Up until 2006 at least. :rolleyes:

I'm not really surprised to hear this news, as Nintendo has always made quality products.

Nah, I would say the hate started sometime in 2008. Yeah there was an uproar over the name but with E3 it surprised and delighted many gamers. 2007 also saw a lot of great releases including the all mighty Mario Galaxy. The beginning of 2008 was promising thanks to Mario Kart Wii and Brawl. But it seems that right after their E3 2008 presentation ended the media and its fans declared war on Nintendo.

So to me, 2008 was the year fans really started hating Nintendo.

But there were a lot of fans bitching before 2008. I wish Nintendo would just say "Shut the f*** up. We release games for you and you ignore them or continue to bitch anyways. We are making the fastest selling game console ever and selling more games then ever before, so we know what consumers want more than you."

You have people whining about Nintendo ignoring them all the time. They will shut up for a couple of days when Nintendo does something like announce "Punch-Out!!" and "Sin & Punishment 2", then they start bitching all over again. Nintendo is still making great games and are selling more games then they ever did with the GameCube and N64, so they don't need to listen to people who complain for the sake of complaining. Don't forget that they are also tons of great third party games too, you don't have to buy only first party games.

Another placing is Apple at 52.

Apple would be higher to me if they weren't buttwipes with iTunes. I have tons of media files on my computer that I can't play in iTunes since Apple only allows a small amount of file types, and also for making it overly difficult to try and get files downloaded through iTunes to play on devices like my PSP (it should be mandatory for every device and program to accept the universal MP3 format for audio and WMV for video).

It should be mandatory for all devices and programs to support the AAC codec, which in addition to being a technically better format is truly open as opposed to MP3 which requires licensing. And WMV? Yeah, why don't we give Microsoft another monopoly just for the hell of it.

Anyone who's been around long enough should remember that Nintendo's fans started hating the company around the second year of the N64. We're talking nearly a decade ago. Maybe even before then but the internet as we know it didn't really exist prior to that so it's hard to say.
People think the Wii has bad game droughts and delays, but it's nothing compared to what the N64 went through.
You'd go to a Nintendo forum like this one and there would not be ONE positive comment about the big N. It was nothing but pure hate coming from the "supposed" fans.
There were E3's WAY worse than last year. Remember the year the "BIG" title was Pac Man Vs. That caused a backlash that put the one last year to shame.
But if history has taught us anything it's that people have short memories. After last year's disappointment Nintendo is sure to roll out the crowd-pleasing reveals this E3 and all will be forgiven if only momentarily before the hating starts up again.

People forget the negatives, they forget the time intervals, they add up all the positives of the past (e.g. they'll compare the entire library of the N64 against the Wii's releases this year) and come to the conclusion that the present doesn't measure up, just because the present is a shorter timespan than the past.

You're right. It seems that with every generation of gaming fans have something to hate Nintendo for. In the N64 era it was the constant delays of its core titles, its lack of edge when compared to the Playstation, the lack of third party titles and the biggest one of all, the childish factor. Then in the Gamecube era it was the sequels to N64 games, lack of third party support, no online play and reliance on gimmicks (ie the GC to GBA connection). Now this generation is about the abandonment of core gamers and reliance on casual titles.

KDR is also right in that once the generation is over people look back upon it with fondness. I am sure that fans will say how amazing and promising Wii Sports was at launch, how wonderful Mario Galaxy was and how incredibly deep some Motion Plus games were.

But when I made that post I was talking about the Wii in general, not just Nintendo. Like I mentioned already, despite an uproar over the name fans WERE excited for the Wii and so was the media. 2007 was also filled with excitement because there were a lot of core titles released for the Wii, including the all mighty Mario Galaxy at the end of the year. The first half of 2008 was also filled with promise because of Brawl and Mario Kart Wii. But once E3 rolled by it apparently became cool to hate Nintendo, and I suspect that the media played a huge part on this.

Once the media didn't get what they wanted at E3 they started telling games to hate on Nintendo because what they wanted to see was not shown and was proof that Nintendo didn't care anymore. I mean I remember MANY outlets that said that the future looked very bleak for Nintendo fans. Since then its been a big meme to hate on Nintendo and I think its because the media told fans to do so.

Let's see what happens at this year's E3. If the show promises to be big and amazing and lots of core titles are announced let's see what the media says.

This article is also proof that the internet does not equal overall consumer appeal. Fans may whine all they want but the ones that truly dictates a company's worth is the consumer. The fanatics are, as some would deny, just one small part of the consumer market.

Also, one reason I believe Nintendo is putting so much emphasis on these "casual" games is because its much, much harder selling a game to non gamers and people outside of the core fanbase. I mean, Nintendo says "A new Zelda is out...RIGHT NOW!" and a million copies is guaranteed to be sold in a week. But for something like Wii Fit they need to get the word out as best as possible.

