I tend to ignore what these analysts say since they are often wrong.

Anyways, I think people just aren't interested in a DJ game. I know i'm not, especially not for the price they want. Even with the turntable, I wouldn't spend more than $60 on it. One reason is that I don't have much interest in pretending to be a DJ, the second is because I hate the mixes in all of the videos I have seen of the game.

I went to check this out at Best Buy, but a couple of business casual douches kept hogging it.  Serves me right for going in during the noon hour.

DJ Hero is definitely more niche than Guitar Hero.  The catch with DJ Hero is that not all rap fans give a crap about being a DJ, or the DJ culture in general.  They won't automatically grab the Lil' Wayne audience with this game.

Did they ever expect this to do as well as Guitar Hero and the like? Because it is highly unlikely that it will.

Maybe they hoped that putting a guitar mode in would help (one play can play using the turntable, another player can play with a guitar using the standard Guitar Hero gameplay).

Music games suffer from too many trips to the well, that particular resource is overexploited and maybe next time Kotick should think about what exploitation means.

I refer to "business casual douches" as "lunch time rats".

If they were expecting to actually grab the Wayne audience, then pricing it into deep space is the wrong way to go about it.

Something tells me that you aren't the target market for this game and perhaps you should stop trying to start a flame war.

Target market is smaller than Walmart market, confirmed.

Actually, based on interviews with FreeStyleGames, I AM the target market. They said they are going after people who might not be into hip-hop or not into being a DJ.

You mean Activision wants more people to buy their products?  Unthinkable!  Don't get fooled by marketing speak.

It wouldn't be a flame war, though.  It would be a WAR on the DANCE FLOOR!!!


THIS...IS...DJ HERO!!!

My sister works at BB and she says the game is selling like crazy and people are playing the demo they haves set up all day everyday.

It's the quiet before the holiday sales rush storm for one thing.

Secondly, we have a pretty crammed market this Fall/Christmas in the music game department.

You already have two different Guitar Hero games (5 & Band Hero) along with two Rock Band games (LEGO and Beatles) not to mention the people who may be content to hold on to World Tour and/or Rock Band 2 and just buy DLC if anything. Also you have the new DDR games among other music/rhythm based games. Also people are still buying RB 1 & 2 and the Track Packs and all the old Guitar Hero games like Metallica, Greatest Hits and others.

So even if people are still buying music games, there are at least 6 different new music games on the market competing for consumer dollars and shelf space. Something is going to lose out here and Activision releasing 3 different console music games are cannibalizing their own market. These games may all win in the long haul, but people can't expect every one of them to be instant million sellers, even with a powerful brand name behind them.

Should have gone with GlowsTick Hero instead.  Especially with the upcoming lotions on the horizons.

It's not really surprising that DJ Hero might struggle.  The whole music genre has been driven into the ground every single year, and with the release of RockBand: Beatles, the music is only going to go downhill from here.

Until they get a Karaoke collection of Michael Jackson, all we can do is watch this plastic-guitar music game genre slowly die (as I sit smiling.)

*sigh* must you poison this thread with your nonsense, too?

So I take it the game has at least sold more than 500 copies at non-Wal-Mart retailers, eh?  Better than SpyBorgs!

Also...

The music-game genre isn't really one that can be over-saturated.  The more experience developers get adding in gameplay to songs, the more programs are written, the more possible it is to create songs for cheap that can sell in insignificant numbers.  All it means is that it's a market that will always be able to consistently make money, and we've reached that point.  Personally, I don't see a huge problem with it.  We're taking up talent from Activision, a developer with very little unique and original IP, and Harmonix, another developer who's sole purpose has been to create music games on a level like this.

The reason it'll last is that people have enjoyed creating, playing, and listening to music for at least thousands of years.  This is just another opportunity to do the same.

Viacom hasn't made money on Rock Band yet.  Guitar Hero's sales are dwindling pretty sharply.  I'm not sure how this reads as "healthy market" but you are free to your opinion.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24598

Sure, they haven't made money yet.  That's the way to go by things.  Like when Microsoft quit after about seven years of not making money on the Xbox.  The market's still healthy, but the cost of entry is steep, that's all.

Well he's not going to say "You're right, Rock Band's a money loser.  We're going to axe it."

But if the music market is shrinking, which it is, and you haven't made money yet.  You aren't going to if it continues to shrink.  Which it looks like it's going to.  Ask Konami about DDR.

And MS and the Xbox is a poor example, because MS still hasn't made money on the Xbox, or even the Xbox 360 for that matter, despite showing a few profitable quarters.

