NOOOOOOOOO!

Fall? FALL?

Man...I'm gonna hafta make KHII last all summer.

Ah damn... we knew it was likely, but so far back? Funny, I just read wandering's thread on GameHead..

Well, that just killed my day, only 8 minutes into it..

I shudder to think of what this thread will be like 8 minutes into tomorrow..

When's Fall? What months?

Hmm, let's see. If e=mc^2 and the speed of sound is twice the distance the puck vibrated when the scalar quantity of molar enthalpy is -2, the months are September, October, November.

Which means the Rev and TP launches will be pretty close.

All I can say about the whole situation is.. bad move Nintendo.

I agree completely. I need my zelda fix dammit. What the heck do they expect me to do for games now that zelda has been delayed another half of a year!!!!

Hmmm, yeah it coming out so close to Rev is kind of awkward, there better not be any massive DS games coming out at that time too. Looks like i'm gonna have to pick up Buttalian Whores and / or Chibi Robo to satisfy my console cravings in the meantime.

So help me God, if this delay was to add some form of online you're all dead. All of you.

Zelda better be amazing to justify not being able to play it in the summer.

At this point, I'm sure Nintendo will make it a GCN/REV title. Consider it the flagship title of the backwards compatibility feature.
It might be good to have one really traditional title to go along with all the unique Rev-mote titles. It will assure consumers that with the shell (I presume) the new controller can be used for traditional gameplay mechanics.
Who knows, maybe Nintendo will even sell a Zelda bundle with the classic titles (NES through N64) showcasing the virtual console aspect, TP showcasing the backwards compatibility, and a demo of a new Zelda built around the new controller. What better way to show off all the Rev's strength's.

I think Twilight Princess could potentially hurt Revolutions launch, by taking the spotlight away from the ACTUAL launch titles. Unless there's a launch title that is comparable to Twilight Princess... then the earth would just explode.

Unless smash or mario wont be ready and nintendo panicked and said "DAMN DAMN DAMN JUST DELAY IT WE NEED SOME GOOD TITLE AT LAUNCH!"

This is not surprising, but yes, I agree that this raises doubts about the Revolution launch line-up. I suppose TP + Smash Bros. Online would be a decent pair, though not having Mario at launch AGAIN would be a shame.

this is pretty much expected.

Look I think its a smart move.

MANY PEOPLE will buy A GAMECUBE just for ZeldaTP, however if it is released in
near or after Revolution than people may reconsider buying a GAMECUBE and just buy the revolution.
They won't even care about freehand controller but having a excellent game would win them over since GAMECUBE will be dead as dirt when zelda comes out.

The buzz around PS3 will be big however like most launches it will be all flash and no substance.
Now if Nintendo has an excellent brand name for launch it can help the new system sell even if quality of games are not perfect Zelda could be a crown jewel in Revolution's lineup. Why not have 4 aces ?

WHo knows what if Zelda: TP, Mario 256, and Super Smash BRothers 3, Metroid Prime 3, Nintendogs 2(revolution) are all released in the same month. That would be a killer lineup, take out zelda and still a great lineup but having zelda only helps what is already a solid lineup.

Nintendo has done this before.

With Zelda: DX they re-released it with color and new levels to get peoples attention.
With Zelda: Oracle games they had GBA features to get people intrested.

People could of played Zelda on Game Boy without color but if they played the color version they get more so people have a reason to buy the new system.

I think PS3 will only have graphical demos for launch and nothing of serious greatness.
360 on the otherhand will put out every gun that is possible which may include Halo3 and Gears of War.

So having zelda release near Revolution can only help revolution damn GAMECUBE hardware.

If anything Nintendo might RE-release that zelda collectors edition disk and zelda TP with Revolution for a special price.
That collectors edition with a bunch of old games...

DS will the system of choice right now I might rent some cube games.
I would advise NIntendo to release more Japan only games in USA now we are in a dry spell.

Doshin the Giant, Gifitpia, Mario Kart arcade GP, sequels to some of the mario sports games like mario tennis 2 or mario baseball 2 etc.

for GBA:

Super Metroid, mario RPG, Earthbound 1-3

i'm crossing my fingers for voice acting in TP or a true epic quest. It'll be worth it
both for fans and NIntendo.

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Originally posted by: ~*Adolph*~i'm crossing my fingers for voice acting in TP

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What's with all those "Oh, no! I need Zelda!" posts? We're talking about a game here, not the rapture. A game that's still far off. Why do you even bother thinking about it? It's a complete non-issue presently. I don't think about future games until the release is imminent. Maybe I'm hyped up for a few hours after the announcement but that's it. Grab a PS2, upgrade your PC (if you need to) or look for games for the DS. There's tons of games still coming out for all the other platforms (and there are probably just as many GC games you still need to play). Enough that you won't have to cry about a game in the distant future.

Hell, I'm not even worrying about Supreme Commander yet, how can you expect me to cry over Zelda?

There shouldn't be anyone surprised...That is all...

