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Nintendo and Konami Announce DDR with Mario

by Daniel Bloodworth - January 7, 2005, 12:44 am EST
Total comments: 82 Source: Nintendo

Mario gets ready to lose the pounds.

Nintendo and Konami announced today that not only is DDR finally coming to GameCube, but that Nintendo's number one plumber will be throwing his weight into the project (which seems to be becoming a trend lately). Dance Dance Revolution with Mario is being co-developed by Konami and Nintendo, published by Nintendo, and is due for a summer release in Japan as a dance mat bundle. In addition to the familiar rhythm-based gameplay that many Nintendo fans have missed out on for years, DDR with Mario will also include several mini-games. Although specifics on the song list have not been made available, it's a safe bet that at least a handful of Nintendo-themed tunes will be included.

DDR with Mario will be on display at Nintendo and Konami's booths during the Next Generation World Hobby Fair in Japan, which starts on January 16th.

Thanks to Chris Kohler for additional translation help!

Nintendo Confirms NBA Street V3 Partnership

Mario, Luigi, and Peach will indeed be dunking over Kobe and LeBron.

MARIO, LUIGI, PRINCESS PEACH TAKE ON THE NBA'S BEST

Nintendo All-Stars Take to the Street in EA's NBA STREET V3

REDWOOD CITY, Calif. – January 5, 2005 – Electronic Arts (NASDAQ: ERTS) and Nintendo announced today a partnership that brings the Nintendo All-Stars – Mario™, Luigi and Princess Peach – to the Nintendo GameCube™ version of NBA STREET V3, scheduled to launch in February under the EA SPORTS BIG™ brand. The game is being produced by Electronic Arts Canada, the studio that also is home to the industry-leading NBA LIVE and NCAA® March Madness® hoops video game franchises.

Featuring today's biggest NBA stars, a collection of the league's all-time greats, a Hall of Fame cast of past STREET characters, and now, for the first time ever, Mario, Luigi and Princess Peach, NBA STREET V3 is non-stop, action-packed fun. Mario, Luigi and Princess Peach are available to play as the Nintendo All-Stars team, while they are also available to compete individually in NBA STREET V3's new slam dunk contest.

"We're very excited to be able to incorporate the Nintendo All-Stars, as well as their own authentic Nintendo court, into NBA STREET V3," said V3 executive producer Wil Mozell. "There's nothing quite like seeing Mario, Luigi and Peach taking the over-the-top gameplay of NBA STREET V3 to the extreme as they square off against some of today's top NBA stars and all-time greats."

"Nintendo's characters have always proved they can compete on the world stage," says George Harrison, Nintendo of America's senior vice president of marketing and corporate communications. "Now they'll show that they can compete on the streets as well."

The highly-anticipated third chapter in the multi-platinum-selling series expands on the fast-paced and larger-than-life game play that has made the franchise a hit. The all-new Trick Stick and interactive Gamebreaker control elevates the game to new heights with unmistakable style and attitude. NBA STREET V3 is also packed with highly detailed authentic street courts, deep player customization options, and new Court Creator.

Talkback

S-U-P-E-RTy Shughart, Staff AlumnusJanuary 06, 2005

MARIO IS FAT LOL

but hey, everybody on this forum wanted it faustsmiley.gif

MarioJanuary 06, 2005

Awesome!

Can't wait to see how the mini games turn out, and the music. Should be fun.

I hope Nintendo publish this so it comes to PAL regions.

KulockJanuary 07, 2005

It's a neat idea... but I wish Nintendo had organized it with a different license instead. A very similar polymodel already looked awkward in NBA Street, now we've got to watch it try to dance? That's just going to look bad. :/ But the minigames look decent, at least.

BloodworthDaniel Bloodworth, Staff AlumnusJanuary 07, 2005

From the screens, I'm not entirely convinced that Mario himself is going to "dance". I think that more likely, he'll be hopping through a stage and bopping enemies to the beat of the song, but who knows?

WackerJrJanuary 07, 2005

Why are we only getting these games now???

Why couldn't these companies have made these games last year or the year before? THAT'S when they would've made a big difference!

Don't get me wrong, i'm very happy that companies like EA and Konami are producing these games with guest appearances from Mario and co, but I just feel that with the announcements of next-gen consoles at E3, these games could've made a bigger impact and helped Nintendo had they been produced much earlier!

Bill AurionJanuary 07, 2005

No, this is a very good thing...This means that Ninty is getting better at garnering 3rd party support, and this is the HUGE difference that next gen can make...

PaleMike Gamin, Contributing EditorJanuary 07, 2005

This is freaking out freaking standing!!

Just made my day =P!!!!!

NinGurl69 *hugglesJanuary 07, 2005

THE INTERNET IS GOING NUTS

NephilimJanuary 07, 2005

hopefully this will be hard unlike the ninja and disney ddr games
The screens look good but Im not to keen on the star bar
The graphics look good too, hopefully most of the stages with have there own background events (seen mario jumping) and not just a high res image like most ddr songs

Spak-SpangJanuary 07, 2005

This is pretty cool, and this has alot of potential promise.

Nintendo is making connections with 3rd party developers and they are giving exclusive benefits to Gamecube owners...however this could be dangerous and could backfire.

Soul Caliber was a huge success including Link as a playable character, and most likely NBA Street with Mario All-Stars will be a big success too.

But eventually Mario is going to get old. Throwing him out into the public sea too often for guest appearances and stuff could get tiresome. And the first game that sells bad even with Mario in it as a bonus will once again scare 3rd party developers.

Will Mario DDR be the game that does this? Probably not. But when will Nintendo draw the line?

Will the Next Tony Hawk or SSX get a hidden Mario character?
Will Mario continue to learn to play Baseball, Hockey, Waterpolo, Cricket?
Will Nintendo have to make these deals to continue to persuade developers to the next generation system?

