start up cost for downloadable games is a deterrent to me.  $5-15 that they typically cost is not.  Plus early adopters are already getting screwed with all the other stuff you have to buy on top of the console that you're just adding one more thing.   

For this all Nintendo needs is enough space to get people to use the service and like the service.  Once they run out of space if they like the services provided they need to make a choice:  Space Management or spending money for an external drive for more digital content that you just plug in.

Ceric's got the right idea here. As long as there's enough to download a few things and get people liking that, there will be incentive for people to upgrade their storage. Forgetting big drives, you could probably multiply the storage by 5 rather cheaply with cheap USB thumb drives and smaller SD cards.

As it stands I'm pretty confident the Wii U will be $350 at launch. With an internal hard drive or SSD, that would be up to at least $400. This is a compromise on Nintendo's part to keep the price as low as they can.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 09, 2012

Quote from: broodwars

If Nintendo can bring the must-buy software, I can tolerate their gimmicky hardware issues.  So far, they just haven't.

You didn't say you want the Wii U to fail, but you've got your mind set that you're not currently interested in a Wii U.

Thus, I feel safe in saying "it's not for you" when you're not happy with the software shown for it.

Chozo GhostJune 09, 2012

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

As it stands I'm pretty confident the Wii U will be $350 at launch. With an internal hard drive or SSD, that would be up to at least $400. This is a compromise on Nintendo's part to keep the price as low as they can.

There are those who would pay $50 or $100 more for a premium SKU that includes a HDD and maybe one or two other extras. The 8gb model might be fine for the mass market, but I don't see the harm if Nintendo offered an optional "elite" version for those who demand it. Again, its worked out well for the Xbox 360.

And its not like Nintendo themselves have never done something like this before, because the original NES had multiple SKUs with one being the basic thing and another having Duck Hunt and a light gun, and another "premium" version that included that plus ROB and his game.

The 8GB model could be marketed to casuals and come with NintendoLand as its pack in, but for $50 or $100 more they could offer one which includes a HDD, NSMB U, and perhaps one of those optional game pads. They could also give it a different color, like perhaps red.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 09, 2012

Casual consumers are too confused by external storage, but offering them multiple SKUs isn't too confusing?

Do you KNOW how many customers asked what the difference between the black and white Wii systems was? :D

Hmmm... what if this "elite" SKU you mention is the only way to get a black Wii U?

Quote from: Chozo

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

As it stands I'm pretty confident the Wii U will be $350 at launch. With an internal hard drive or SSD, that would be up to at least $400. This is a compromise on Nintendo's part to keep the price as low as they can.

There are those who would pay $50 or $100 more for a premium SKU that includes a HDD and maybe one or two other extras. The 8gb model might be fine for the mass market, but I don't see the harm if Nintendo offered an optional "elite" version for those who demand it. Again, its worked out well for the Xbox 360.

And its not like Nintendo themselves have never done something like this before, because the original NES had multiple SKUs with one being the basic thing and another having Duck Hunt and a light gun, and another "premium" version that included that plus ROB and his game.

The 8GB model could be marketed to casuals and come with NintendoLand as its pack in, but for $50 or $100 more they could offer one which includes a HDD, NSMB U, and perhaps one of those optional game pads. They could also give it a different color, like perhaps red.

They could spend that extra $50 or $100 to buy their own external storage, which would undoubtedly be more substantial than what Nintendo would include for that price bump.

Chozo GhostJune 10, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

Casual consumers are too confused by external storage, but offering them multiple SKUs isn't too confusing?

I'm sure it would confuse some, but it wouldn't be a big deal because its still the same system... worst case scenario is they would be spending a little extra on a feature they wouldn't really use. From Nintendo's perspective this wouldn't matter, and to a casual they probably wouldn't even know any better and would be blissfully ignorant. They would just know their Wii Fit U and Carnival Games U work and that's all that they care about. For them the 8gb model would have been sufficient, but them having a lets say 250GB hard drive model of which they only use a small percentage has no real downside other than that they've spent a bit more than necessary.

Casuals still could benefit from a hard drive anyway if they use the system to download music, movies and TV shows or whatever.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 10, 2012

So... you want Nintendo to take advantage of consumer ignorance?

Chozo GhostJune 10, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

So... you want Nintendo to take advantage of consumer ignorance?

Speaking of taking advantage of consumer ignorance, have you ever went to a place like Walmart and seen those "Wii SD cards" that 3rd parties offer right next to the Wii stuff? They cost like two or three times more than they should, and clearly they are marketed for suckers who don't know that any standard SD card would have sufficed.

Not to mention all those stupid plastic shells that the Wiimote snapped into to turn it into a golf club or tennis racket or whatever. Do you think that wasn't preying on consumer ignorance? Preying on consumer ignorance was pretty much the stock and trade of Wii accessory manufacturers.

And with Nintendo making the Wii U depend on SD cards yet again it looks like history will be repeating itself. Expect these "official Wii U" SD cards to show up at Walmart at a huge markup. You don't really see that so much on the PS360 because those systems don't depend entirely on SD cards. That's the advantage of going with an internal hard drive.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 10, 2012

So... Nintendo should prey on consumer ignorance before other companies do it?

Chozo GhostJune 10, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

So... Nintendo should prey on consumer ignorance before other companies do it?

I don't call it "preying" when you are selling something at or near cost, which is what would be the case with a Wii U + HDD SKU. Some people who would buy it may not use it to the fullest extent, but its not like they aren't getting bang for their buck. Maybe its not a bang they need or use, but at least they get it...

That's a far cry from cheap plastic shells or "Official Wii" SD cards being sold for a huge markup. Those are PREYING on consumer ignorance.

But you can do the same thing yourself, and probably cheaper. Why are you outraged that Nintendo isn't offering an overpriced, somewhat confusing second SKU that would only be bought by people who are capable of doing it better themselves?

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 10, 2012

Selling it at cost seems silly on Nintendo's part.

Let's see, they can sell you (you being a generalized "ignorant" consumer) a Wii U + HD for $50-$100 more and make little profit while you never use the hard drive and end up regretting your additional purchase or they can sell you a Wii U for $50-$100 less and sell you one or two more games for that cost, increasing their attach rates and selling the games at a profit *and* giving you more to enjoy out of your system...

They'd also have to redesign the system to accomodate the drive bay, which would further increase the cost.

Kytim89June 10, 2012

I plan to convert some old NES cartridges to HDD enclosures once the Wii is released.

Chozo GhostJune 10, 2012

I just don't see any downside to offering consumers a choice. You think an "elite" SKU with a HDD and a few other extras is a rip off? Fine, you don't have to buy it. No big deal. I'm not saying they 8GB basic SKU shouldn't exist, I'm all about choice. I just don't understand how some people like Uncle Bob are so against that. It would only be an option.

AdrockJune 10, 2012

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

They'd also have to redesign the system to accomodate the drive bay, which would further increase the cost.

Nintendo wouldn't have had to redesign anything if they designed the console with the hard drive bay in the first place. Gamecube had like 3 extra ports on the bottom. I don't think (and am too lazy to check if) Nintendo had to pay licensing fees for them, but it was nice that they were there. If I remember correctly, 1 of them was never used with any officially released peripheral.