Meh, it's saddening either way. Dates changed more often than a hooker changes streets

hmmm... What to do now? What could they further do to the series with the extra time? It has to be big, and Ganondorf's Presence must be felt!

It's probably going to be too big now. FLOP

I won't be surprised when they announce an extra six month delay for the PAL version.

jeez, Reggie's getting a habbit of spilling the beans...and Spike TV of all places? But yea, no surprises really, it really is gonna be a rev game no matter what anyone says. Nobody's gonna buy it for cube when you can get amazing functionality on the Rev. I think its a smart decision and being that the Rev will be cheap, it shouldnt be a huge problem for consumers either.

Actually, Fall ends in late December, the 20th or 21st I believe...also it starts in late September, again around the 20th-21st.

I guess Bestbuy was right after all, but just jumped the gun on announcing the push back.

Being anti voice acting in Zelda for so long, I've actually changed my opinion since playing DQVIII. It can be done right without the main character ever speaking. Basically, everyone else can have a voice except for Link and Zelda, then I'll be fine with it.

As for the delay. I saw it coming. I for one don't mind because I have plenty of gaming to catch up on. I share the concerns that Nintendo may be using this to make up for a weak Rev launch and/or the Rev is going to get delayed too.

Well Reggie still maintained a 2006 launch for Rev in the same interview, so I doubt it...And who really sees TP being a launch game as a bad thing? I guess it WOULD be pretty horrible if I had to divide my time between TP and a couple other awesome launch games!

All I can say is. Zelda being pushed back this long means Nintendo has another game they have worked 3+ years on. Every Nintendo game that has had this long of development time has equalled HUGE success, and has been a game that redefined not just the series but usually the industry all together.

What could change the industry Revolution Forwards compatiability.

I tell you right now, THIS game will have Revolution controller support. I would not be surprised if this game is being designed to use Revolution's technology to forward graphics. (Remember Nintendo talking about enhancing the graphics of older games. I can see later Gamecube games getting more enhancements then say Nintendo 64 or the 2D systems.)

I am not complaining. This means I will be playing Zelda on the Revolution as a launch title.

When I saw this news I, no lie, said "Awwwwwwwwwwwwww" really loud. My dad heard me and asked what happened? When I told him, he looked back at me and said, "What?" I told him again, then he just walked away.

I don't think he realizes the problem.

Don't worry guys we still have Odama!!!

And Rampage!

Well, yeah, there's Odama and Naruto and such, but man, this just takes the wind right out of my sails.

Thankfully the DS has me already more than busy, with 5 games I want for it alone in the next few months...

Pretty sure TP will be on the Rev AND the Cube as one purchase. (2 different discs) Not just using the Rev's controller, but graphical upgrades as well to display the Rev's capabilities. Release it on the Cube to satisfy current owners, but who is going to pass up the opportunity to buy a Revolution to play this game with the controller and the next gen graphics, especially if you have the Rev version right in front of you already! Talk about killer app.

That makes absolutely no sense...The backwards-compatibility is there, so making a separate Rev version is utterly pointless...

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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Thankfully the DS has me already more than busy, with 5 games I want for it alone in the next few months...

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The final slap in the face for loyal cube owners.

Ah sh!t.

Not that surprising but still frustrating as all hell. I seriously believe that it really hurt Nintendo to have such a huge gap of nothing between the N64 and Cube. In console news they were gone and I think that really hurt their hype. So for Nintendo to repeat the exact same mistake again is pretty damn annoying and, well, just plain stupid on their part. This is worse because the Cube hasn't had anything even resembling a healthy release schedule in over a year now. They were where they were on the N64 in 2001 on the Cube in 2005. Nintendo as a console maker, in the general public's eyes, doesn't exist. So how are they going to get any big hype for the Rev when they've been completely irrelevent to console gaming in general for over a year? They BETTER not be delaying Twilight Princess to fill in for a weak Rev launch. Weak Rev launch = dead Nintendo. I realistically don't see the Rev being even remotely succesful without an amazing first impression. No one is going to give Nintendo a chance to prove themselves. If it's a weak first impression people are just going to assume the Rev is going to be another "flop".

I do appreciate Reggie being very open and honest about the release date and not dodging the question. Reggie is great and it's a shame Nintendo didn't hire him five years ago when he would have made more of a difference.

"I guess Bestbuy was right after all, but just jumped the gun on announcing the push back."

So it really is delayed until 2500?

I dont believe it

This news almost has to say that Nintendo will do something REvolutionary with this title.

Possible enhanced graphical look for the REv and ability to use the remote controller as well are what I'm thinking.

If you look at the launch titles on the 360 you see a bunch of titles that are basically identical to the xbox and ps2 versions only with enhanced graphics. Even upcoming 360 titles are graphically enhanced xbox and ps2 ports. Titles like Fight Night 3 or BF2:MC for example.

Anyway somehow Nintendo will market this title for the Rev as well now.

