Lower than 7.9, who would of thunk?

Still a decent score. This is series is about love, not critical acclaim!

7.5 is the perfect score for this game IMO. Racing in 150cc is infuriating in my experiences as well. I typically get out in front of the pack pretty easy, but get bombarded with Blue Shells and other items at a fairly steady pace. Typically I can stay out in front but seemingly too often I will get nailed with an item at the finish line and it's game over for me, which just sucks.

Yes, 7.5 is a decent score.  I think MK Wii is a decent game.

I would have given it an 8.5 or 9.  MK Wii is amongst the best.

No one was screaming for the addition of Motorcycles and motion controls. But motion controls worked well and the motorcycles increased tactics.  Like a said before, this is the most tactics oriented Mario Kart ever and I love it.

MOAR PLZ.

Wait, how would a track be based off New Super Mario Bros? I can see Galaxy, but NSMB? Um..

Yeah, I'll take my time buying this game. Not many folks to party with anyway these days. BTW, I like Ghost Valley 2 on the SNES. I don't know what it's like on Wii, but I was disappointed in the GBA rendition because the original track design hinged on the feather power-up. (Feather for easy short-cut, mushroom for riskier version of the short-cut.) I suspect the Wii rendition has the same problem.

I would definitely give this game a better score, it has what may be the best track lineup in the series' history, I love the bikes and the tricks, I like all the new items, and it has the second-best online setup on the Wii. I think this is the best game in the series.

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I guess it makes a difference with the whole two items thing.  But I'd argue how much more advanced the drifting is, as well as the trick system and wheelies.  In combination with the choice of motorcycle or kart, I feel like I'm playing Brawl.

NSMB has a lot of classic Mario environments that have never really been used in the Mario Kart series.

I couldn't agree more with Jonny's review. 7.5 is a perfect score, and all of his reasons are completely valid. The item-spamming is much worse in this game than in previous games (even Double Dash). Even at the 100cc level, I'm getting smashed by multiple Blue Shells, Bullet Bills, and Super Stars than ever before. What's more, I noticed an ugly trend that perhaps Jonny didn't pick up on:

The higher the difficulty level, the worse your access to powerful items, even at the back of the line.

Example: You're in 9th place in a 50cc race. You get a Bullet Bill and shoot ahead to 3rd. Next, you're in 9th place in a 100cc race. The best item you can get seems to be a Triple Red Shell. Yeah, that'll help a LOT. Finally, you're in a 150cc race in, again, 9th place. Your best item? Let me tell you what I got one time: A Lightning Cloud. On the final lap. GREAT.

The single-player game suffers from rubberband AI, opponents who want your head on a stake, and terrible item distribution. The 150cc game is beyond frustrating.

It's lucky the online matches are damn awesome!

EH?

Has anyone heard the sounds used for the Mii's? Millions of people must now be subject to the torturous sound of constipation.

Rainbow Road seems to have many things influenced by Galaxy...

There are so many things that I hate about this game, especially the item balance issues.  And yet, get a bunch of friends together, online or off, and all those things disappear.  I am very impressed with how well online racing runs, and things like trading ghosts online and viewing friend's rankings make this game all the more delicious.

True, but NSMB isn't really unique to any other Mario game (besides it is a Handheld game, I don't recall ANY new maps being based off handheld games in the console games). Also isn't the Rainbow Road loosely based off some elements in galaxy, like the boosting stars?

Also the always intelligent posters at GoNintendo are bashing the review. (Ok maybe I'm exaggerating about the intelligent part).

LOL I just read the comments there and they are ridiculous. If Jonny would've given the game a 9 people would've naturally commented that he is just a stupid fanboi who eats up every Nintendo series even though it is generally unchanged each generation. I love the internets.

BOWSERS CASTLE is based off Galaxy.

DISGUSTING review! It's BY FAR the best Mario Kart game of all time. Nobody cares that you had a group of friends over to play the game for a couple of hours, if that makes your opinion worthy of a reviewer then this site is shithouse. You do realise people are going to be playing this game for years, and look back and laugh at this thrown together kneejerk review? WHICH Mario Kart is better and why? WHAT are the balance issues? (besides your hormones)

The wheel isn't for nintards who can't get over masturbating with the control stick and dpad for 15 years, it's for people who like driving and have co-ordination. I feel it gives MORE control over my character. And no it's not a "handicap" i've got some of the top 10 time trial times in the country with it. You're probably one of those people who get lapped on Rainbow Road online. HOW is the implementation disappointing? WHAT else could they do? YOu turn the damn wheel, the kart or bike turns. It's actually IMPOSSIBLE for the other options to be "more precise" since the Wheel gives a wider range of turning making it easier to make slight adjustments than slightly tapping the analog stick and hoping its enough. So as vague as you've tried to be with this review, a FACTUAL error slipped through. FACT: YOU SUCK!

LOL!!!

Come ON. OBVIOUSLY there's going to be a few tracks coming back you dislike, but on a whole they did a great job. Delfino Square more than makes up for anything. Double Dash had no old tracks at ALL.

What the heck? NOBODY CARES! These "cons" are laughable. They aren't even anything.

PS bikes are AWESOME, this is the best bike game ever made. Nobody was asking for bikes? Then that's INNOVATION, something you claim is "missing" from Double Dash. At times like these i'm so glad this site doesn't get any views.

Bikes are amazing, I can't go back to karts.  We should just call it Mario Bike from now on.

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The drifting in MK Wii is more advanced because you can't just do it on any straight away, you actually have to do it in places where it makes sense. Anyone can waggle left and right, but apparently not everyone knows the fastest way around a race track. I sometimes still go left and right out of habit too, even with the wheel. But it's more of a correction technique now.

I personally think Nintendo rushed the new MK out. We just got Brawl, couldn't they have waited a few more months and release it in the summer, which is ALWAYS a dry season for gamers?

They could have used that time to iron the gameplay, make the graphics a bit better, add more options and most importantly, build more hype.