Its good to see Nintendo working and building relationships with developers, I am just worried to see what happens if anything goes bad.

Ian SaneJanuary 07, 2005

Can it be? Is Konami actually making a worthwhile Gamecube game.

I don't want Mario to be everywhere and having two third party game appearances in a row find of makes it look like he is. But this one is significant. This is DDR. NBA Street doesn't really have a hardcore fanbase. DDR does and this looks like it's an exclusive game. Plus with NBA Street the Cube was getting the game anyway regardless of Mario. But this looks like a specific deal setup to get DDR to the Cube. Don't view this as another Mario game view it as a new DDR. Having Mario in it just seems natural.

Looks like Donkey Konga was a pretty good idea. I'll bet its success is why Konami felt this was worth a risk.

SaviorJanuary 07, 2005

Quote

But eventually Mario is going to get old.


Agreed... but its probably the only way to get the Nintendo fanboys to buy Third Party Games... Its the sad state of affairs that Nintendo lives in

Bill AurionJanuary 07, 2005

but its probably the only way to get gamers with brains to buy Third Party Games

Fixed... face-icon-small-smile.gif

joshnickersonJanuary 07, 2005

Freakin' sweet!

KDR_11kJanuary 07, 2005

I'm waiting for Mario DDR vs. Donkey Konga...

CHENJanuary 07, 2005

That would be crazy!

Michael8983January 07, 2005

I don't think we have to worry about Mario getting old because his games are so varied and the cameo appearences are just that ... merely cameos in games that really aren't Mario games at all.
If Nintendo was merely releasing a new Mario 3D platform game every year, it would get old. But there have actually only been like TWO Mario platform games in eight years. It's forever since we've gotten a traditional Mario 2D platform game. Just one Mario Kart per console. One Mario Tennis per console. Etc.. Mario Party is the only Mario franchise that is being over-used but that's not such a big deal as it's not the type of games that lends itself to innovation anyway. If people get sick of one Mario franchise, there's always an entirely fresh new one around the corner.

joshnickersonJanuary 07, 2005

Playing the bongos while playing DDR... insane! Or brilliant?

Spak-SpangJanuary 07, 2005

Here is the game I want.

Mario DDR Vs. Donkey Konga

Exclusive Mode....VERSE MODE.

Think about it.

1)You could have the Konga player hit the Konga to the beat of the music recording steps that the dancer would have to do. (Might be hard to do since there is more variety in DDR than is available to program within the Kongas)

2)An easier means to create verse. The Konga player actually manipulates the beat to the music. The song is choosen and the Konga player can use the Kongas to change the beats speed. Hit his roll faster and he can make the song speed up, or slow it down.

3)Last is have a more regular competition. Have the screen show DDR moves and Konga lines and whomever can get a higher score wins.

(I really wish Nintendo and Konami could be this creative with the game.)

RobageejamminJanuary 07, 2005

...holy crap this is awesome. This could be big if Nintendo really takes hand in it. I saw a mention of minigames which is a good sign to me. Something that can separate it from other DDR games. As for the whole Mario NBA Street looking like crap deal, i don't think we have to worry. It's definitely not the same deal at all in DDR. Oh, and I don't think Mario will be getting old for quite a long while. As Michael8983 said, Mario is pretty much everchanging nowadays. After over 20 years now, I think the plumber knows what he's doing.

MaleficentOgreJanuary 07, 2005

I'm am generally excited for this. wait. no I'm not. I've never been a big DDR fan. but if the song list includes techno mario theme songs and a new kokiri forest track I'm all there. All I wonder now is if we'll be flooded with DDR sequels with nothing new to offer.

couchmonkeyJanuary 07, 2005

*January 7th, 2005 was the day I stopped caring about Mario*

Good use of Mario, nice to see Nintendo recruiting more third party support, yadda yadda yadda. In spite of that, I'm not spending $500 on games just because they have Mario in them this year. As far as I'm concerned, chasing the NBA announcement with this one qualifies as "jumping the shark". Now instead of being motivated to buy games I didn't care about until they added Mario to them, I suddenly feel free from the desire to own any of them. I'll never have a complete Mario collection, so there's no point in wasting my money on any of the spin-offs anymore, including the decent ones like Mario Golf.

Still a nice announcement, but I thought Mario was already overexposed in 2004. If I buy this game it will be because I'm intrigued by dancing games, not because of Mario.

MaleficentOgreJanuary 07, 2005

Mario is actually an incentive to buy a game for gamecube now. why get it for xbox when I can get it for cube with Mario. there we go. and maybe this will lead to konami giving us something other than, well, they haven't really given the cube anything have they. this is a grand start.

PaLaDiNJanuary 07, 2005

"and maybe this will lead to konami giving us something other than, well, they haven't really given the cube anything have they."

Come on. They gave us MGS:TTS, which apart from MGS3 is the best game they have produced since MGS1.

I know they didn't actually make it, but still.

PaleMike Gamin, Contributing EditorJanuary 07, 2005

couch, your melodrama is hillarious... get a clue.

'My name is _____ and i'm an elitist as$hole'

VideoGamerJJanuary 07, 2005

This is so damned awesome!

ProcessionJanuary 07, 2005

LAME.
Nintendo really needs to stop renting Mario out and throwing him in any game they can't come up with an original identity for.

What's worse is seeing most of the posters here go nuts over it. Who cares if it has a fat plumber in it? It's still the same freakin' game you played at the arcade in 1999!!!

Please people, do the world a favour and skip this sort of rubbish and instead go out and purchase a good, original, interesting game like Ikaruga, Beyond Good and Evil, Alien Hominid or DK: Jungle Beat. Just anything that isn't a sequel or rehash starring Mario will do, come to think of it.

Spak-SpangJanuary 07, 2005

I just realized.

