It begs the question: what was first?

Or did I miss it?

The nearby Blockbuster Video STILL doesn't have Mario Superstar Baseball, even after my constant pestering to them to get it. They better get Super Mario Strikers...

And of course Mario is going to flood someone's lists. He has like a dozen games this year.

Burnout Revenge....

Burnout Revenge was seriously numbe one? Well, that game does rock. Anyone have Revenge, Live, and Mario Kart DS?

EA Burnout is teh I LOVE HALO 2. B2 will always be the best.

Hahahaha, say what you want but REVENGE is by far the most well-rounded game. Then it's B4 that takes the cake for most insane.

Burnout 4 is Revenge.

SCREW YOU NINTENDO WHORING MARIO OUT NOBODY WILL WANT TO PLAY THESE GAME-.. oh.

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Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
SCREW YOU NINTENDO WHORING MARIO OUT NOBODY WILL WANT TO PLAY THESE GAME-.. oh.

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Originally posted by: Renny
EA Burnout is teh I LOVE HALO 2. B2 will always be the best.

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I'm afraid Nintendo will read this as "let's throw Mario into even more unrelated games and never invent a new franchise again!". Grrr... Personally I'd prefer if they stopped putting Mario and friends into their games (maybe except for the platformers), I really hate that guy.

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Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
SCREW YOU NINTENDO WHORING MARIO OUT NOBODY WILL WANT TO PLAY THESE GAME-.. oh.

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Good thing that in his literally dozen games this year or coming soon, that they include a new platformer, New Super Mario Bros. and another RPG, Mario & Luigi: Partners In Time. I don't mind him playing sports and having parties all the time, but he's best in adventuring mode.

At least Mario's well-suited for spinoffs. Even though I'd really like Tetra's Trackers to have come in some form in the North American release of Four Swords Adventures, I'm not so sure that Link could or should be doing other things. Same goes for Samus. But then again I haven't played Metroid Prime Pinball yet, which sounds better than it initially did...

Anyway, about Nintendo whoring out Mario...was it Nintendo's idea or EA's to include him (and Luigi and Peach) in NBA Street v3 and SSX: On Tour? (And why not Daisy if they had to do it?) Somehow I doubt they made them sell tons better than they would have, at least not in "Link-in-Soul Calibur II" proportions.

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Originally posted by: 31 Flavas

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Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
SCREW YOU NINTENDO WHORING MARIO OUT NOBODY WILL WANT TO PLAY THESE GAME-.. oh.

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yea, certain members rattle on quite a bit about this, but honestly if it was such a problem, why is it that Mario games still sell so well. I think Nintendo does a very good job with keeping Mario games from getting stale.

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. And I'm probably going to miss out on Mario Kart DS, Mario DDR, Mario Baseball and Mario Strikers because I just don't have time for that much Mario

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Originally posted by: odifiend

They are whoring him out. These aren't Mario games, they are games with Mario in them.

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KDR, I'm not afraid Nintendo will, I know they will. I'm surprised Nintendo hasn't made a press conference themselves about this infromation.
Too bad most kids don't have jobs...

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Originally posted by: couchmonkey

I'm one of those members. I've started to realize that all the spin-offs don't seem to be hurting sales that much, but I still don't like it because it cheapens the series for me.

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Why would they need to state the ultra obvious?

Because they're publicly traded and telling shareholders good night stories keeps them calm, even if they've heard that story thousands of times already. You wouldn't want shareholders to start running around like headless chickens again.

Trust me, Mario won't die off just because you didn't buy his latest game.

Too bad, really.

Too bad, really.

In particular what Mario games do you judge not fun? (hence worthy of retiring Mario)

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Originally posted by: 31 Flavas

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Originally posted by: odifiend

They are whoring him out. These aren't Mario games, they are games with Mario in them.

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Uhm... games with Mario in them... arn't Mario games? Sony and Microsoft would do good to have their own flexable franchise(s)/character(s). Much in the way that SqureEnix has started to be flexable with the Final Fatasy franchise (i.e. Tactics Advance, Crystal Chronicals). If you stay the same and never change (like not let mario be anything more then a platformer) you'll wither and die.

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Just because Sony and Mircosoft would/do (Masterchief in DOA4) also whore their franchises out, doesn't mean Nintendo isn't doing it.

