(insert obligatory "OMG RUINED FOREVER" post here)

Not sure how I feel about the hot-start. Feedback?

I'm happy with how it turned out, but I want everyone to know that this rolling "hot" start is probably not going to be a regular thing. I thought it would be fun to try and would throw everyone off-balance in a good way. We may do it again sometime, but I think it caused Greg some headaches and would also lose its impact if done too often.

As a wrestling fan, occasionally starting the show off right away (with no intro or anything like that) can work and be impact full. Every week would take that away.

Haven't listened to this weeks episode yet (probably will tomorrow or Tuesday), but I liked how the old format was. I will give my opinions on the new one after I listen to the show.

I like the hot start. It probably shouldn't be an every week thing, but if you've got a topic you want to jump right into, it's a cool way to do it.

Also, since apparently Jon is a big fan of Tecmo Bowl, like myself, I know what we're doing next time I make it to PAX. No picking the Raiders!

It's kind of weird to listen to because half the conversation happened before we started recording.

Yeah, ActRaiser, YEAH.

Man, not even sure what to comment on from this ep... let's give it a go....

1. The hot start was cool.  I think doing it once or twice a year would work.  Certainly stick with the musical intro for most weeks.

2. I was a Sega kid back during the SNES days.  My best friend had SNES so I played it all the time and I actually borrowed a different friend's SNES for an entire summer once.  But yea... love Mickey's Mystic Quest, Secret of Mana, (Super)SF2, Star Fox, SUPER METROID, the list does go on and on ...

3. Kirby's Adventure is still probably my favorite Kirby game.  I have high hopes for Returns to Dreamland.

4. I loved BoF III and IV on PSX.  I tried to go back and play BoF1 and it didn't work out for me... never played BoF1 or 5.  I probably should!!!
... ya know what? eff it. I'm gonna hunt these games down and play them!!
... don't that beat all?
(10 internets to anyone who can cite the reference)