I think that what happened is that they set a really high benchmark for the game, couldn't meet that in time for last fall, and had to delay it anyways. Then, since they knew the GameCube was already at the end of its rope, they decided to use it to help spur Revolution sales and are using that extra year to both polish the game as originally conceived and add some unknown Revolution bonuses.

In any case, I'm sad that I'll have to somehow squeeze the game in between reviewing the Rev launch line-up. I seriously hope Zelda comes out two weeks to a month before the launch so I have time to really enjoy it.

Also, Nintendo should have just announced the date when they originally delayed it. Now they get the bad press of it being delayed "again".

I agree; even though all they said was after March 31st, many people assumed that that meant in the spring..

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I seriously believe that it really hurt Nintendo to have such a huge gap of nothing between the N64 and Cube. In console news they were gone and I think that really hurt their hype.

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Friend of mine pointed out that, when he went to buy FF9 (released for the PS1 three months AFTER the PS2 was released), he picked up a PS2 at the same time instead of a PS1 because it just made more sense to buy a console that isn't technically "dying", especially when backwards compatibility won't be an issue.

Nintendo will play this same angle and it's a good one to play. Launch titles are NEVER going to be as strong as the titles released later in the console's life span so you might as well put out a good title with backwards compatibility to push the new console, especially if it has Rev features (which it very likely will).

As for the argument that Nintendo needs to "showcase the remote", I don't think it'll be a problem (it'll happen anyway), as the DS's features weren't truly explored until later in the console's life anyway and now there are plenty of games which would not be possible without a stylus.

Fall release? Its a pleasant suprise, but least we have a more specific time frame. Its a shame that there isn't much else in the meantime, but I got a big enough collection to keep me busy until then...

Anybody still believe that this will NOT have Rev features? C'mon now, they're not just delaying it for their health...

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Anybody still believe that this will NOT have Rev features?

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Well I've been saying this since last summer but THE PAIN IS MUCH AND LONG IN THE PLACE WHERE MY HEART ONCE STOOD. You guys can rationalize this and spin and whatever it takes but I say suck. SUCK!!
Yes I wii still get the game and it will be good and all and all and.....ah SHITT.



Kingdom Hearts 2 I look for you guidance.

Lies. I was watching that interview and I heard nothing.

Of course, maybe I just wasn't paying attention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh0Lw1qflJ4 (Reggie Interview, the Zelda part)

NOTE: Vid shows some TP gameplay footage, so don't click to avoid spoilers.

This actually makes it seem like it's being launched before Revolution. Seeing that made me happier.

You have got to be ****ing me, we probably should have seen this coming though (typical Nintendo). The game better not suck for this long of a delay. When I saw the episode I took it litely and thought he just said the wrong season. Looks like 2006 is going to be a crappy year for games like '05 (unless the Rev is really good).

TP is still 2006...

The Rev is slated for "before Nov 2006", correct?

I don't think we have any conclusive evidence to say that it'll be out before the Rev and not after, thus making TP a great game to pick up with a Rev.

EDIT: Also, after watching this video (of TP gameplay, so spoiler warning), I have to say that the jousting segments would be rather interesting with the Revmote...

Finally I could log on to the forums! did something happen? because I couldnt access PGC during the whole weekend, maybe my ISP is being temperamental right now...

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Originally posted by: Mario

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Anybody still believe that this will NOT have Rev features?

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I want to believe

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I'd bet parts of my anatomy that the Rev Zelda will blow "traditional Zelda" right out of the water on all fronts.

Just a prediction...

I bet they'll be different!

I'm sure they will, but the caliber of game Zelda Rev will be will very likely be something so far beyond the traditional Zelda's that they'll look like the very first game in comparison to OoT.

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Originally posted by: dack25
Looks like 2006 is going to be a crappy year for games like '05 (unless the Rev is really good).

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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Hahahaha, I certainly hope you aren't counting the DS in there...If you are, I pity you...

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I don't really care how much they delay it, I know I'm going to get it when it comes out, I know I will get a REV, I know I will trade in my gold-plated GameCube for the REV, so do I really care if some people go haywire because of this delay? Nope, all I say to those people is "that's a shame", but Nintendo sure could release some recent photos of the game so that I can continue reading on useless speculations.

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Originally posted by: Caliban
I don't really care how much they delay it, I know I'm going to get it when it comes out, I know I will get a REV, I know I will trade in my gold-plated GameCube for the REV, so do I really care if some people go haywire because of this delay? Nope, all I say to those people is "that's a shame", but Nintendo sure could release some recent photos of the game so that I can continue reading on useless speculations.

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They have the option of:

A) Release TP in April, having one last "Hurrah" on a dying system which lost home console marketshare from the very (lackluster) launch.

B) Release TP on or after the Rev launch, giving a delayed last "Hurrah" as well as promoting their new system as much as humanly possible to ensure it a brighter future than their previous system.

Look at it logically: not doing this for TP would be a huge mistake.

I would rather they never even announced it for the GameCube and developed it from the ground up for the Revolution instead of this..

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B) Release TP on or after the Rev launch, giving a delayed last "Hurrah" as well as promoting their new system as much as humanly possible to ensure it a brighter future than their previous system.

