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3DS

Miyamoto: 'I Wanted to Experience Hyrule in 3D'

by Pedro Hernandez - March 16, 2011, 9:12 am PDT
Total comments: 28 Source: http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/how..., (Iwata Asks)

Nintendo's famed game designer explains to Iwata why he wanted to remake Ocarina of Time in 3D.

One of the main reasons Ocarina of Time was remade in 3D for the 3DS was because Shigeru Miyamoto, the title's original director and producer, wanted to experience the game in a new dimension.

In the latest installment of Iwata Asks, the Nintendo President sits down with Shigeru Miyamoto to talk about his upcoming Nintendo 3DS projects: Ocarina of Time 3D and Star Fox 64 3D. 

One of the main points of discussion is the motivation for remaking these games. In the case of Ocarina of Time, Miyamoto simply wanted to see the world of Hyrule in 3D.

"The biggest reason for me personally was that I myself wanted to see the majestic scenery of Hyrule in stereoscopic 3D..."

Regarding the Star Fox 64 3D remake, Miyamoto explains that depth of field was always important in that game. The 3D remake will allow players to distinguish the scrolling scenery easier.

The games were also remade because the original hardware didn't allow for more elaborate designs. Miyamoto notes that "at the time [of the N64 releases], we'd barely gotten the games to move in terms of the polygon counts or wire frame processing."

Miyamoto also elaborated on Ocarina of Time 3D's menu system, stating that the game will use the system's buttons as well as a new touch screen menu system.

Talkback

SupaKirbMarch 16, 2011

So far the only games I want are both remakes. Ocarina, and Star Fox 64. But they really need to make a new Star Fox game... remakes are okay, but at the end of the day that is what they are, just remakes. They don't add to the story, they just repeat it. So for now... I will go with this entire remake movement Nintendo has going on... but I expect some new games, (hopefully with the rest of the franchises as well, and not just Mario.)

StogiMarch 16, 2011

Hahahaha Miyamoto's a selfish conceited bastard. I love it!

broodwarsMarch 16, 2011

Well, you can't fault the guy's honesty.  And what Miyamoto wants, Miyamoto apparently gets.  I just wish he wanted to Experience a new Hyrule in 3D with a new Zelda game, rather than tweaking Ocarina of Time.

StogiMarch 16, 2011

Ehh...Tweak now; game later.

GoldenPhoenixMarch 16, 2011

Quote from: SupaKirb

So far the only games I want are both remakes. Ocarina, and Star Fox 64. But they really need to make a new Star Fox game... remakes are okay, but at the end of the day that is what they are, just remakes. They don't add to the story, they just repeat it. So for now... I will go with this entire remake movement Nintendo has going on... but I expect some new games, (hopefully with the rest of the franchises as well, and not just Mario.)

So Kid Icarus is a remake? Or the newly announced Mario game for 3DS is a remake? Seriously while they have these remakes they have new games as well. It is pretty balanced actually. Let's not forget Pilotwings and Steel Driver, while the jury is still out on them they are not remakes

KDR_11kMarch 16, 2011

Oh, like 3D makes some huge difference. Who cares?

Quote from: broodwars

I just wish he wanted to Experience a new Hyrule in 3D with a new Zelda game, rather than tweaking Ocarina of Time.

I'm guessing this is all Iwata is willing to let him do until Skyward Sword is done.

Luigi DudeMarch 16, 2011

Yeah, considering nearly all of EAD 3 is working on Skyward Sword at the moment it would be impossible for Nintendo to have made an all new 3D Zelda for the 3DS this year.  Not only that, but kind of doubt we'll ever get a brand new 3D Zelda like the home consoles games on the 3DS since unlike Mario who sells the same on home consoles and portables the Zelda series sells much better on home consoles.

After Skyward Sword, I'd imagine they'll have the main team work on a new 3D Zelda for the Wii's successor and any Zelda for the 3DS will either be more remakes or shorter Zelda games like Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks that are made by a small sideteam.

nhainesMarch 16, 2011

Am I the only one who really, really wants Windwaker on 3DS?

rlse9March 16, 2011

We all know the real reason this game is being made is that it's going to print money.  Not that there's anything wrong with that, but that's main reason it's being made.  It's cool that they're making major improvements to the game but how many times do they need to re-release it?