Best case scenario would have been to just include the hard drive bay for people who want that option. A single SKU with an empty hard drive bay would be similar to how Nintendo launched the Wii without an SD card (yes, I know the Wii U has an SD card slot). I would have supported the decision to release a separate SKU with a hard drive included if that was the only way Nintendo would have included a hard drive bay. That way they could make up the research and development cost by selling even a slightly (but probably very) overpriced hard drive to people who can't be bothered to google how to format a better, cheaper, faster hard drive they could find on Amazon or Newegg. And like I said earlier, a SKU with an included hard drive would send a positive message to 3rd parties. Whether it would actually change anything is up to conjecture.

In any case, I still would have bought the 8GB version, but I would like having the hard drive bay in case I change my mind. I know I can get an external hard drive, but honestly, I don't like the clutter that comes with an extra box shaped thing next to my console and more importantly, a drive bay would mean 1 less cord for my cats to chew through. Yes, cat-proofing matters to me.

Unless Nintendo has the power of time travel, what they would have been able to do had they made a different choice years ago is irrelevant to what they can do now. Their choices right now are to redesign the system, which would cost money, or to rely on people buying their own storage, which they appear to be doing.

AdrockJune 10, 2012

Obviously. I was only commenting out how odd those choices are.

smallsharkbigbiteJune 10, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

Forza 4 (assuming that you *want* it) - $45 on Amazon.
Offical 360 Headset (Wii U does voice chat without a headset, but okay) - $7.29 on Amazon.

So... $47.21 for the 250 GB Hard Drive...
500 GB Hard Drive on Amazon.com... $47.73

Fifty-Two cents, I get twice the memory and a hard drive I can use on whatever PC I want.

And the steering wheel?  Personally, 250 gb is enough for me and I'd rather have the built in option.  The bundle has been on sale often for $50 off so if the $47.73 that you're paying for the hard drive is a hold up, wait a few months and you won't be.

Also, the point is they give you the option.  And since you're so technical, you can buy an adapter and use the any existing hard drive you have laying around. 

Quote:

Wait... Casual players are so stupid they won't understand external memory, but now we expect them to dissect their system and install a hard drive?

I never said casual players are stupid.  I said they're lazy and don't want a bunch of cords laying around.  I think a built in option or at least a bay makes this significantly better.

Quote:

Anyone who says "I want the Wii U to fail" has already decided the Wii U is not for them.

I also did not say I want the Wii U to fail.  I'm hoping Nintendo gives me a reason to purchase it, but I haven't seen it yet.  But really, some people think that this is a big deal and some don't.  It's all opinion based and it's just one thing Nintendo has bet on with the Wii-U.  I just don't see the point in responding to every who disagrees with you on this point with "The Wii-U is not for You!"

Quote from: Adrock

Of course, they can. However, I think it's better to approach them by pretending that they can't.

Quote:

If Nintendo should approach groups of consumers based on poor stereotypes of the most vocal within that group, then Nintendo should just assume that all hardcore gamers are whiny twits that will never be happy with Nintendo no matter what, so why bother doing anything for them anyway?

They should bother because the hardcore gamers spend lots of money.  They are whiney, but like Ian said earlier, Nintendo has really pushed that group away in the past.  I don't think their going to get mulligans on decisions until they show they are bringing something significant to the table. 

smallsharkbigbiteJune 10, 2012

Quote from: RedBlue

Xbox 360 320GB hard drive 129.99 at walmart for the same price you can pick up a USB 3.0 2TB hard drive at walmart. So for the same price I could pick up 6 times more space for my Wii-U. I'll stick to non-proprietary hard drives.  :cool;

LOL, nice.  Alright, if we are going to play that game, the 250 gb with Kinect and 2 game bundle was on sale for $259 this last holiday.  So where are you going to buy a 250 gb hd, kinect, and 2 game bundle for $59?

This is another reason I like built ins.  While it may not always be a deal at MSRP, it'll go on sale for significantly less later. 

smallsharkbigbiteJune 10, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

Casual consumers are too confused by external storage, but offering them multiple SKUs isn't too confusing?

Do you KNOW how many customers asked what the difference between the black and white Wii systems was? :D

Moms and dads typically buy systems.  I expect the teenage users to be much more technilogical.  But honestly, it's not that bad of a question for people who came from the 360.  How many different versions of the 360 were there?  Some were better with RROD, some had different ports, etc.  And the black Wii wasn't out too long before they removed Gamecube compatibility.  Knowing changes can occur and asking about them doesn't seem to be ignorant to me.  Especially for people that don't go to gaming sites. 

smallsharkbigbiteJune 10, 2012

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

As it stands I'm pretty confident the Wii U will be $350 at launch. With an internal hard drive or SSD, that would be up to at least $400. This is a compromise on Nintendo's part to keep the price as low as they can.

Consumer cost does not follow actual cost of the machine.  Nintendo kept the Wii at $250 when the 360 was $200 and the PS3 was $250.  They did it to increase profits, not because the Wii cost $200 to manufacture. 

But that's the biggest problem I have with the Wii-U.  The Wii-U is basically a 3ds (potentially) with your TV representing the top screen.  The PS3 comes with a bunch more for $250.  The xbox 360 comes with a bunch more for $300.  For $350, I want to see that the Wii-U is better than the current gen or at least on-par.  The only thing the Wii-U has that can be conceived as better is the touchscreen. 

The Wii was big because nobody saw motion controls before.  Isn't Ipad 4 coming out?  Aren't we on version 5 of the DS?  People have seen touch controls and prefer $.99 games with them.  I just don't think people will be impressed with the Wii-U.  I could be wrong, analysts said the Wii was doomed and while it's fizzled, you can't exactly call it a failure. 

Plus, being cheap isn't always a good thing in the eye of the consumer.  N64 lost to the PS1 largely due to the stupid cartridge decision.  What if the Gamecube would have used real DVDs instead of mini, and played DVDs and cost $300 at the get-go?  I was in college at the time the Gamecube was out and you have no idea how many people viewed it as inferior to the PS2.  Would more games have came to the Gamecube if it would have used full DVDs and been able to make quick ports?  Would people view it as equal to the xbox/ps2 since it cos the same?  Would people look at it as a way to get a cheap dvd player like they did the PS2?  We'll never know, but most people think you get what you pay for and always being the cheapest make people think Nintendo develops cheap toys. 

DarthBradyJune 10, 2012

Quote from: Dahne

7 years is not a decade. 10 years is a decade. Over a decade means over 10 years. Learn English. You realize that Nintendo markets to different audiences. One audience wouldn't really care for that a lot of memory on a game system, remember the 4GB 360 model? If you care so much about storage, just buy a harddrive yourself instead of asking Nintendo to overprice the Wii U because you wanted them to add an HDD.

My English is fine. Perhaps you should learn research, and perhaps proof-reading or logic. The PS2 released in 2000; that's over a decade just as i said. The PS2 came equipped with an internal slot for adding a HDD. It may not of supported any games at the release, but the option was there for when you needed it- out of the box. As for using the 4GB 360 Model, I complained they were not offering internal HDD support"out of the box" as the PS2 did - a very successful console. The 4GB Xbox 360 offers the same option. It may have come with less internal flash, but it still had internal HDD support from the very minute any consumer purchased the console, if the consumer chooses to do so. Your logic, as well as your insults - are flawed.I am entitled to my opinion just as anyone else is. If you don't like just keep scrolling past it like the rest of the internet, or do some research to base on a valid opinion of your own. Ignorant insults directed at post comments add nothing to the actual topic unless perhaps the comment deviated or provided invalid information without source.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 10, 2012

First, smallsharkbigbite... did you really just quadruple post?

