I am no Smash Bros. expert but doesn't the sideways remote kind of limit your button possibilities?

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Originally posted by: Artimus
I am no Smash Bros. expert but doesn't the sideways remote kind of limit your button possibilities?

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Well, it's Remote/Nunchuk for me.

It would be intersting to think that 5 or 6 player Smash is now possible, though. O_O

Oh, and I also think by Sakurai's comment of "If I get the chance to tell you, I will...", he means that Brawl will either be demonstrated by himself or playable at E3 next month.

Some people might complain about how this will confuse the player, but this is really what we always ask for Nintendo (and 3rd parties) to do: give us options! Experiment with new control schemes, but let us revert back to the old if we find it most comfortable. I would hate to see Smash Bros. be handicapped by a novel control scheme that simply didn't work.

If only Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz included a traditional control scheme...

Man... 8 player smash would be incredible and sure as heck seems possible....

Did I not call this sideways wiimote earlier in the other Smash Bros. Forum? I believe I did, b/c the icon for the controls was a sideways remote, but all I got was a "no, you're crazy" and the like...well hahahaha, who's laughing now!!!...anyways, I really don't care about that...but I'm wondering if it'll be similar to excite truck for just the wiimote to move, by just tilting one way or another...that would definitely be interesting...everytime you flinch something new is happening. I'll give all the possibilities (except classic controller) a try, but GC controller will probably be the best.

Good to hear, I'll be able to jump into 4 player multi without extra investment.

Though possible, the site has confirmed since it's relaunch that it will be for 1-4 players. Unlike the msrp, oddly enough, that information is filled in on the right hand side.

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Originally posted by: Artimus
I am no Smash Bros. expert but doesn't the sideways remote kind of limit your button possibilities?

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well, 1 and 2 will probably be regular attack and jump, A will be special attack and B will be throw/sheild. OR, special attack will be shaking the controller and A will be throw/sheild. i think they are going to remove pressing up to jump due to the fact you can now aim weapons up and down and jump and shoot with them. um. i wouldnt wanna see 5-6 people on screen. i actually like smashh more when its a 2 player match. its more of a fighting game that way.

@Chasefox
wow, didnt think of that, to walk left and right you use the dpad, to run, you tilt..... that would be sweeeeeeeet. too bad 2 out of my 4 gc controllers recently broke.

If motion control has been implemented, then expect GC controller users to WTFPWN Wiimote users.

I'd assume that you'd double tap a direction on the D-pad to perform the tap maneuver, like tapping would make you attack up but double tapping would result in a jump but double tap + 2 would be a smash attack.

I assume the B-button will also be used as shield and B + 2 will = grab/throw.

It will take some time to get used to, but it should be doable. I just hope it isn't motion control because motion control doesn't belong in SSBB.

i think a quick shake of the controller to do a smash attack or throw an object isnt to difficult and probably very intuitive. time will tell young jedi.

I think this is great. I'm going with Cube controller. I mean I'm already used to it so why not?

It makes sense for Nintendo to offer so many control options even if it may confuse gamers. This game is for hardcore Nintendo fans who will pick up on all the references. "Confused" non-gamers need not apply. The SSB audience will appreciate the multiple options.

Since Nintendo has given us the best possible solution with four different ways to play, I'm going to carp and complain about the one control scheme I don't like. Not that me or anyone else will forced to play this way, mind you, I just like to whine about very important things.

Man I can't believe they are foisting the gamecube controller upon us again, how akward! Pull your head out of your rear end Nintendo, jeez....

Whatever. SNK gave us the ability to play with only the Nunchuk. Why can't Nintendo do the same for its own games?

I'm hoping Nintendo releases a Wii-style GCN controller (WaveBird Wireless). I mean one that is exactly the same as the original WaveBird, except it's made of glossy white plastic, with white and clear buttons, and a blue power light.

I have an unopened GameCube controller.

ONE DAY IT SHALL BE UNLEASHED ON THIS WORLD

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Originally posted by: therat
i think a quick shake of the controller to do a smash attack or throw an object isnt to difficult and probably very intuitive. time will tell young jedi.

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I don't think there is any way they will be able to balance all four types of controls. Chances are you'll just have to make sure everyone is playing with the same kind if you are playing competitively.

If you're not competitive then there's no problem.

Oh sweet, I was hoping they let you use the classic controller. I love that thing.

This is gonna have one HUGE instruction manual.

I actually don't like the idea of using the GC or classic controller, I think the game should have been built around the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to show that it is possible to have an intuitive fighter on Wii. Now when you play online if someone uses the Wii esque controls they will mostly likely get mutilated online.

I don't think the sideways wiimote is going to be unbalanced because it doesn't need to use any motion controls attacks

1 smash attack
2 attack
+ movement
^ jump
B throw/grab
A shield (can't move away)

The only motion controls would be tilt to run instead of flicking to analog stick....

From my post over at CAG:

Let's see. This is speculation.