No, I am not saying to put master cheif in some ridiculus situation (i.e. Masterchief in DOA4), what I am saying is Sony and Microsoft would really benifit themselves by having a character(s) or franchise(s) that was as flexable as Mario is. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but neither have anything like that. They are all inflexable, Sam Fisher would be out of place anywhere but a stealth game, Master Cheif would be out of place anywhere but a FPS. What the hell else would you do with Blix? He's just this badass cat with attitude. Same with Crash Bandicoot. These are personas / personalities targeted at a very specific customers. The reason why Mario is so popular is because he can be enjoyed by everyone. Yes, children and athletic jocks alike can and DO enjoy mario. He's not just a stealth agent, or army general, or bad ass cat, or strange ape looking thing. Mario, Bowser, and his goonies (be it koopa troops, Bullet Bill, or his children) are characters you can really get to know and really like. Unlike Sam Fisher or Master Chief who's image you either identify as cool or not.

So would you say that DDR with Mario, SSX on Tour, and NBA Street v.3 are not examples of Nintendo allowing Mario to be in random games too freely?

DDR is a really fun and popular game. Mix DDR w/ Mario Tunes, graphics, and the characters that we all know and love and you've got a really great combination, its an excellent expansion of the Mario universe. You're a fool if you can't see this.

As far as the NBA Street, its a cameo first of all, not a lead role. And second its a great clash of stereotypes. "Oh you think you're such a bad ass, eh? Well i'm going to lay the smack down on you know with PEACH!" And as for SSX I didn't even know he had a cameo in there, doesn't suprise me though, he is univerally well liked, and probably a nice unlockable.

You know what is really pathetic? That for SoulCalibur 2, neither Sony or Microsoft had charaters to fit in as the system exclusive selectable character. Sony had to bring a weapon less fighter character in to a weapon based fighting game and Microsoft had to contract out for Spawn who supposedly is a good fit because because his costume is all black and shoots neon green goo.

It would almost be better if Nintendo had made new characters to be having parties and playing sports... If this stays the same and never changes, they'll wither and die.

The idea of Mario kart/baseball/tennis and such is that Bowser and Mario can set aside their differences for a moment and just have some fun togther. You personally may not enjoy the game, but thousands of other people do. You wonder why Mario Party continues to sell well? Geez maybe because its constantly changing and its just a good party game?

Many Nintendo fans have to be experiencing a Mario saturation. Nintendo's entire line is practically Mario.

You're got very limited sight then. What about Pokemon? What about Zelda, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Nintendogs? What about those nice 3rd party games like Megaman, Castlevainia, Advance Wars, Fire Emblem. There are plently of other games to play.

DDR is a really fun and popular game. Mix DDR w/ Mario Tunes, graphics, and the characters that we all know and love and you've got a really great combination, its an excellent expansion of the Mario universe. You're a fool if you can't see this.
Why do you feel that the Mario universe needs to be expanded? More importantly why does Mario need to be present in a game that is really fun and popular on its own? With this Mario borrowing move, Nintendo is placing themselves in a vicious cycle. 3rd parties will start demanding Mario in their games in hopes of moving a couple more thousand units. But as couchmonkey was saying earlier, you get overloaded with Mario.

"You know what is really pathetic? That for SoulCalibur 2, neither Sony or Microsoft had charaters to fit in as the system exclusive selectable character. Sony had to bring a weapon less fighter character in to a weapon based fighting game and Microsoft had to contract out for Spawn who supposedly is a good fit because because his costume is all black and shoots neon green goo."
Hiatchi is Playstation exclusive and also part of Namco's own line of fighters. Spawn was contracted because Todd MacFarlene, Spawn's creator, was a huge presence in Soul Calibur 2. He also designed Necrid. Fanboyism is tolerated only if you know what you are talking about...

"The idea of Mario kart/baseball/tennis and such is that Nintendo wants to cash in on Mario's appeal" - fixed it for you...

Umm, Advance Wars and Fire Emblem are first party.
31 Flavas, I dare you to ratio Nintendo's other franchise games to mario's games on the GCN. Here I'll start you off:

Fire Emblem: 1 Advance Wars: 1/2 Pokemon: 3 Zelda: 1 Donkey Kong: 4 Kirby: 1 Nintendogs: 0 Mario: ~20

I thought the idea of videogames was to have fun.

How naive of you.

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Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
I thought the idea of videogames was to have fun.

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In particular what Mario games do you judge not fun? (hence worthy of retiring Mario)

It's not so bad that they become bad games but they would have been better without that annoying plumber in them and maybe Miyamoto locked into the basement while they're making up the story (He reportedly vetoed a much deeper storyline in Wind Waker). Mario games are often VERY bad in the story department, even compared to other games in the genre (either very simplistic or downright stupid stories. Dance to retrieve the magical notes???).