If you look at it this way its understandable. Its like selling a new computer. To a techno geek a sale is guaranteed because he/she knows how it works, what advantages it has over other computers and such. But to a new customer you must try hard to convince him or her that their purchase will be worthwhile.

Most of the complaining during the N64 and GameCube era wasn't coming from Nintendo fans, it was from the people who had a PlayStation or an XBox or something. The Nintendo fans who did complain, it was a sort of "tough love" deal because they liked Nintendo and wanted to see them thrive. Wii is different. It seems like Nintendo fans have turned on Nintendo and are jumping ship over a few "non-games" and something about a shift in focus. The things they say actually seem like real hate, and not constructive criticism like what had come before.

Personally I think it's mostly unfounded. Nintendo haven't shifted their focus, they've just expanded it. The "Wii " series hasn't replaced any of Nintendo's other established franchises; just look at how many games they released in the first two years of Wii. Unless they actually discontinue one of their franchises in favour of "Wii Cook" or something, then nothing has really changed about Nintendo.

Part of the reason fans can be so loud and obnoxious is because they realize they are a minority, and therefore they feel they have to scream ten times as loud in order for their voice to have any chance of being heard.

I'd assume that when they were talking about Nintendo in this case, they mean Japan then? Are the Japanese more forgiving masochistic than us Westerners? Imagine if they polled people in Japan, how they feel about Apple?

Nintendo makes very high quality products.  Even something like Wii Music that I would consider to be of low quality from an artistic perspective is still made very well.  Their hardware is reliable and their games are usually bug-free and have responsive controls.  Nintendo's most negative trait would be their stubborn "we're doing this a stupid way just because" attitude but that's something only people who really follow videogames will even know about.  I'm not at all surprised that the general public would think highly of Nintendo and overall they do deserve it because they make a reliable product.

Of course Nintendo's public perception as a company and their public perception as a videogame company are one in the same since videogames are all they do.  Sony's and Microsoft's public perception is based on them as a whole so it's an apples and oranges kind of thing here.

My biggest issue with Nintendo on the console side is that, input method aside, the games they're releasing (that I really care about) haven't changed much since 1996.  They still release amazing games, but Galaxy/Twilight Princess/Kart Wii are pretty much the same as Mario 64/Ocarina/Kart 64 in my eyes.  I feel like there's nothing new under the sun with Wii.  What would impress me would be something like a Pokemon MMORPG, but that won't happen on Wii.

I think that the DSi is far more innovative than the Wii, by a mile.  It's possibly my favorite system ever.

Except Wii Sports and that whole deal...

And I knew somebody would say that, and my response is that those games aren't really my thing.  I'm not disputing their quality, but I didn't buy a Wii for Wii Sports or Wii Fit like most people do.

I apologize if that's a crime.

Pikmin, and Animal Crossing. Paper Mario and Mario and Luigi series. Brain Age. Advance Wars. Battalion Wars. All are different types of games released after 1996. Believe it or not though MS and yes, gasp, Sony rely heavily on established franchises as well. Yeah you get the odd Little Big Planet (as you get the odd Nintendo game) but they rely heavily on established franchises. It is called BUSINESS.

Oops, I tripped the "Nintendo Criticism" alarm.  I'll wait until the alarm goes off.

I'll take my independent thought elsewhere.

Independent thought that isn't true. I could list some published NIntendo games not made in house but I know that would be disqualified even though some of Sonys and MS's bigger franchises aren't built in house as well, one that comes to mind is Gears of War or Mass Effect.

You can deflect any criticism of your statements all you want but the fact is that all the companies do the same thing. It seems silly to me to pull Nintendo out and act like they are the only guilty party.

Bah, I know Nintendo makes the products good and that's what I love. Nintendo doesn't have to meet my every need.

Seriously, why the hell did Nintendo fans become selfish bastards? While I do expect quality from them (and they DO deliver), it's like they have to wait on the whiny little brats hand and foot.

The only thing that comes out of this casual vs. core arguement is Pro Daisy mocking it, and that's fun.

I've grown so sick of the casual vs core argument so Pro mocking is the best. I like SMG/Zelda but I also love the new "casual" games like Wii Sports, Boom Blox (Not a Nintendo title but oh well), Brain Age, etc. To me they help keep things fresh, otherwise I'm not sure I could stand playing solely "core" games.