Wiimote sideways: Map attacks to 1/2 (as A/B respectively). Map shield to B trigger. You lose potential L cancels (though you can do this with the trigger), Z deflection (since no longer have that button), and short hops would be much harder to pull off (I'm thinking you'll have to rely entirely on quick presses on the D pad). I like using buttons for jumps, so this mode is out, unless motion control is used in a very novel and precise way. Smashes = juking left/right with the mote, for example. Could work, but I dunno. Precision kills in fighting games.

Wiimote + Nunchuk: D pad on the 'mote becomes the buttons. So down = B attacks, right = A attacks. Up/Left = used for jumping. B trigger = shield. Nunchuk has two buttons that can replace L and Z. So theoretically you have replicated full button placement from the GC controller. Again, this leaves out motion control, but if they implement it well, could be very useful. This is marginally better than the above.

Edit: Oh yea. You lose the C stick with both of the above. But if you are using it, you are a bitch and I hate you (when you use it).

Classic: Basically mimics the GC controller exactly, with only exception than the Z trigger might be lost, which is no big deal since you ought to be to live without it. Would be really funny if the 'mote was still usable. Wangmotation indeed.

GC/Wavebird: Probably will be the preferred method still. Depends if there are any new moves that take advantage of the above controllers.

Which brings up an excellent point: What if each setup gains its own advantages over the others? I.e., Wavebird is "standard." Motion enabled controllers get special moves, like maybe your Final Smash becomes based on motion and can inflict more damage. A pipe dream, but would be a reason people might use different control sets. That would add a lot of strategy, actually. That would put down the arguments about "well you used X setup and I used Y and you had the advantage."

Great. Now I'm going to be disappointed if that isn't in the game.

Hmmm. What was last Friday's update? I wonder if every Friday might be a "big" update.

Ahhh. I knew investing in a complete set of Wavebirds for the Wii was a good idea, as well as four extension cords. I guess I ought to snag a few more wired controllers just for good measure, even though I think I have enough already.

"Man I can't believe they are foisting the gamecube controller upon us again, how akward!"

Yeah but a lot of us already have Cube controllers so we don't have to buy extra remotes to play four player.

"I actually don't like the idea of using the GC or classic controller, I think the game should have been built around the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to show that it is possible to have an intuitive fighter on Wii. Now when you play online if someone uses the Wii esque controls they will mostly likely get mutilated online."

This would assume that is IS possible to have an intuitive fighter on the Wii. Forcing the Wii controller to me seems too much like pushing a controller idealogy. With videogames the design should be "what controls will work BEST?" and when you're pushing a specific design to prove a point you're not doing that. If the Wii controller is so ideal for this type of game then it shouldn't matter if they offer four options. The best one will become the de facto standard. It is only because it very likely won't be the best that there is any concern. The desire to force something often is because deep down whoever is doing the forcing knows their way wouldn't win in a fair comparison.

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Originally posted by: Strell
From my post over at CAG:

Let's see. This is speculation.

Wiimote sideways: Smashes = juking left/right with the mote, for example.

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"Man I can't believe they are foisting the gamecube controller upon us again, how akward!"

Yeah but a lot of us already have Cube controllers so we don't have to buy extra remotes to play four player.

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Wii remote turned sideways? Gah, that blew my mind. Here's how I think it's going to work, though. I might actually like this setup, too... now that I've given it some thought.

--Wii Remote Only--
Left/Right D-Pad - Move character left/right. Double tap to dash.
Up D-Pad - Jump
B Trigger - Grab/Throw
A Button - Block / Evade (To evade, hold block and thrust the remote either left or right; same principle applies for air dodges and sidestepping on the ground.)
- Button - Taunt
+ Button - Pause
2 Button - Primary Attack / Smash Attack (To initiate a Smash attack, double tap direction on D-pad)
1 Button - Special Attacks (in conjunction with whatever direction is being pressed on D-pad)
**Tilt up/down - Aim weapons

See, very possible. Plus, I love the idea of motion based evasive maneuvers. I think that would work better than motion based attacks like most people are thinking is going to be the case. Sakurai's playing with everyone's heads right now. I love it. :P

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I actually don't like the idea of using the GC or classic controller, I think the game should have been built around the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to show that it is possible to have an intuitive fighter on Wii. Now when you play online if someone uses the Wii esque controls they will mostly likely get mutilated online.

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Originally posted by: vudu
Whatever. SNK gave us the ability to play with only the Nunchuk. Why can't Nintendo do the same for its own games?

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I think this is great. I'm going with Cube controller. I mean I'm already used to it so why not?

It makes sense for Nintendo to offer so many control options even if it may confuse gamers. This game is for hardcore Nintendo fans who will pick up on all the references. "Confused" non-gamers need not apply. The SSB audience will appreciate the multiple options.

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Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I think this is great. I'm going with Cube controller. I mean I'm already used to it so why not?

It makes sense for Nintendo to offer so many control options even if it may confuse gamers. This game is for hardcore Nintendo fans who will pick up on all the references. "Confused" non-gamers need not apply. The SSB audience will appreciate the multiple options.