Even if the game is rock solid (whether the game is the best or its really disappointing its all up to you) there's no denying that had Nintendo delayed it for a couple of more months would have been near perfect and acceptance might have been brighter.

Uh nope. This is just how Nintendo does Mario Kart. We only learned of Double Dash's existence 5-6 months before it came out too. Have you played it Pap? Jonny is comparing a game he played for 2 hours to ones he probably played for hundreds.

I'm going to have to join those criticizing this review.  It should be noted that I have never played this game and do not own it, so my criticism with this review are the rather pedestrian complaints.  The score means nothing, and as such the complaints are taken on their their face value only.

This is an ontological complaint without much merit, mainly because a lot of the times Mario Kart is won and lost is through the snatching of victory by using an item on a CPU opponents right as he would cross the finish line.  It certainly FEELS frustrating, but how would they win otherwise?  If YOU were in 2nd place, and the CPU in first was about to win, would you just let him win because you feel he's entitled to win because he's about to win?  And what is the base complaint here?  You win all the time except the times that you don't?

Previously addressed, but this is kind of a lame complaint.  For one, since Rainbow Road sorta already took place in Outer Space since the first game...  And Mario Galaxy takes place in Outer Space...  And as said before NSMB actually didn't have much in the way of unique locales that aren't already covered by "Fire Level, Ice Level" etc.

I disagree with your opinion that the Wii Wheel is seen as a handicap by most, if only because you undermined said opinion by saying you get beat by people using the Wii Wheel.  Obviously THEY don't see it as a handicap and use it to achieve victory.  I dunno what the source of the comment is.  Either bitterness over being beaten by somebody more interested in having fun (using Wheel) or being beaten by someone using a control method deemed "less effective."  As Grub stated, it is possible to mount effective and game-winning strategies using it.  It really may be a "wheel that gives more turning"

Once again, these are just functional complaints.  I'm sure when I play the game, I'll find time to agree or disagree more.

Bah complain MK Wii is the same, but then you don't use the Wheel because it's too hard.  :'( Absurd.

Wheel is great and much less sensitive than Excite Truck.  I get the sense some gamers are snobs and can't learn new tricks.  It's ok if you're not quite as good with the Wheel when you first use it as you are with the analog stick.  It's new and all.  Capeche?

A note about the bikes.  I have a feeling that everyone loves the bikes so much because Nintendo practically gimped the Karts just to give the Bikes some sort of meaning. The control almost identical to the karts but go faster and give you the ability to do wheelies. I wish they weren't introduced at the expense of the karts, considering this game is still called Mario KART.

On the wheel; I personally don't like it, but it still provides all of the functions of every other controller so I don't consider it worse. But when using it, it feels like you are steering a semi rather than a go-kart.

On the Galaxy NSMB comment: I think this just further exposes how Nintendo needs to open up Mario Kart to include the full Nintendo roster. I'd much rather see Nintendo explore other universes in Nintendo IPs than constantly stretching for new material within the Mario universe.

On the whole though, I think the game is decent, but that 7.5 just feels right to me. In order of preference I would say this is my third favorite Mario Kart behind 64 and DS respectively. I couldn't agree more about the game feeling more like a sidestep than a step forward. I see the two major accomplishments of the game being the new tracks and superb online. But the first accomplishment is nothing special because I think most Mario Kart games bring great tracks, so that doesn't really set this one out any further in front of the rest.

Bikes are handy for time trial, but in the heat of a tight race they pose no distinct advantage.

And LOL @ the suggestion that there is no galaxy themed tracks, have you played Rainbow Road?

I think the game warrants an 8.5 or 8.0 the very least, it has compelling online features the first game in North America to install a channel application to handle online features like friends list, tournament info, online records and all that fun stuff I think that feature is a nice innovation, if Nintendo and the 3rd party crew would allow optional channel installation or run the channel off the disc I'm for it.

And while it offers Wii specific control schemes with the Wii Wheel and Nunchuk+remote controllers and classic schemes with gamecube and Classic Controllers I think the Wii specific controllers win whether it is the Wheel or Nunchuk styles of control since its easier to pull off tricks for precious boost moments.

For me the best thing ever about this game is that they fixed the annoying snaking that alone makes this game amazing. For all the people whining about the rubber band AI and unbalanced items should ask themselves what Mario Kart did have balanced AI or balanced items.

Played it? I thought it was a great game!

But what I mean is that Nintendo's insistence on getting MK Wii out might have killed some potential hype and even developer time.

The earlier karts were released at a time in which nothing else was available and thus the hype was staggering. For example, Mario kart 64 was released near the beginning of the year and it quickly became the game to own, especially since the N64 was experiencing a dry spell.

Super Circuit pretty much became the GBA's poster boy, being one of the first games revealed for the handheld.

Double Dash!! did come out unexpectedly, being announced at E3 then released a few months later, but the game was likely in development for a long time (it WAS kind of unveiled at the GC's very first E3) and once again, was released at a time where Nintendo had no big games for the system.

MK DS also became the DS's main game, and once again, was Nintendo's big killer app for the DS during the fall season.

MK Wii, however, came a month after the hype that was Brawl, another online based multiplayer centric Nintendo title.

The hype for that game was ridiculous, one that was building up since the first teaser was released. MK Wii was just announced and forgotten, since all eyes were on Brawl. Nintendo then made the mistake of finally unveiling new footage and detail just as Brawl's release was getting near.

I know a lot of you were disinterested in MK Wii because all you could think about was Brawl, especially with all the rumors about new characters and such. And when MK Wii was released many were surprised that it had come out.

Sales in Japan, Europe and the US prove that the game could have been released at any time and still be a massive hit, so why was Nintendo so itching to release this NOW when people are still tinkering with Brawl?

If anything, releasing MK Wii on the summer would have...
-Created better awareness and hype for it
-Given Nintendo time to polish the game and add more features
-Given gamers a BIG killer app to look forward to during the dreaded summer dry spell

So to sum all of this, I believe the reason MK Wii is receiving so many lukewarm reactions is because it came out too soon and right after Brawl. A delay would have helped it in many ways.

