Featuring the return of Droopy Gui!

Shout Out to Clex Yoshi for all but dooming us to a retroactive of LA Mulana. How is it it's always people who are wrong who get a fanbase?

Jon's absence, so mysterious! I'm beginning to think he's become a Secret Agent Man. According to the song, they give you a number and take away your name. Just to throw it out there, what do you think Jon's number would be?

Greg once said that Jon was still subject to the Queen's wishes and could be called in at any moment. That's it! Jon's been called in and Greg's his handler! Jon, if you need help, on the next epsiode, when James asks you for your impressions of Odyssey, say you'd give it a 8.5. We'll get you to a safehouse in Atlanta. Philips Arena during a Hawks game. No one in the stands to report you and all your bodyguards will be 7 feet tall.

The Odyssey discussion at the end was absolutely excellent. The kind of in-depth analysis RFN shines at. Sorry, moons at. Great to hear Jonny again. Wish he had given an update on the interview podcasts for the book (perhaps he didn't mention it because there's nothing to say at the moment).

Gui's experiences at Nintendo of Canada events are always a hoot to listen to. Seems like a neat event, though it can be improved like Gui said. Feels like most of the deficencies of NoC's handling are due to lack of planning and/or creativity more than anything else.

Donald and Gui's tag-teaming of Fire Emblem Warriors went well. Interesting details while making fun of the usual Musou 'features'.

Hey, Mang. don't hate the playa', hate the game!



Speaking of hating the game, I can't stand Persona. Or Shin Megami Tensei in general! people swear by that stuff, but I dunno. never been a huge fan of the art in the base Megaten games. I kinda like how Nocturne looks on the PS2, I guess, but not enough to go out of my way to play it, and Persona 3 stressed me out wanting to do the "living life" stuff right so I don't miss out on stuff, y'know? I just wanted to play the dungeon stuff, and then the game bitches that it makes you tired and boots you out and just... no!

Not sure why Fluidity is even in the poll since it got a dedicated retroactive already... I think?.. Or am i confusing it with one of podcasts featuring a lot of discussion about Fluidity.

Fluidity is great but it has to be La-Mulana. Though i am no not sure if you will have enough prep time of just 3-4 days to play it.

Whow, the La Mulana fans are really in sync there. 30 people voting at the exact same time :O xD

Allow me to explain that in detail.

When I found out this poll went live, I went to several discord servers I frequent, my tumblr, and other forms of social media I have and told folks I really want to hear RFN talk about one of my all-time favorite games, and maybe have an excuse to properly revisit it after all this time!

Also, I think La Mulana will make a HELL of a retroactive.

Azeke, the Poll will be done at the end of the week, and they'll have 3 WEEKS to play it.

Even still, La Mulana is kinda huge, and it took me a fairly long time to beat it on my first run through of the original Freeware game.

I hope the people who voted actually listen to RFN and didn't just vote because you asked them to. That'd kind of suck otherwise. If not, James, start your FFCC campaign so we can get advice/commands from the oddly-dressed chancellor/prime minister.

I distinctly remember downloading the demo for Darklord and being more bored with it than I was for the demo for Crystal Defenders (which was originally a Mobile tower defense game).

Does quirky charm alone really hold a game that comes off as a glorified mobile title up THAT much?

Really, Mobile title is about how I'd sum up all of Square-Enix's Wiiware efforts. figuratively with the FFCC stuff and the abusive ammount of microtransaction cosmetic DLCs attached, and literally in the case of FF4: The After Years.


I imagine that given that I tend to stream the telethon while I take art commissions to raise money for the telethon, that people will at least listen to the episode. Heck, I'm pretty sure a few of the people i pinged on discord threw Blaster Master or Contra a vote instead of La Mulana.

I've actually had to tell quite a few people WTF Jett Rocket, Fluidity, and Darklord even are, though.

Agreed, if they're not actually listeners, it kinda just means clexyoshi is getting a vote voice 30x bigger than everyone else.


I was kinda curious about Jett Rocket so I voted for that, but it looks like already it's going to end up either the #rigged La Mulana, or Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles as the plucky counter vote.

Contra ReBirth - Haven't played. Big Contra fan and this looks great... but not sure I want to buy more WiiWare credit. Also wonder if Contra is fun to talk about, unless you start getting into comparisons with the other games? Also also, are you really playing if you don't get some couch co-op going?

