i quite like this idea. its cool how back to basics nintendo is getting, yet they still have a very relevant product

I'm sure they will do a good job, but I like the hubs (even though the one in Super Mario Galaxy was not as big as Super Mario 64).

Galaxy's hub was one of its few flaws.  I'm very happy to see this change.  Galaxy 2 seems to focus on interesting level designs, so a map makes it much quicker to get to the point.

It's going to feel a little sad to not have a pseudo-home in the game, but I do appreciate the quicker access to levels.

I don't mind it at all. Mario games are supposed to be platformers and having a central hub or overworld or whatever makes it feel more like an adventure game. I don't really feel a game of this type should have much in the way of exploration, the challenge is about getting things done, not figuring things out. This game seems even more to strive for pure platforming than Super Mario Galaxy did, and as far as I'm concerned, that can only be a good thing.

They're going to simplify it for dumb people and make the game harder at the same time?

Why can't they use the Super Guide to tell the player what to do next?

If Nintendo isn't going to do a better job of designing these hubs and making them fun to explore, then I guess a simple map is preferable. However, the maps in both NSMB games are pretty bad themselves. You can either do a clean, fast menu or create an integrated world, but these compromises in-between don't work for me.

It's not just for dumb people.  It lets you jump right into the action, rather than climbing through the station to get to the observatories, to get to the level you want to play.

I never, NEVER liked the hub worlds in the 3-D Mario games. While they are fun to dick around with (if you crack the game code that is... which I can't do), I preferred the traditional Mario platforming.

I love this news so much.

[quote author=Jonnyboy117 link=topic=30916.msg595120#msg595120 date=1269315618 However, the maps in both NSMB games are pretty bad themselves. You can either do a clean, fast menu or create an integrated world, but these compromises in-between don't work for me.
Menus are boring. NSMBWii brought back nostalgia with it's world map, and I love it.

I prefer the traditional map too. The hub aspect of Super Mario Galaxy is actually one of the things keeping me back from finishing it. Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine pull it off nicely, but all the extra hoops to get to where you want to go in SMG make it actually kind of annoying.

I actually liked the hub worlds...

So, are the nodes on that map individual levels (er, stars) or whole areas (like the galaxies in SMG)? In the former case it replaces the buffet style level selection of 3D Mario with the more linear structure of 2D Mario, in the latter, not so much. The former would be preferable because it makes you do specific levels instead of picking different ones until you've completed a set number. No need to worry about what level would be a good choice, just select the next level and fight until you beat it.

N/A

I always wondered why Nintendo dropped the 2-player turn taking with Mario 64. True, turns could take a lot longer, but it would have been nice to have the option.

We still know very little about SMG2 so it might still be a possibility.
The Galaxy titles are more linear and platform-based than Mario's other 3D adventures so the turn-taking would be more appropriate. The other player could take on cursor-duties and collect stars while waiting. There could even be the option to swap characters at will

Ok here's a tantalizing possibility. Could Galaxy 2 feature the Koopa Kids now that they've been reintroduced in NSMBWii?
How amazing would it be if each Koopa Kid had his/her own planet to lord over.

I enjoyed Sunshines hub world the best, but in the end, it becomes a distraction to the game.

The hub in 64 was perfection. The hubs in Sunshine and Galaxy were very interesting but ultimately too spread out, which made jumping from level to level a bit tiresome. I'd prefer a well thought out hub by I guess it's not that big of a deal. It should certainely make collecting all thestars more effecient.

meh if it wasn't for how I felt the first time playing 64's hub world, I don't think I would remember it so fondly (although paintings as levels is still fucking genius). One of the best parts of that hub was looking up towards to Sun Mural and instantly being dropped into the sky, but that would only work occasionally. Why I like Sunshine's world so much is because I could water ski endlessly!

I kind of like the idea of hub-world for the 3D games and world map for the 2D ones.  It's no big loss but I liked that as a distinction between the two types.

Miyamoto's explanation though comes across as a polite way of saying "we're dumbing it down for stupid rubes who can't figure out what to do next."  If you honestly get lost in a 3D Mario game I'm surprised you can find the room where you keep your TV and Wii in the first place.  Nintendo really does give people way too little credit.  Non-gamers are not nearly as helpless as they think they are.  We live in the age of electronics.  You can't survive if you're that stunned.

This is a good idea.  For a game Metroid Prime, a good hub is essential for maintaining continuity and immersion (the gunship worked as well), but Mario games don't need that kind of immersion.  Miyamoto is always full of great ideas.

The hub world was the best map in Mario Sunshine.

I liked Rosalina's floating place in Galaxy too.

Both were good design wise, but they really broke up the flow.

Not really. The hubs gave a sense of continuity to the game and were interesting to explore.

The last 2 hubs weren't interesting to explore.  Lots of "neener-neener, this ___ is locked so you can't go there yet despite being in plain view" with nothing out of the ordinary too find.  Castle64 actually had the joy of discovering new paintings/stages and pathways, but that was a lead-in to 3D Zelda.