Well half the world still hasn't got Brawl yet :P

I think some bikes especially the Mach Bike are completely different to karts. I agree though that karts should be a bit better.

Have you been karting before?

Yup, and I feel like this doesn't do the greatest job of emulating that experience. Excite Truck felt much better to me in terms of motion control, and Speed Racer (which I am currently reviewing) also does motion control with the Wii Wheel better than Mario Kart.

Yeah Metroid could bring never before seen locales like...  Uhhh... Outer Space, and Fire Levels...  And Zelda would bring...  Death Mountain?  Some kind of Ice Level?  This is a ridiculous idea.

Well that's an awfully restrictive way of looking at it. There have been countless unique and interesting areas in a variety of Nintendo games that include series other than Metroid/Zelda. But if we want to look at those, how about Hyrule Field or Kakariko Village, and for the Prime games, how about a "best of" level for each Prime game where you are traveling through the various areas seen in each Prime game.

Brawl certainly had no problem coming up with interesting levels and scenarios from many Nintendo games. I don't see how the idea is any more ridiculous than kart racing through the Mario universe.

Why can't this game get the Halo treatment, good reviews based off the online mode which is GREAT with single player as secondary? Well at least MK Wii did more then previous iterations than GTAIV (ZING!).

words words words. Seriously, this sort of score is nothing new for the series, and a 7.5 doesn't mean you aren't allowed to have fun. Heck, GameSpot gave Mario Kart 64 a 6.4!

There is a glaringly obvious answer: make the AI pose a real threat.  They don't need to be the god of racing like some of the later levels in F-Zero GX but they don't need to be completely incapable of driving in a straight line either.

The problem with the "you would use it too" argument is that the AI is incapable of getting you in a position where you would need to use it.  Essentially you will almost always be winning the race.  As such, the Blue Shells affect the player disproportionately

Make the AI a good challenge and then you wont need to give out stupid items like the blue shell.

Well Gamespot is stupid. Regardless I respect Johnny's opinion and think people are getting way too upset and personal with it. I may not agree with his review, but I think he brings up some legitimate points.

Personally, adding some giant floating star bits and a minor musical reference to the long-established Rainbow Road theme does not satisfy as an homage to Galaxy, and feels rather token.

I also think James is right about the AI issue - make them capable opponents that we compete with head to head, as opposed to increasing the difficulty by simply ratcheting up the frequency with which we are struck by items activated by distant, unseen opponents. Funnily enough, I think Jonny has played a Mario Kart game before and is very familiar with how the 1player mode has worked in the past, so if he singles it out for being especially frustrating, it isn't just on a whim - it's made in the context of his experience of the series as a whole.

Ultimately, I'm glad to have GP behind me with everythng unlocked and continue to enjoy racing online, which transcends a lot of these issues from 1 player and will provide a lot of fun for a long time. 

By the way the Mega Mushroom is from New SMB. An entire item dedicated to it. Not to mention the millions of Sunshine references. You know, the game NWR gave a 10?

I'm going to shorten and fix this review.

Well MK 64 is the worst in the series, I'd actually say 6.4 is a little generous.

The number isn't what people are getting into Jonny about (and I had a good laugh at IGN7.9 all over again) but rather some of the comments in the review.

I'm not going to criticise it, after all it is an opinion piece and should be treated as such. Just a couple of queries:

Sure, you're not double-dashing (it never sat well with me) but offline multiplayer Grand Prix races can be done in teams (Red Vs Blue) and is great fun because items are safe from "friendly fire". Does that fill the void?

Could you elaborate on this? It seems to be the only bad thing you can say about the online experience but I don't really understand the point you are conveying.

EDIT: argh quote tags

Well. . . .since the Wii controller was shown, a lot of people wanted motion controls for certain games including Mario Kart.  Can you imagine if they didnt put it in this game?  Reviewers would of torn it to shreds that Nintendo is supposed to be innovating the industry with this console and all they have done is put out their same old games like Smash and Mario Kart and had basic GC controls. 

I won't address every criticism of my criticism; you are all entitled to your opinions.  The review isn't meant to support or attack the view of a game that you have already established after playing it for a week or more.  I hope it is useful for people who don't already have the game and need some help deciding whether to get it.  For many people, my answer would be "yes, go get it!"

Regarding Mario's unnecessary personal attacks, I will answer that I played Mario Kart Wii for fifteen hours before publishing this review, including a couple of hours of online play and a couple of hours of local multiplayer.  I'd have liked more of the latter, but logistics always come into play.  I was contagiously sick most of the week and had two other new Wii games and a new DS game also vying for my attention, not to mention a final exam.  However, Mario Kart was my highest priority throughout, and I am very comfortable with how much time I spent playing it and thinking about it before writing my review.  This insinuation that I only played the game for two hours before reviewing it is highly offensive and frankly ridiculous given my track record at this site.  I suggest you refrain from these ad hominem attacks in the future.

Mario Kart is actually my favorite game series of all time and I certainly agree w/ this review.  Though I've had tons of fun with the new iteration and will spend months competing online, there are just too many defects preventing it from a higher score.  That said, you'll love this game if you're a fan of the series while at the same time, wishing they'd applied a bit more polish to the product. 

This is the best game of all time! Fuck anyone who disagrees.

Also the Wii Wheel is solely reserved for champions. Every day me and Mario go online with the wheel and utterly destroy thumbstick faggots. Counter-steering with the wheel feels so awesome and allows for the kind of careful precision that is impossible with the thumbstick.

The game is not perfect though. Here are the real criticisms
* Funky Kong. No one likes Funky Kong, he's a dickhead and a relic of the dark days of Rareware.
* All the Baby characters, fuck these brats. And why invent baby Daisy when baby Wario would be infinitely more hilarious?
* No Donut Plains 4, how are we supposed to separate the men from the boys?