5. I've heard of Illusion of Gaia but ... I actually have never seen it played and know basically nothing about it =\

6. Tecmo Super Bowl (NES) is amazing... I still host a tourney for the game every year before the actual Super Bowl!

~~~~~~~

Another great show guys!
Are you gonna have to switch to 16-bit for 256+?

I'm not as big on the game as Jonny is (I think its spiritual descendant Terranigma exceeds it in every conceivable way), but Illusion of Gaia is a very unique and enjoyable experience.  As a completion-ist, the game annoyed me because it's a lot more linear than you would expect from that sort of game, and there are collectibles hidden that unlock useful gear towards the end of the game that you just can't go back for.  The ending's also a little "meh" as well.

If Nintendo really does own the publishing rights to Illusion of Gaia, they really do have no excuse for not bringing the game over to the NA Virtual Console when they're releasing **** all otherwise for it.  I could have sworn that Enix (now Square-Enix) published the game in NA, though.  Of the unofficial "Gaia trilogy", though, we really need to get Terranigma.  It's just the better game of the 3 games, and one that was never originally released in NA so a lot of people have never even heard of it.

And for that matter, we really need to get Lufia 2 over on the NA VC as well, especially since IIRC the ESRB actually rated the thing earlier this year.

Of course, since NoA seems to despise RPGs given how things are going on the Wii these days, I have a sinking feeling we won't see any of these games until the Wii U rolls around at the very earliest.  Even that's unlikely, though, since NoA will be rushing to put GC games up on the service for a much larger profit.

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 is nowhere near the longest game title. Here are some longer ones (English versions only, Japanese titles can be very long):

Disney's American Dragon: Jake Long, Attack of the Dark Dragon (DS/GBA)
Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. the Soulless Army (PS2)
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons: Eye of the Beholder III: Assault on Myth Dranor (PC)
Leisure Suit Larry 3: Passionate Patti in Pursuit of the Pulsating Pectorals (PC/Mac)
The Adventures of Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius: Jimmy Neutron Vs. Jimmy Negatron (GBA)
The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II -- The Rise of the Witch-king (PC)

I LOVE the cold open to start. It's definitely better used as a rarely-used approach it will keep things fresh.

You know how Quantum of Solace starts the film in the middle of a car chase? This felt the same way: lacking context but BLAM and we're off.

BTW, the movie about the kid who gets into MLB because of his arm is Rookie of the Year.

So the old G&W collections had modernized game versions too? Nice, I'll look at it then. G&W Collection Advance was awesome, especially some of the modernized versions like Chef. It has the games from G&WC1 in their old form but I don't think it has them modernized.

I loved the opening! It made me, as the kids say, lol.

Peter Jackson's King Kong, the Movie: The video game.

@James Jones

Enslaved is really fun.  I'm definitely in the defense force for this game.  It feels like an enjoyable Sci-fi action movie.  Plus the characters are very human.  Not just the character motions but it feels like the most have had the voice actors acting out the scenes when they did the recordings.  The music is fantastic and fits perfectly.  Let us know what you think of the ending on the show.  Thanks.

I look forward to the assault on my taste and character next week.

@ broodwars

I am indeed a completionist so we'll see how that goes =)  Terranigma is another one I've heard mentioned here and there throughout my gaming life but never had any (memorable) first-hand contact with.  From the podcast it sounds like it never hit the states?

I wonder what would be more financially beneficial for Nintendo - slowly trickling gems on to the VC like they are doing, or just trying to put a comprehensive library online from the get go?

The trickling makes titles get a bump in hype/coverage/sales when they are eventually released.  But imagine how much hardware it would help move if Nintendo could say: "every NES/SNES game ever made is available on the Wii U VC."?
(not to be confused with some kind of Wii QVC)

Plus, if they were ALL online, I imagine you'd get a lot more impulse purchases from people just browsing through who are like "hmm, I heard of that but never played it... let's give it a whirl for $5!"

... just my thoughts.

@ TJ Spyke

hilarious list.

I was afraid one of my beloved Crystal Chronicles games would have made the list.  "Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers" is pretty long!

My Life as a Dark Lord is longer

Well, the title was Peter Jackson's King Kong: The Official Game of the Movie. Still long and redundant though. I always think it's stupid when games based on a movie feel they have to add "The Game" or "The Video Game" to the title.

I was just thinking that it was about time to change the intro music. You guys can read minds, too?! Is there anything you can't do?