Would Mario Kart be worse if it had original characters in it instead of the Mario cast? Do games like DDR with Mario, Mario Baseball, Donkey Konga, Mario Smash Football, Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, etc really need the Mario cast? Personally I'm tired of the Mushroom Kingdom and its inhabitants. I mean, how many new faces have joined Nintendo's lineup this generation (not counting the Pokemon because those aren't really characters)? If they keep up this pace they'll end up with no more characters they could add to Smash Bros succ(Revolution). As others are stagnating in gameplay Nintendo is stagnating in settings for their games.

its an excellent expansion of the Mario universe. You're a fool if you can't see this.

Poland was an excellent expansion of the Third Reich but that doesn't mean the Reich was any good now does it?
Come to think of it... A Kingdom of mushroom people ruled by a despotic human leader who needs to feed her flesh eating umbrella in order to feel anything, abuses the citizens for many things (Toad as a human/mushroom shield in SSBM?) and quells any uprising with the help of her two guards, judges and executioners, Mario and Luigi, who relentlessly use violence to kill the people of the neighbouring Koopa Kingdom and even enlist the help of a dinosaur that devours anyone in its path? But then again, Mario is more like Stalin.

odifiend: I don't know about you but I count Donkey Kong as "Mario cast".

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k

but they would have been better without that annoying plumber in them

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I wont buy a game without Mario in it.

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Originally posted by: Mario
I wont buy a game without Mario in it.

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I won't buy a game without Daisy in it.

None of these Nintendo fanboys gave Nintendogs or Pokemon a chance because Mario wasnt in the games

Pokemon came out before any of this Mario proliferation was a problem. Nintendogs apparently has struck a chord with nongamers (to the point people are buying all 3 copies like Pokemon funnily enough). Nice try though...

Eh, Nintendo's been whoring Mario out sense the very beginning (see: tennis, Dr. Mario, mario's time machine, etc). Sure, I think he's been overused a bit much lately, but I think it's understandable because Mario sells and Nintendo's been hurting financially lately.

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Originally posted by: Odifiend
It would almost be better if Nintendo had made new characters to be having parties and playing sports... If this stays the same and never changes, they'll wither and die.

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
and maybe Miyamoto locked into the basement while they're making up the story (He reportedly vetoed a much deeper storyline in Wind Waker).

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One simple fact proves that Mario is overused: Super Mario Sunshine didn't sell Gamecubes.

Mario used to be a big deal. A Mario game was an event. Super Mario Sunshine should have been an event. It was the first "real" Mario game in six years. But nobody but us hardcores noticed that because to the general public Mario games come out every few months so Super Mario Sunshine wasn't anything special. With Mario it should just be "a new Mario game is out" and BOOM million copies sold.

I think Mario would be a bigger deal if there just wasn't so much stuff with him in it. A lot of it is redundant money grabs too and it just makes Nintendo look like unoriginal rehashers. Do we need an annual Mario Party game? No. Do we need Mario in unrelated EA games? No. Was there any reason whatsoever for Camelot to make sequels to Mario Golf and Tennis when the N64 nailed the formula pretty much perfectly and there are tons of other sports Nintendo could use which they did ANYWAY with soccer, baseball and basketball? No. Do we need a Mario pinball game that plays like crap? No. Do we need every Mario related game under the sun ported to a portable system? No. Nintendo doesn't have to stop making Mario spinoffs altogether they just need to get rid of the filler and that would improve both Mario's and Nintendo's image.

"Mario sells and Nintendo's been hurting financially lately."

Mario spinoffs sell games to an existing userbase but they don't sell consoles. If they did then the Cube wouldn't be in last place. Nintendo needs something to sell more consoles and more Mario and more franchises period aren't the answer because the Cube is PROOF that those aren't enough to sell consoles. No one who didn't buy a Gamecube to play a billion Mario spinoffs would buy any other Nintendo console to do the same thing.

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane

One simple fact proves that Mario is overused: Super Mario Sunshine didn't sell Gamecubes.

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SM64 DS was something everybody loved but with extra stuff. which is why it sold. Let's not for get that it was also the only good game out on the DS for a while.

Mario Sunshine didnt sell as much because it was recieved poorly by the stupid gaming community because it was so different, it had nothing to do with Mario being overused.

Well, I think all the mario games could've lead to sunshine's relatively low sales, that's an interesting point.
...but, more likely, I think, is that sunshine's late (i.e., not at launch) release date, combined with the game's somewhat underwhelming content (don't get me wrong, jumping around in that thing is INCREDIBLE....but you have to admit the game is no Super Mario 64), combined with a surprising number of apparently competent 3d platformers this gen (Jak and Daxter, etc), are what lead to the game's disappointing (though still quite good) numbers.

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Mario spinoffs sell games to an existing userbase but they don't sell consoles.

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