Positives include:
* Rosalina, whom my heart aches for.
* Koopa Cape, the craziest track ever.
* Bikes
* Stunts
* Donkey Kong's successive orgasms
* Pretty much everything except for Funky Kong.

Because instead of just clicking the stick back and forth a couple of times you actually STEER AGAINST the turn to keep yourself from steering too far when drifting and then correct once your ready to straighten out and take of down the straight away.  It's a  lot deeper.  If your not sure what I'm talking about, try out the middle weight racing bikes.

QFT.

I really like the wheel too, I would definitely debate it's accuracy. I've beaten every cup on 150cc and feeling great about the wheel.

I've actually been playing with the Wiimote/Nunchuk combo, and I kind of wish that had been the "standard" control, because then they could have done something awesome using the pointer for items.

Yes, that would have been very cool. This morning I was playing Online and the game is a BLAST online, so I definitely would gravitate more towards Greg's review which put more emphasis on the online mode. One thing I do agree with Johnny on is that the series needs to be, at the very least, re imagined for the next iteration.

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LuigiHann, that is a very good idea.

Hai Guyz, what's going on in here?

Ah, controversial Mario Kart review. Only thing I'll say is I think the whole racing genre needs to be reinvented for consoles, lest it become the next 2D fighter or shmup.

Nah racing genre is too generic and Mario Kart actually appeals to girls.

This isnt controversial, go see the Mario Golf GBA review or the Super Swing Golf review talkbacks, there is some nasty commentary from the peanut gallery in both of those.

Mario Kart Wii makes Brawl look like shareware.

Here here.  Racing games haven't changed much since the 16-bit days.  Look at that Forza Motorsport pack-in for the Xbox 360; lots of shiny cars aside, it's not that different from Rad Racer.  One of the major problems with the last couple of console Mario Karts is that they were designed from the ground up with the expectation that everyone that plays them will be 19-year-olds named Brad that live with a cooperative of like-minded Brads in a dorm environment.

No offense to Brad, should you be reading this.

For more fun reading about Mario Kart Wii, I recommend Chris Kohler's review:

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/05/review-mario-ka.html

Let me say up front that I strongly disagree with Chris's review.  It focuses on the battle mode, which I don't think has been good since the first game.  But that's the part he cares about the most, so its problems hurt him more.

The comments on that page are pretty hilarious.  It didn't take long for him to give up on responding to them.

Except the part where I love MK64's battle mode and cant' stand SMKs. ;)

How exactly would you ensure that the AI isn't "cheating?"  Isn't it possible that they get blue shells as frequently as I did when I played?  How could they be more "capable" opponents?  I'm not understanding.  Does he want it like the original where you could just blow out the computer by a million miles?  This is what I mean by "ontological."  You experience being  hit by several red shells and being frustrated, when the very times the player wins are usually won in the same fashion.  Should the computer just roll over and die once we pass them and never use items ever?  Can you prove that they get items with increased intensity, or is that just your experience trying to win at a higher difficulty with less room for error?

And the "homage levels" complaint is also confusing as well parsimonious and nitpicky.  This is the first time I'm ever heard people complain about specific games not being referenced in Mario Kart.  It's sort of odd and feels like complaint fishing.  There is definitely much more variety in levels than I remember in previous Mario Karts, but that's my opinion.

I think Mario Kart's real legacy is being underrated and enjoyed otherwise, to the point that the reviews saying so are meaningless.  We reference previous games with reverence and as examples of "Mario Kart done right," forgetting that those games were given mediocre scores to begin with, including the first that if I remember correctly was called "pointless" by one reviewer.  Only Mario Kart DS avoided this, mainly by being a "normal game" in the midst of the "ZOMG NINTENDOGS IS RUINING THE INDUSTRY NON-GAMES NON-GAMERS CASUALS" mania in late 2005 concerning the DS.

This is sort of reminding me of the end to Pixar's Ratatouille.  Despite being laden with unrealistic expectation and magnified scrutiny, Mario Kart fails to deliver on said unrealistic expectations, like kart skins and Galaxy references, perfect AI in which you are happy to lose to the computer because you know for certain they passed you without any cheating, Online play which was deemed critical for Double Dash, the absence of which was the basis for several editorials, and now deemed unnecessary once "done right," Mario Kart perseveres and becomes the most played game in the generation.  I'd say this one will follow suit and make the criticisms irrelevant.

Mario Kart DS avoided criticism because the game is damn near perfect. Far and away the best Mario Kart game with the only point against it being the absence of certain tracks for online play.

My opposition with the DS was two fold: imbalance (which is a issue with the Wii, but not to the same degree) and the ability to pick any kart... which made the different characters feel rather moot. Snaking also made online not that fun I suppose.

Plus, it's not exactly ideal for playing with your friends, which for me is what Mario Kart is all about, given the handheld nature.

In the end, I prefer the Wii version over the DS one, and feel it should be hailed as the second best since the phenomenal 64 one. However, it still makes only minor changes to the formula. I think a 7.5 is too low, but transversely feel that anything higher than a 8 range is too generous as well.

Kohler's review fills me with sadness because he confirms my greatest fears.  Of course, the few times I've been able to fill four slots in Battle Mode (one of the reasons I've been looking forward to online Battle Mode), it's never lasted long before my can't-take-the-heat compatriots wanted to go back to driving in circles in random-person-wins mode, so maybe it's not as big a loss as it seems.  Still, I have one friend with the will of the warrior, and we have had some Epic matches.  Even if we can still play one-on-one, and even if the gigantic arenas aren't unplayable that way, the time limit will ruin everything.  We can go a lot longer than three minutes without either of us taking a hit, and on much smaller battlefields.  I have a feeling half of our matches would end in goose egg ties.  It would also tend to discourage combat, since someone with a lead in a timed match has more reason to hide than he does to fight.

I'll probably end up with a copy anyway, since some friends of mine have already asked me to play, assuming I'd have it day one.