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

And the steering wheel?  Personally, 250 gb is enough for me and I'd rather have the built in option.


8GB is more than enough for most people and I'd rather have the removable memory option.

Quote:

The bundle has been on sale often for $50 off so if the $47.73 that you're paying for the hard drive is a hold up, wait a few months and you won't be.


Wait... we're doing sale prices now?  Because I know the 4GB model was on sale some time ago with a free $100 Gift Card.

Also, if we're bargain hunting, I bet I could find Forza 4, a 360 headset and the steering wheel on the cheap once the racing bundle has been out for awhile.

Quote:

Also, the point is they give you the option.  And since you're so technical, you can buy an adapter and use the any existing hard drive you have laying around.


There is no official way that I'm aware of to use "any existing hard drive" with the 360.  Unofficial ways could end up getting your console banned from XBox Live. 

Quote:

I never said casual players are stupid.  I said they're lazy and don't want a bunch of cords laying around.  I think a built in option or at least a bay makes this significantly better.


I really don't get the connection between being lazy and not wanting cords laying around.
Also, I disagree with your idea that they don't want cords laying around.  How many times has the complaint came up about the Wii and Wii U not having a network jack/being WiFi only?  If people don't like cords, then this should be a good thing.

Quote:

I also did not say I want the Wii U to fail. I just don't see the point in responding to every who disagrees with you on this point with "The Wii-U is not for You!"


Didn't say you did, bub.  Also pretty sure I never told you that the Wii U isn't for you, bub.

Quote:

They should bother because the hardcore gamers spend lots of money.  They are whiney, but like Ian said earlier, Nintendo has really pushed that group away in the past.  I don't think their going to get mulligans on decisions until they show they are bringing something significant to the table.


Again, if they're not going to be happy with Nintendo no matter what, then why should Nintendo try doing anything to please them?

Remember Twilight Princess?  It was the hardcore, super realistic Zelda that "everyone" wanted after Wind Waker...  Yet the sales didn't touch Wind Waker's performance.

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

And the black Wii wasn't out too long before they removed Gamecube compatibility.


If you consider two full years "not too long", then sure.

Quote:

Knowing changes can occur and asking about them doesn't seem to be ignorant to me.  Especially for people that don't go to gaming sites.


You've done a great job convincing me that multiple SKUs doesn't confuse the consumer.

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

Plus, being cheap isn't always a good thing in the eye of the consumer.  N64 lost to the PS1 largely due to the stupid cartridge decision.

errrr... Carts weren't "cheap".  In fact, they increased costs for the system and the games in comparison to a CD reader/discs.

Quote:

I was in college at the time the Gamecube was out and you have no idea how many people viewed it as inferior to the PS2.

Doing a great job convincing me that the younger generation is more technological...

Quote:

We'll never know, but most people think you get what you pay for and always being the cheapest make people think Nintendo develops cheap toys.

Doing a great job convincing me that hardcore gamers will ever change their opinion and be happy with anything Nintendo does.

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

This is another reason I like built ins.  While it may not always be a deal at MSRP, it'll go on sale for significantly less later.


Because removable storage never, ever goes on sale. Or something.

AdrockJune 10, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

There is no official way that I'm aware of to use "any existing hard drive" with the 360.  Unofficial ways could end up getting your console banned from XBox Live.

I heard that the Slim model accepts 2.5" hard drives which are housed in this really chintzy "shell." You can just take out the hard drive and put any 2.5" hard drive you want in the shell as long as you formatted the new hard drive first. Apparently, you don't even really need the shell as long as you're okay with the hard drive "hovering" since the drive bay/dock is shaped like the shell. I wasn't aware that you got banned from Xbox Live for not using a 1st party hard drive. I'm not saying you're wrong. Far from it as I don't own a 360 and never tried it; I'm not sure either way.

I would have liked the Wii U to be set up this way. I can live with the external hard drive option. Maybe Nintendo will redesign the console down the line to accept regular 2.5" hard drives in a drive bay. Probably not but a girl can dream...

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 10, 2012

http://forums.xbox.com/xbox_forums/xbox_support/f/7/p/192927/1005001.aspx

Official answer from the official XBox 360 forums, as recent as this Jan.

tl;dr version - Using unauthorized hardware/software with your 360 may result an a ban from XBox live.  There are no authorized third-party 360 Hard Drives.

ShyGuyJune 10, 2012

As I've said elsewhere, Nintendo could bundle in an SD card or come out for sale with an official external hard drive. Although the seem to like solid state, so an external SSD drive of significant size would be pricey. Maybe an official Nintendo thumb drive?

A 32gb SDHC card or 32gb thumb drive retails $20-$30 that would give you 40gb storage total.
A 64gb thumb drive retails $45-$65 that would give you 72gb storage total
A 128gb thumb drive retails $90-$200 that would give you 132gb storage total
A 250gb thumb drive retails $50-70 that would give you 258gb storage total
A 1tb external hard drive retails $99-$150 that would give you more storage than you would ever need.

The Wii U has four USB ports, if you can double up, you could get a 32gb SD card and two 32gb thumb drives to give you 104gb of storage for as low as $60, purchased as you need it for $20 a pop.

A 250gb third party 360 hard price retails $70-$90 but you get greater versatility because many more devices use SD and usb storage over the proprietary 360 hard drive.

I hope Nintendo does it right so that any number of devices plugged in works seamlessly, but I wouldn't count on it.

AdrockJune 10, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

http://forums.xbox.com/xbox_forums/xbox_support/f/7/p/192927/1005001.aspx

Official answer from the official XBox 360 forums, as recent as this Jan.

tl;dr version - Using unauthorized hardware/software with your 360 may result an a ban from XBox live.  There are no authorized third-party 360 Hard Drives.

Oh, that. I remember reading about that before. I always thought that was specifically for mods and cheat devices. It does say (among other things) that they may "cancel your account and your ability to access the Service" which is just ambiguous enough to cover their asses. Didn't Microsoft also ban some chick for identifying as a lesbian on Xbox Live (only to later say it was a "mistake")? Microsoft's policies don't seem terribly black and white. I wonder how many people got banned for using their own formatted hard drive with no game mods or pirated data, meaning for all intents and purposes it was just being used as a hard drive. I wonder how often Microsoft specifically checks if their users' hard drives are 1st party, if at all.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 10, 2012

Yeah, it's not a definitive ban, but it is a possibility...

Regardless, if the arguement is that consumers are stupid/lazy/don't know the internet, how is any of these options easier than just plugging in a UsB cable?

AdrockJune 10, 2012

It's not, in my opinion. To clarify, I never meant to say that it was. I was proposing that it might be better for Nintendo in the long run collectively, in terms of core gamers, 3rd parties and so on. Easier, though? I don't know about that. Different SKUs is, by definition, more confusing. Instead of "Oh, this is the thing I buy." It's "Which of these things do I buy?" A drive bay is a nice option and I still think it should have been there because existing isn't complicated; making use of it might be more complicated than an external USB hard drive. Don't you have to format a regular hard drive? I don't know how to do that off the top of my head, but I could certainly google it or watch a tutorial on YouTube. That's an extra thing I have to do. I've never used an external hard drive, but I've never had to format a USB thumb drive. Do they work the same way? I imagine you just plug it in.