Blaster Master: Overdrive - Meh. Always want to like Blaster Master more than I already do. Would gladly sit this one out if this game is chosen (but would still be interested to listen in).

Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a Darklord - Would much rather play My Life as King. The demo for this game was rather underwhelming.

Fluidity/Hydroventure - This game is fantastic. The large, open levels to explore in the WiiWare original were much more appealing to me than the small, scripted stages in the 3DS sequel. I also recall hearing some discussion on old podcasts, but would love to see (hear) it get more attention. One of the biggest hidden gems on Wii, really needs to be released on another system at some point.

Jett Rocket - I know nothing about this game. Was it good? Is it worth playing today?

La-Mulana - Love this game, despite getting stuck about mid-way through. Very rewarding when you solve puzzles, although also patently unfair at times. Clearly not for everyone, but would probably make a good discussion? If people play, I recommend exploring until you get stuck and then looking stuff up online instead of banging your head against a wall - in many cases, that wall won't budge without some help.

If La-Mulana wins, will ClexYoshi or Azeke be brought in as "resident experts"?




Edit: Note that La-Mulana is available in several formats (WiiWare, Steam, PSN) although some details might differ between versions. That might make it easier for people to get a playable copy, although also maybe a poor choice for a "WiiWare Farewell Tour".

Jett Rocket is a pretty mediocre game, stands out for looking pretty nice for a wiiware game but being on wiiware is really the only standout feature of that game. It's a standard 3D platformer except rather short. I don't think it's worth talking about.



Contra Rebirth got buried by the much fancier Contra 4 but it has a difficulty balance that mortals can actually deal with. So if you actually made it past level 2 of Contra 4 on normal difficulty it's probably too easy for you. Me, I never managed the latter.

#rigged

Yeah... I would have to echo a few concerns people are bringing up. Although I've enjoyed Contra Rebirth, La-Mulana, and FFCC: My life as a Darklord. I would actually prefer if they discussed something I've never heard of before, so Fluidity or Jett Rocket would be a better choice I think.


Ultimately, they should pick one of the titles that may never be available once the WiiWare store closes. I've enjoyed La-Mulana but it's out on steam and the Vita, and I get that's not on any other Nintendo systems, but I've got a feeling that when La-Mulana 2 gets released it will be a perfect excuse to do a retro active of the first title regardless of what platform they play it on.


Just my two cents.

I do kinda feel like Curve digital is doing all righ tofr itself with Stealth Inc doing as well as it did, and if they wanted to bring back fluidity in HD, switch would be the route of least resistance. it'a lso gotten a lot of talk about it in it's past.

Jett Rocket does kinda just... exists.

A much more interesting Blaster Master game already had a (Somewhat) recent retroactive a couple of years back

the only game I kinda feel bad about rallying the base for the democratic process over is Contra Rebirth, because that game is kinda doomed, especiallyb ecause... yes, it was sandwiched between the much better Contra 4 and the XBLA Hard Corps remake/reboot/sequel thing. I still think of the rebirth games, Gradius and especially Castlevania the Adventure are the two more deserving games.


La Mulana, by virtue of existing on Steam and Vita, indeed gives it the most access for the easiest groundswell of support. people don't actually have to load wii points in order to participate. It's still an undeserved niche of a game that genuinely gets a bad rap from people who don't 'get' it. La Mulana 2 is also kinda stuck in developer hell as is, and I don't know if Naramura and Duplex have the resources  to even put La Mulana 2 out on a lot of platforms, let alone perform more ports of the remake.

Oh man - did you guys see the news?
La-Mulana EX physical release on Vita, with preorders opening later this week, thanks to Limited Run Games! Normal and deluxe versions.
https://limitedrungames.com/collections/games/products/limited-run-93-la-mulana-ex-vita

Sweet.  Despite some issues with the game - there are a few "puzzles" I honestly don't think are possible without a guide - I'd totally be on-board to grab a copy.


The Contra Rebirth talk above has me curious. I loved 3, and managed to finish 4 on easy and (I think) normal modes. Sounds like it still might be worth checking out, even if it's not super crazy challenging?

Sorry I have to be that guy but in order to save the sanctity of Fire Emblem warriors... You CAN heal using Lissa or Elise. You have to hold I believe ZR to bring up the menu and if they have a staff you can heal other characters but not yourself. You can also equip Vulneries and heal that way.