If I ever see Link driving a magically-driven kart through Kakariko, I will kill you and bury your body with the E.T. cartridges where no one will ever find you.  Fair warning.  ;)

2ND PLACE AT LUIGI RACEWAY, OH YEAH

MKDS was a great game but the lack of Battle Mode online hurt it IMO.

I guess I can see that hurting it a bit, personally I'm not a big battle mode fan anyway, so it had little to no impact on me.

Mario Kart DS does only one thing better than Mario Kart Wii and that's have a map screen showing everyone's items, adding a huge layer of strategy. Then again that's not really "better", just different. Both games take advantage of their systems, but Mario Kart Wii improves the core gameplay in every single way.

Mario Kart 64 should be punted out of this discussion right now because the game is AWFUL. (LOL opinions suck)

With regard to the level themes, I too was disappointed in how generic a significant number of the tracks felt (not that this is something entirely new to the series). MK DS had some tracks that really felt embedded in parts of actual Mario games (such as Delfino Plaza, the Tick-Tock Clock track and Airship Fortress), and satisfied both as racetracks and as creative adaptations of parts of the Mario series proper. There are a few nice moments in MK Wii (like the underwater part of Koopa cape), but too often the themes feel scarcely related to Mario at all (Maple Treeway, Grumble Volcano), or are just glib nods to the Mario franchise like a character name and a giant statue (Luigi and Daisy circuits). This isn't very important in the grand scheme of things, but it adds to the feeling of the game suffering from a lack of creative flair given its many similarities with other games in the series.

To Jeff's other point: my considerable experience with the GP mode (getting all the unlockables requires getting star ranks on almost every cup in every class) has made it very clear beyond any doubt that items are deployed against you with a far higher frequency in 150cc mode than in the lower classes, and this is the primary way in which it is has been made more difficult to succeed in that competition.

We're not talking red shells here either, but rather it's the activation of blue shells, lightning bolts and POW blocks that seems to get increased the most to impede your progress. Also, this increase in item intensity and frequency has been designed to be asymmetrical; if you are in first by a long distance then it is quite likely you will be pummelled with items until you are no longer in first, whereas if you're a few spots back of an AI player you're far less likely to benefit from them suffering the same fate.

So basically Nintendo have increased the difficulty by just changing a few statistical probabilities so that they're weighted against you, and when the consequences of this are felt, it is inevitably frustrating. This is why I desire an increase in difficulty that arises from the AI racers being superior racers rather than the arbitrary dialling-up of item activation. Also, if this were the case you would be motivated to find ways to improve your own performance. In MK Wii, success is a function of possessing sufficient perseverance to try your luck enough times that success is a statistical inevitability, and therefore does not appropriately incentivise improving your racing performance. I'm not exactly sure how this could be achieved beyond just "better AI" (having an item set designed specifically for 1player GPs could help), but that's Nintendo's job, not mine.

Online play throws the shortcomings of GP into stark relief, as the items are clearly not weighted against one player in particular. This makes even the more unpleasant ones far more tolerable, as they don't occur as frequently and you will generally benefit from them as often as you suffer. Human competitors also give an idea of how much better the game could be with smarter AI; online play is just so much more fun than grinding through the GPs.

That is fair, for me I'm the opposite, Battle Mode has been my favorite mode since MK64.

The thing is that Mario Kart 64 had many tracks that were unrelated to previous Mario games, I personally think it ads to the game in that it isn't limited to "tracks from Mario games" but instead can create tracks in the spirit of Mario games.

All Mario Karts have those tracks :D

I haven't played MKW, but I've read enough about it to get the gist of the A.I. situation.

Speed Racer: The Videogame (in case you were confused about what it is the publisher reminds you it is a videogame) has good A.I.  If there is a leader (regardless if it is you) the #2 and sometimes the #3 will make moves on the leader.  Sometimes they will fail, because the leader will respond.  Sometimes they succeed and the leader gets: passed, pummeled, or rammed into a wall.  The A.I. reacts to pushes from behind by trying to block the path or avoiding attacks,

The cars and racers race differently, depending on their statistics.  You will usually win, but you will have to fight for it.  You lead isn't likely to be "safe" either.  The game will keep the heat on you WITHOUT using Rubber-band A.I.

Oh, and this game is for the DS.  MKW's A.I. issues are ridiculous if a DS game can have good A.I.

Play the game

Such an astute observation, I shall have to remember that.

The point is MKDS felt like a step forward in creatively utilising the Mario heritage, while still maintaining its own identity by including tracks that were based off previous MK tracks and creating unique new ones like Waluigi Pinball. By comparison, MK Wii seems like a backward step. Also, just because something has precedent, that doesn't mean it's commendable.

I've just got through getting 3 stars ratings on every cup in every class, and I too can confirm that the more destructive items are way more frequent in the GP modes than the online mode. For those that haven't attempted to three star a cup, you HAVE to get a first in all four races, consistently maintain your lead in those races, and fall off course/off-road as little as possible.

I would like to add that another more serious problem with the GP is the rubberbanding that goes on, mainly in the 150cc and Mirror classes. All too often, I would be running a perfect race with the fastest vehicle you could select only to be constantly trailed by my rival (the CPU character that's almost always destined to get first if you don't get first), usually driving in a much slower vehicle. You can probably guess what ends up happening at the end of the race. Blue Shell: perfect run ruined. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens nonetheless. When attempting to get 3 stars, I've had to retry cups way too many times because of this.

However, in the game's defense, there is the VS mode that a lot of people neglect to mention, where you can almost create your own custom GP against CPU racers, like how you can change the difficulty of the CPU racer and alter the frequency of the more powerful items to where the blue shell never appears.

Thank god when it's over, it's over, and you never have to play it again like that.

So what about the new Galaxy / New SMB exclusive characters? Isn't that an improvement over ROB? Also I can't be the only one who notices the Bowsers Castle Galaxy reference? I don't think there's a consistent point here at all.