My idea for inputting the dance with the Bongos, could easily be done with a Gamecube Controller or even the Gameboy advance.

They could even have a create a dance mode where you create the dance for a song.

I think the impromptu verse create-a-dance mode is definately the coolest idea, but so is creating your own dances, being able to speed up and slow down the tempo of the music.

Bill AurionJanuary 07, 2005

There's way too much "Wahhhh Mario is in another game let me sit here and whine boo hoo"

You eggheads need to get it through your thick skulls that most of us here are excited about getting a unique twist on a game we've wanted for the Gamecube for years...

CHENJanuary 07, 2005

0_0 You sure are cranky lately. Not the cheery fellow I once knew.

They're entitled to their opinions even though we may not like it. Even if they're uninformed or stupid or whatnot.

Bill AurionJanuary 07, 2005

Am I? Sorry! ^_^

But there really is a difference between having a educated opinion and just outright complaining, at least, in my opinion that is... face-icon-small-wink.gif

And if you want to complain, don't be so baby-ish about it...

King of TwitchJanuary 07, 2005

1)You could have the Konga player hit the Konga to the beat of the music recording steps that the dancer would have to do. (Might be hard to do since there is more variety in DDR than is available to program within the Kongas)

2)An easier means to create verse. The Konga player actually manipulates the beat to the music. The song is choosen and the Konga player can use the Kongas to change the beats speed. Hit his roll faster and he can make the song speed up, or slow it down.

3)Last is have a more regular competition. Have the screen show DDR moves and Konga lines and whomever can get a higher score wins.


My idea is so lame in comparison; I was just thinking, have it like Jungle Beat, left and right move Mario left and right, up is jump, down is punch or something. Or if you got two dance pads you could have some kind of SSBM fight. (but it'll probably just be a dance game - not that there's anything wrong with that)

I'm still waiting for a Mario and Sonic RPG

CHENJanuary 07, 2005

I agree Bill, just that most of the whiners are probably immature and would be better off ignored. You can't please everyone. Internet + anonymity = well, you know.

nickmitchJanuary 07, 2005

Just when I was about to buy Mad Catz MC Grooves Bundle.

SaviorJanuary 07, 2005

Quote

whiners are probably immature and would be better off ignored.


Now this is funny. anyone who doesnt agree with you or Bill is Immature and thus should be ingored?

Complaining about random things fine. But Nintendo renting Mario Off is a legitimate complaint. Does it mean that if Konami released DDR without Mario, would it sell as well as it will now? Thats a legitimate point. Whats next, Mario Karts in NFSU3... Link in the next Prince of Persia?

Bill AurionJanuary 07, 2005

"Now this is funny. anyone who doesnt agree with you or Bill is Immature and thus should be ingored?"

Good job completely misinterpreting what he meant... face-icon-small-thumbsup.gif

You make me look like some elitist that knacks on every post that I don't agree with, which is hardly the case...My post was mainly pointed at those that see almost everything in a negative tone (you know who you are) and rarely are positive...It's fine to say "Hmmm, this could be good or bad, depending on how well the game fares," but not "OMG THEY ARE USING MARIO ARG FRANCHISE NOT NEW CHARACTERS HATE ANGST" as if it's the end of the world...I like to look at things in a positive light and nothing ruins my day more than those that live in doom-and-gloom land...

SaviorJanuary 07, 2005

Well I was talking about his post not yours.

Mario DDR is fine. Mario in NBA Street is fine. ( I would have gotten it regardless. NBA Street 2 was one of the best sports games ever) and Link in Soul Calibur was fine.


It becomes a problem if it happens too much. If Konami makes other games for the cube, without the crutch of Nintendo characters then Great!. If the only way Konami makes games for Nintendo then youve got a problem.

BloodworthDaniel Bloodworth, Staff AlumnusJanuary 07, 2005

Well, I know for me that the strategy worked, not because I'm a huge Mario fan, but with NBA Street, the comedy of it got my attention, and then I got to thinking that I don't actually own any basketball games and would probably enjoy this one.

With DDR, it's one of these things that a lot of die-hard Nintendo fans have peered over the fence at in envy, and now not only do we finally get the game, but we get this crazy Mario version of it too. I'm a bit worried about it being watered-down, but I think it will definitely get the attention of Nintendo fans and make them want to at least check it out. Then the ones that like the idea will end up buying it.

Now, just give me my Mushroom Kingdom Katamari Damacy please...

KnowsNothingJanuary 07, 2005

YESH

I have never played DDR before but I have been ACHING too. MARIO YES

ProcessionJanuary 07, 2005

What's amusing about Mr. Aurion's post is that he doesn't argue the point, instead dismisses it as "whining".

Let's look at how many games Mario has appeared in, in this generation...

Mario Power Tennis
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Super Mario Sunshine
NBA Street Vol. 3
Mario Kart: Double Dash
DDR w/ Mario
Mario Baseball
Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour
Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
Mario Party 4
Mario Party 5
Mario Party 6

12 GAMES!!! That doesn't even include indirect spin-offs, like Luigi's Mansion and Wario World, and cameos in games such Animal Crossing. Think how much larger that figure gets when you include DS and GBA titles.

I'm a little Marioed out, and wouldn't be surprised if the public is too. I'd rather see new franchises than more games starring Mario, and the gravy train can't roll on forever.

Bloodworth: As a Nintendo fan, it doesn't hold any extra appeal for me. DDR is DDR, as far as I'm concerned, and the same game I played in the arcades 6 years, with Mario or without him.

By the way, what happened to kicking the much-lamented "younger audience orientated" image?

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJanuary 07, 2005

>Let's look at how many games Mario has appeared in, in this generation...