ShyGuyJune 10, 2012

almost all thumb drives come preformatted.

Quote from: ShyGuy

As I've said elsewhere, Nintendo could bundle in an SD card

Actually, you just made me realize that Nintendo has an extremely easy way to "up" the internal storage for future SKUs of the system by just packing in an SD card. It's not unprecedented since Nintendo packed in a 2GB SD card with every 3DS.

Chozo GhostJune 10, 2012

Quote from: ShyGuy

almost all thumb drives come preformatted.

This is true, but they might not necessarily be correctly formatted in a filesystem that the console will be able to accept. FAT32 seems to be the most widely accepted filesystem for devices, but this filesystem can't support really huge volume sizes, so newer cards have to be in something else, and not every device will necessarily support it.

ShyGuyJune 10, 2012

NTFS or EXFAT are the two file systems most commonly used over 32gb.

FAT32 can technically go up to 16TB, it's just that Microsoft doesn't allow that in its formatting program. Also, homebrew on the Wii could support NTFS, so I hope Nintendo can work something out in that regard.

VariantX7June 10, 2012

I cant find fault in this at all, as an owner of an xbox360, id rather just be free to apply whatever storage solution I want for my console.  Would be nice to buy a external 2TB HDD and never worry about storage throughout the entire life of the console.

DonnyKDJune 11, 2012

Wow, just when I though that NWR was the most adult Nintendo forum since this year's E3, we get c*** like this.

People saying that "casual gamers" are too stupid or lazy to set up their own HDD (yeah, because anyone who isn't a gamer sucks at every type of computer tech ever!), people saying that Nintendo can't win against the PS3 and 360 because Nintendo won't unnecessarily price their console too high...

There are definitely people who are too stupid or lazy to set up their own hard drive. I'd bet there isn't a ton of crossover between that demographic and the one that will have much interest in buying a lot of eShop stuff, though. This is a risk on Nintendo's part, but a calculated one.

Quote from: DonnyKD

people saying that Nintendo can't win against the PS3 and 360 because Nintendo won't unnecessarily price their console too high...

Where did someone say that? Actually, I'd argue that one of the reasons the Wii was able to "win" (install base wise) versus the PS3 and 360 WAS because Nintendo refused to price their console very high.

AdrockJune 11, 2012

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

There are definitely people who are too stupid or lazy to set up their own hard drive. I'd bet there isn't a ton of crossover between that demographic and the one that will have much interest in buying a lot of eShop stuff, though. This is a risk on Nintendo's part, but a calculated one.

I definitely agree with this.  I suppose Nintendo's thinking is that if people really want a hard drive, they'll get one. Hopefully, 3rd parties feel the same way and won't be apprehensive about supporting the platform. Still, this is the same reason why I think additional hard drive options, while technically more complicated, wouldn't be a problem per se. It just gives people more options.

CericJune 11, 2012

Congrats on making it to 6 pages!

Anyway, Here We GOOOO!

Quote from: Adrock

...
Still, this is the same reason why I think additional hard drive options, while technically more complicated, wouldn't be a problem per se. It just gives people more options.

More options = Complication and Complication = More Variables  and More Variables = More Cost.  Programming wise adding in another place to add storage makes things more complicated.  Which in the short and long term will cost more for Nintendo. 

I know some really smart people who can do things like design rockets, right complex code, etc., but can't hook up there home theater system.  Even smart people can blank on areas. 

External hard drives are easily the lowest common denominator.  Its hard to find anyone over the age of 2 that can't plug in something to a USB port with minimal instructions  As long as the WiiU is smart enough to accept most of the common formats it won't even need to pop up and ask if you want to dedicate the device to the WiiU.  What I'm really hoping is Nintendo takes the Windows Home Server approach and when you connect the drive it just becomes more storage.  Same with the SD card.  You only have to mess with the specific where if you want to.

I think it is silly to think that Nintendo themselves is going to limit Downloads to just 8gb to begin with.  They have a 20gb+ disc there making for the system.  Nintendo tends to not have things they don't plan on personally using with few exceptions, CPP being one.  They also made a commitment to have there games up for download.  Multiple Sku confusion is a problem for Nintendo state Target Demographic (Everyone).

What I'm really hoping for still is a shell that is a glorified additional temperature controlled cooler, USB hub, and harddrive inclosure.  That way people who want this functionality can just purchase a snap in shell and use that.  This wouldn't be to complicated for the people that can handle procuring and installing a harddrive.  That and I love my slightly loud temperature controlled external fans for my PS3.

AdrockJune 11, 2012

I don't really know what you're saying here. I've admitted on a number of occasions that more options is more complicated by definition. You even quoted me saying so. What is this? I don't even... Are you saying that Nintendo should limit options because it costs them more not to? If so, fine. However, a lot of things increase cost, but that doesn't mean they can't be beneficial.

CericJune 11, 2012

Quote from: Adrock

I don't really know what you're saying here. I've admitted on a number of occasions that more options is more complicated by definition. You even quoted me saying so. What is this? I don't even... Are you saying that Nintendo should limit options because it costs them more not to? If so, fine. However, a lot of things increase cost, but that doesn't mean they can't be beneficial.

I was just using you as a jumping off point.  It really boils down to that Nintendo has found this to be the optimal point for cost vs benefit in this case.  Which I agree with.

Chozo GhostJune 11, 2012

Quote from: Ceric

Its hard to find anyone over the age of 2 that can't plug in something to a USB port with minimal instructions

http://www.hark.com/clips/dbyhvsvjpw-what-is-a-paperclip

CericJune 11, 2012

Quote from: Chozo

Quote from: Ceric

Its hard to find anyone over the age of 2 that can't plug in something to a USB port with minimal instructions

http://www.hark.com/clips/dbyhvsvjpw-what-is-a-paperclip

I'll bet you I could even get that guy the ability to plug in a USB plug to a USB port.

smallsharkbigbiteJune 11, 2012

Quote from: UncleBob

First, smallsharkbigbite... did you really just quadruple post?

I don't get on much.  I didn't duplicate data.

I fell into your misdirect though.  Whether you feel Microsoft gouges customers is irrelevant.  Nintendo doesn't follow the competition in other areas so they don't have to gouge for a harddrive.  I get half of your argument.  A small HD costs almost nothing.  I can buy a 120 gb WD harddrive off Amazon for $36.  Nintendo when they order 50 million can probably get them for <$20.  Also, they could go 80 or 60 gb and use a different manufacturer to save money.  Substitute out the 8 gig of flash and you are looking at a net cost of $0-$10 to add a harddrive.  Flash makes sense in an Ipod where there is no optical drive.  Doesn't make sense in a game console because the optical drive is the data limiting factor.  So I get the fact that a harddrive doesn't cost much.  Don't get why it then shouldn't be used?

Quote:

8GB is more than enough for most people and I'd rather have the removable memory option.

This is where I strongly disagree with you.  You are basing your info off of two gimped online systems (Wii and 3DS).  The PS2 had 20% of it's users get online, 360 has about 60%, we are reaching an age where it's expected that an electronic have wireless.  More people will use online next generation.  And none of the consoles you are comparing are high def or have full sized games online for download. 

A few examples: 

1.  Exclusive games: NBA Jam onfire edition is 900 mb and reasonably priced.  Tons more games like this, some bigger.  If you're online and that's the only way to get the game, don't know why you'd pass up good games.