Personally, I think it's the best console Mario Kart, to date.

I'm almost tempted to think that myself. It really is very good.

See how it plays when you throw the wheel INTO THE AIR.

I have to disagree, some of these unrelated tracks were some of my favorites from the series.

I agree with GP on that. I loved these new tracks. Maybe it's their uniqueness to the Mario series that creates identity? ;)

Preach it! The highway level in 64, and its later equivalents, have always been my favorite. Do those have any relevance to the Mario series? Lord no, hell I have never even seen a normal car in the Mario games outside of it. But who cares?

I personally like a mix of related and unrelated tracks personally, which have been the norm in the series now and I'm fine with that.

No way.  Snaking basically ruined playing anybody random, which forced you to only race people you knew and who agreed not to exploit this severe design flaw. Limiting the online play to 4 people meant that the 4th person would always get mega-destructive items in 4TH PLACE, meaning that having a Bullet Bill and then getting into first place normally usually meant that person would just coast to victory.  Or even worse, having lightning in first place on the last lap was just a giant "I win" sign.  That was frustrating and lame, moreso that being in first and being knocked down to 5th after being hit by a random item.  And by the way... I had MORE difficulty in MKDS's single player Grand Prix's than I had with MKWii's.

MKDS is more flawed than MK Wii, and those flaws are only polished over by it being a title nobody expected much from and then were "suddenly surprised" at how good it was, despite being about the same quality as the rest of them.  Many reviews talked about the DS's affinity for "non-games" and how it was "refreshing" to have a "real game for real gamers."

I was talking with Mario in a private chat about this and he brought up a point I think was very profound.  We both remembered how Mario Kart Double Dash lived and died on the non-existant online play and snaking and ZOMG DOUBLE KARTS.  Now that these issues have more or less been resolved, the online play in MKWii is fantasmic, Double KArts are gone and snaking terminated, suddenly we hear parsimonious and nitpicky complaints like "meh, not enough references to other Mario games" or "Creatively using the Mario Heritage" or "The AI is bad because I can't win on more difficult settings."  I think more is being said about those people than about Mario Kart.

The removal of snaking ruins this game for me and it being a design flaw is a matter of opinion. Personally, snaking forced me to think about how I used every INCH of a track and made sure that I completely perfected my technique. Playing in a group of others who also snaked only made you bring your game harder.

Now in MK Wii you move slow and can only utilize the lame tricks and turns for boosting. Sorry but it slows down the pace of the game to the point where it just bugs the hell out of me.

When Mario Kart DS came out I had plenty of other games to play that weren't "non-games" so that argument doesn't hold water, and I imagine it doesn't for many others as well considering a handheld is typically a secondary console for most and they aren't using it to get their main gaming fix.

When it comes down to it, you like the new Mario Kart sans snaking and I don't. Aside from snaking, I feel GP mode is significantly more annoying in MK Wii and that the tracks were hands down better in the DS version.

I second this. I find the AI in the Wii one to be much more forgiving, and it's also not abnormal to see the points distribute in a way that's not totally locked into just two CPUs claiming the 1-3 spots. I think the only problem with the Wii one is that you have to get a Star in each to unlock certain things, like Dry Bowser who took me awhile to get; consequently, this makes those races where you get knocked down to 5th or lower just as you have almost finished the final lap frustrating knowing that you have to now restart the whole thing.

I do agree that MKDS had the best tracks. Both the out-of-nowhere (Waluigi Pinball) and the ones pulled right from Mario history (Tick-Tock Clock, and the SMB3 references) were awesome.

Mario Kart 64 had the best set of tracks in the series, but MK Wii is a close second. MKDS loses a lot of points in this area due to creating Yoshi Falls, which someone at Nintendo must be insane enough to love because they let it into MK Wii instead of something more worthy like Airship Fortress or Tick Tock Clock.

This is right on the money. It reminds me of what Jonny said in a podcast a few episodes back. He was complaining about Mario Galaxy and said that because it's good, and he has spent a lot of time with the game because it's good, he ends up talking/complaining about it more.

Wow I though people loved Yoshi Falls, so glad to hear there are haters out there. I FREAKING HATE THAT STUPID TRACK.

Also does anyone actually like the squid item?  It really does nothing to a good or reasonably good player and I hate getting it.

I'm still deliberating whether this is the best MK or not... It could be, but  I'm very picky.

Yoshi Falls is terrible IMO, it is so uninspired. It is like a basic circular track with water you can travel through. Now the Pinball level or the Airship Level should have been in this game.

I like the kalamari item. It doesn't do much... but there are times when it becomes really troublesome. Basically, I like it because it's not hugely effective, and I think the game needs things like that to strike a good balance with other items like Bullet Bill.

Also, I fully agree with everyone... Yoshi Falls is easily my least favorite stage in Mario Kart Wii. If they wanted a simple stage, they should have used Baby Park from Double Dash. That stage, due to being so small, can be rather fun since you can easily lap people which leads to very frantic weapon crossfire which would have been great with 12 racers.

I wonder if the reason for not bringing some of the cooler stages from MKDS was because they didn't want to take the time to "update" them for Wii. The Yoshi Fall one is pretty simple to translate over compared to the more complex ones like the Airship or the Pinball one. Also I really LOVE the new track in MK Wii where you go under water (forgot the name) it is great fun.

Koopa Cape, which is a quite enjoyable stage and I love the F-Zero-like tube section (especially once the Blue Falcon is unlocked). There are a lot of great stages in MK Wii though, and oddly enough they are the ones least related to the Mario franchise like the Coconut Mall, Moonview Highway (my personal favorite), DK Summit and the simple but great Moo Moo Meadows. In fact, I really like all the new stages... except Bowser's Castle due to the one section with the fireballs.

The fall themed stage is fun as well, I love the Wiggler section.

I like Toad's Factory.  But I do like Moo Moo Farms better than Meadows.