In all seriousness, great episode. I now have a nice list of Super Nintendo games to track down. :D

Jonny, everything you were saying about when your family was in town, taking forever to leave the house with your sister's new baby, not having time to game on your console but finding 5 minutes here, 5 minutes there while you're waiting for someone to get ready...

Dude, that was your sneak peek at gaming during fatherhood.

I think there are a few gamer daddies (and maybe mommies?) in these forums who can identify.  My wii is collecting dust right now, but it's not because I'm playing on an HD console, nor is it that I don't have games to play on it.  In fact, my Wii backlog approaches Lindermanish heights.  It's my beautiful new 6 month old that's to blame.

I think I found a longer one:
Tales of Monkey Island Chapter 4: The Trial and Execution of Guybrush Threepwood

Yeah, Terranigma was fully localized in English in Europe (which is the version I played) and was generally very well-received, but for some inexplicable reason the Powers that Be decided not to release the game in NA despite the SNES winding down around that point.  Gee, sound familiar?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, fellas, but I'm not so sure I remember seeing any indication that the forthcoming 3DS Virtual Console release of Bionic Commando was any but the original Game Boy release and not "Elite Forces" for the Game Boy Color.

I played a couple hours of Terranigma via emulator about ten years go, and it didn't hook me like Illusion of Gaia. However, that's hardly an ideal setting, and I would love to have another shot at it.

One observation that I assuredly wont remember to make this week: I find that games like Enslaved are exhausting to marathon. My objective was to knock out the game today and tomorrow, but after two hours I feel exhausted. I can play mentally taxing games, like strategy and puzzle titles, for untold hours. However, these games that require a lot of quick reaction wear me out much more quickly.


MLB network - naptime

I wasn't sure if downloadables were being included in the discussion.

@ broodwars

Painfully, familiar, yes. =)

Hey Crimm, if you like baseball so much how do you not own a PS3? The MLB 2K series has been shit ever since it started on the Dreamcast 10 years ago, while the Sony-exclusive The Show series is almost as good as MVP '05, the greatest baseball game ever.

Axelay!!!! whooooo  ;D

I looove Illusion of Gaia, and I'm so happy I still have my cartridge. Jonny's discussion makes me want to pop it in right now and play it again!

I actually got to play The Show and did not enjoy the controls in the slightest. I find the controls of the last two iterations in the 2K series to be far more compelling. Pitching and hitting felt like you were completely in control, rather than just pressing buttons at the right time.

Did you play this year's The Show? They re-did the controls to be all analog. I love the new pitching meter, whereas it used to be what I hated most about the series. To me it strikes a good balance between the old-school meter and the abstract nature of 2K's stuff, and the game surrounding it is just so much better.

If I ever played Breath of Fire II, would I need to play the original Breath of Fire first?

Should I just read the wiki for it or something?

Breath of Fire games make passing references to the history in the other games, but each story is self-contained.

Breath of Fire II had gloriously terrible box art, which most likely prompted me to pass it up when looking for games to rent or buy during the SNES era.

I did try The Show's take on the 2K games, it's better than buttons but I still like the 2K one better. That said, I don't need more than one baseball game a generation.


Also, I did figure out how to package players the right way to trigger major trades that turn games into beatdowns.


As for the Breath of Fire II/Breath of Fire - I'd say those two are more connected than the others but you could start with II quite easily. There is a scene in BoFII that would lose a little meaning without BoF but it's not a major issue. It's sort of like reaching the end of Lufia 2 if you saw the beginning of Lufia 1. Mostly irrelevant to your ability to enjoy the game, but still pretty cool.

Since Super R-Type is pretty much R-Type II you can get a proper arcade port of it on XBLA in the R-Type Dimensions package.

Fun episode.

I enjoyed Turtles in Time immensely, and understand why it's on the top 20.  There are just so many good games on the Super Nintendo that it would have been more reasonable task to make an essential 50 instead of 20. 

Part of what makes me love Turtles in Time so much is that I played the NES Turtles Arcade games first and was disappointed with it, but then Turtles in Time was such a great improvement.  Now, if only someone would release The Simpsons arcade game...

I'll probably be laughed out of the forums for this, but my top 20 definitely would have included Super Ghouls N Ghosts...

I've got to come in here and give James an old Jonesian "you're categorically wrong." I keep up with the 2K series through demos, and I detest it to the very core. Meanwhile, The Show is the only baseball game that lives up to the legacy of MVP 2005 (the best baseball game ever made).