2.  Game patches.  GT5 has like 3 gb of patches.  Yeah, it'd be nice if they shipped a complete game, but they've added a bunch to this game.  And basically every game I put in my ps3 has some patch to update the game and most of them are sizely. 

3.  Demos/other online things.  If you're online and it's free, why not download?  Demo's and videos online can be several gigs in size.  And there could be new things to online next generation.  That's the point of a new generation, who knows what interactivity could be done. 

Also, the cost really doesn't matter.  If Nintendo can get people to start paying for things they'll make several times the cost of a harddrive.  Getting people to just download one retail game (which won't happen with 8 gb) will save them at least $20 in retail fees, shipping fees, and physical production fees.  And you can't resell that game.

For comparison sake, I have about 10 WiiWare games and about 50 vc games downloaded for a total size of about 1 gb.  On my PS3, I have not downloaded a full retail game.  I have about 30 downloaded games, patches, and save files come to about 65 gb. 

Quote:

I really don't get the connection between being lazy and not wanting cords laying around.
Also, I disagree with your idea that they don't want cords laying around.  How many times has the complaint came up about the Wii and Wii U not having a network jack/being WiFi only?  If people don't like cords, then this should be a good thing.

I see the only viable solution as having a usb hard drive, which requires 2 additional cables (to Wii and to Power) and addtional space on the shelf.  I don't see that as a good thing. 

Quote:

Remember Twilight Princess?  It was the hardcore, super realistic Zelda that "everyone" wanted after Wind Waker...  Yet the sales didn't touch Wind Waker's performance.

Ignoring Wii sales to make a point? 

Quote:

If you consider two full years "not too long", then sure.

The point is almost all electronic devices have multiple versions and some changes within the versions.  I don't think it adds consumer confusion to have multiple versions because if you buy anything you're used to it by now. 

Quote:

errrr... Carts weren't "cheap".  In fact, they increased costs for the system and the games in comparison to a CD reader/discs.

Yeah, my point was storage lost the N64 war.  Nintendo's response wasn't let's fix the storage issue, as all of the next consoles they've made have had gimped storage.  The focus on being cheap now instead of matching standard features.  When a console is cheaper, people wonder why.  And when the answer is they cut standard features, they aren't impressed. 

This is all opinion based, the Wii-U may or may not add a better storage option and may or may not be successful.  Too many variables to determine which reasons are why it is successful or not.  Feel free to chop up my reply and add sarcastic comments.  What I'd like to see is a thread in 6 years and see if the people that say 8 gb is sufficient for them found that to be the case. 

tendoboy1984June 11, 2012

I find it highly ironic that cartridges on home consoles are deemed as archaic due to their expensiveness and complexity, yet they are still being used widely on mobile devices.


Heck, even Sony dropped the PSP's disc media and switched to carts for the Vita.


So it's ok for handhelds to use carts, yet on consoles it's a big no-no? Such hypocrisy.

OblivionJune 11, 2012

Quote from: tendoboy1984

Such hypocrisy.

Um what

Fairly certain they haven't gone to cartridges on home consoles because it isn't cost effective yet.

The flash memory cards used in current handhelds are not the same thing as old-school cartridges. Also, they would be a lot more expensive on consoles due to the greater memory capacity required. The Wii U uses 25 GB discs; to do that with flash memory would be far, far more expensive than the ~2 GB cards in use on the 3DS.

BlackNMild2k1June 11, 2012

Quote from: tendoboy1984

I find it highly ironic that cartridges on home consoles are deemed as archaic due to their expensiveness and complexity, yet they are still being used widely on mobile devices.


Heck, even Sony dropped the PSP's disc media and switched to carts for the Vita.


So it's ok for handhelds to use carts, yet on consoles it's a big no-no? Such hypocrisy.

You forget that power requirements of a handheld necessitate the need for low power consumption. Powering a spinning disc is not power efficient. Using a flash cart with no moving parts is power efficient.

PSV may have a 4-5 hr battery life now, but if they went with UMD again, it would be more like 2-3hrs tops

Chozo GhostJune 11, 2012

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

The flash memory cards used in current handhelds are not the same thing as old-school cartridges.

QFT. The old school cartridges were basically circuit boards, so they were a lot more expensive to manufacture. The newer stuff is just flash memory which is a lot different.

And as for why optical media isn't used in mobile devices I think that's pretty obvious. Optical drives require a lot more energy (meaning they drain batteries faster), take up more space, and can be screwed up by the device being jolted.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 12, 2012

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

I fell into your misdirect though.  Whether you feel Microsoft gouges customers is irrelevant.  Nintendo doesn't follow the competition in other areas so

...they should have to follow the competition in these areas.  Or something.

Quote:

This is where I strongly disagree with you.  You are basing your info off of two gimped online systems (Wii and 3DS).  The PS2 had 20% of it's users get online, 360 has about 60%,

Interesting fact there about the 360.

I'd love to see actual sales on the "core" versions of the 360 vs. the "pro"/"elite" versions.

Because I know we've sold a lot more of the cheaper ones with smaller hard drives and I've never heard a complaint.

Quote:

1.  Exclusive games: NBA Jam onfire edition is 900 mb and reasonably priced.  Tons more games like this, some bigger.  If you're online and that's the only way to get the game, don't know why you'd pass up good games.

Interesting.

Quick search (although the source is VGChartz - if someone can find an alternate source, please do.) pegs the PS3's tie-in ratio at 9.16... so at 900 MB, that's just barely over 8 GB (8.05GB, to be exact).

Quote:

2.  Game patches.  GT5 has like 3 gb of patches.  Yeah, it'd be nice if they shipped a complete game, but they've added a bunch to this game.  And basically every game I put in my ps3 has some patch to update the game and most of them are sizely.

Yeah... my one time playing a PS3, the first hour was literally spent downloading patches (seriously, I got a text from a friend right when we started... when it was finally done getting everything, I looked at the time again).

If the trade off for not having an overpriced hard drive pre-installed is no patches... I'll take that.

Quote:

3.  Demos/other online things.  If you're online and it's free, why not download?  Demo's and videos online can be several gigs in size.

Delete 'em when you're done.  They're demos.

Quote:

For comparison sake, I have about 10 WiiWare games and about 50 vc games downloaded for a total size of about 1 gb.  On my PS3, I have not downloaded a full retail game.  I have about 30 games, patches, and save files come to about 65 gb.

And for you, you have the option of external storage.  Isn't that awesome? 

Let me throw this one at you.  Let's say you have a 360... Without external storage, what's the maximum amount of data you can store on the system without potentially breaking any laws or getting your console banned as you previously suggested?

What's the largest internal hard drive you can get for your PS3?  Has anyone released any PS3 compatible 1TB drives yet?

With an external memory solution, depending on how it's implemented, I could, in theory, have a url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822165298]12 TB hard drive hooked up for enough storage to hold every Wii U game, video, and demo to ever be released in digital format.  Heck, in theory, I could hook up four of these suckers to my Wii U.

So... how's an external solution better?

Quote:

I see the only viable solution as having a usb hard drive, which requires 2 additional cables (to Wii and to Power) and addtional space on the shelf.  I don't see that as a good thing.

A) Still not sure what this has to do with being "lazy"
B) There are hard drives (up to 1TB, as far as I'm aware) that are powered via USB and don't require a power cable.
C)  Judging by what we know of the Wii U's size, the system plus an external hard drive will likely still be smaller than a PS3.
 