MaryJaneMarch 16, 2011

@nhaines

You are definitely not alone. I'm not good at ranking my favorites, but Wind Waker is one of my favorite Zeldas, right in the mix with OoT, TP, and LttP.

To put WW on the 3DS they would really have to fix the draw distance for 3D viewing. But the game would look awesome if the did it; so much of that game was about the visuals it might actually be the best Zelda game to remake in 3D.

As for OoT 3D I'm greatly looking forward to that, and I'm glad there was an artistic motivation behind its remaking. I also hope that Miyamoto directed the transition.

Ian SaneMarch 16, 2011

Sounds like BS to me.  He can experience Hyrule in 3D with a new Zelda game.  Practically every Zelda game takes place in Hyrule anyway.

I'm quite certain the real reason is that remaking old games in 3D takes less effort than making something brand new.  This is especially beneficial during a launch period when there are not many titles available and a remake is something that can be easily produced in time.

Did Miyamoto have some reason for launching the GBA and DS with remakes of Super Mario Bros 2 and Super Mario 64 as well?  This the trend.  Nintendo realized that people will buy whole new systems to play games they already own and they're exploiting it.  I expect the 3DS to be crawling with ports like the GBA was.  Probably the only reason they didn't keep up with the N64 ports on the DS was because the lack of an analog stick goofed Super Mario 64's controls.

Jamaican Mario ScholarMarch 16, 2011

The first thing Miyamoto wants to do with brand new, glorious handheld 3D technology is look at 64-era scenery? give me a freakin break. if he had said Malon, then ok....

OblivionMarch 16, 2011

Quote from: Ian

Sounds like BS to me.  He can experience Hyrule in 3D with a new Zelda game.


Obviously he meant actual 3DS instead of polygons. I'm pretty sure none of the previous Zelda's have been in 3D.

Quote from: IHeartFrodo69xoxo

The first thing Miyamoto wants to do with brand new, glorious handheld 3D technology is look at 64-era scenery? give me a freakin break. if he had said Malon, then ok....


It's OoT. That's the whole point. It will sell, sell, sell.

Ian SaneMarch 16, 2011

Quote:

Obviously he meant actual 3DS instead of polygons. I'm pretty sure none of the previous Zelda's have been in 3D.


What are you talking about?  "New Zelda" means a brand new game designed specifically for the 3DS.  He could have made a brand new 3DS Zelda game to see Hyrule in 3D.

OblivionMarch 16, 2011

Hold your horses. I misread your comment.

The simple reason why he didn't is because it's a million times easier to release a previously made game then create an entirely new one from scratch.

A Link to the Past 3DS would have been more interesting, but obviously a lot more work, for possibly less return.
The same unfortunately goes for Star Fox.

MaryJaneMarch 16, 2011

Why would LttP, a smaller game in scope and polygon count, be more work than OoT? Also, I don't think the top down perspective would benefit from 3D as much as OoT's rolling hills, deep lakes, and cavernous dungeons.

It is likely that Nintendo planned to launch with two remakes, and they decided by asking which games would show off 3D most, and were fan favorites (so they would sell), then Miyamoto says, "You know, I always wanted to see Hyrule in 3D." Which could be why WW wasn't the choice, that and people are single-minded they can't get passed the cel shading which was awesome and worked really well.

Miyamoto is an artist, and a revered one. Iwata is a business man and a good one, who does these Iwata Asks to show us normal people a side of Nintendo we can't see otherwise. Obviously Nintendo is after money, but the Iwata Asks let us know there was ALSO an artistic motivation.

Because OoT is in 3D already so they can just modify the existing engine. They'd have to do LttP from scratch.

GoldenPhoenixMarch 16, 2011

Quote from: MaryJane

@nhaines

You are definitely not alone. I'm not good at ranking my favorites, but Wind Waker is one of my favorite Zeldas, right in the mix with OoT, TP, and LttP.

To put WW on the 3DS they would really have to fix the draw distance for 3D viewing. But the game would look awesome if the did it; so much of that game was about the visuals it might actually be the best Zelda game to remake in 3D.