I understand where you're comming from, yet they are atleast worthy successors unlike the cube versions(WW excluded). Galaxy is much different than M64, but its the sequel we wanted & not Sunshine, Ocarina was better than TP & WW (in my eyes) since OoT could hold my attention all the way to the end, lets not even waste time with MKDD, Kart 64 is better not so closely followed by MKWii.

but I think the point was to be a little more of the same since they missed the mark with the cube generation. They previously took a step back, now they needed to take that step forward, and now we can move on to new territory

I'm not sure it would ever happen, even though it seems like the obvious thing to evolve the Pokemon franchise into. But if it aint broke then dont fix it, i guess. They need to figure out how to do the 3 version stand alone and the MMO with them all adding sales to each other.
Maybe 3 stand alones have exclusive pokemon & access to exclusive(dojo) area on MMO map. MMO has tons of exclusive & NEW pokemon, it becomes pokemon snap, pokemon trainer & battle arena in MMO fashion

As the director of a Nintendo website the attitude wasn't needed.

The Wii has seen a lot of new IPs this generation. Yes, we have seen the expected new entries on their classic franchises (which, as Golden said, is something all companies do on a daily basis), but there have also been titles like the Wii series, rebirths of old franchises (Excite and Punch-Out) and several new IPs from third parties (Madworld, No More Heroes etc.). Last year's Fall conference showed us a lot of new IPs published by Nintendo. Note that we haven't even seen a new Mario Party entry in a while, and that was a franchise Nintendo TRULY exploited back in the Gamecube days. And I think the release of Motion Plus could generate new ideas and even more new IPs.

As for Wii Sports, Wii Fit etc. even if they aren't your cup of tea you must give them credit for being new IPs that brought a lot of new gamers into the console and pretty much creating the Wii's current image.

Its not that we are so fanatical that we can't accept any criticism towards Nintendo, Lindy. In my case, I wish they would get their act together with the Nintendo downloads and ante up the quality and I am finding it disturbing that they are using Europe as a dumping ground for titles they fear might not sell elsewhere. But what we mean is that the whole "core vs. casual" debate is old and that some of the criticisms aimed at the company are stupid and unfounded.

Pap is right 100%. I do think Nintendo's download service is pretty sad now, I mean 1 VC game a week now? Terrible DSi support as well with ridiculous "games" that are actually parts of retail games! It is like you are paying for a demo of a DS game! Also I'm not to thrilled either with Nintendo not willing to release games in NA yet release them in Europe. As Wario Land: Shake It showed, these more unknown titles do sell decently. Maybe not tons but decently.

I also expect Nintendo to have a good showing of DIVERSE software at E3 as well. 2008s holiday season was pretty barren, but that was fine with me because they had a stellar 2007 holiday season and the first half 2008. Though I won't be so forgiving if this holiday season is the same thing!

For the DSi I have a feeling they will release a LOZ:Spirit Tracks DSi bundle so I think I'll wait for that.  While the downloadable service on Wii is hit or miss, I bought more downloadable games on Wii than PS3,PSP and 360 combined so I love the service. I admit that recently it's a little slow but from time to time we get awesome games (seriously support Bit.Trip Beat, Bonsai Barber, Strong Bad, and Gradius Rebirth). 

All in all, I like the Nintendo platforms more than the Sony and Microsoft platforms this generation, I've been disappointed by more 360 and PS3 games (mainly Gears of War, Too Human, Infinite Undiscovery and Heavenly Sword) than I have with the Wii and DS games.

Yeah I am with you in regards to buying more downloadable stuff for Wii, but it is pretty pathetic now with the one VC game a week. And DSi ware is just sad now.

I never even mentioned core, casual, MS or Sony, so whatever.  I was strictly talking Wii games, and I have a long memory for Nintendo consoles.  It takes a lot to get me interested these days because I've played it all, it seems.

I'm just objecting to complaints about a lack of innovation while simultaneously dismissing all the games that have innovation. That they're not your thing is fine but they are innovative.

Innovation can be defined in many different ways.  I certainly value some innovations above others (obviously).  The new input stuff is cool and all, but I look at it like, you know, I didn't need it.  It wasn't necessary for me and wasn't done for me, so I don't value it like many others do.  I think that's where the disconnect comes from for me, I'm more interested in pushing the boundaries of the social interactivity of the game world (bigger worlds, more players involved, cooperative goals and gameplay) than I am in innovating how players interact with the game.  I'm probably more impressed by interactivity inside games than outside games at this point, if that makes any sense.

The VC in America is HORRIBLE. While it has alot of the classics I contiune to play (SMB3 <3), Nintendo of America is doing a horrible job keeping it up.

Ugh, don't get me started on that. If the Wii was HD, we would have games in colors other then BROWN. And Mario Galaxy would look more awesome then it already is.

Is it because you have a better environment and opportunity in life right now to enjoy social gaming than you did before?

For me that stuff's kinda soooo late-90's so I yearn for new ideas in physical interfacing, where skill becomes a mind-body coordination issue rather than the classic thumb-button coordination issue.