Quote:

Ignoring Wii sales to make a point?

 

How am I ignoring Wii sales?  When the Wii sold 4 times as many systems as the GCN, shouldn't the Wii version of Twilight Princess sold more than Wind Waker by leaps and bounds?

Quote:

Yeah, my point was storage lost the N64 war.  Nintendo's response wasn't let's fix the storage issue, as all of the next consoles they've made have had gimped storage.

...gimped proprietary  storage... which likely cost more...

Quote:

The focus on being cheap now instead of matching standard features.  When a console is cheaper, people wonder why.  And when the answer is they cut standard features, they aren't impressed.

 

This is a line of crap.  None of Nintendo's disc storage issues were a result of cutting costs or being "cheaper".  Nintendo chose carts because of the load times on CDs and for anti-piracy measures.  They went with the custom mini-DVDs on the 'cube for - again - anti-piracy measures.  And with custom DVDs (that hold the same capacity as the 360), again... anti-piracy measures.

Quote:

What I'd like to see is a thread in 6 years and see if the people that say 8 gb is sufficient for them found that to be the case.

People who are okay with 8GB aren't likely to troll NWR forums...

As far as the whole "confusing" angle goes, I'm certain there will be companies that sell hard drives branded as Wii U compatible, preformatted and ready to plug and play right out of the box. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Nintendo did it themselves. Sure, you could probably get a better deal doing it yourself, and you'll have that option, but those people will be accomodated.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 12, 2012

While I'm sure it would have been overpriced, when the Wii was said to be compatible with external Hard Drives, I was expecting someone to release a new version of the stand that had the hard drive inside of it...

tendoboy1984June 12, 2012

Quote from: Chozo

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

The flash memory cards used in current handhelds are not the same thing as old-school cartridges.

QFT. The old school cartridges were basically circuit boards, so they were a lot more expensive to manufacture. The newer stuff is just flash memory which is a lot different.

And as for why optical media isn't used in mobile devices I think that's pretty obvious. Optical drives require a lot more energy (meaning they drain batteries faster), take up more space, and can be screwed up by the device being jolted.

Ok, so why don't the manufacturers just use flash memory cards for console games? Discs and disc drives are fragile and they generate heat. If these flash memory cards are so efficient for handheld games, then they should be used more in home consoles.

Because, as I said, at the capacity required for modern console games it would be much too expensive to outweigh the negative aspects of discs. 2 GB cards for 3DS games are one thing, but with PS3 and Wii U discs holding upwards of 25 GB, the sheer volume of optical media at far cheaper prices can't be beat.

tendoboy1984June 12, 2012

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Because, as I said, at the capacity required for modern console games it would be much too expensive to outweigh the negative aspects of discs. 2 GB cards for 3DS games are one thing, but with PS3 and Wii U discs holding upwards of 25 GB, the sheer volume of optical media at far cheaper prices can't be beat.

Then game developers shouldn't make their games that big. There are thousands of smaller games on PSN, Xbox Live, iOS, etc. Games don't have to be that big to be good.


In other words, "size doesn't matter".

broodwarsJune 12, 2012

Quote from: tendoboy1984

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Because, as I said, at the capacity required for modern console games it would be much too expensive to outweigh the negative aspects of discs. 2 GB cards for 3DS games are one thing, but with PS3 and Wii U discs holding upwards of 25 GB, the sheer volume of optical media at far cheaper prices can't be beat.

Then game developers shouldn't make their games that big. There are thousands of smaller games on PSN, Xbox Live, iOS, etc. Games don't have to be that big to be good.


In other words, "size doesn't matter".

Yeah, let's see if you're still saying that after you've actually played AAA HD games like Assassin's Creed 3, Tomb Raider, etc.  Or better yet, let's see if you're still saying that after a company like Retro releases something like a new Metroid, crammed on a dual-layer disc with hours of voice acting; gorgeous environments; and highly detailed character models.

Quote from: tendoboy1984

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Because, as I said, at the capacity required for modern console games it would be much too expensive to outweigh the negative aspects of discs. 2 GB cards for 3DS games are one thing, but with PS3 and Wii U discs holding upwards of 25 GB, the sheer volume of optical media at far cheaper prices can't be beat.

Then game developers shouldn't make their games that big. There are thousands of smaller games on PSN, Xbox Live, iOS, etc. Games don't have to be that big to be good.


In other words, "size doesn't matter".

Yes, because putting arbitrary limitations on development is a great way to attract support for your hardware.

ThePermJune 12, 2012

so uh....the wii u is going to have a lot of RAM right? more so than ps3 and xbox 360.....?

so do you need as much internal space anymore?

The current convention is that you stream content off the HDD rather than disc so it runs faster. On ps3/360 you need a high transfer rate between the HDD so that games run worth a damn, but if theres more RAM on Wii U, you could put a lot more content on the RAM, so it wouldn't matter if the data was stored on a drive with a slower transfer rate. You could keep a bunch of stuff in memory without the need to stream it off a hard drive.

tendoboy1984June 12, 2012

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Quote from: tendoboy1984

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Because, as I said, at the capacity required for modern console games it would be much too expensive to outweigh the negative aspects of discs. 2 GB cards for 3DS games are one thing, but with PS3 and Wii U discs holding upwards of 25 GB, the sheer volume of optical media at far cheaper prices can't be beat.

Then game developers shouldn't make their games that big. There are thousands of smaller games on PSN, Xbox Live, iOS, etc. Games don't have to be that big to be good.


In other words, "size doesn't matter".

Yes, because putting arbitrary limitations on development is a great way to attract support for your hardware.

Xbox Live, iOS, and PSN have size limits, yet they still get plenty of developer support.


And I was saying it would be much easier for console games to come on flash memory cards instead of fragile discs. There are 32 GB (and larger) cards, so it wouldn't be a huge problem.


Game systems already come with internal flash storage, so why not use that same type of storage for the game media? It's more reliable and faster than discs.

Chozo GhostJune 12, 2012

Quote from: tendoboy1984

And I was saying it would be much easier for console games to come on flash memory cards instead of fragile discs. There are 32 GB (and larger) cards, so it wouldn't be a huge problem.

Except in terms of cost.

Quote from: tendoboy1984

Game systems already come with internal flash storage, so why not use that same type of storage for the game media? It's more reliable and faster than discs.

What part of an optical disc being only about 10 cents worth of plastic do you not understand? Flash memory is superior in a lot of ways, but it costs more, and unless its a handheld it makes no sense to use flash memory. The reason its used for handhelds is because the disadvantages of an optical drive are a really big deal and so the extra cost is justified, but on a console which is plugged into a wall and doesn't need to be so small it can fit in someone's pockets the negatives of optical media don't matter so much, so in those cases optical media wins out.

Older consoles used cartridges because optical drives either hadn't been invented yet, or were too cost prohibitive. But from the PS1 onward the cost of optical drives came down enough that it made sense. It still doesn't make much sense for a handheld, and that's why aside from the PSP we will probably never seen an optical drive based handheld ever again.

AdrockJune 12, 2012

Quote from: tendoboy1984

Game systems already come with internal flash storage, so why not use that same type of storage for the game media? It's more reliable and faster than discs.

This has already been answered. It's more expensive. Flash memory will always be more expensive than disc because it costs more to make them.