As for OoT 3D I'm greatly looking forward to that, and I'm glad there was an artistic motivation behind its remaking. I also hope that Miyamoto directed the transition.

Oh yes! A 3D remake of Wind Waker would be fantastic, it would be a 3D cartoon. Maybe they could even throw in a couple of the dungeons that were left out of the game because of time constraints. Better yet if not Wind Waker do another 3D Zelda (and I mean over the shoulder 3D Zelda, not the ones for the DS) with the same visual style.

Nintendo also does remakes for the same reason Namco launches every system with Ridge Racer: it lets them focus on learning the intricacies of the hardware by doing something they already know how to do well.

I think 3D Wind Waker would be harder because a lot of the cartoon effects are contingent on using visual tricks that only work properly on a 2D projection.

MaryJaneMarch 17, 2011

Hate to keep disagreeing with you MB, but I do again. I think a lot of the of the visual effects of WW would look great in 3D; the puff of smoke when enemies die, the dust when Link slides or rolls, and how could would it to be see Link's eyes following something that was floating outside of the screen? The giant weapons, the hordes of enemies, and of course the ocean (with a fixed draw distance, especially for distant islands) would all also look good in 3D.

As for OoT vs LttP, like I said I'm not a programmer, but I don't think the original rendering of the game makes much of a difference. Link was a 3D sprite in LttP, and I would think that in OoT, despite the 3D models, a lot of things would have to be recoded to actually be displayed in 3D because they were programmed before to display only one side at a time, which I think is why holes would appear in certain things and people you got too close to or sort of went through (hopefully that is fixed). Then there's also the fact that despite LttP being an older game, it looked smoother because of the sprites, and wouldn't have to be graphically updated much. Whereas OoT looked cool, but had a lot of jagged polygons and the problem I mentioned above, and would need those kinks ironed out for a modern remake.

Lastly, unless I am mistaken, this is the first time OoT is being remade. It has been rereleased, but this time it is being updated and I'm looking forward to the results. LttP was remade, even slighty improved upon, but the graphics remained largely the same, though that might have been system limitations, and not what I imagine it to be.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorMarch 17, 2011

Quote from: Ian

Nintendo realized that people will buy whole new systems to play games they already own and they're exploiting it.

Come on, Ian... I know you hate ports and remakes and all, but be honest - very few people likely bought a GBA for Mario Advance or a DS for Super Mario 64 DS.  Yes, they bought those games, but I'd say the majority of people bought the systems for other games (or promises of other games) and just bought the remakes because - honestly - they're good games.

Quote from: MaryJane

I think a lot of the of the visual effects of WW would look great in 3D

I didn't say Wind Waker couldn't look good, I said it would be technically very hard to reproduce those 2D cartoon effects and have them look right in 3D since the tricks they use to achieve them wouldn't display properly in 3D. The reason is that the models still have 3D shape, even though they look like 2D cartoons. This 3D information would somehow have to be flattened within individual models, yet kept intact with respect to other objects on the screen in order for stereoscopic 3D to look right. And then there could be a problem with stereo fusion. This is probably why there are no 3D movies that use the technique (correct me if you know of any).

Quote from: MaryJane

Link was a 3D sprite in LttP

There's no such thing as a 3D sprite.

Quote from: MaryJane

I would think that in OoT, despite the 3D models, a lot of things would have to be recoded to actually be displayed in 3D because they were programmed before to display only one side at a time, which I think is why holes would appear in certain things and people you got too close to or sort of went through (hopefully that is fixed). Then there's also the fact that despite LttP being an older game, it looked smoother because of the sprites, and wouldn't have to be graphically updated much.

And as for models not having back sides in OoT, that's a simple optimization that could be removed from the engine, given the increased power.
A 2D game remade with polygons would need essentially everything remade from scratch. Not at all the case with Ocarina, though certainly there is still work to be done. Stereoscopic 3D display from a 3D game comes almost automatically since all you have to do is render the same scene from two perspectives (except for a few special cases like the cartoon shading mentioned above).

Quote from: MaryJane

I'm not a programmer

Obviously.