Castlevania The Adventure ReBirth is my personal favourite of the ReBirth bunch, but had it been included in the poll and won, it would have been the second classic-style Castlevania game out of the past five RetroActive titles (following Rondo of Blood last year). I considered using the same logic to exclude Blaster Master Overdrive, but the Blaster Master NES RetroActive was a whole year earlier than the Rondo one, so I didn't think that was necessary. I also like Gradius ReBirth, but it's probably not as well suited to generating conversation as Contra is, and thus we ended up with the list as you see it here.

Yeah, that makes sense, Greg.

So we had a chat in RFN back-channels. I'll admit, I'm not in love with how that went down, but it is what it is.


So if it wins, it wins. HOWEVER anyone out campaigning for this game should campaign just as stridently to get those same people to attend, spread the word, and donate.


That said, I'd have preferred this go without people feeling put-out. And we're going to have the chance for that, with our first stretch goal: a second RFN WiiWare RetroActive. $4k is the goal for the telethon. Right now we're looking at either 4.5k or 5k.


And there will be no brigading this time. Donations will help drive the vote. Details tbd

I most certainly will be campaining to get people to donate to the actual telethon, just because it's a good cause.

Unfortunatley it's a bit late, but I did try to be transparent about it in case people running the telethon or on the actual RFN panel objected to my attempts to rally individuals. Now that I fully understand the sort of social media reach I can actually have, I promise I won't do this again and I'll be working hard to make sure for whatever grief that the telethon sees donations from individuals I got to vote.

I was hoping you'd take a more King Solomon approach and split the baby - RFN talks about La Mulana in the retroactive section, but ONLY takes listener comments about Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles.

?

The game is nearing completion with steady updates from the dev team informing about their progress. They're finishing up balancing as of the last update.

Wario Land 1 on the gameboy is absolutely the best Wario Land game. No question about it.


Even back in the 90's when i went to buy Wario Land 2 i was sooooo disappointed in it. Still own it and still am.

My kids and I had a blast in two player mode and my kids love the motion controls. Selfish grown ups.

Totally agree. I like most of the ideas in Wario Land 2/3... but find the implementation fell way short of my expectations.


The first Wario Land game is a bit of an over looked gem these days. Maybe a bit too slow at times, although speed ramps up quickly if you have the Jet or Bull power. Level design is much better than in the sequels, and there are lots of secrets to find, including high-value hidden treasures. Multiple possible endings also made the game a lot of fun to replay.


That said, I also love Wario Land 4 on GBA and Wario Land Shake It! Very tight level designs, and lots of fun to play. Shake It might be my favorite game in the series, because of the gorgeous graphics and amazing soundtrack.

This is by far the most negative Mario odessey podcast I’ve listened too. Attack me for this comment but true.

Game club run by Shesez, Beta64, and A+Start on Youtube was harsher, ragging on things like artistic inconsistency and how they like Galaxy better and such.

I haven’t listened to that one. I mean I guess you can say it has artistic inconsistency but I just saw it as them portraying different parts of the world. I don’t know I liked that each area was so different visually from the other. I dug that.

Still this I was ready for a glowing podcast about Mario sprinkled with some criticisms about the game but instead it turned into this is what it does wrong and this is what I don’t like and it kept going.

Sometimes I think people forget that these games are made for a wide wide range of people. The Co op mechanic is amazing with my kids because I can help with cappy or I can control Mario in harder sections and have them help with cappy and they love it. Much more than the Galaxy coop.


Also having a bunch of moons and some being super easy to get is perfectly fine. My kinds (4 and 6) find some moons way way too hard but some of the easier ones that are just “laying around” they love cause they still are having fun and they still get that sense of reward from getting a moon and it keeps them going instead of hitting a brick wall and just running around for an hour without getting one moon because adults complained that every moon should be a challenge.

If you insist. Comrades! We strike at dawn.

I might skip this Ep then. I hate it when you hear a certain nitpick that you were oblivious to before but once you hear it, you notice it too. Enjoying my time, going slow and savoring.

That's the problem, isn't it? These games are made for a broad audience, as you say, and the yet the co-op mode only seems to be useful for people with young children. I'm fairly certain that Guillaume's partner is not a 6-year-old, so you should understand why they didn't find it as enjoyable (especially coming off a game like Super Mario 3D World, which had great co-op for experienced players).