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Holy crap. IAN LIKES SOMETHING?

*checks outside for armageddon*

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If I can't hook up my old NES Power Pad to play this, consider it a sale LOST Nintendo. You've been warned.

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By inferring that people who use the traditional controls will win against people who use the Wii esque controls, you are basically saying that it is impossible for the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to control a fighter on the Wii.

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Man I can't believe they are foisting the gamecube controller upon us again, how akward!"

Yeah but a lot of us already have Cube controllers so we don't have to buy extra remotes to play four player.

"I actually don't like the idea of using the GC or classic controller, I think the game should have been built around the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to show that it is possible to have an intuitive fighter on Wii. Now when you play online if someone uses the Wii esque controls they will mostly likely get mutilated online."

This would assume that is IS possible to have an intuitive fighter on the Wii. Forcing the Wii controller to me seems too much like pushing a controller idealogy. With videogames the design should be "what controls will work BEST?" and when you're pushing a specific design to prove a point you're not doing that. If the Wii controller is so ideal for this type of game then it shouldn't matter if they offer four options. The best one will become the de facto standard. It is only because it very likely won't be the best that there is any concern. The desire to force something often is because deep down whoever is doing the forcing knows their way wouldn't win in a fair comparison.

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Originally posted by: Pale

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I actually don't like the idea of using the GC or classic controller, I think the game should have been built around the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to show that it is possible to have an intuitive fighter on Wii. Now when you play online if someone uses the Wii esque controls they will mostly likely get mutilated online.

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By inferring that people who use the traditional controls will win against people who use the Wii esque controls, you are basically saying that it is impossible for the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to control a fighter on the Wii.

If anything, they'll be able to prove it if people actually start using it over the Cube controller when the option is still there, not if they were forced too.

As I've said for a long long time, change isn't always good. Smash is popular because the controls were sheer genius in their simplicity. That is one aspect that should never be messed with. Tweaks and additions, fine, but a wholesale change would be disastrous.

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I HATE when companies like Nintendo, Sony, and MS force controller ideologies that games need something other than the joystick to play, they are obviously worried that the joystick/button combo would win when compared.

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Originally posted by: Arbok

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I HATE when companies like Nintendo, Sony, and MS force controller ideologies that games need something other than the joystick to play, they are obviously worried that the joystick/button combo would win when compared.

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In this case, nothing is being forced, and, due to the nature of the market, chances are more people will be playing with the Wiimote than anything else, as that's what they bought with the system.

I don't see any reason for concern, it's not like they are forcing everyone to use the GCN controller, and to suggest that Smash Bros morph enough that it wouldn't be possible anymore on a traditonal controller seems kind of rash considering: how beloved the franchise is, that this is only the third game in the series, and it's coming half a decade after the last was released. There is hardly any concern for burn out, or anything else that would demand a huge overhaul in the formula.

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Originally posted by: IceCold

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By inferring that people who use the traditional controls will win against people who use the Wii esque controls, you are basically saying that it is impossible for the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo to control a fighter on the Wii.

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I don't think it is. First off, we're talking about Smash Bros, which is a series that started out with traditional controls and is heavily dependent on them for its intuitiveness. If you made a brand new fighting game based on the remote, it would turn out much better.

But more importantly, the remote isn't as well suited to 2D fighters. 3D fighters I can see the controller improving significantly in some cases, but on a 2D plane it's much harder to implement motion controls.

EDIT: Ohh, right.. Pale said that. This reminds me of his debate with zakkiel about the very same topic. I gotta look that one up.

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Nintendo has a vested interest in getting the Wii controls to be great in this premier title. I'm sure Nintendo the corporation won't let it go till it meets snuff because they now a lot of people will buy a Wii just for this game.

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Originally posted by: Mikemn
I'm hoping Nintendo releases a Wii-style GCN controller (WaveBird Wireless). I mean one that is exactly the same as the original WaveBird, except it's made of glossy white plastic, with white and clear buttons, and a blue power light.

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Originally posted by: Arbok

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In this case, nothing is being forced, and, due to the nature of the market, chances are more people will be playing with the Wiimote than anything else, as that's what they bought with the system.

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Except I would say that easily most of the people who own a Wii also own(ed) a Gamecube, and have GCN controllers sitting around.

Man, Nintendo won't ever do it, because so few people would buy it, but all I want is a modified wave bird receiver that incorporates 4 receivers and would fit snuggly in the top of the wii, maintaining the form factor and design, replacing those top lids all together.

That would be nice indeed.

I hope Nintendo releases a firmware update that lets us control the Wii with a GameCube controller. Since such a major title has GameCube controller support, it would be nice if we could start the game without having to use a Wii controller to select the disc channel.

Not very major, but a nice touch.

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Originally posted by: MarioAllStar
I hope Nintendo releases a firmware update that lets us control the Wii with a GameCube controller. Since such a major title has GameCube controller support, it would be nice if we could start the game without having to use a Wii controller to select the disc channel.

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Use the Classic Controller. Problem solved.

But the pointer is so much better, even in the beginning..