Jamaican Mario ScholarMarch 17, 2011

Quote:

Miyamoto: ...one thing I remember very well from that time was when my wife saw our child playing Ocarina of Time. She said, "When I'm just looking at it, I think it's pretty, but I'd never want to try it." I thought, "Something has to be done about this!" (laughs).

Iwata: Yes, I remember that (laughs).

Miyamoto: I mean, she'd never really cared about games at all before, and here she was, finally showing an interest, and yet… It felt as though a customer had come right up to the entrance, but then she'd turned around and gone back home.

Iwata: The roots of your later "expanding the gaming population" concept can be traced to that incident, right?

Miyamoto: They can (laughs). I thought, "No! I was so close!" That's what started it.

Thought this quote was at least interesting. MM wasn't exactly expanded audience friendly but Smash Brothers, Paper Mario, and Luigi's Mansion definitely were on that track.

MaryJaneMarch 17, 2011

@MB
Lol! Thanks for the explanation, and I hope I didn't sound arrogant or presumptious.

For WW, I'm not sure I understand what you mean about flattened cartoon effects. I saw a tech-demo at NJIT last week of cartoon gags remade in 3D. One of the ones I thought looked best was a flattened Daffy Duck rocking back and forth as he floated slowly to the ground (like a piece of paper or feather). So it can be done, but I don't know what specific elements of WW you mean. A lot of the cartoon effects were in 3D I thought, but I did misread your original comment on WW.

As for LttP in 3D, like I said and you restated so eloquently, I'm not a programmer, but I'm very 'into' 3D. I know about basically dual displaying an image to create 3D, but as that is what they did for Clash of the Titans with subpar results, I hope that isn't what Nintendo did for OoT. The new conversion process Hollywood studios are trying is basically the dual image trick, and then drawing in additional visual cues with CGI. I was thinking Nintendo, for whom quality is everything, would redraw/recode the game to be viewed in 3D, rather than go the cheap way which often leads to the cardboard cut-out look. And from the preliminary reviews of OoT, it seems they went the quality route.

Edit: @Frodo
That is an interesting quote and just goes to show that women really do control the world, even if they don't mean to... Miyamoto's wife inadvertently partially led to the greatest shift in video game history, by being disinterested in video games. What's MM though? That kind of came out of nowhere without any reference.

Ian SaneMarch 17, 2011

I'm assuming any 3D remake of A Link to the Past would use polygons.  Switching a sprite game to polygons would be like making a new game.  With Ocarina of Time they can take the existing game, port it over to the 3DS, and then replace the existing models and textures with better ones.

For LttP in 3D to really mean squat it would have to be reworked into a full 3D (as in polygons; stupid Nintendo goofing up our old terms) game.  LttP uses a fixed top down view.  Seeing THAT in 3D would be pretty lame.  So they would need to convert it to full 3D where you're going to need a controllable camera and probably z-targetting and the whole works.  Meanwhile since LttP was designed to show only one screen at a time it's current layout might not work in 3D where you can see far off in the horizon.  There might be points in LttP that the draw distance could go on for miles and that hardware can't handle it without pop-up.  So they would have to tinker with the layout to get it to work.  Plus because it uses one screen at a time it might goof up certain puzzles.  Or because the enemies could pursue you off their individual screen the difficulty might be thrown out of whack with hugely difficult areas caused by enemies "seeing" you before they could in LttP and pursuing you when you're aleady dealing with several enemies from the current screen.  It is not even close to a quick port job.

Unless you just want to see sprites in front of your face like some 3D Sega Master System game.  I think OoT would be more impressive.

@MaryJane:
The difference is in how stereoscopic 3D is generated. For 3D (polygon) games, all of the information is already there, you basically just have to set the camera from two different angles, and BAM, stereoscopic 3D.
For cartoons (not Pixar/Dreamworks) and movies where they didn't use multiple camera for filming, you have multiple flat planes, which have to be manually positioned.
With Wind Waker, you have 3D models, but they used cel-shading to make them look more 2D. The problem is that there is still an invisible third dimension, which would become apparent to the eyes if you used the first method for generating the stereo video. It's hard to describe, but everything would probably end up looking like plastic. It would work, but it would lose some of the cartoon animation quality. I'm sure there are ways around it, but it would be tricky to do, especially in real-time.

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