BTW, the 0.9 multiplier for pound prices isn't based on the dollar but the Euro. The pound prices match the Euro prices, that's why DSi points cost more than Wii points.

I used to think that Super R-Type was just a port of R-Type II with an extra level tacked on the front, but having played R-Type II a couple of years ago there are further differences. For instance, the water levels have completely different bosses in each game, and the typical R-Type giant battleship stage involves multiple smaller battleships in the arcade game, while on SNES it's one giant ship more like the one in the original game. I still prefer R-Type III over both versions.

I'm a big fan of Super Ghouls'n Ghosts of course, which is why the closing music for this episode was taken from the game's credit sequence--I thought it would be a nice choice because apparently a lot of people wouldn't have heard that particular song before!

Obviously the UK prices are directly derived from the Euro prices since all of Europe shares the same eShop. However, the nominal prices on the European eShop are generally 1:1 with the prices listed in North America, so the 0.9 rate still applies from USD to GBP. And when I, a British person, am discussing eShop pricing with my three colleagues in the United States, the natural tendency is to speak in terms of pounds and dollars rather than  the euro.


And yes, DSi points/eShop credit cost more in pounds because those price structures were implemented after the financial crisis caused the pound to lose a significant chunk of its value against the Euro--when the Wii launched in Dec 06 the pound was worth 1.5 euro, by 2009 that figure was down to about 1.1.

I'll grant you that having different analog motions for different types of pitches is pretty cool. Too bad the game is terrible.

Luckily for us, next year is the final year of 2K's MLB exclusivity, and they've made it pretty clear they're not happy with it, paving the way for the end of exclusivity, and, God willing, MVP Baseball 2013.

There is nothing stopping EA Sports from doing MVP Baseball, the last one was college baseball (which I guess didn't sell as well as they hoped since that was several years ago and they haven't made a new one).

I don't know if it's bad news.  Sure Elite Forces is great, but the GB version is quite good too.

You just refuted your own point so I didn't have to, so +1 to you.

Pitching in 2K is fantastic once you get used to it. It is the first baseball game where I felt like a bad pitch was decidedly my own fault

Like I said, the pitching is awesome. If I could use those mechanics in The Show I totally would. But outside of the pitching, The Show is vastly superior to 2K in pretty much every conceivable way. The way 2K has handled the series is a testament to why these exclusivity deals are bad for the games. Madden lacks ambition too, but at least it's still a well-made game.

2k10 is regarded as a much better game than any of its predecessors.


I also got it for something like $15. New.

Having played 2K9 extensively, I should hope 2K10 was better. The series is improving, but not nearly fast enough. It seems like they're just content to concede the PS3 market to The Show knowing that if you want a baseball game for 360 or Wii you have no other choice.

I'm kind of surprised that given how bad 2K's Wii MLB games have been Nintendo never took Pennant Chase Baseball off the shelf, dusted it off, threw some Wii features at it and released it.

Oh God, 2k10 Wii was supposed to be an ugly mess and for the DS it was a Hindenburgian disaster. The 360 version was competent, which really shows where they put their efforts.

I played 2K8 on Wii and 2K9 on the 360, so I have justifiable reason to hate the franchise. I didn't care for The Show either until this year when they revamped the controls. What I guess I'm saying is BRING BACK MVP BASEBALL. Hell, just rerelease MVP 05 with current rosters and I'd pay $60 for that if I had to.

I reviewed 2K10 for Wii, and after doing research, I'm pretty sure they have published literally the same game with updated rosters every year. I dislike the 2K series in general, but that Wii version is terrible. I enjoyed The Bigs, though. Not great, but not bad.

The Power Pros games were awesome. I wish they'd kept bringing those over. Despite the cutesy art style those games had crazy depth.

I also think one of the reasons Turtles in Time stays as such a well remembered game was that not only did it look just like the arcade game, it was very much improved.  The SNES version added levels, added bosses, more fitting and interesting bosses as well.

A few SNES games of note not mentioned:
Rock 'n Roll Racing - Kinda R.C. Pro-Am with rock music.
Metal Combat: Falcon's Revenge - I'm not surprised nobody mentioned a super scope game, but this one is great.
Tetris Attack - My favorite puzzle game until Meteos came along.
Killer Instinct - I'm not generally a fan of fighting games, but I love the combo system in this series.
Mario Paint - Making your own music and doing your own animations, loved it.
NBA Jam - Yes there are good sports games on the SNES.  NBA Jam was the only one I was really into, but I remember NBA Live being a big deal as well.