Now, let's compare that list to the SNES generation (generally considered Nintendo's prime)... SMW, SMW2, Yoshi's Sarfari, Super Mario All-Stars, Super Mario Kart, Mario Paint, Dr. Mario/Tetris, Super Mario RPG, Mario's Time Machine, Mario is Missing, the three Mario's Early Years' titles.. Anything else I'm missing?


Anywhoo, anyone who is excited about this needs to be thanking Mad Catz... Perhaps their unexpected move into the game-market gave Konami a bit of a scare.... I wonder if their dance mat will work with this version of DDR... Might give me an excuse to pick up the Mad Catz game, since I'll need a second mat...

Hostile CreationJanuary 07, 2005

Nintendo 64:
Super Mario 64
Mario Party 1
Mario Party 2
Mario Party 3
Paper Mario
Mario Tennis
Mario Golf
Mario Kart 64
Super Smash Brothers

That's nine, and I'm pretty positive I forgot a few. Besides, Mario Baseball hasn't even been released yet. We have about four screenshots of it, so far as I know.
I don't care either way. Just makin' a point. This ain't nothin' new.

As for DDR. . . I'm not particularly interested. Heck, my grandmother plays DDR.

Bill AurionJanuary 07, 2005

What's amusing about Mr. Aurion's post is that he doesn't argue the point, instead dismisses it as "whining".

I've already gone on forever in multiple topics my opinion on Ninty's "overuse of their franchise characters" and I didn't feel like repeating myself...If you want me to argue it again here it is in summary...Making a completely new franchise with new characters is a good way to alienate most gamers from your product...You will catch the eyes of the hardcore fanbase, but not the casual crew...At least with the usual franchise characters the product will be noticed and there will be casual gamers that will purchase the game with a character familiar to them...Keeping the same characters in a fantastic game doesn't deter from the fun of the game, does it? Or do you really think the same game with different characters would be so much better? As others have already stated, using Ninty's flagship mascot is the perfect way to get casuals and hardcore gamers alike to look at a particular game, first or third party...END...Happy now?

RABicleJanuary 07, 2005

Bill this isn't a unique twist, it's a shameless cross marketing stunt that has sucked us in. I mean come on, it's still DDR, it's still a game that's only cool witha bunch of mates stuffing about at the arcades and someone else is on the Daytona machine. In Japan, no one likes dancing and beat games anymore, the only reason these games are popular here is because we don't know better and our arcades are too poor to replace the machines because ultimately, no one actually takes DDR or any arcade game seriously.

I thought dancing by yourself in your living room couldn't get any worse, but now Konami and Nintendo have shown me that I can do it with Mario... it's shameless, lame and most of all; weak. It's something only fit for a drunken activity with a girl you'ld rather be banging.

MarioJanuary 07, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: Procession
What's amusing about Mr. Aurion's post is that he doesn't argue the point, instead dismisses it as "whining".

Let's look at how many games Mario has appeared in, in this generation...

Mario Power Tennis
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Super Mario Sunshine
NBA Street Vol. 3
Mario Kart: Double Dash
DDR w/ Mario
Mario Baseball
Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour
Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
Mario Party 4
Mario Party 5
Mario Party 6

12 GAMES!!! That doesn't even include indirect spin-offs, like Luigi's Mansion and Wario World, and cameos in games such Animal Crossing. Think how much larger that figure gets when you include DS and GBA titles.

I'm a little Marioed out, and wouldn't be surprised if the public is too. I'd rather see new franchises than more games starring Mario, and the gravy train can't roll on forever.

Bloodworth: As a Nintendo fan, it doesn't hold any extra appeal for me. DDR is DDR, as far as I'm concerned, and the same game I played in the arcades 6 years, with Mario or without him.

By the way, what happened to kicking the much-lamented "younger audience orientated" image?

Ugh. There is nothing wrong with Nintendo having a "younger audience orientated" image. That's what sold 150 million Gameboys.

How much do you think a game called Lenny Power Tennis or George Party would sell? Not enough for them to be up to George Party 6, that's for sure.

There's nothing wrong with Mario appearing in all those completely different games, Mario is what you get when you buy a Nintendo console, personally, the appearance of Mario in anything brings a smile to my face, which ends up enhancing the experience I would have as opposed to playing a Mario-less game.

As for DDR, I own a DDR game for PS2, and it's lots of fun, but something I thought was lacking was the song selection and... I dunno, a main theme or, something interesting? Mario DDR could fix both of these problems by having awesome Nitnendo music and adding the possibilities and charm of the Mario universe.

Also, if it wasn't for Mario, we wouldn't even have a DDR game on the GC. DDR is coming to GC because Mario will be in it.

SaviorJanuary 07, 2005

Making a completely new franchise with new characters is a good way to alienate most gamers from your product...

No its whats helping Sony and Microsoft. It works

Bill AurionJanuary 07, 2005

The last I saw, MS never had a product before the Xbox, thus nulling itself from my scenario, and also the last I saw every single one of Sony's games the past few years have been sequels... face-icon-small-thumbsup.gif

MarioJanuary 07, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: Savior
Making a completely new franchise with new characters is a good way to alienate most gamers from your product...

No its whats helping Sony and Microsoft. It works

Grand Theft Auto, Halo 2 and Madden online are what's helping Sony and Microsoft.

SaviorJanuary 07, 2005

Quote

Grand Theft Auto, Halo 2 and Madden online are what's helping Sony and Microsoft.


Its not that easy. If it were. Nintendo could have GTA already (Its on the GBA), They have their own FPS/A in Metroid Prime and EA provides the Servers for Madden Online, why not promote it like they did Phantasy Star Online? Its more than that.

Quote

I saw every single one of Sony's games the past few years have been sequels


Yeah, was there a Jak, Ratchet and Clank, Socom, God of War, Dark Cloud, Sly Cooper, ICO, on the PS1?

MarioJanuary 07, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: Savior
Quote

Grand Theft Auto, Halo 2 and Madden online are what's helping Sony and Microsoft.