I believe that even MS' profitable quarters are a little misleading.
Something about debt reshuffling into other more profitable divisions where they can be swallowed whole and show more black ink across the board. But that's for a whole different conversation.

New DDR games released yesterday say 'hi'. They still sell well enough. The Wii ones seem to be doing well.

DDR did shrink in popularity, but it has stabilized and is a sustainable genre. They seem able to release at least one version a year for each system and also make special editions like the Disney one.

So I suspect that the instrument rhythm games will shrink but stabilize as well. In the end I expect the Bock Band platform to survive and Activision will definitely slow down it's release of Guitar/Band Hero games. Both series can survive in a compressed music game market.

Sorry Deg, not everyone can be as refined and insightful as you.  DJ Hero is serious buisness.  My bad.

Music gaming is dying off just like Tony Hawk did.

Activision is to blame, while EA just plays Follow-the-Leader into the pit of financial despair.

It's obvious that Deg and D_Average don't like each other.  Can you do me a favor and just not interact with each other?

D_Average's comment in this particular thread is no different than half the joke's someone like Pro makes on these boards that everyone thinks is hilarious.  Deg you are making it more personal than it has to be and just inciting a response from D_Average.

Seriously guys, just avoid each other.

I personally would like to see a DJ fight to the death between them to advertise DJ Hero.

Hey, I don't directly harass people.  Would you like me to do so, to make it clear?

Tell, how was D_Average's comment in this thread directly harrassing anybody?  It was a stupid comment, but it's one that can be safely ignored since it wasn't directly aimed at anybody.

Lindy you got 99 problems*, but this shouldn't be one.


*So how is NWR 2.0 coming along? ;)

Yeah but the DDR games are a one company show... the franchise has no serious competition. The same could not be said of Guitar Hero/Rock Band. To get to that more normalized "one release a year, plus special edition" type of schedule, one of those franchises will have to go away.

The market won't dissipate, the genre has wider appeal than Tony Hawk did, but clearly it has already hit its peak and is diminishing in sales. If Viacom hasn't made money during the height of the genre, I am somehow skeptical that they will turn their fortunes around when the genre is on a downward slide.

On a random note, why was Pro brought up in the D_Average/Deg thing? (Pro for life/president/ruler of the universe!)

You should see the Last.fm, Facebook and Twitter integration.  It's OUT OF THIS WORLD.

Pale mentioned that what D_Avg said was no different than random comments that Pro makes.
Pro implied that D_Avg is always trying to harass people with his comments.
Lindy replied directly to Pro's implication.

Tune in next week to see what happens on As the NWorldR Turns.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=23819.msg559995#msg559995

I will gladly avoid Deg as I have been doing.  He has reached out to me first these last few weeks.  Everybody on these boards makes random comments like that. Deg's just looking for another petty argument. If he hates me so much why not back it up and challenge me at the ultimate fighter?  Mortal Kombat 2. PSN version of course.  I'll even go easy. No fatalties.

Oh gahd. Is it next week already?

Well next time please just ignore his jab and don't respond as you did.

This thread doesn't exist in a vacuum. 

Back onto music games...

Like I said, as time passes the cost of design decreases, which helps to negate declining numbers.  While DJ Hero isn't a shining example because it represents a new cost of entry into the genre, the actual music games will have an easier time making money as time passes.  A major reason why the Rock Band sector hadn't made money was acquiring the Beatles license to actually create the Beatles Rock Band, wasn't it?

I still believe that if you give it time, there's room for a music game genre.  If there's not room for two different series in the game, then we'll see a compromise solution where both developing groups publish to the same platform, but neither are going to back out completely.

As far as DDR goes, in the arcades, it has major competition, but at home, the competition was never stiff.  Other Bemani and a game, something like "Step it up" or "Beatmania," I can't recall, using a different button panel in the shape of an "x" is actually easier to find than DDR is now, at least in a lot of places.  It's not like it didn't go through competition, and like it's been said, despite it's age, DDR churns out several sequels every year, with much less appeal than Guitar Hero and Rock Band.  Don't forget Rock Band has yet to begin accepting songs from garage bands and the like.  There's definitely a process to bring the franchise to the black underway.

Whenever there's a new or untapped genre or sub-genre introduced it goes through a "craze" period like this. It happened with puzzle games and fighting games, among others. I still can't believe how many Tetris knock-offs were created back in the day and I can't even count how many Street Fighter and related games there were. But eventually things slow down and companies stick to no more than one yearly release.

As long as we have kareokee we will have music games.

