I'm surprised you guys reported on this, but you know I'm gonna have link drop up in here.
1 to the rumor thread and another to the "what do you want from the DS2" thread.


I'm really not expecting this to be revealed until at the very least E3, but more likely at a Japanese event like TGS or something.

This doesn't mean a DS2 is imminent. Games of any real length and quality typically take a year or two to develop. Its important that developers get the kits so they can have titles ready for launch, but assuming they are just starting RIGHT NOW these games are still going to take awhile to complete.

What this means is I highly doubt there will be a DS2 this year. The hardware is probably finalized for it, but what is Nintendo going to do? Launch a system with no finished games? I don't think so. More likely we will see it launch Holiday 2011. But like I said, the games for the launch REALLY need to be getting underway right now because they take time.

Well to my understanding, a hardware maker will send out alpha dev kits with rough specs that they are aiming for so that developers can get started month in advance of getting beta dev kits that have some of the potentially locked down components in place. They might not get final dev kits until about 6-10 months from launch that the devs will immediately start using to bug test and do the final tweaks.

That's why launch games are often rushed and never actually push or utilize every feature of a system.

Pokemon G5 could very well have extra content that is only unlocked by having a DS2. There is no reason for them to ignore the massive record breaking DS audience, but it's also a perfect opportunity to hand hold them on over to the DS2 in the process.

Either way, I think we all can agree that whenever the DS2 comes out it won't mean an end to the DS for the foreseeable future. It will still continue to sell and have new games pushed out for it for several years after its successor. Just like how it is/was with the PS1 and PS2 after their successors came on the market.

Really, the only feature Nintendo needs to have to guarantee the DS2's success is that it be backwards compatible. Considering Nintendo has always done this with its handhelds (well, at least for the first revision or two) I'm sure they will do it this time as well. They would be stupid not to, and leaving it would be the only conceivable way the system has a chance of failing. Any other sort of feature might be great, but optional.

I don't think BC is at question regarding a DS2 since it is a D.S.2. and not a GameBoyNext or whatever 3rd pillar nonsense someone might dream up.

I don't recall the GBC or GBA having much legs after their successor came out.  Yeah Nintendo still tried to sell the damn things (to suckers) but it wasn't like they were cranking games out for it.  Sony's consoles are exceptional because games continue to made for their consoles for YEARS afterwards.  This has never happened with Nintendo portables.  The game development drops off after about a year.

For all their third pillar talk I don't recall Nintendo pushing any major GBA games after the DS came out.  It was quite obvious that the DS had replaced the GBA.  Though we did get Drill Dozer.

Looks like someone needs a history lesson.  Here's a list of all the GBA games NOA published here in North America after the DS was released.

DK: King of Swing
Donkey Kong Country 3
Dr. Mario & Puzzle League
Dynasty Warriors Advance
Final Fantasy IV Advance
Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones
The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap
Mario Party Advance
Mario Tennis: Power Tour
Pokémon Emerald
WarioWare: Twisted!
Yoshi's Universal Gravitation
Drill Dozer
Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Red Rescue Team
Final Fantasy V Advance
Tales of Phantasia
Final Fantasy VI Advance

Luigi Dude is right. I looked on Wikipedia, and it says the last GBA game in NA came out in February 2008. That's several YEARS after the launch of the DS back in late 2004. There is also a Metal Slug game listed on the Toys R Us website that might come out at some point.

But anyway, that shows the GBA had a life of 3+-4 years after its successor. The PS1's last game came out in 2004, which is 4 years after the PS2's launch in 2000. So maybe the PS1's life was a few months longer than the GBA's in that respect, but its close and the difference isn't worth mentioning.

BTW, the PS2 is still going. Not strong or anything, but its still seeing releases and still selling decently. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts. Can it beat the PS1's post-successor lifecycle of 4 years? Personally, I think it will because the PS3 adoption rate has been fairly poor.

But getting back on topic here, the DS's lifecycle will almost certainly be at least 4 years after the DS2. With sales going as strong as they are and with it still not dropping down to $99, it shows it still has a LOT of life left in it. The DSi was just released not that long ago, and its potential has barely been scratched yet. I predict it will have longer legs than the GBA and PS1.