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Well, I don't agree that TP will do that to the Rev. First, no one would only buy a Revolution only for Zelda. No matter what functions Nintendo adds in, it's still a Cube game, and it can be played in its entirety with a GameCube. Therefore, whoever just wants Zelda is much more likely to buy a vastly cheaper GameCube than a Revolution. The NRC functions are great and all, but those alone won't persuade someone to drop money on a Rev by themselves; if someone buys a Revolution they will most likely buy other games as well.

Also, this won't be an issue if there are some quality games available at launch for the Rev. If we get a game that truly demonstrates the functions of the controller in a grand fashion (like SM64), then people will buy that game regardless. And MP3 and SSBR will probably be around sometime during the launch period; those games won't be affected as well since they are more than likely going to sell anyway. I worry about third parties, though, since their games can't be sparkling innovationy and shallow. Well, there can be a few of those which aren't expected to sell much anyway, but I hope the other third party offerings sell well too, since 3rd party tie in ratio is something that developers take notice of as much as anything.. But I'm convinced that if a 3rd party actually puts some efforts into Rev games, they will sell for what they're worth.

As well, Nintendo systems usually have a great tie-in ratio at launch. Zelda will only be a minor dent in this. Sure, it won't show up as a Rev game, so the tie-in ratio will be a bit less, but it won't drastically change how many copies of launch games are sold. Early adopters WILL buy more games, so there's little to worry there. And while it may cause a slightly lower ratio, it's selling hardware! Userbase is always extremely important, and Zelda will help spur Rev sales, which will only encourage 3rd parties to develop more for the Rev.

Any game Nintendo can get is all too welcome for the Rev launch. I'm not saying that Nintendo should have a weaker launch just because Zelda is there, but having it can only help. It will sell systems and not really affect the tie in ratio.

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Having said all of that, I agree with pretty much every thing else you had to say, Mario. I don't doubt this is a good business decision for now, but I'm very angry at Nintendo for doing it, and it may come back to haunt them in the future.

They would be essentially delaying the game to add in features that you can't even use unless you buy a Rev, which many Cube owners will not. So the GameCube owners will get cheated, since first they have to wait longer for a game when the system hasn't had meaningful support for a long time, but ALSO they won't even be able to use the features that caused the delay..

Twilight Princess won't take full advantage of everything the Rev has to offer, and therefore it won't be the complete and polished Rev game that I want. The true Zelda Revolution will push the controls and the Rev hardware, not only for graphics but to do things that the GameCube hardware just isn't able to (like how Pikmin couldn't be done on the N64). And at the very beginning of the development of this Zelda, Nintendo will be thinking about the Rev controls all the way, unlike TP.

I may be too sentimental, though..

IceCold your making no sense, psp has alot of decent games and still it doesnt have a huge system to game ratio with sales
and with the game being pushed back to rev, who says it will only be gamecube graphics? it could feature upgrades with the extra ram much like n64 games did, but on the scale were it still works on either
the same 30mins of video has been floating around for a year now, with a few random pics popping up here and there...alot has happened since then i bet

People buying a Rev for TP is good, not bad. That means they have the system in their homes and might buy other titles. Why should they stay with only one game for the system? Unless the Rev is dirt cheap that's a waste of money. As long as the launch has some good titles people will buy some of them as well. I don't think sales of launch titles will be hit much, after all TP isn't a full Rev game and when you've paid 200$ for a new console you want to see everything it can do.

I think releasing TP before the Rev will hurt its sales, people will think "Oh, I won't pick up a GC for that one game NOW, I'll just wait until the Rev arrives" and by the time it's there they might have forgotten about it. The worst thing I could see happening is GC owners deciding they can use TP to wait a bit longer before grabbing any next-gen consoles.

IceCold your making no sense, psp has alot of decent games and still it doesnt have a huge system to game ratio with sales

Decent isn't good enough. The titles have to be good or great, not just decent. Especially when you have to choose between playing all kinds of emulators or the system's own games (because the games will break emulator capabilities).

One of the cheapest upgrades for TP on Rev would be increased texture resolution (most likely they are drawn at higher resolution anyway and downscaled to fit memory constraints later). And please don't give me the "But it doesn't have HD, it doesn't need higher resolution textures!" crap, even at 640x480 the current console gen's textures are completely inadequate.

Me, I don't worry. I can wait and games don't get better after they've been released. So I prefer to have TP as good and future-proof as possible. The current generation almost hurts with its bad graphics by now, in ten years we'll be glad that TP has those upgrades.

They could always make the Twilight Princess "2nd quest" unlockable inly after you finish the GameCube version.

I think the boat of TP as a "killer app" has sailed already since last christmas, but the game just wasnt ready. From that moment on they are just losing and losing sales, TP wont be the killer app of anything, even if Nintendo is crazy enough to try to push it as "the killer app" for the rev. I think that if they wanted, they couldve released it last christmas, although it was incomplete, Im pretty sure it was "Wind Waker" incomplete, which mean it was already an awesome game anyway. But they stick to their promise. The way Reggie answered the question about the rev features makes it look like they havent even consider it.