EA has been unable to make any MLB-licensed games for years due to 2K's quasi-exclusivity on the league's license, in which only 2K and first-parties (platform holders like Sony) can make MLB games.

Though apparently that has restrictions like it doesn't apply to Japan (Konami's MLB Power pro series), for example. That is why Konami had to have 2K Sports publish the games in North America.

Like I said, the Wii game pales in comparison to the horror show that is the DS game. Even the back of the box was harrowing to look at.

MLB Bobblehead Pros hit XBLA this summer. It seems to be more of the same, just with bobbleheads instead of the old art style.

Re: Turtles in Time...

I loved the arcade game and was a Sega kid back in the day so my best at-home option was renting (that's right, kids, people used to RENT games!) Hyperstone Heist.

If I'm not mistaken, it was basically just the poor man's Turtles in Time.  I enjoyed it, but I remember playing Turtles in Time (can't bring myself to use the acronym) at a friend's house on his SNES and thinking "muuuuch better!"

... still, in the end, either arcade game + MAME + 4 usb controllers = Turtle power.

Two of my favorite games on the SNES that weren't mentioned were Out of This World and it's spiritual sequel Flashback: The Quest for Identity.  They were also available on the PC, but since my family didn't own anything that could remotely handle it at the time, I experienced them on the SNES.  The character animation was so impressive to me at the time.  With Flashback, I just had fun messing around with the personal transporter.

Well i didn't dislike it but next time maybe the hot start could be much shorter (about a minute i guess) just long enough for us to know what the opening subject is then cut to the song and then start the actual topic. Then again if you're aren't going to do this often then it doesn't really matter that much

btw i like the new song.

It was so weird to hear how such cornerstones of my (rather sad in hindsight) youth like Breath of Fire I/II, Lufia I/II, and Illusion of Gaia are apparently obscure games nowadays. Not that I can objectively disagree, but those games were huge in my circle of friends, so it's a disconnect for me to hear that few people actually played them.

I'm aware of that, but as I mentioned earlier in this thread, 2K's exclusivity deal runs out next year, and they've made it fairly clear they aren't happy with it, so there is a very real possibility of no exclusivity the following year, paving the way for MVP Baseball 2013.

I had just recently gotten into WoW when I had my Son so, during that time I always happen to be the closest parent since his room was by where I had my computer room.  He do baby things and I have to go get him because, my wife wouldn't hear so half the time I ended up raiding with a baby sleeping on me.

Another World got an HD remake BTW, some of you expressed a desire for HD rotoscope animation.

@Ceric

LOL nice.  Hey man, you gotta do what you gotta do.  I always get a kick out of seeing somebody say in chat:

> Hold on, gotta change a diaper
> brb

Funny stuff.  And the kid doesn't even know that he's witnessing you saving Azeroth.

lol.  I'm guilty of having a huge backlog now, too, because of kid responsibilities.  I didn't want to be one of those dads who play games enough to ignore their children and annoy their wives.  So, most of my gaming occurs between 10 pm and 1 am, a couple of times a week.  Nap times on weekends always work, too.

Last summer, I was playing Monster Hunter when my two year-old woke up from a nap.  I was nearly finished with a quick mission to gather materials, so I wanted to get through it quickly so I could save.  During the mission, I killed a Great Jaggi, and when he fell over dead, my son asked, "Did he go to sleep, Daddy?"  Oh, man...I decided to turn the game off at that point.

I look forward to playing games with my kids one day.  Some of my favorite memories involve playing the Atari 5200 Mario Bros with my dad, and working together through the Super Mario Bros. and the Legend of Zelda with my dad.  I managed to get my whole family into playing Mario Kart 64 and Double Dash.  I also have a grandmother who used to play all the old game systems donated by her grandkids.  I used to play Atari and SNES games with her as well; she got good enough at Link to the Past to beat it within just a few hours at a time.  ...so, I'm lucky enough to have a lot of fond memories of family gaming, and I appreciate that.

I own and have played through Illusion of Gaia at least twice. And yet I totally didn't rememver the story at all until Jonny started to talk about it. I found the gameplay decent. Jonny seems to think more highly of it.

Apparently my audio quality sucks in the new episode. My apologies in advance.

No love for the TRUE greatest baseball game ever... Ken Griffey Jr. Presents: Major League Baseball? Shameful.

And inspired by the conversation, I sought out Illusion of Gaia. Found it at a local used games store selling for $33. Made a mental note, then went to eBay and saw Gaia in a lot of 7 games, including Super Punch-Out (another great "sports" game unmentioned) and Alien 3 (a pretty awesome licensed games if I recall) and Populous, and won it for $18 total, incl. shipping. Sorry brick 'n mortar store. I am happy.