Perhaps because it seemed like we would always warn or ban people who don't make productive posts and just spread idiocy when I was a mod.  I don't know if the rule changed but we've certainly become more tolerant of trolls around here.  Especially since he, once again, did that retarded name-spelling bull**** that you already warned him THREE TIMES about.

And his defense to all this is "Internet is serious business" which basically means he thinks this place is just a troll zone that he can play around in, or some kind of clubhouse.

And Pale, would you prefer Pro ignore the out-of-left-field inclusion into the same category as a guy who continually directly insults me with bullcrap like "Dug?"  Because it seems like a false equivalency when Pro has actually been a productive member of the forum for quite a long time and this guy has been a pain in the ass from day one.  In fact, I'm kinda tired of being declared equivalent to him just because we "don't like each other."  Of course we don't.  He's broken the forum's rules several times with reckless abandon and personally insulted me several times and I've just had to sit there and take it because I know blowing up in return would reflect poorly on me and that I have faith in the mods to take care of the issue.

Also, It's not like I lay dormant on the forums waiting for D_Average to post and then strike like a python.  I have real world stuff to do like college, including the exams and campus jobs therein.  When I do have free time, I usually come see the discussions and this one intrigued me.  And then I see his pointless post which adds nothing, not even a snarky joke at anything.  Notice I only commented to his in passing in a full post about the subject's material.  It not like I wanted to derail the thread.

Look on the bright side, there are 2 new moderators that'll ignore trolling with the same enthusiasm as staff.  Non-mods befitting of a site for non-gamers and their non-game playing machines.

Deg, do you think that Pale and I don't have real world stuff to do as well?  Do you think we take pleasure in refereeing you two?  (Hint: we don't)

The fact is that in this thread you took the first shot when you could have taken the high road.  Once you did that, D_Average's response was entirely predictable (not that that makes it right).  Furthermore, don't tell me you're concerned with thread derailment when you post your lengthy responses begging for further discussion.

Just as was the case with Ian Sane (who was asked to tone it down, and has since done so), we aren't going to ban somebody just because you have a long-running personal feud with them.  D_Average may make some stupid posts, but what you don't realize is that a lot of other people do too.  You just don't have issues with them, so you don't perceive their silliness/stupidity as a problem.

 

FIXED!

It's a good thing I don't! At least not until I get bored.  ;D

Where did I insinuate that I didn't?  I'm saying that I don't lie in wait to ambush D_Average in random topics.  And there's the problem right there.  there is no "refereeing" needed.  He's broken several forum rules as well as personally trolled me, when in return I HAVE taken the high road and appealed to you and the mods for relief and gotten nothing but insults from him and inaction from mods.

I didn't continue this derailment, in fact my post after I lamented D_Average's actual attempt at derailing the thread, I continued talking about the topic's subject.

Excuse me, but did you forget the part where he's personally insulted me, several other people on this forum, and the whole forum itself?  Even in this very thread?  He's a chronic rule-breaker and you're telling me he gets away with it because he chooses to antagonize me and that makes it a "personal feud?"  Yeah, he ticks me off.  He personally insults me and gets away with it because he personally insults just me, making it a "personal feud?"  Every civil channel I try to use fails and he gets to continue his constant trolling of every thread and myself because he doesn't care about the rules and I do?  Who wouldn't get angry at that?

And I never asked for Ian Sane to be banned.  I was a mod then, so if I wanted him banned I would have done it myself.  I just thought his repetitive posts could be considered trolling back in like, 2004.  I'd take three Ians compared to this guy.  I never even knew the meaning of troll until this D_average guy showed up.  I still resent that you guys are trying to make this a "personal feud."  We he trolled me the first time I went to you first, while he continued insulting me.  Every time I have appealed to the mods and thus far have gotten zero result besides a few limp warnings which just encouraged him to do more.  It is not right, nor is it fair.

I think what should be considered is what will become of the rest of the forum if a clear, chronic, caustic rule-breaker does not get dealt with.  What is the incentive to follow the rules if there is no consequence for breaking them?

you don't say....

Deg's response? I'll take a stab at this one:

*note: bolded words were added by me.

So yeah, who actually WANTS to be a DJ?

I was actually talking to a co-worker today about DJ Hero and both of us are really curious about the game, but neither of us want to invest more money in another plastic instrument.

But I really did enjoy playing Beatmania in the arcades before and would love to try something like it again. The entry fee of expensive plastic is just too high to play once again.