I don't see how buying a Rev and TP can be bad. Is buying a Xbox 360 and picking up Halo, or Halo 2 bad for the 360?

Edit: TP will be pushed as a great *Gamecube* game. It'll also be used to stress the backwards compatability of the Rev.

" Now available for the Nintendo Gamecube... or play this and other great Gamecube titles on the new Ninendo Revolution - now available in stores everywhere."

I think this is probably a good idea from a marketing perspective, but it enrages me as a gamer. Now I have to rely on Chibi Robo and a bunch of old games to keep me entertained through to the next console. BOOO!!! That is not a good situation, Nintendo. If the Xbox 360 wasn't so overpriced, I'd seriously consider buying one now.

However, in the long run, it's too late for this game to make a huge difference to the GameCube, so why not add it to the Revolution hype? Assuming Revolution still has a good launch lineup, and assuming Nintendo is smart enough to include a good demo disc with the system, this can only be a good thing. If the company tries to use this as a substitute for a good launch lineup, Revolution may be screwed. If they don't include a demo disc...I think Revolution will still do fine, but I bet there will be a small percentage of people who buy the system with Zelda, and then let it collect dust because Zelda doens't show off the features that well.

But even though Nintendo has made plenty of mistakes in the past, I'm confident the Revolution is going to have a good launch lineup aside from this game.

Edit: I hope, I hope this game comes out in September. If it comes out in less than one month of the Rev launch, I will not buy it until the price drops.

"Now I have to rely on Chibi Robo and a bunch of old games to keep me entertained through to the next console. BOOO!!! That is not a good situation, Nintendo. If the Xbox 360 wasn't so overpriced, I'd seriously consider buying one now."

How many times do I have to point out the incredible DS lineup?

Also it makes me wonder why he's considering an XC when we're talking about horrible lineups. But well, you CAN buy one, just don't complain when it doesn't get any better through doing that.

Should this game be free? Either free w/purchuse of Revolution or get a Mail-in-rebate for one free Revolution game when you purchuse the Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. Something OR maybe the Gamecube should be free with purchuse of Zelda:TP.

Didn't they do something like this for the Zelda: Oracle games? How did those games compare to the sales of other handheld Zelda games?
Back to TP, they only have 1.5 GB to work with. Can they fit that much more in? I wonder if they're actually still working on it now, or if they pushed it back just to be closer to the Revolution launch? Either way, it will probably have less bugs. Although, some of the Zelda bugs were kind of fun...

Should this game be free?

What? No...People are going to buy this game no matter what...Freebies should be games that people wouldn't look at unless given to them...

Didn't they do something like this for the Zelda: Oracle games? How did those games compare to the sales of other handheld Zelda games?

All games in the Zelda series have sold around the same amount, with OoT being the exception...

"They have the option of:

A) Release TP in April, having one last 'Hurrah' on a dying system which lost home console marketshare from the very (lackluster) launch.

B) Release TP on or after the Rev launch, giving a delayed last 'Hurrah' as well as promoting their new system as much as humanly possible to ensure it a brighter future than their previous system.

Look at it logically: not doing this for TP would be a huge mistake."

I see it more like this:

1. Release TP in April and get Nintendo back in the minds of gamers. Zelda ends up on the covers of all the game magazines and on the front page of all the game sites. Great review scores spring up. Anyone who has had their Cube gathering dust is suddenly paying attention to Nintendo again because FINALLY another amazing must-play game has shown up. Stores are pushing pre-orders. Nintendo's got some buzz going again. This is perfect timing for E3 which occurs next month. People have a reason to pay attention to Nintendo again and, for a little while at least, are feeling good about them. So they're going to pay more attention to E3 which hopefully blows them all away and builds up interest in the Rev.

2. Nintendo remains a wallflower in the console scene until they launch the Rev. How much do you pay attention to the E3 showings of companies you're not interested in? Personally I really only pay attention to stuff relating to Nintendo. I don't really pay attention to the Sony or MS press conferences. I just sort of pick up some of the major info second hand but I don't pay much attention. E3 is a lot of information to digest. If you're looking at a magazine or looking over a site's E3 coverage you're going to skip the stuff you're not interested in. So if you're not really into Nintendo at the time you're not going to pay as much attention. You're not going to be as interested in the Rev. I think it's very important for Nintendo to have a moment of brilliance before they really start the Rev push. I think they need people to be thinking about Nintendo in a postive light prior to E3 and Zelda is the sort of game that can do that.