It's probably more to do with lifestyle.  I would appreciate the physical interface stuff more if I had more of a reason to use it.  I don't have kids, and my fiancee and I seldom have people over (our apartment is a shoebox so it's not good for entertaining), so we seldom "game in a group", so to speak.  I've also gravitated away from solo-gamer fare like Mario Galaxy (Metroid 3 being the exception, because I love its game world), and moved into more online multiplayer co-operative stuff.  This is why my favorite Wii game is Mario Kart Wii...it lets you get online and play with other people, not co-operatively, but it's group gaming nonetheless.

I love group gaming, but more as a virtual group than a physical group nowadays.  That's a product of my age, since when you're in your thirties your friends move to different spots on the map and start doing their own thing.  You don't all live in the same dorm or apartment complex any more, for example.

If you want something that's great online you should really check out Excitebots if you haven't already.

But wait can you explain without your tone here why what GP said was unreasonable? She said:

Whats so bad about the series' she mentioned? Why don't they satisfy? You just kinda made a snoody remark and nothing else after that.

Personally, I think I'd like it if we could just expand or games online, get a verbose online structure and I would be much happier. Plus I'd like to see some more sandboxy feel to games, like the way the Battlefront games feel. etc. Lots of control.

My 2 sexnts.

Technically Advance Wars existed in Japan since the NES known as the famicom wars.  But Pikmin, AC, Mario and Luigi, Battalion Wars I'll buy :P. The only thing I wish Nintendo did is localize Soma Bringer and some Japanese only games.

The existence of innovation is not the only requirement.  As with any request there is the unspoken assumption that the results will be good.  If you ask for something to eat and are given dog food your request may TECHNICALLY be fulfilled but you obviously meant something decent.  Some games are innovative but are crap because their innovative idea doesn't really work out to well, while some very derivative games are classics because they just do everything so well.

I will freelly admit that the Wii controller is innovative... but it's lame.  I don't want just the same stuff from Nintendo so I want them to innovate but the results have to be engaging.  The mere presence of innovation is not good enough.  So far I feel most of the Wii's best games don't use the remote in any sort of way that actually improves the game.  If anything it just makes the controls less precise and more of a chore to use.  Wii Sports makes good use of the remote and is innovative BUT it's also a scaled down non-game that I had fun with but lacked enough depth to get any lasting play out of it.  I was bored of it in about a week and wouldn't have bought it if it wasn't a pack-in.  Wii Fit is innovative but the concept is lame.  Wii Music is innovative but the game fucking sucks.

For someone like me that has no interest whatsoever in non-games like the Wii ____ Series the best Nintendo games on the Wii would be Twilight Princess, Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3 and SSB Brawl.  TP is a Gamecube game.  The use of the remote is completely unnecessary and the game is easily the most derivative 3D Zelda game yet.  Brawl plays better with the Gamecube controller so it also does not benefit from the remote.  Mario Galaxy's usage is quite laughably minor.  Metroid Prime 3 is the only title there that makes what I would consider really good use of the remote.  But even then Retro could have acheived similar results with a mouse and the experience is arguably more generic as it makes the game play more like a typical FPS (likely to please the close-minded rubes that decided not to like the first game).

Of those four, three of them might as well be Cube games as they provide no real gameplay experience that could not be achieved on it.  All four of these are sequels and just due to the law of diminishing returns are not as fresh and exciting as their predecessors.  Pikmin and Metroid Prime were really exciting on the Cube because they were NEW EXPERIENCES.  No game before played quite like them.  On the Wii the new experiences are stuff like Wii Sports.  But those are aimed at a completely different market.  For the old market Nintendo has yet to provide something that couldn't have been done before, and is on par with their best work.  This is what I'm looking for.  That's what I'm hoping for at E3.  I want to see the Wii's Pikmin.  No not Pikmin 3 (though I will enjoy that) but the Wii equivalent of Pikmin, a new gameplay experience with the quality of Nintendo's greatest games.

Hopefully Wii MotionPlus will provide these new experiences, Ian.  However, I wonder if game designers are honestly created enough to go beyond the "Hey!  Let's use the controller as a bat/sword/golf club!" paradigm.

As for my "snooty remark", I have no criticisms for the games GP listed.  They're all really good games, but I didn't fall in love with any of them (or finish any of them either; they all lost me after a while).  Metroid Prime 3 is the last Nintendo game that I played front-to-back and absolutely loved.  And I think that's notable, because MP3 is very different in tone and feel from almost any Nintendo game out there, and is actually a black sheep amongst its game lineup these days.

Thank you.  But you could have stood to make that post instead of the post you did make:

Do you see the problem?

What irritated me was that I didn't even post anything overly critical, but all I get back is the old "shut up, casual hardcore, Sony Microsoft" stuff that I didn't even mention in my post.  BlackNMild was the only one that actually read what I posted and came back with a reasonable response. 

But your the Site Director.  With a reply like that, you only perpetuated that which irritates you.