Its not that easy. If it were. Nintendo could have GTA already (Its on the GBA), They have their own FPS/A in Metroid Prime and EA provides the Servers for Madden Online, why not promote it like they did Phantasy Star Online? Its more than that.


What?
Quote

Quote

I saw every single one of Sony's games the past few years have been sequels


Yeah, was there a Jak, Ratchet and Clank, Socom, God of War, Dark Cloud, Sly Cooper, ICO, on the PS1?

Was there a Viewtiful Joe, Pikmin, Billy Hatcher, Super Monkey Ball, Animal Crossing, Eternal Darkness on the N64? And do you understand the concept of "past few years"?

Sony wanted a platformer, they had nobody to shove in there, so they "created" Jak, now he's in Jak & Daxter, Jak 2, Jak 3 and Jak Racing. The arguments for the point you're trying to make are irrelevant, because you have no point.

SaviorJanuary 07, 2005

Quote

What?


If Nintendo had those three things would they sell as well as Sony does?

Quote

Was there a Viewtiful Joe, Pikmin, Billy Hatcher, Super Monkey Ball, Animal Crossing, Eternal Darkness on the N64? And do you understand the concept of "past few years"?


Actually there was an Animal Crossing on the N64. But there wasnt a Pikmin or an Eternal Darkness.

My point is certainly a valid one. Sony isnt living off its PS1 Franchises. They made new ones. If Nintendo actually created New Stuff it wouldnt "attract only hardcore" like Bill suggests. It would attract more people.

Bill AurionJanuary 07, 2005

Instead Sony lives off of really generic new, "hardcore" franchises and whores them to death...(Jak and Ratchet need three games each in one gen? I think NOT)...I've said all my share on this topic...

Ian SaneJanuary 07, 2005

When I saw this headline I thought "hey cool! DDR on the Cube!" A lot of people thought "ANOTHER Mario game? Screw this." Well that's what I thought when I first found out about Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour, Mario Party 5, Mario Party 6, Mario Power Tennis, Mario Pinball Land, Super Mario 64 DS and NBA Street V3. While I think having a DDR game on the Cube is great and this a rare scenario where I really think Mario's inclusion is a good idea and a good fit I agree that Mario is overexposed and Nintendo is quite rapidly killing his selling power.

Super Mario Sunshine was supposed to be the Cube's saviour. After the rocky start it was supposed to be this big system seller that saved the Cube from becoming the N64 2. Well it didn't and debatable game quality aside the reason it didn't is because the general public didn't regard it as anything special. It WAS something special. It was the first "real" Mario game in six years. But the general public didn't notice this significance because to the average Joe looking over EB's game selection there have been several Mario games released each year since 1996. Super Mario Sunshine was "just another Mario game" to the general public.

Now you can argue that Nintendo always changes things up with their franchise games which for the most part is true but nobody but hardcore fans notice that. A lot of people see Nintendo as endless rehashers. That is an image that I feel is worse than their dreaded "k!ddy" image. And Nintendo just reenforces this image by releasing more Mario, more Zelda, more Pokemon, and more Metroid. Bill said that there's a huge risk with making a brand new game. That's true but there's an even bigger risk with releasing endless sequels and spin-offs when they're fighting a "rehasher" image. Plus they're training the newer members of their fanbase to only accept franchise games, which is a problem with third party sales on the Cube and truly will prevent any new franchises from selling.

And lately Nintendo has gotten sequel-happy to the point that we, the hardcore fans, are losing interest. I'm tired of Mario. I realistically am not going to buy anymore non-platformer Mario titles if things continue as is and others in this thread agree with me. This gen Nintendo has had this attitude that it's all about their franchise titles. It shows in their lineup and they've talked about it in speaches. That's NOT what Nintendo is about. Nintendo built up their fanbase and their legacy by being an innovative developer that pushed game design in new directions, made high quality games, and made sequels that meant something and were essential. They've lost sight of that now. Now they're like Capcom. It's all "push the familiar product and sell, sell, sell". Sure they still make good stuff but they've started to release a few unessential rehash sequels now. New entries in franchises are coming out a quicker pace and with less new ideas in them. Ten years I felt I had to play every game Nintendo made. I don't feel that now. I feel I can get away with playing about half of them. If you count the GBA ports then even less than that.

And all these franchise games are killing their franchises. Mario doesn't sell systems anymore. I want a new Mario game for the Revolution launch but that's only because I think it would be a good addition. I don't think, unless Nintendo lays off Mario for a while, that he would sell systems. In fact I think if Mario is continued to be milked that his precense will be negative. That people will just think "Oh more Mario. The Revolution is just going to be more the same."

Nintendo is irrelevant to the average gamer. They have to change or at least appear as if they've changed or they're going to be killed off. That means they have to make more new franchises and they have to lay off the spinoffs and sequels. Relying on franchises is a stupid idea because that was the plan with the Cube and the Cube is a failure.