It's nice that Wii U discs start at 25GB per layer though I doubt many games will need that unless developers start haphazardly using uncompressed data just because they can. I believe 3DS can handle up to 8GB cards. I'm not sure about Vita but it's at least 8GB. Apparently, Blazblue is the largest Vita game at 3.32GB. Nintendo probably could have gone with 4GB-16GB cards to start (32GB later) for Wii U, depending on a game's needs. However, and here's the most important part, 3rd parties may see it as an additional barrier for supporting Wii U. There are pros to using cards but the one major con is 3rd parties could just throw their hands up and say, "Fuck this. A disc costs us like a half-penny and a coupon at Starbucks and you want us to spend $X per card?" As a gamer, I love the pros of cards. I'm a big proponent for cards though I've changed my tune slightly. Sure, the big 3rd parties don't seem to be complaining about using cards on DS, 3DS, and Vita. They might if cards were used on Wii U. Unless Nintendo could cut them a deal and keep prices lower and ensure supplies remain steady to high, they're probably better off having Panasonic continue to press discs for them.

YmeegodJune 12, 2012

Depends on the gamer and how many games he/she plans to download and how many full retail games will require space.  There's are some games out there that eats 20+ GB just by themselves, Rage anyone but even without that there's been plenty of game "patches" or updates that can eat up 1GB easily (my SF4 comes to mind).  So you'll either have to buy multiple SD cards or just one large HD.

In terms of pricing one 320GB harddrive is like $40-50 vs 2 32GB (64GB total) SD cards for the same price.

Some people might not fill up 64GB will a couple of indie games and patches but there's plenty of people out there that would fill that within a month or 2. 

McDaniel-77June 14, 2012

I'll save my Wii U games on USB-SSD or 32 GB SD Card.
When I copy all my Wii stuff over to Wii U there will be 6-7 GB left. If you consider a Wii U game as big as a DVD game or a Steam download game:
Diablo III is close to 8 GB
Crysis is close to 8 GB
Renegade Ops is close to 3 GB
From Dust is close to 2 GB
Legend of Grimrock is 0.8 GB
Hard Reset is around 2,2 GB
...
There is space for 10-40 games on a 32 GB SD Card - 30 bucks today.

ets11296June 23, 2012

at least since its low memory, the price will be lower most likely
;D

LudicrousDa3veJune 26, 2012

What a discussion, wow. I can see the worries about less tech savvy customers having trouble with different storage solutions. It is still manageable, though; and as a tech-centric guy who is constantly making space on his 360's 60GB proprietary HD, the option to just buy an affordable 1TB external or whatever is extremely attractive.
  There will be plenty of things to eat up plenty of space, and I'm sure Nintendo plans on informing their users. Maybe not always in the smartest ways, but they will.  ;)

tendoboy1984June 27, 2012

Quote from: MegaByte]Also,

How are these homebrew guys able to program stuff that isn't supported by the console? Are they all smarter than Nintendo's own engineers?

Nintendo could do everything they've done, and much more, they just choose not to.

Chozo GhostJune 27, 2012

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Nintendo could do everything they've done, and much more, they just choose not to.

I think this ties in with that argument in another thread about Nintendo being Lazy.

It's important to distinguish between the developers and the decision makers. For instance, Nintendo already made a hard drive system for Wii that works very much like the homebrew solution, but they limited it to use in hospitals.

tendoboy1984July 17, 2012

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Because, as I said, at the capacity required for modern console games it would be much too expensive to outweigh the negative aspects of discs.

Here's a solution, make your games smaller. There isn't a rule that says console games have to be cinematic epics that must be over 8 GB. I would prefer having smaller games that can be finished quickly than having to slog through a 20 hour interactive movie.


Remember when games were just games?

YmeegodJuly 17, 2012

You really haven't been keeping up with indie games have you?  There's quite a few now using UE3 and just about all of them eat memory like it's candy.

With only 7GBs usable, you'll only going fit an handful of games and nintendo's releasing all it's stuff digital and there's going be DLC on top of that.  For example, MW3 map packs eat something like 2-3 GB's alone. 
Better off planning an purchasing and external HD. 



tendoboy1984July 17, 2012

A large majority of games on iOS, Android, Xbox Live Arcade, etc. are under 1 GB. If indie developers are ok with making small games, then why can't bigger publishers be satisfied with making small games?


Spending millions of dollars to make a grandiose movie-style epic, and not selling enough copies to recoup those costs, is what's bankrupting so many studios this gen.


You don't have this problem in the movie industry because all the major film companies (WB, Fox, Universal, Sony Pictures, Disney) are huge global conglomerates. And they can afford those huge budgets.


In the video game industry, only a select few companies have that advantage (EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Nintendo).

iOS games are small because they don't have the option of being big when they can't get away with charging more than 99 cents. Similarly, you can't make a massive epic for $15 a pop on XBLA.

As has been pointed out numerous times, artificially restricting developers for no reason is probably the stupidest thing Nintendo could do if they're trying to improve third party relations.

broodwarsJuly 17, 2012

Not to mention we DO have "smaller" games in the downloadable titles, which are usually somewhere between 300 MB - 1.5 GB in size.  When you work in HD, you have big file sizes.  That's just how HD models and textures are.

tendoboy1984July 17, 2012

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

As has been pointed out numerous times, artificially restricting developers for no reason is probably the stupidest thing Nintendo could do if they're trying to improve third party relations.

It worked for Apple and Google.

Quote from: tendoboy1984

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

As has been pointed out numerous times, artificially restricting developers for no reason is probably the stupidest thing Nintendo could do if they're trying to improve third party relations.

It worked for Apple and Google.

If you can't understand that Nintendo faces a different situation than the freaking smartphone platforms then you're beyond hopeless.

tendoboy1984July 17, 2012

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Quote from: tendoboy1984

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

As has been pointed out numerous times, artificially restricting developers for no reason is probably the stupidest thing Nintendo could do if they're trying to improve third party relations.

It worked for Apple and Google.

If you can't understand that Nintendo faces a different situation than the freaking smartphone platforms then you're beyond hopeless.

3rd party support is 3rd party support. If Apple and Google could convince 3rd-party developers to support their platforms, with the limited storage and all, then why can't Nintendo? Look how much support Xbox Live Arcade has, and many of those games are comparable to iOS and Android games.



I get what you're saying. There shouldn't be a size limit for developers. But that still hasn't stopped them from making games for Xbox Live Arcade, iOS, Android, etc. All game systems are limited by the size of their physical media, and no one really complains about that.

As far as I know there isn't a mandated size limit on the iOS App Store, and I don't think there's currently one on XBLA, although there used to be. Current systems aren't necessarily limited by the capacity of their physical media, as games can be expanded to multiple discs. It's the restriction that's the problem; telling developers they can't do something with no good reason to back it up is not the way to win third party support.

tendoboy1984July 17, 2012

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

As far as I know there isn't a mandated size limit on the iOS App Store, and I don't think there's currently one on XBLA, although there used to be. Current systems aren't necessarily limited by the capacity of their physical media, as games can be expanded to multiple discs. It's the restriction that's the problem; telling developers they can't do something with no good reason to back it up is not the way to win third party support.

I thought XBLA always had a 1 GB size limit? I remember the original limit was 50 MB, but Microsoft expanded that a few years ago.

There are games well over 2 GB now. I think they lifted the cap; if not, it's a lot higher than 1 GB at this point.