Plus this whole "plan" about using TP to try to help sell Revs assumes that current Cube owners are loyal to Nintendo. I don't think that's true. I think a lot of us are just f*cking sick of all the BS we've had to deal with lately. I think it's incredibly beneficial for Nintendo to end the Cube on a high note with Cube owners feeling good about Nintendo and feeling satisfied so that they're more likely to have faith in the Rev. Blind fanboys are the only Cube owners who right now have any faith in Nintendo and they'll buy the Rev no matter what. Nintendo needs the more casual Cube owners on board too. They should show the Cube userbase that they CARE because I sure as f*ck don't think they do. Releasing Zelda sooner is saying "we're sorry for all this crap you've had to put up with, give us another chance on the Rev." Delaying Zelda to fit the Rev launch is saying "we either are totally oblivious to your dissatisfaction or we just don't care. All we care about is that you buy our new console."

Right now I feel like a damn Sega Saturn owner.

And don't give me that lame "what about the DS" excuse. Nintendo cannot assume that any Cube owner owns a DS.

What about the DS?

Seriously, if someone doesn't have a game for something, they play something else (or actually go do something productive)...The DS is the best choice of every other system, so I CAN use the "excuse," thank you very much...

Crapper crap crappy. I desperately wanted to play this during the summer. Now I'm going to have to balance it with class and schoolwork and all that other college crap. Ugh, I just don't like this.
Is Kirby GC releasing during the summer? Maybe I'll have something to play. Ah well, there will be plenty for DS, and I've still hardly even started on Fire Emblem.
But still, TP during the summer would've kicked ass.

"Seriously, if someone doesn't have a game for something, they play something else (or actually go do something productive)...The DS is the best choice of every other system, so I CAN use the 'excuse,' thank you very much..."

I'm talking about how this affects Nintendo from a business standpoint. It is a fact that Nintendo's portable success has no effect on their consoles. So Nintendo can't assume a Cube owner owns a DS or even wants one. They can't assume this because the GBA release schedule had no effect on the Cube. It's really no different then suggesting someone will find something to do on their PS2 or Xbox. It's in Nintendo's best interests that Cube owners be playing games on their Cube and are satisified with their Cube.

Back to TP, they only have 1.5 GB to work with.

This is Nintendo we're talking about, they've probably filled up about half of that by now. They're not very wasteful with space.

Ian: I see scenario 1 more as "Everyone hears about that awesome new game. The GC owners grab it immediately but most others think that since the Rev is just around the corner it's better to wait for that. By the time the Rev actually arrives they have already forgotten that there was that Zelda game they wanted to play and stores have reduced stock of that game because it's supposedly past its primary sales window".

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
1. Release TP in April and get Nintendo back in the minds of gamers. Zelda ends up on the covers of all the game magazines and on the front page of all the game sites. Great review scores spring up. Anyone who has had their Cube gathering dust is suddenly paying attention to Nintendo again because FINALLY another amazing must-play game has shown up. Stores are pushing pre-orders. Nintendo's got some buzz going again. This is perfect timing for E3 which occurs next month. People have a reason to pay attention to Nintendo again and, for a little while at least, are feeling good about them. So they're going to pay more attention to E3 which hopefully blows them all away and builds up interest in the Rev.

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A few months can make a difference. The REV most likely won't be launched until around Thanksgiving. If Nintendo could get TP out by the end of September or even October it could still make an impact. Especially if it doesn't have the PS3 to contend with either.
I can't see Nintendo simply adding REV functions to existing gameplay. It just wouldn't feel right. They'll want to save that for a Zelda title built with the REV controller in mind. It's possible Nintendo could create a few mini-games only playable on the REV but if they really wanted to snag people into buying REVs they should create a whole mini-quest unlockable when you beat the main game that's actually designed around and only playable with the REV's controller. Even if it only consisted of a single dungeon and rematch with the game's villain, it would still be enough. Basically just a little preview of what the true Rev Zelda will be. With virtual sword fights, archery, spell casting, and puzzle solving.

"Simple question: do you remember the games you thought might be fun to play 7 months ago? Of course not: NO ONE does."

On the Cube remembering seven months ago is easy. Let's see. Seven months ago on the Cube I was playing NOTHING.

My idea is not to get people to play Zelda or hear about Zelda and then seven months later check out the Rev. My idea is that it creates more interest in Nintendo right before E3 thus attracting more attention to Nintendo's E3 presentation which if it's good will build hype for the Rev. A large part of my idea is existing Cube owners staying with Nintendo, something I don't think is going to be very common without some sort of "peace offering" from Nintendo to make up for a good solid year of nothing. You can say people don't remember seven months ago but they're sure to remember seven months ago better than over a year and a half ago. For most RE4 is their last memory of the Cube and it's already been over a year since it came out.

I'm not buying a Rev at launch baring some miracle. And that's because I don't trust Nintendo anymore. My optimism has been crushed by the last year or so. A Rev at launch just isn't a safe purchase because I have the feeling Nintendo doesn't really care about my satisfaction in their console providing I give them money. I can't be the only person who feels this way. Releasing Twilight Princess sooner than later would be a good PR move with their fans. It shows they realize we've had it pretty sucky lately and that they're going to make up for it. To me it seems like Nintendo does not give a sh!t that I've been pretty damn bored with my Cube for a while. Well, f*ck it, why should I even consider buying their next console if they're going to have that attitude? How dare they delay a game I've waited years for to add features I can only access with the purchase of a new console. When Twilight Princess debuted it was a tough time to be a Cube owner and it gave us this hope. Well in the end that was all just a tease. That's a HORRIBLE way to treat your fanbase. I think it's very damaging for Nintendo to delay this game for any Rev related reason. Hell in reality this has been a "tease" since that Spaceworld 2000 footage.