Yeah, it is fine for the main game. The problem is that there are many superfluous post-game Power Moons as well. Just as it isn't unreasonable to expect Mario games to be very accessible for children or less experienced gamers during the main game, it's not unreasonable to expect that the game sheds the fluff and delivers a more lean platforming challenge after the credits roll. Having Power Moons that are in plain sight, require no platforming challenge to get to, and marked on the map as post-game content does make it seem like they were just trying to get the Power Moon count up.

I do think the RFN crew sometimes comes across as more critical of a game than they intend to, but this episode didn't really feel like one of those weeks. I was actually surprised at how effusive James was in his praise for this game, and the discussion felt pretty balanced overall.

But is it a problem? Hey I when to see a family movie and boy was I upset that they had some kid jokes in it. Oh wait no I wasn’t. Because I went to see a FAMILY movie.

This is a game meant for all ages. It has some impossible stuff for young children. Some real challenges and it has some features for young kids and parents. Because it’s a FAMILY game. I find it silly to nitpick about a feature that many others enjoy because you as adults found it boring. Mario is not a game you should be looking at for your intense co op fun.

I’m not tying to be a jerk but this is a feature that has been tremendously fun for me and my family and many echo that sentiment.

Super Mario 3D World is also a family game, and as was mentioned on this episode, they found the co-op in that game to be more enjoyable. I don't remember anyone on the podcast saying that the co-op mode should not be fun for families and people with children, and that's certainly not what I'm saying. It's just that they can (and should) try to serve both audiences better.

Yeah, I feel like I had covered pretty much all the bases: I conceded Odyssey's co-op might be useful in the context of helping a child play through the game but isn't fun with an experienced player. I don't find controlling Cappy fun, and Karen doesn't WANT Cappy control taken away from her.


3D World is my gold standard for 3D Mario co-op.


All of this was covered in the episode itself.


As for the negativity, it's not something I wanted to bring to the podcast, but it just resulted from just liking a game everyone else LOVES. I made sure to state more than once that I wasn't as down on the game as I came across, and that it just came down to my preferences.

I knew when i posted that i found the segment overly negative that i would get people on me. That's been the way here imo. A bit too defensive about critic from the crew and fans but sorry guys it's how i felt.


i'm not saying i don't like the show and in contrast i've listened to every episode ever and super excited to hear a new one every week. I love the crew but yeah this was a downer. Even my wife who was in the car with was like damn this guy is raining the negativity on the game.


I mean even when james was trying to steer it back to positive Gui would take it back to complaining about something and even got poor Metts into it too. Lol. Is hard to rain complaints then at the very end say yeah but I liked it like that excuses the past 20 mins lol.

Are you saying that you're not enjoying coming across as overly critical and negative, and that before you even said anything you knew people would make a big deal out of your light criticism and would act overly defensive? That you're a big fan but had some issues with the latest that came out, and it brought you down?


I can't imagine what that's like.




Look, I'm sorry for being snarky but I tried to be mostly positive, it's just that no one else seemed to have the same feelings about the game as I did, so I had to express them. I know some listeners feel the same way I do, and I don't see a reason to not express that point of view. The alternative would have been to shut up, which is largely what I did for the one hour Odyssey conversation between James and Greg on 547, so go ahead and enjoy that.


I may have some more positive things to say in future episodes, as I find aspects of the game I like more. But the collectathon nature of the game isn't something I enjoy, and unfortunately it's prevalent and unavoidable when playing through the game.

Hey Guillaume! Don't worry about what other people think, just keep being you. You are one of my favorite hosts on RFN and I love to hear your opinion. Although your experience might be different than others, I find it is best to at least share that experience.


It was the same with my friends too, as no one really like the co-op in the game either. We ended up just watching the one person play and talked about his skills (which were not very good). All games have quirks or aspects that not everybody likes, and it is relieving to know some one out there also shares the same opinion.


Keep being you Guillaume! I hope to hear you talk twice as much in 548 to make up for your hour of silence!

Its not a personal attack on you and you're super funny i always enjoy your sharp wit.


I want that to be clear i'm not attacking you! lol. Here is the irony in all this. Think of my comments like what you said about Mario Odyssey.