Ian SaneJuly 17, 2012

It doesn't matter what Google or Apple have done.  Nintendo has done the "we'll tell you how to do this or that" routine with third parties before and it got them NOWHERE.  "You will use cartridges.  You will not make online games.  You will use glorified last gen hardware with motion control."  And third parties just said "screw you, we'll make our games on the other systems that don't tell us how to make OUR games."  This isn't some hypothetical speculation, it's real life history.  They did exactly this before and we've seen the results.

broodwarsJuly 17, 2012

Quote from: tendoboy1984

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

As far as I know there isn't a mandated size limit on the iOS App Store, and I don't think there's currently one on XBLA, although there used to be. Current systems aren't necessarily limited by the capacity of their physical media, as games can be expanded to multiple discs. It's the restriction that's the problem; telling developers they can't do something with no good reason to back it up is not the way to win third party support.

I thought XBLA always had a 1 GB size limit? I remember the original limit was 50 MB, but Microsoft expanded that a few years ago.

I don't know what the new file size limit is, but it has to be considerably larger than 1 GB at this point.  Just looking at my PSN titles that have XBLA counterparts...

Quantum Conundrum - 1651 MB
Crysis 1 - 3026 MB
Trine 2 - 1144 MB
The Walking Dead - 1283 MB
I Am Alive - 1954 MB
Hydrophobia Prophecy - 1816 MB

Now, maybe you could argue that these games might not quite be the same size on 360 due to compression or whatnot, but I doubt the 360 versions are that far off.  Considering Crysis 1 is around 3 GB and Microsoft has full versions of 360 games on the service like Alan Wake, I'd say if the XBLA file size still exists at all, it's extremely high now.

Quote from: Ian

It doesn't matter what Google or Apple have done.  Nintendo has done the "we'll tell you how to do this or that" routine with third parties before and it got them NOWHERE.  "You will use cartridges.  You will not make online games.  You will use glorified last gen hardware with motion control."  And third parties just said "screw you, we'll make our games on the other systems that don't tell us how to make OUR games."  This isn't some hypothetical speculation, it's real life history.  They did exactly this before and we've seen the results.

Ian's right here. Nintendo's burned a lot of bridges with third parties over the years, so they need to be extra careful not to upset them now. I doubt many developers were still pissed about the Pippin enough to feel the same about Apple.

nickmitchJuly 17, 2012

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

As far as I know there isn't a mandated size limit on the iOS App Store

It's 2GB, 500 MB for over the air downloads.

Chozo GhostJuly 17, 2012

Quote from: tendoboy1984

If indie developers are ok with making small games, then why can't bigger publishers be satisfied with making small games?

Because consumers won't spend $60 on a game that isn't huge.

I can guess by your avatar that you are content with simple old school games that can fit on a 3.5 inch floppy, but most consumers demand more these days.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJuly 18, 2012

Quote from: Ian

It doesn't matter what Google or Apple have done.  Nintendo has done the "we'll tell you how to do this or that" routine with third parties before and it got them NOWHERE.  "You will use cartridges.  You will not make online games.  You will use glorified last gen hardware with motion control."  And third parties just said "screw you, we'll make our games on the other systems that don't tell us how to make OUR games."  This isn't some hypothetical speculation, it's real life history.  They did exactly this before and we've seen the results.

Hey, where were you when there were folks on here arguing that Nintendo was better off in the olden days when they demanded so much from third party developers?

Also, I don't recall Nintendo telling third parties that they couldn't develop online games.  I even recall having a modem and broadband adapter in my GameCube...  You can argue that Nintendo didn't go out of their way to make supporting it worthwhile... but to say they wouldn't allow it?  Phantasy Star would like to have a word with you.

CericJuly 18, 2012

That is true.  Nintendo's online stance on the Gamecube was that developers where allowed to do whatever they wanted on there own when it came to online.  Sega even tried to cash in on that by making an API to all for simple porting between all he consoles.

Ian SaneJuly 18, 2012

Nintendo's online stance on the Gamecube was "well you CAN do it if you want but we won't support you on this in any way whatsoever and will dedicate effort to specifically downplay the value of online gaming to our userbase thus poisoning the market for any online games you would make and driving the audience for such games to other systems."  They might as well said "no".

Chozo GhostJuly 18, 2012

I wouldn't say Nintendo didn't support online whatsoever, because they did make the broadband adapter and modem available. I agree they could have and should have done a lot more, but making the hardware available was a very significant move in itself.

nickmitchJuly 18, 2012

It was literally the least they could've done. Allowing a 3rd party to make the adapter would've been zero support.

CericJuly 18, 2012

Quote from: nickmitch

It was literally the least they could've done. Allowing a 3rd party to make the adapter would've been zero support.

Allowing 3rd parties to make the adapter would have been the least.  Nintendo not having any expansion ports at all would have been absolute Zero.

nickmitchJuly 18, 2012

I'd actually consider that negative support since it puts a giant roadblock in the way of online all together.

tendoboy1984July 18, 2012

Quote from: Chozo

Quote from: tendoboy1984

If indie developers are ok with making small games, then why can't bigger publishers be satisfied with making small games?

Because consumers won't spend $60 on a game that isn't huge.

I can guess by your avatar that you are content with simple old school games that can fit on a 3.5 inch floppy, but most consumers demand more these days.

They obviously wouldn't charge $60 for those games. Duh. Small games can thrive well on iOS, Android, XBLA, PSN, etc. So there is obviously a huge market for them. No one will pay $60 for a small game, that's why we have digital distribution. And there are plenty of disc-based games that cost $20 or less.


I have no idea where you came up with that "$60" nonsense, because I wasn't alluding to that at all.  :confused;

nickmitchJuly 18, 2012

Big developers want to sell games at $60 and not 99cents I think was his point.

tendoboy1984July 18, 2012

Quote from: nickmitch

Big developers want to sell games at $60 and not 99cents I think was his point.

Well not all games warrant that $60 price tag. There are plenty of disc-based games that are sold for less. There isn't a rule that says disc-based games have to be $60. It all depends on the size and budget of the game.

nickmitchJuly 18, 2012

By that token, not all iOS games are 99cents. I see what you're saying, but $60 is the baseline price for HD games these days, which is why that number was used.

tendoboy1984July 18, 2012

Quote from: nickmitch

By that token, not all iOS games are 99cents. I see what you're saying, but $60 is the baseline price for HD games these days, which is why that number was used.

Actually many "HD" games are sold at $40 (PS Move and Kinect games). Again, it all depends on the size of the game and the budget that was used to create it. The only games that really deserve to be sold at $60 are the big-budget Hollywood cinematic games.

TJ SpykeJuly 18, 2012

Very few HD games are sold at $40. Most "budget" HD games are sold at $50 (including most Kinect games).

OblivionJuly 18, 2012

I've noticed a lot of HD releases being sold at $40.

TJ SpykeJuly 18, 2012

On sale, but not at release. There are some, but not many.

OblivionJuly 18, 2012

God of War Collection, Ico+Shadow of the Col., Okami, and others were all released at $40. Okami is releasing at $20.


EDIT: I meant re-releases, sorry.

tendoboy1984July 18, 2012

Quote from: Oblivion

God of War Collection, Ico+Shadow of the Col., Okami, and others were all released at $40. Okami is releasing at $20.


EDIT: I meant re-releases, sorry.

Those aren't built from the ground up to take advantage of the PS3's power. They're just enhanced PS2 ports.

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