I didn't know that Zelda was released after the DS.  I was probably too busy at the time enjoying it and making fun of people who bought a DS to play Super Mario 64 with crappy controls. ;)

When the last game came out in a system though is irrelevent since something like Madden can get released for YEARS later, when no one gives a shit anymore.  In regards to games that actually matter you usually only get about an extra year.  I remember the GBC getting killed off really quick but I was wrong about the GBA.  Still I expect the DS to be irrevelent within 12 months of the DS2's release.  Nintendo will finish some big games they have in the works but they will not announce any new major titles.

Why end support when you can support both?

I think the DS will be supported by Nintendo for a while after the DS2 is released.  My guess would be two years.  I can see the DS2 being released around the holidays one year, and that first Christmas being a DS/DS2 mix with more DS than DS2.  The next Christmas would still be a mix, but more DS2 than DS in terms of Nintendo output.  Then the third Christmas would see only third-parties making games for the huge DS install base, and Nintendo moving on to effectively support the DS2 exclusively (with maybe a new DS titles here and there).

The DS is inching towards that "Third-Party Milking" phase.  Nintendo has wrung just about all they can out of the hardware without revamping it outright (especially with the addition of the DSi's download capabilities).  With the DSi they've also done the "let's add some experimental new features to an existing platform to see if it works" thing, reminiscent of the GameBoy Camera.  They've also created a massive DS userbase to capitalize on with the next system, which will of course include backwards compatibility with both DS cards and the DSiWare Shop.

That was Yoshi Topsy-Turvy here (and is a much better name BTW).

Especially when you consider the backwards compatibility. You release a game on the DS2 and it will only play on the DS2; but if you release a game on the DS it will work on the DS AND the DS2. Considering the DS's install base is, I dunno, nearing 100 million or something, you really don't want to ignore it for the sake of a system that's just launched and has 1% of that audience.

I also think what we might see is games released that are designed for both systems, but actually come on the same cartridge. Meaning that if you play them on the DS it will work fine as any other DS game, but if you plug it into a DS2 it might make use of the better graphics and other expanded capabilities of that system. That's something we've never really seen too much in the world of gaming, but I think its something we will start to see in the next generation coming up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there already DSi games like this? These DSi games will work on the regular DS, but if you play them on the DSi then they additionally make use of the camera and so forth.

Hmm, now that I think about it I remember some old PC games that ran on DOS but also could run in Windows if you had it. The versions came on the same CD-ROM, and the Windows version had better graphics and so forth, but if you didn't have windows that was okay too because it also worked in DOS. So what I'm saying might happen has some precedence. And there was also late era GB games that had color support for when you played them in the Super Gameboy. In the regular gameboy they were spinach colored as usual, but pop them into a Super Gameboy, and you unlock pre-configured color schemes and stuff.

Nintendo did that on the Game Boy Color with the black cartridges. They ran fine on original black & white Game Boys, but when played on a Game Boy Color they were in full color, and sometimes had other bonus features, like the extra dungeon in the color re-release of Link's Awakening. I expected to see stuff like that happening with the DSi and it hasn't so far, but it could work with the DS 2 as well.

Because if you focus on the new hardware while scaling way back on the old you force people to buy the new hardware if they want to play new games.  And Nintendo LOVES selling hardware.  They want you to buy a DS2 and if they're busting out masterpieces on the DS are you going to feel any need to buy a DS2?

I didn't buy my DS until a year after it came out because it didn't have any games that justified a purchase.  But I have the disposable income and I bought the GBA and Gamecube at launch.  I'm the sort of typical early-adopter customer Nintendo is aiming for with a system launch but it took them a whole year to get me to upgrade.  That's no good.  I should have been a day-one sale for them.  In the end, things worked out, but that should be the goal for a new system.  People should want to upgrade on day one.  You're going to struggle with that if they're content playing new games on their old system.

Do you think Sony did themselves any favours by releasing God of War II on the PS2 after the PS3 was already out and was struggling with a weak lineup and a high price?  There was no urgency to upgrade since one of the best PS2 games had just come out.

But Ian, you're missing what I said about the games being usable on both systems. The "masterpieces" would work either way, but if you want the better graphics and whatever other bonus features then you need to upgrade the hardware.

I know Nintendo loves hardware sales, but they also love software sales too. The DS has one of the largest (if not THE largest) install bases in video gaming history. If you are releasing a new game, you want it to be playable for this install base because there is much more potential money to be made. Launch games often have a difficult time because the hardware is new and not many people have it.