I don't use Nintendo's "Wii Wheel". It's either the Classic Controller or the Core Gamer Wii Multi-Axis Racing System

Throw it in the air.

Wow is that a good wheel?

This level was great in Mario Kart DS for Time Trial runs, not so great in MK Wii or in GP mode in general.

I miss Baby Park.

I used to hate Yoshi Falls in DS, but now I kinda like it, it's different from the other tracks in that nobody can really break away from the field and it's refreshing after dominating Rainbow Road to be in the mid pack again thinking about items. It's no Baby Park though. Perhaps Nintendo was concerned if Baby Park was in that a lot of folks would choose it online non-stop.

That's just pure BS, stop embarrassing yourself. I bet you aren't even within 20 seconds of the top time trial times in MK Wii, going fast in MK Wii requires a LOT more technique.

I assume they chose retro stages that weren't included among the retro stages in MKDS, hence no Baby Park.

Alright I played a bunch more Battle Mode, and I gotta be honest.  It's pretty crap.  I've played several matches just spending the entire time looking for Item Boxs in hopes of finally getting some damn shells(which you almost never do!)  I mean why are shells so UNCOMMON in battle mode? It's a pain in the ass!  Thats when I lose all my balloons is trying to get to another item box. :(  And trust me, in battle mode its not fun to just be laying fake boxes and bananas whole time.  The Time limit is stupid too, it goes by too quickly.  I started playing it more because there is a third wii outfit you can unlock if you get an inhuman 15,000 points in battle mode.

But ya, it sucked.

Yeah... plus having so many computer players basically means you can sit there and not do anything and your team could just as easily win...

eh, no I've barely won one match so far.

Also, the shells are a shadow of their former selves in battle mode anyway, they don't hit much cause the courses are to damn open.

Then stages are pretty good, but I have to put in the obligatory, "where's blockfort" comment.

I actually think the new block fort stage is pretty good.

Well hello there.  I believe I've stumbled across one of those times where somebody said more about themselves than what they're talking about.  You're assuming most people think handhelds are "Secondary" because YOU think handhelds are secondary.  Any Big time RPG fan will bust your nut for that, considering the DS is where the most new and big named RPG are this generation.  Is Pokemon "secondary?"  Considering it has sold more than all of the "next gen" consoles combined, I'd say there are scores of people for whom the DS is where it's at.  That is to say, MOST gamers own a DS, and it has sold THE MOST games this generation, making it the PRIMARY game platform, for MOST.

Besides, my comments regarding non-games were in the context of Mario Kart's legacy with reviewers that may include, but is not limited to you.  You can't deny the talking points of the big name sites and journalists as they worked up faux outrage over non-games, even to the point of editorializing reviews to be more about the DS/Wii than the game they're talking about reviewing.  Three months before Mario Kart DS was released, Nintendo hit and began its meteoric rise, all with IGN and Gamespot and IGSpot and GameGN all bemoaning just how terrible the Nintendogs ad was and how we'll all have to trade in our DS's because girls will own one and ZOMG Panic Panic from the single twenty-somethings and thirty-somethings.  Given the Context, no wonder they were able to see past MKDS's flaws and champion it, because the alternate would be a world filled with Nintendogs and brain games.

No what snaking DID was make everybody use the same kart and do exactly the same motions.  It "tiered" Mario Kart and made it boring to play online with people more interested in their "records" than enjoying the game.  I was just lucky I had a lot of friends who thought snaking was crap too, otherwise MKDS's online would have been awful.  Friend Codes save the day.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that unlockable was proven false. Some people recently cracked the game disk, and found no such thing. Plus, the VR points maxs out at 9999.

Nah it's crap feels too wide open, the block fort of the day made strategy shots awesome and there were three levels to be on and all the levels were connected.  You'd always be setting up you "base" with bananas and getting shells together etc.  It was actually FUN.

deathstar45, if that is true, then talk to GameFaqs, they just posted that unlockable today.

Battle Mode online is a lot better online than with CPUs, maybe just because it's all humans, and you should try Coin Runners, it's the better than any other non-Balloon battle mode in the series.

Well I'm not going to turn this thread into a petty flame fest. It seems to me that people here don't like snaking and that apparently makes Mario Kart DS crap, and that's fine, it doesn't have any effect on what I like or dislike about this game. As I stated before I think the track designs of Mario Kart DS were better and more interesting, and I think that GP wasn't nearly as annoying as it is in Mario Kart Wii. I also despise the inclusion of the bikes. It is Mario KART not Mario goes Offroading. The bikes are clearly superior to the karts, so they get used exclusively which just annoys the hell out of me.

I completely disagree with the relevance of the DS situation upon the release of Mario Kart DS, and the relevance of reviewers' opinions. The game stands on it's own right; that situation doesn't dictate the merits of the game.

As far as time trials go, I AM within 20 seconds of the top ten for the current competition after playing the race a grand total of 2 times. I haven't played the time trials as I am still plodding through the GP mode. In regards to technique, the game doesn't have any special technique that couldn't be applied to the Mario Kart series as a whole aside from the things I've mentioned. Typically, if you are good at one, you are good at the others.

I don't know about the bikes being "clearly" superior. I mean the karts can:

Draft which activates pretty quick in this one.
They also get to boosts when drift. Very useful.

Bikes can't touch that.

You can draft in the bikes as well, it is just harder and takes longer. The boosting doesn't seem to make up for the speed either. The fact that people using bikes are dominating the online leaderboards is very telling.

If you don't like bikes, don't use them. Bikes are not clearly better than karts, i've got 8000+ points on a kart. Bikes get BELTED around in races, doing wheelies means you can barely turn at all and even GREEN SHELLS are a danger, and it takes bikes a lot longer to get back up to speed. Bikes may be 3-4 seconds quicker than Karts on most tracks in TIME TRIAL (not all tracks, karts dominate some, CHECK THE WORLD RECORDS GOD), but in a race they are not superior.