SgtShiversBenJanuary 07, 2005

The thing is Savior, is that Sony kills off it's franchises way to quickly. It had Crash Bandicoot for a while and look what happened there. They also had Spyro and that went down the toilet. Same with Tomb Raider, Gex (which was ported to 64) and countless others, but all of those this generation have simply just evaporated from the limelight. Same thing is probably going to happen next generation. We'll get more platformers that have three or four sequels on ONE damn console (I've already talked about this in the Thinking Big? forum). Don't you notice how the one's that actually work are the franchises that don't have three or four sequels on one, but use spinoffs to show that they're still very much alive. Mario is one, Sonic is one, the Gran Turismo's (with prologue and all that), and of course the Blank vs. Blanks. Those work because people don't get tired of doing something else with the characters. Instead they get board of doing the same thing over and over again. The Jaks are the same, the Ratchets are the same and the Halo's are the same. If they make Halo 4 (which is inevitable) they better change up the gameplay instead of using 1st person. Mario changes with each generation in which new technology is provided. He's come a long way from destroying King Koopa to siding with him to get Peach's voice back. These things do matter in which the player isn't forced to do the same things over and over again.
Nintendo does create new stuff, it just uses the same characters to introduce the player into the mix. Mario Party brought board games to the cyber world. Mario Kart brought a game where racing is all about destroying your opponent with projectiles. Mario RPG brought RPGs to the casual people. Smash Bros. brought four playing fighting to best. Believe it or not, even Dead of Alive uses its formula in some instances.
All in all I'm just saying that using a franchise is a sure way to test the waters of doing something creative while still being in the general area that people will use it. Like Mario said, a game like "Master Chief's Crazy Capers" wouldn't work. Mario's Crazy Capers, although with a wierd name, would probably introduce many people to what a game like Crazy Capers could be. All I am saying is give up the "WE WANT NEW FRANCHISES" thing a rest. Then you'll get all pissed off when they don't and demand a PROPER MARIO GAME, when Sunshine was as good as one as any. I haven't seen that level of platforming since the Primes. Before that, it'd have to be............back in the 64 days.

MarioJanuary 07, 2005

My personal opinion on why Super Mario Sunshine wasn't as well received as Super Mario 64 isn't because of Mario's overexposure but because the game wasn't as good, there was nothing revolutionary about it, and most of all, it was too complex. Though I do agree Mario is overexposed, Miyamoto said himself in an interview that people used to say "ah!" when a new title featuring Mario was released, and now they just say "oh". What's his solution to that? One way I would suggest is to make Super Mario 128 the BEST damn game on the planet, a game EVERYONE must play, and a game that everyone CAN play, but that doesn't fix the core problem of overexposure, though what can? If Nintendo stop releasing any games with Mario in them their profits will take a large nosedive and the lineup would feel very empty. What do you believe is the solution Ian?

ProcessionJanuary 07, 2005

At the moment Nintendo is catering for Nintendo fans, and that is no way to grow marketshare. Sure, you'll sell a few more copies to those who already own your console, but you won't expand your install base. People who like Mario enough to buy a game because he's in it own a Nintendo console already. Frankly, that's all there is to it as far as I'm concerned. Nintendo can either continue with their niche in the market (I'm talking GC here) or try an capture back some of the ground they've lost; they seem to have chose the former, rather than the latter.

Say what you will about Sony, but they have been the innovators this generation. Eyetoy and Singstar have been MASSIVE hits for them, especially in PAL territories. They have used brand new control mechanisms, didn't rely on an already established franchise, and have been, once again, huge hits. Why? Because they extend past the usual gamer. The sort of thing Nintendo has been talking about, but so far hasn't really pulled off. Mario isn't going to make new gamers, but that sort of thing is, and it's disappointing to see Nintendo be following, rather than leading in this case (and not to mention following in another Mario spin-off). Sony has captured new gamers; Nintendo hasn't (at least not en masse).

By the way, the worst example we've seen of this existing franchise mentality, when Miyamoto demanded Dinosaur Planet become Star Fox Adventures; I doubt it sold many (if any) Gamecubes, and made a bit of a mess in an otherwise solid game.

CaillanJanuary 07, 2005

It honsestly seems to me that NCL is just reading sales figures and basing their decisions on those. Releasing all of the NES classics as seperate retail products may have made them sell well, but more than that it's really pissed people off. It's the same with conectivity compared to live: one has been a financial success, the other a complete marketing one.

I have yet to play the new Mario Tennis, I'm not even sure if I'll ever get a chance to, but I know damn well that I'm not going to be playing a GC Golden Sun anytime soon.

Infernal MonkeyJanuary 07, 2005

It's DDR on GameCube. It's a Mario game. It might have some really awesome HOT SEX Nintendo remixes. This game will rawk. The end.

CHENJanuary 08, 2005

Savior and Procession like their PS2's. But I have to disagree with you here with Sony being the innovators this generation. Microsoft with its Live application or Nintendo with its DS would fair a better chance.

- GTA were never really popular until the third installment. And the 3rd boosted the PS2's popularity. Then came Vice City and San Andreas. You know the rest.
- Metroid can never be a hit such as Halo 2 because of what it is.
- ICO bombed commercially even though it got praised by the media.
- The others you've mentioned weren't innovative at all.
- Eyetoy? more liek gimmick m i rite? It isn't a massive hit in the States as you say it is.
- Releasing new franchises or changing an existing formula is risky. Ask EA.
- Sony is getting cocky. They didn't want to give licenses to 2D titles for example. It looks similar to the NES period in that regard. And they did a piss poor job with their online application. I'm glad Nintendo didn't do it without a solid online plan.
- Sony capturing the public? Believe me, the masses will flock to another market leader if the Playstation brand somehow loses its throne.

I do have to admit Sony made video gaming more accessible. But it also garnered some problems that could be its downfall. I'm not going to explain that, but if history has taught us, Sony can't keep this forever. The industry has changed and if big corporations such as EA will continue to buy out, there might be nothing left if they don't change their business plans. Like you say, gamers are getting sick of sequels with gameplay barely changed. And that's what most companies do to secure their turnouts and avoid risks. Look at EA Sports. How it's still successful boggles my mind. Eventually, people will get tired of it. What does DDR and Mario have to do with it? Nothing. What does Nintendo have to do with it? I'll let you think about that.

joshnickersonJanuary 08, 2005

I look forward to the day when Nintendo can announce a game and is not automatically greeted with a wall of whining fanboys crying that Nintendo is doomed.

SgtShiversBenJanuary 08, 2005

I have a question...is this website going to keep going or is it going to change names when the new Nintendo comes out?