Everyone was raining praise but you had some small issues here and there and you expressed them. Doesn't mean you didn't love the game.


Same with me. I love this pod cast but at times i feel for pacing things should be mixed a bit. Constructive criticism with positive. Sometimes i feel the podcast likes to steer a bit too much in the negativity.

Like how you called out odyssey i came in here and just gave my opinion and like you i'm getting crap for it. the irony.

Kobeskillz, out of curiosity, how long have you been listening to RFN?  They have had a tendency to spend a lot of time nit-picking flaws in a game that they overall largely love, spanning as far back as I remember (Dr. Metts days). 

You had two people on the podcast who both summarized that they had effusive praise for the game, and one who didn't say he didn't like the game, but wanted to provide input as to why he wasn't enamored with it at the same level as Jonny & James.

Additionally, while this is a matter of personal preference, RFN's podcasts are often conversational when touching upon a larger game or topic, which can cause uneven flow.  I personally like it, but understand it's a matter of personal taste.

I gotta say, regarding Mario Odyssey, I really don't see how it's seen as the descendant of super Mario 64.  There's so little structure in each world.  Whereas Mario 64's worlds you'd be there for one specific star, in Mario Odyssey, you're given open rein to scour the land for whatever moon you'd like.

Mmmm i'd say between 2012-2013.


Don't get me wrong i love the show and i know the style which i like but i don't know sometimes it goes on a bit tooo much. I can understand if you're playing Sunshine and you're taking a crap on it for a while but Odyssey just felt weird as it kept going and going even while james was doing his best to spotlight the good things. It was just so different from the conversations i've heard about this game before.


Heck even my wife noticed it and she doesn't care about games and podcast. lol.


I do feel the crew shouldn't take constructive criticism so personal and thats always been a problem i've noticed. They have different opinions and i thought you could voice your opinion here even if it was different from theirs but i do notice they get defensive at times and so do the long time fans.


Again i know i'll be jumped on for those comments but hey as a fan that's how i feel. As unpopular as that may be.

I relistened to 546 and there's no doubt that Gui is significantly more negative about the game than the others. But he articulated his reservations about Odyssey pretty well. At no point did I feel he was spitting "hot fiyah" and being contrarian just for the sake of it, which is what you get with a certain segment of the podcast/youtube casters. I've had some fun with Existential Crisis Gui in the past, but there was none of that here. Just an in-depth discussion about the design of the game with differing opinions.

"It was just so different from the conversations i've heard about this game before."

What does that have to do with anything? That sounds close to what people complain about when a review score is out of line with the majority. Gui's concerns aren't yours. What he enjoys or what annoys him, may be different from you. As long as he can explain why he feels the way he does, I don't see the problem.

I thought Gui's post in this topic discussing co-op was accurate to how he expressed it on the podcast and pretty much sums up the situation. He even acknowledged that others may enjoy the co-op mode more than he did. Not being afraid to express your viewpoint while realizing how and why others may feel different seems the best that anyone could expect of anyone on any subject. Most of your "constructive" criticism seems to be: Gui thinks differently from me and others and that is harshing my buzz.

Gui's criticisms probably don't even rank in the top 50 most negative things ever expressed on this podcast. Heck, it may not even make it into the top 10 of this year. My email back in April about Switch hitting 16 million for this fiscal year (hey-oh!) was probably more negative than Gui's Odyssey talk!

I was about to say, I'm pretty sure I had to listen to Gui poo-poo on Order of Ecclesia this year when he went through that phase where he didn't have a switch and was just aimlessly finding games to hate on that are popular like Final Fantasy 7.

Sure, but many parts of Final Fantasy 7 are absolute garbage - translation work, graphical style, much of the storyline, most of the forced mini-games that interrupt the flow of the story, etc - so maybe that's not the best example to give?  It had a huge advertising budget back in the day, but (outside of being in 3D and being a huge game) was in many ways a step backwards from the previous Final Fantasy game. Lacking a massive nostalgia hard-on, there isn't a good enough reason to say anything otherwise.


Point being, there's nothing wrong with one person "poo-pooing" a game that has notable flaws and isn't something that impressed him. If you feel differently, that's fine. Let people know why you enjoy the game.

;)




(For the record, I think Order of Ecclesia is pretty awesome.)