My fandom in Nintendo has been severely damaged by their repeated inability to deliver on their promises. If they want us to believe that the Rev isn't going to be another "flop" they should prove that they CAN deliver on a promise. Otherwise anyone looking for a reason to "wait-and-see" with the Rev has a big example of Nintendo not keeping a promise right from the get go.

Well this makes things even more curious:

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Speaking of GameCube, if you play a GameCube game on the new Revolution console, will you be able to use the Revolution controller or will you have to use the older style of controller?

(Reggie) Well, all of the GameCube games will be compatible only with GameCube accessories, so whether it’s a WaveBird or whether it’s a wired controller, you’ll only be able to play those titles with those accessories. Essentially what we’re saying is that Revolution titles are the only ones that will leverage the new controller.

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
My fandom in Nintendo has been severely damaged by their repeated inability to deliver on their promises. If they want us to believe that the Rev isn't going to be another "flop" they should prove that they CAN deliver on a promise. Otherwise anyone looking for a reason to "wait-and-see" with the Rev has a big example of Nintendo not keeping a promise right from the get go.

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Sounds like Reggie is maybe getting something mixed up. If what he's saying is true then backwards compatibility requires Cube controllers and I really doubt that.

"If they have to piss me off now so that the Rev can be a solid console in the future with great 3rd party support and a good library of games to choose from, I'm not going to pitch a fit over it and neither should you."

I don't think pissing me off now is going to give the Rev a solid future. I think quite the opposite. I think they risk losing too many existing Cube owners.

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I don't think pissing me off now is going to give the Rev a solid future. I think quite the opposite. I think they risk losing too many existing Cube owners.

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Even the N64 had Paper Mario and Conker at this point in its life. Nobody said "Go play your Game Boy Color" back then. They better have a spectacular launch lineup in development, even though it looks like Mario will be late again.

Bill, you can tell me to play my DS 'til you're blue in the face, but it's NOT the same thing. I don't care how many great games the DS has, hunching over a portable system is not like kicking back on my couch and playing games on TV. Yes, I'll be filling in a lot of time between now and Rev launch with my DS. I'll also be filling in a lot of time with my old GC, N64, Super NES and NES games, since there are plenty I have yet to finish. But if I owned a PS2, I'd be filling in time with Kingdom Hearts II, Final Fantasy XII, and the latest Shadow Hearts. That sounds a lot more exciting to me, and with an inevitable Rev drought coming up in Q1 2007, I wonder if maybe I should find a PS2 somewhere. I'm not dirt-poor like I was during the last two Nintendo launches.

Word. I got KHII preordered. Looking forward to that game. But yeah, handhelds are great, but I need console love. That's what my big chair and my TV are for. I never use it to actually watch TV.

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Originally posted by: DeadlyD
IceCold your making no sense, psp has alot of decent games and still it doesnt have a huge system to game ratio with sales
and with the game being pushed back to rev, who says it will only be gamecube graphics? it could feature upgrades with the extra ram much like n64 games did, but on the scale were it still works on either
the same 30mins of video has been floating around for a year now, with a few random pics popping up here and there...alot has happened since then i bet

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"It WILL, however, give a lot of people a reason to purchase the Rev which is, again, an attempt to avoid repeating the GC's history with the Rev."

That wouldn't work for anyone who owns a Cube already though. I guess there's two things to think of here.

1. Should Nintendo risk losing a chunk of their existing fanbase in hope to attract more newcombers to the Rev with Zelda?

or

2. Should Nintendo risk having one less high profile release for the Rev launch and rely on the Rev launch lineup alone to sell Revs?

This is tricky. I think number one is more important but they both have pros and cons. What if Nintendo did both? They release Zelda in the next little while for the Cube to keep the Cube owners happy and loyal and then when the Rev comes out that make Twilight Princess a Player's Choice title and have a new advertising campaign to draw attention to the fact that it's playable on both systems. The price cut would also save anyone buying the Rev just for Zelda some money so that they might spend some of the money they saved on a new Rev game as well.

I concur.

Theres also the posibility that the game simply isnt ready yet for the high standards they want to achieve! and now with the more recent comments by Reggie, this seems to be the case.

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Originally posted by: mantidor
Theres also the posibility that the game simply isnt ready yet for the high standards they want to achieve! and now with the more recent comments by Reggie, this seems to be the case.

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And risk killing sales on a game that's been in development for three years?

On the Cube remembering seven months ago is easy. Let's see. Seven months ago on the Cube I was playing NOTHING.

Point missed: We're talking about games on a platform you don't own. What seven month old (PS2/XBox, whichever you don't own) games would you buy if you picked up a new console today?