Ian SaneJanuary 08, 2005

"If Nintendo stop releasing any games with Mario in them their profits will take a large nosedive and the lineup would feel very empty. What do you believe is the solution Ian?"

Well it's not like the lineup would be empty. Cutting back on Mario doesn't mean cutting back on games period. I think the solution is to enforce limits on how many games are released on each system for each franchise. For nearly all of them I would say only one per system. With Zelda have two since that's how they've done it so far and limit Mario to platformer, Mario Kart, Mario RPG, and maybe one other title. Plus developers working with Nintendo should be encouraged to release new things. So Camelot doesn't work on another Mario game, and aside from one new Metroid Prime Retro Studios works on new stuff. The sequels should be limited to the company that traditionally works on it. So Mario is EAD and EAD only. And finally if there's no creative reason to make a sequel don't make it. There's no need for a new Mario Party so just ditch it.

In regards to how to sell these new franchises well they need good marketing. Halo is brand new yet it sold Xboxes. Somehow MS managed to get people interested in a brand new franchise. So it's perfectly doable. Not everything will take off but there's nothing wrong with releasing a few niche titles that don't bring mainstream success. That happens and if a developer is constantly afraid to release a commercial flop they become uncreative and turn into EA. Plus there are genres Nintendo doesn't really have any exclusive franchise for that do to the popularity of the genre could easily become a hit. Nintendo doesn't currently have a popular traditional FPS right now for example. It's easy to get people interested in something like that.

As for what to do with Mario well I say they should just stop making Mario games until the Revolution launch. On the SNES there were no Mario titles I can think of released in 1994 (except maybe some educational game) and that created more demand for Mario. Fans kept busy with stuff like Donkey Kong Country and Mortal Kombat II and then Mario returned with Yoshi's Island. But that was only Baby Mario so the traditional adult Mario didn't return until 1996. Super Mario 64 not only had the appeal of being an unbelievably innovative game but it also was viewed as a return for Mario after being out of the spotlight for a bit. So if Mario is not used for a little while then his "return" on the Revolution will be significant and people will notice that this is the first Mario platformer in a few years.

DeguelloJeff Shirley, Staff AlumnusJanuary 08, 2005

"Super Mario 64 not only had the appeal of being an unbelievably innovative game but it also was viewed as a return for Mario after being out of the spotlight for a bit."

Except that pesky Super Mario RPG...

SaviorJanuary 08, 2005

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Relying on franchises is a stupid idea because that was the plan with the Cube and the Cube is a failure.


Exactly. Nintendo promises a revolution. I hope that Revolution also means Alot more new franchises. No more Mario Parties.


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The thing is Savior, is that Sony kills off it's franchises way to quickly.


No they dont. They make new franchises, to use their new technology. Sony lost the Crash Bandicoot liscence to Vivendi, so Naughty Dog created a brand new franchise in Jak and Daxter. Not a great plataformer but good enough to sell millions. They didnt "kill" their franchises, they moved them aside. Wipeout was one of the PS1s most popular games and the PS2 sequel was ignored by Sony because they wanted new stuff. Twisted Metal, Jet Moto, Cool Boarders all famous franchises and Sony simply decided to make new stuff. Nintendo could be served well to do the same. Would you have prefered Pikmin be called Mario-min and you controled millions of Mario? Nope.

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WE WANT NEW FRANCHISES" thing a rest. Then you'll get all pissed off when they don't and demand a PROPER MARIO GAME, when Sunshine was as good as one as any. I haven't seen that level of platforming since the Primes. Before that, it'd have to be............back in the 64 days.


The 64 had more new franchises in its lifetime than the GCN has had in three years. (This is do alot thanks to Rare,) The N64 didnt have third party support so they needed to make new stuff to plug holes. Now Nintendo plugs holes with old franchises not new ones.

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If Nintendo stop releasing any games with Mario in them their profits will take a large nosedive and the lineup would feel very empty.


Mario isnt even Nintendos main guy anymore. Link is. Making Less Mario games would make the Mario games you do make more special.


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It honsestly seems to me that NCL is just reading sales figures and basing their decisions on those.


Very True. The Success of Soul Calibur 2 with Link will convince Nintendo to possibly do the same more often....

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Savior and Procession like their PS2's. But ...But I have to disagree with you here with Sony being the innovators this generation.


Well the PS2 is alot more like the Super NES than the Gamecube is. Thats kind of why i like it. I like RPGS. Theres more RPGS on the PS2. I like Fighgting Games. Theres no Virtua Fighters or Tekken on the Gamecube. So of course i like my PS2. Id rather have my RPGs and Fighting Games on a Nintendo console, like the SNES did.

Oh and I never said Sony was more innovative. I just said they created more New Franchises in the PS2 generation than Nintendo has. They werent hurt. So If Nintendo made New Stuff It wouldnt hurt them either. Theres already proof that New Stuff sells

Hostile CreationJanuary 08, 2005

What new stuff? You mean Ico, a good game of which there was only one (which sold poorly), or Jak and Dexter, which they've made two sequels of in the past few years?
I don't mind people wanting Nintendo to diversify, but don't use Sony as a basis for comparison. Even if Jak and Dexter is a new franchise, it is far, far away from anything like innovative.

SaviorJanuary 08, 2005

The Majority of the PS2 lineup is new franchises. They arent really living off PS1 Franchises.

MarioJanuary 08, 2005

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Mario isnt even Nintendos main guy anymore. Link is.

Where did you pull that from?

And if they're going to cut back on games with Mario in them , they better NOT stop releasing Mario Tennis & Mario Golf, because I freaking love those games. I love Mario Party too. Hell, I love every game that Mario's starred in, because they're good games. Where am I going with this? To the fridge? I dunno.

How can people say the public is all Mario'd out and then say that the only people who buy Mario games are Nintendo fans?