You haven't even TRIED time trial? You have no CLUE how much time you're losing. I feel like I just wasted my time, I can't take you seriously anymore.

Nobody said that.

As will MKWii stand on it's own right, regardless of whatever reviewers say.  It's exactly how all those old "classic" Mario Karts did it.  Apparently this entire series is built on games that get mediocre reviews, save one special case in which the lowered expectations of a handheld and the first real online attempt coupled with widespread non-game anxiety.

I think Mario summed that up very well, but from my own experience this is just false.  Nobody ever won any race simply because they used bikes.

... ... and hypothetically, SO WHAT IF THEY ARE SUPERIOR?  You need a whole lot more skill to win on the Mach Bike than the Dragster, which would require knowledge of every inch of the track and perfect your technique with the bike.  And playing in a group of bikes only made you bring your game harder.  So what Bikes should be stripped because they are clearly superior and threaten the... what?  So they should be taken out because you don't like them but all those who didn't like snaking should just go hang?  You've undermined your own point.

Except for the fact that they aren't. Play the game some more, Jack. I know it'll be difficult for you after the rubbish that was snaking in MK DS since you'll actually have to learn the tracks now, but there's no real advantage of bikes over karts.

Uhh no snaking really took a  lot of knowledge of the tracks.  Do not doubt that, if you didn't know how to enter a corner as snaker, you could screw yourself bad.

I'm indifferent about snaking.

a) I don't play Time Trial until after I beat the rest of the game
b) As I stated earlier, and as DAaaMan64 pointed out, being good at snaking meant knowing every bend of the stage
c) If bikes are better for Time Trial, who cares about anything else? You may as well roll a dice in GP because even if you race perfectly it's no guarantee that you are going to win. AND I'm saying bikes are annoying because this is MARIO KART, and they outshine the damn karts. That is a personal feeling, NOBODY is forced to agree with me, I couldn't care less.
d) Finally, I agree, Mario Kart Wii will stand on it's own right, no one said it couldn't.

I have decided in response to all of these enlightening comments I will change my opinion of Mario Kart Wii, it is now my favorite Mario Kart! Congratulations you win the thread!

To be good at playing the game means you must know every corner of every stage. This is also the the dynamic in any racing game ever. It is also the case when racing in real life.

Also I don't understand this logic. Bikes don't outshine the kart when playing the game apart from Time Trial. They don't have an advantage in Grand Prix. They don't have an advantage in Versus. The don't have an advantage in Battle. The game is called MARIO KART, not RACE AROUND A TRACK ALL ALONE WITH NINTENDO CHARACTERS AND THREE MUSHROOMS.

The biggest complaint I have with it is they make you pick your character and options AFTER you join a game, and therefore have to impose a time limit on it.  This means best case scenario, you are waiting for people to make their selections, and worst case scenario you run out of time looking at all the different cart options and end up with the cart you didn't want, a character you didn't want and automatic drifting, which you probably didn't want.  Why in the world wouldn't they let you select all this stuff BEFORE joining a game?

All you people saying bikes are unbeatbale need to watch the world record times on DK Mountain and Yoshi Falls.

I love it. The "Wii Wheel" is useless to me, since it isn't attached to a base. This wheel offers a bit of resistance when turning and returns to "zero" position. There are mixed reviews on GameStop's site though. Apparently these things break easily (the springs break) and it's widespread. My first one broke after about 5 minutes of gameplay. I had bought one for my friend and his held up after several hours of continuous use. My 2nd one seems to be fine, too.

Stop right there.  This undermines your idea for them to open up Mario Kart to other Nintendo IP.  While it is true that it is MARIO KART, it is also true that it is MARIO KART, and thus unable to be invade by Samus and her Go Kart and Link and his Go Kart and the Ice Climbers and their sidecar bike.  (UH OH, CONFLICTING IDEA APPROACHING)

This sort of indignant sarcasm is uncalled for.

Before I get into it I have to say that Mario is the man of the thread.  That's all.

My 2 cents, even though I've mentioned it before.  The review is crap.  This is the best, most hardcore feeling Mario Kart game ever and I've played all of them.  The wheel is damn great, and you better believe I'll be using this with Need For Speed Carbon and especially Pro Street.  I played all of Carbon with control method 1 which is virtually identical to the wheel setup with this game and outside of some initial getting used to it, it works extremely well, especially for drift courses.  Speaking of which, this is NFS Carbon Wii launch all over again, those who "get it" thought it was one the coolest things ever and it sold the game and idea to them. 

As far as the rest of the game is concerned, WHAT THE HECK?  Too many items to worry about in 150cc?  Get real, they usually let you win if you race well enough by screwing over the CPU in first.  As far as staying in first, if you know how to play proper defense it's not an issue.  Even online, 95% of the time, the BEST people still win irregardless of the amount of opposition.  Rarely do I ever end up eating more than one blue shell.  It's like people are trying to make this out to be a stupid plastic dog of a game and yet the amount of strategy with the inclusion of the bikes, stunts, and new items is FAR more than MKDS and even most of the others even hoped to ever have.  It's a whole new damn game and I love the hell out of it for it.

I think there are a lot more blue shells in 50 cc then there are in 150 cc

I don't if they were friends or what, but I played several matches and this one guy always got first place. Anytime I would get into first place the SAME guy way in the back of the pack would shoot me with a blue shell, yet I think he only got hit once during 6 different matches. One time I was just yards away from the goal and got whacked by a blue shell and he got first place.

All I'm hearing is "wah wah wah i suck at online"

I could use that kind of luck, as mine is absolutely horrible online... ='D

Because I can help that there were two friends playing at once, one hanging back to get blue shells and the other trying to get first. That combined with the fact you cannot dodge a blue shell when your so close to the finish line, your skills have little to do with it. Really though I found it more funny then "annoying".

If I ever become reviews editor, all reviews will end with:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/zCrimm/someone-with-a-different-opinion.gif

People with a different opinion from me should be arrested, so you should modify that.