A Rev at launch just isn't a safe purchase because I have the feeling Nintendo doesn't really care about my satisfaction in their console providing I give them money.

Welcome to capitalism. Do you think Sony or MS care? Do you think any big corporation cares how you feel as long as you keep buying?

...but Ian wants them to care! So do I, but I know that's not realistic. Anyway, now that I've cooled down a bit, I'll summarize my opinion on this:

If Nintendo needs this time to make the game better, great! In fact I defended the delay last year because I feel Nintendo's games have been dropping off in quality. The thing is, this is the third generation in a row that Nintendo has left me with barely anything new to play in the year of a new console launch, and it's depressing. At least I had Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario on the previous consoles, this time the big title to keep me busy was going to be Twighlight Princess, but now it won't come out until the new system is practically ready anyway.

Yeah, it's not the end of the world, it's just a bad habit of Nintendo's that really makes me itch for a new console.

"Welcome to capitalism. Do you think Sony or MS care? Do you think any big corporation cares how you feel as long as you keep buying?"

I know how capitalism works. But some companies feel that the best way to make money is to satisfy their customers. That's how a company really builds a strong customer base. Otherwise you're just a con artist. Nintendo however too often takes us for granted and just assumes we'll support them because we're Nintendo. No corporation really cares about you but it's very beneficial for them to make you think they do.

Oh, those con artists at Nintendo. Taking a huge sales risk by delaying Twilight Princess just to make the game better! And, before that, taking a huge risk in sales by changing the art style of the zelda game they were working on to one they were actually passionate about and felt would create the better game overall. Those dogs!

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I know how capitalism works. But some companies feel that the best way to make money is to satisfy their customers. That's how a company really builds a strong customer base. Otherwise you're just a con artist. Nintendo however too often takes us for granted and just assumes we'll support them because we're Nintendo. No corporation really cares about you but it's very beneficial for them to make you think they do.

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The Phantom.

They haven't released a single late game yet!

"What's your basis of comparison here?

It's not Sony or MS, I know that for DAMN certain, so which mythical gaming company are you comparing Nintendo with which always makes its deadlines and never disappoints customers, ever?"

I'm not asking for a company that always makes it deadlines. I'm asking for a company that makes a serious effort to keep their customers happy. My comparision is oddly enough Nintendo who USED to be pretty good at doing this and has gotten worse and worse at it as time has passed. Its not an issue of never being disappointed it's an issue of very frequently being disappointed. I can deal with disappointments sometimes because that's life. But I'm pretty sick of constant disappointments combined with no attempts to fix things. It's the chronic nature of the problem that makes it a big issue. It's like you say to Nintendo "I don't really like this" and they say "Yes you do!" "This isn't very good." "Yes it is!" "I would really like this." "No you don't!" What other concole maker in gaming history has had that attitude?

Somehow Ian made this a thread of epic proportions and all that somes out of it is...

Ian doesn't like Nintendo.

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I'm asking for a company that makes a serious effort to keep their customers happy. My comparision is oddly enough Nintendo who USED to be pretty good at doing this and has gotten worse and worse at it as time has passed. Its not an issue of never being disappointed it's an issue of very frequently being disappointed.

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While I don't disagree about Nintendo making it more of a priority to listen rather than tell, I know for a fact that they're still the best in the industry when it comes to customer relations.

When the PSP's poor button placement rendered one of the buttons more difficult to press than the others, Sony insisted that gamers and developers alike would have to "adjust to it accordingly". When early PSP units had air bubbles or stuck pixels in the screens, Sony ordered the stores to not allow the units to be returned, forcing the customers to keep the bad units.

The first DS I bought had a stuck pixel. I was able to immediately exchange it for a new unit.

Don't get me started about Sony releasing better versions of their consoles for the same price throughout its lifespan, which leads some developers to take advantage of the new features, effectively screwing people who own slightly older versions of the console.

MS pulled ridiculous stunts to get people to use xbox live, like offering "downloads" which were actually already on the game disc but needed xbox live before they were unlocked.

When the xbox was first entering the market, MS had reps stationed at major store chains who basically lied like crazy about what the xbox could do and how the competition was inferior by comparison.

I understand that you're unhappy with Nintendo's attitude, but they're the lesser of three evils, by far. I'm not pissed at Nintendo because they're doing what needs to be done in order to compete in the gaming world, a world which has felt too much influence by fat, over-hyped sloths like Sony and MS. Nintendo basically has to be the "little guy with big dreams", otherwise they're just doing what Sony and MS are, just not as well.

Sony and MS have made the bare-minimum effort to keep their customers happy, far, far less of an effort than Nintendo has made, who still has the best customer service as well as a willingness to try new things in the gaming world.

You could read Sony or MS's spin and you'd come to the same conclusion: no matter who you hear it from, they're always going to say, "Our sh*t is the best and our competition sucks." Don't base the company on their spin: base it on their results in games, customer service and what they produce.

All things factored in, Nintendo is still WELL in the lead when it comes to quality and dedication.