SaviorJanuary 08, 2005

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Where did you pull that from?


Didnt Wind Waker outsell Super Mario Sunshine ?

MarioJanuary 08, 2005

No.

Hostile CreationJanuary 08, 2005

Is that so? Maybe PS1 franchises sucked? Or maybe most of the RPGs on PS2 are continuations of older RPGs. I forget which.

Anyway, Sony makes hardly any games for its own console, and the few that they do tend to be followed by a multitude of sequels, even if those franchises were created this generation.

Bill AurionJanuary 08, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: Savior
The Majority of the PS2 lineup is new franchises. They arent really living off PS1 Franchises.

PS1 franchises were separated into 2 categories

1) They were so bad they just died (As SgtShivers already said, Gex, Tomb Raider, etc...)
or
2) They ARE existing today: Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo, Twisted Metal...Are you really saying Sony doesn't rely on these?

Ian SaneJanuary 08, 2005

"They ARE existing today: Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo, Twisted Metal...Are you really saying Sony doesn't rely on these?"

Well they don't really rely on Twisted Metal. face-icon-small-wink.gif

I don't think Sony is the ideal company to point out as an example of making new stuff. I think they have made some new franchises with the PS2 but they don't rely on first party stuff like Nintendo does. And even though they create something new they tend to beat it into the ground pretty fast. Plus the big killer apps for both the PS1 and PS2 are not first party titles.

I think MS is better example since they have had to rely on first and second party titles more and being a brand new console maker they really had to create new franchises to define the Xbox. They made Halo which is easily one of the most successful games of this generation and that was brand new. Well it didn't play all that new but it had a new world and new characters. The general public thought it was new and that's really what we're talking about. The persception of newness was there. MS also managed to promote a brand new third party franchise, Splinter Cell, in such a way that it became an Xbox killer app and "beat" Metroid Prime. That's pretty impressive considering that Splinter Cell wasn't even an exclusive title. MS managed a fanbase for an entirely new product really quickly. They got their fans to get excited about pretty average games like Bloodwake or Brute Force. The Xbox is the ideal model for pushing new franchises because it had to start from scratch and in America is on pace to beat the franchise heavy Gamecube.

MarioJanuary 08, 2005

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Well they don't really rely on Twisted Metal.

Twisted Metal Black on PS2 has sold over one million copies. face-icon-small-tongue.gif

CaillanJanuary 08, 2005

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I think MS is better example since they have had to rely on first and second party titles more and being a brand new console maker they really had to create new franchises to define the Xbox.


Microsoft isn't a particuarly good example either. As you said, they use advertising to push any game that comes their way, regardless of quality. This has little in common with creating original franchises. When Windows was newly released, it wasn't very popular either, but MS bribed the media until people thought it was. It didn't make consumers buy the OS but it made them aware of it, and developers supported it because exposure to the brand was everywhere.

Mario himself has become unmarketable to anyone but fanboys, and it's alienating other gamers. If Nintendo keep on whoring out Mario like this their userbase will only shrink because of it, even if their short-term profits increase.

KDR_11kJanuary 08, 2005

Forgot Grand Theft Auto on that list.

Ian: Some would argue that Halo was based on the Marathon franchise. Most of them would say Halo was to Marathon as FFVII was to Final Fantasy... But yeah, I get your idea.

All I have to say is: The Mario Party is a bunch of mushroom-munching jerks who will be the first on the wall when the revolution comes. Sorry, had to do it face-icon-small-tongue.gif.

couchmonkeyJanuary 10, 2005

Yeah, I was being melodramatic back on Friday, but I'm making a serious point: a year ago, I'd consider buying anything and everything with Mario in it. Now I still want real Mario games, but my interest in the spin-offs is pretty much gone.

I'm sure Nintendo's goal was to make Dance Dance Revolution and NBA Street something special to Nintendo fanboys like us. But between Mario Party 7, NBA Street v3, Mario Baseball and Mario: DDR, what game are you going to buy? Instead of making these games special, I feel Nintendo has made Mario less special.

Casual gamers and Sony/MS fans won't care about any of these announcements in the least. Nintendo is not impressing any potential new GameCube owners.

Nintendo fanboys will pick up some of these games, but very few of us will buy all of them, and some of us are starting to lose interest in Mario in general.

I do think this could be a fun game, and I am glad to see Nintendo cooperating with third party developers; I'm also afraid the sales results will be less impressive than the third parties hope, and if Nintendo continues down the path of selling Mario to everyone that wants him, I don't think history will view it as a smart decision.

KDR_11kJanuary 11, 2005

Point of the deal is: "So, I can get NBAStreet3 for the PS2 or for the Gamecube and have Mario and folks as free characters... Hm, same price...". The more people buy the GC version instead of the other versions the better it looks for Nintendo and if N would be willing to whore out their icons to other devs as well these devs would see profit in GC development.

BloodworthDaniel Bloodworth, Staff AlumnusJanuary 11, 2005

My take on all of this is that it's cool having the Mario characters selectable in a bunch of different games (like NBA Street), but having them as the focus of this constant string of games (Mario Tennis, Mario Party, Paper Mario, etc.) is tiring no matter how good the games are themselves. Even if it's just an artistic setting, Nintendo is relying far too much on what they did in the past and are in desperate need of new franchises if they're ever going to stand out with a public that just sees Mario and thinks "been there, done that".

Shift KeyJanuary 11, 2005

I hope they throw in the theme from the Super Mario Bros TV show just so I can "Do the Mario" and look like a total fool!

Hostile CreationJanuary 12, 2005

Oh damn, if they do that I might have to buy it.

SgtShiversBenJanuary 12, 2005

I think the hardest one would have to be the boss song from Super Mario 2. That would be INTENSE like a cow eating a wolf. That, or the Isle Del Fino song. Just hearing that come out on SMDS is great.

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