The day Rock Band and Guitar Hero games force me to upgrade from my GH3 and WT equipment for whatever reason is the day I quit playing and buying those games.

or so you say :P
I feel the same way though and to be honest I'm not surprised that (at least activision) didn't try to come up with some new features for their guitars to get suckers to dorp more money on at least upgrading that. Then later updates for the rest of the instruments... yeeesh.

As for the other question brought up, i WAS curious in at least trying DJ Hero.. which i did. Didn't mean my expectations to be honest. I thought it'd be fun "mixing" tracks like that and getting to scratch the record but I couldn't enjoy it. The first time i saw the game being played at best buy the chump put it on easy and it didn't look terribly difficult so i figured when i get the chance, i'll at least put it on medium which i did and it still didn't feel challenging at all, and just wasn't very fun in general. To be honest though, i must of been doing SOMETHING wrong since during the 3 song quickplay setlist of the demo they had, i kept getting just ONE star lol.

My sister approached me to go halfs with her on DJ Hero, she doesn't really play video games but she likes hip-hip/rap so I do find it a bit shocking. She even offered to pay more than half after I looked less than enthusiastic about it.
Maybe I'll just get it for her for Giftmas.

Deg, if D_Average isn't banned the entire forum isn't going to self-destruct and fall away into oblivion.  Good lord.  We have banned people in the past (Mario for instance), and will ban people in the future.  But not just because you say so, or because you repeatedly lock horns with a certain person, and decide to engage them when you know it's going to result in another flame war.  Some people just don't get along on these forums.

Try this:

1. Open up your Personal Messages
2. Choose Change Settings from the menu
3. Fill in the ignore list; it works for all messages, not just PMs

http://i26.tinypic.com/2uid5zo.jpg

Deg, I'm not going to comment on who is wrong or right in this situation as usual, but I just wanted to point out the position I have been put in involving the two of you, just so you understand my side.

The only time I have ever read any posts by D_Average that break the rules, the situation has already exploded into an area where more than just him have broken the rules.  In these cases I usually say something in the thread itself and don't hand out any official warnings, because I would be doing it until the cows come home.

All I would ask of you is that you ignore him completely, report the posts you aren't happy about to a moderator using the link, and then respect our decision.  We may warn him sometimes.  We may decide that you are overreacting and he didn't really break the rules other times.

We just brought on two new mods to hopefully nip this crap in the bud before it explodes.

That's all. Let's let this thread be about DJ hero again.  If one more person talks about moderation and warnings, they will be given a 30% warning.  If you want to continue this discussion, I ask that you do it in PMs. If you want it to be public, use the NWR Discussion forum and make a new thread.

I for one really wanted to buy DJ Hero as I currently own no music games.  But once I played it at Best Buy I was totally turned off by the actual gameplay.  Anybody find themselves in that same position?  The 120 dollar price tag didn't help either.  Maybe if I see it in the bargin bin for 40 down the line I'll pick it up just because the mixes are nice.

HOLY CRAP!? Is it really that much money? WHY!?

What turned me off is the controller.  I don't understand how you could play that game for more than a half-hour without getting destroying your "platter" hand.  My wrist was killing me after only a couple of three-song sets.

I found it uncomfortable after just ONE 3-song set.

Funny enough, Game Trailers LOVED the game, saying that after 20 or 30 minutes of play the game grows on you.

Are you sure they didn't say something like "The game puts growths on you"?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around what could justify the price. Over here, it costs £89.99 (roughly $147!) even on Amazon, who are normally more lenient about pricing. This is compared to the £69.99 cost for Guitar Hero 5 with the guitar controller. I have my doubts that the components of the turntable hardware are anywhere near that much more expensive than what's in guitar peripherals. According to the ONM UK review of DJ Hero, which they would have played for under a month before reviewing, the paint had already peeled off the controller where the his thumb had been resting. Not exactly the signs of a really well made product.

Must be the Activision mantra of milking the money as best as they can. All the reviewers have been saying so far: the game itself is apparently great, but the package as a whole is overpriced by far though, so perhaps this time they've gone too far...

The controller definitely has a bit more heft to it than a plastic guitar (it has a full turntable platter, for instance), but you know Activision is making a ton of cash off of it.

Haha, no kidding!  Out of curiousity I checked the price on a real turntable.  You can get a decent one for $79 at Amazon. Wow, I thought even the entry level ones were more than that!  I guess thats what Activision is hoping everyone else thinks too.

Obviously, they had to pay for the music too, but they also had to pay for the songs in Guitar Hero 5 at $60.  I smell a rip off.

Any DJ worth their salt gets Tech 12's.  If you're getting Vestax decks I'm shunning you, and if you're getting a pair of Geminis I'm punching you in the face.