What about the people who don't WANT to decide what to do next, who want the next level presented to them with a note attached "beat this" instead of shopping around for the path of least resistance? For an example Reflect Missile lets you pick any level of the given set at will but I usually set it to randomly serve me levels that I haven't beaten yet because I know that if I get a big selection I'll be weighting choices against each other like which level looks beatable, in random I get challenges thrown at me with no regard for what I think of them which forces me to adapt and improvise and ultimately is more fun. With a buffet style if a level is hard I'm tempted to go elsewhere, with a world map I have a reason to keep trying.

I disagree, I think Sunshine had one of the best gaming hubs, period. Tons to explore yet everywhere was pretty easily accessible as well.

The only thing annoying about Sunshine's hub was any place you had to travel to with a Yoshi. I think there was one place you had to get to by riding a really slow-moving boat, it was so boring.

Yeah that part was lame, but really SMS's hud was fantastic in how it all integrated with the worlds as well, I remember trying to figure out where I was in relation to the town in a world for fun, something that would be expanded upon with Wuhu island.SMS gets a lot of crap but it has the most cohesive world and setting of any of the Mario game.

The hub was very good in Sunshine, but the game itself had some relatively bland levels (too much of the same or similar theme).

I loved Sunshine's hub for the first few stars because stuff kept happening but when that ran out the whole thing got boring and a chore.

I loved the variety in Sunshine levels, they tried to do different things with each world while maintaining the same theme. Also Delfino Plaza was anything but a chore to play in, it was a living, breathing place.

Yeah Delfino plaza was awesome. Running around and discovering new places like the coin tunnels, using the water nozzles to unlock new things. It was a great map.

I liked the Amusement park and the Beach too, they felt very much like open worlds to explore.

Very true. I think people put too much emphasis on the levels having a tropical setting and don't realize how diverse each world was. The amusement park had very different things to do then let's say the Hotel. Gosh I want to play SMS again now lol.

It was. But that isn't what Mario games are supposed to be about. The Super Mario Galaxy games are much closer to being Super Mario Brothers in 3D.

SM64 wasn't a Mario game either then. Really the Mario series has been evolving since SMB.

I didn't say it wasn't a Mario game, just that it deviated from a traditional Mario game. And yes, Super Mario 64 did the same. It doesn't mean I didn't enjoy them (Super Mario 64 is one of my favourite games), but I'm glad that Super Mario Galaxy 2 is returning to the series' roots, so to speak. Now we just need a two-player mode...

Super Mario Bros. didn't even have a world map. Super Mario Bros. 3 was the first to introduce it, so SMG2 is not returning to the roots of the series.

Semantics. :P I just mean the 2D games as a whole, really.
Technically, wouldn't the roots of the series be Donkey Kong?

I am so thankfull the jumping stopped being ass in 1985. =P

i would be dissapointed at the lack of hub, but i think they have done hubs to death in mario, plus it makes 2 player mode and even co-op mode more likely

I thought Peach's castle in SM64 was brilliant, and although I'm not a huge fan of Sunshine, Delfino Plaza is a bright spot in the game.  That said I think getting away from a hub is the right choice for Galaxy 2.  The starship in Galaxy 1 was uninteresting, provided nothing to explore and was just an obstacle slowing me from playing the actual game.

I just hope Nintendo doesn't expect this change to bring the game closer to NSMBWii sales.  2D Mario is simply more popular than 3d Mario, and that won't ever change.

I think the lack of hub is a good thing if you aren't going to spend time on it, it was obvious in Mario Galaxy the hub was pretty much an after thought.

I'm approaching this decision the same way I had to approach a lot of stuff recently in Final Fantasy XIII: if Nintendo's not going to make interesting hub worlds with places to explore and things to find, it's better to bring the game back to the basics and focus on what they do well (or often in Nintendo's case, what they can do cheaply and without much effort but nonetheless do solidly).  I'll take this style of hub world over the snore-fest that was Galaxy's or the even worse one that was Sunshine's any day.

I would love to have Sunshine's again. It was easily one of the best hub worlds a platform game has had, and it actually unified the whole game.

Yeah, I liked the Sunshine hub when stuff was happening there.

what would be better than a hub would be sewer system interconnecting all the levels, obviously since its Mario it doesn't have to make sense.

I suggested an ever expanding universe of planets and stages. There are no stars; just platforming heaven.

Like Mario & Luigi: Bowsers Inside Story?

That level interconnectedness made absolutely no freaking sense at all.

This except when you entered the sewers it went to old school arcade Mario Brothers for the sewer travel between worlds and you could stay there and fight enemies for points and such.

This proves that Mario is really a Slider and those pipes warp him to alternate dimensions with different realities.

Well, Paper Mario TTYD did that to some degree and Mario is a plumber and all but sewers just have a terrible reputation in gaming.