"It is true that the 3D video game gave a boost to our industry but at the same time, people were beginning to drift away from playing games due to the complexity," Nintendo president Satoru Iwata told reporters.

"In other words, the old formula for success -- the combination of high-specification game consoles and advanced graphics -- is no longer working."


I love this quote. I think it is partially inaccurate, but I love the fact that someone is standing up for the traditional games.

I guess I am in the minority, at least in America, but I hate the trend that games have taken.

Long involved stories that take away from actually playing the game, and are still not good enough to merit a movie or book based on the material.

Games are becoming too dark and gritty. Everything has to have an edge to it. Blood, violence, language. These do not help gameplay, but instead are just there to mask the imperfections of the game.

3D scrolling nonlinear levels. This is the big thing right now. Lets make a world where you can do anything and just let them play. NO THANK YOU. I want a game where I know my objectives, and I can rather easily figure out where to go and how to get there. I don't mind multiple ways of doing something, I just want to know what I am supposed to be doing, and having the game give me enough information to accomplish the goal.

I think the quote is right on. In America this trends have been helping to popularize games, but they aren't popularizing them as an artform or a legit media. They are just appealing to a hip lower common denominator. Its like rated R movies that are rated R not because they need to be, but because they think that extra breast shot will get them more viewers.

Of course what do I know. I am the minority. I still choose Nintendo over any other product. I only have the funds to buy a few choice games a year, and I still think cartoons and color are cool.

I'll agree with Spak-Spang in that I too don't like the direction gaming has gone in America. But I didn't think Nintendo is trying to get us back into the era of shmups and 2D side scrollers. To me it sounds like Nintendo is doing the exact opposite. They're branching off from traditional game design to do something different.

This scares me. I'm not scared of the Revolution being underpowered. I'm scared of the Rev being functionally useless for traditional game design. I'm scared of having to use a power glove or something to control the game. Nintendo often talks about targeting new types of gamers or more specifically non-gamers. And they usually point to stuff like Donkey Konga or Mario Party 6 as examples. I think those are fun in little spurts but I don't want to just have games like that. They have no meat. They're fun for parties but ultimately their appeal is based on novelty. Once the "wow I'm using a mic to play the game" high is off you're bored. Nintendo is talking about targeting the most casual of gamers imaginable. These aren't idiots who play nothing but Madden and Counter Strike. These are the people who play nothing but online flash games.

I'm a hardcore gamer. I'm not interested in gimmick games that target non-gamers. If Nintendo targets those people then they're no longer making games for me and that means that NO ONE is making games for me anymore. That sucks and that's what I'm worried about. I don't care about the hardcare capabilities that much. What I really need to see is the controller. That's what will tell me if Nintendo is still interested in making games I'm interested in.

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
What I really need to see is the controller. That's what will tell me if Nintendo is still interested in making games I'm interested in.

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
What I really need to see is the controller. That's what will tell me if Nintendo is still interested in making games I'm interested in.

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I like what Nintendo is doing. It just makes things feel different, not better, but just different.

Don't worry, Ian, Iwata was only referring to the PSP vs. DS debate when referring to "new systems." Unfortunately, the quote was missing the final sentence in PGC's news article.The entire quote was:

"It is true that the 3D video game gave a boost to our industry but at the same time, people were beginning to drift away from playing games due to the complexity," Nintendo president Satoru Iwata told reporters.

"In other words, the old formula for success -- the combination of high-specification game consoles and advanced graphics -- is no longer working.

"We now need to create a new offer for our customers to set a new course for the industry and the launch of the Nintendo DS is our answer to such a challenge," Iwata said.

Nintendo was the first company that after the down fall of the video game industry in the late 70s and 80s in the U.S., revived the video game industry, especially in the U.S. Nintendo provided innovation to the shooter games of the hey-day they included narratives to video games. Nintendo knows that since the video games for most are important to their economy that their going to worry about games that will boost it's economy and not neccessary worry about the U.S. Japan is more likely to invovate games better than say the U.S. because no one has taken the initiative besides Microsoft and even then they are reproducing games that interest predominatly shooters-types. Microsoft is become more like a movie production company producting a certain type of genre game. and even with the recent annoncement by Nintendo entering the animation industry really shows that Nintendo knows exactly what they are doing or at least thinking about the problems are becoming.

Nintendo has always been more interested in the story of video games. And since video games provide a way to tell a story then you always have to challenge yourself to want to develop the way of telling the story. shooter games told one simple story, nintendo provided a longer narrative to games later on....

looking at cinema is a primary example about how narratives have developed. From black-and-white-silent-peep shows to colored-sound-linear novelist narratives. Nintendo is looking to make a video gaming revolution that is likely not to catch on readily in the U.S. at first, but formost in Japan.

It's also very interesting looking at the DS and it's dual screens, it's innovation at it's primative level, but it's doing something more than reproducing the same kind of games that have caught on (action, cough cough) and adding further interactivity into it.

I think a multiple screen video game could be fun, just like peep shows were more preoccupied with a couple of minutes of single use to the cinema of now that is more inclusive. Nintendo want more interaction between actual people, which is also a dissapointment because online video games are taking off; although i don't know if they are as popular in Japan......

How about keeping the same controller just so we don't have to buy a new set of 4 every generation.

There's no shame to saying, hey we have a good design here, maybe we should keep it for a little longer.

How about this for the next generation controler... An updated Wavebird... perhaps with rumble support and a switch to enable disable it. Basic functions are backwards compatable with the GC and pack one in with the new system.

I agree that all this talk about "the formula" being different for Nintendo is a bit of a Red Herring. I really think Nintendo is going to surprise everyone with the Revolution. Just because it promisses to be something different, doesn't mean it won't be powerful and able to run traditional games as well.

I don't think anyon expected the DS to be the success it is turning out to be, and I have a feeling Revolution will be the same....

"How about keeping the same controller just so we don't have to buy a new set of 4 every generation. There's no shame to saying, hey we have a good design here, maybe we should keep it for a little longer."

But they don't have a good design. Well not a universally useable one anyway. Sony has kept the same controller design which is nice for people not wanting to buy new controllers but it sucks because the original design needs refinement. It's the same way with Nintendo. I loved the SNES and N64 controllers but I'm glad they've gone beyond that. Controllers can always be refined and perfected and updating it with every console makes sense.

Plus aside from refinement there's still room for innovation. What if they included a motion sensor like the one used in Kirby's Tilt 'n' Tumble built right into the controller? This is on top of providing a standard flexible controller design. Suddenly, much like with the DS, the controller options open up without sacrificing classic game design. I think the DS should have had an analog stick but aside from that its greatest feature is its flexibility. Developers can still make traditional portable games like they could on the GBA but now they can also use the touchscreen and the mic. The flexibility gives the DS an edge.

I'm afraid Nintendo might do something too weird with the Rev but there is also the possibility of having incredible flexibility. Imagine if the controller had two analog sticks, a SNES sized d-pad, six digital face buttons, two analog triggers like the Cube, two digital triggers placed in front like the Cube Z button (but built more ergonomically), a start (& maybe select) button, built-in motion sensor, built-in rumble, standard wireless control with optional cords, and an slot for expansion like the N64 controller. Plus have the system come with a mouse, a keyboard, built-in broadband adapter, wireless connectivity with the DS, some sort of internal rewritable storage like a hard drive and Gamecube backwards compatibility with the Rev controllers using the same controller ports as the Cube and the same memory card slots.

That would provide tons of flexibility and potential gameplay innovation. Now realistically that could drive the console price up a little bit but virtually any genre including traditional PC genres like RTS could work. That's what I ideally would want to see Nintendo do with the Revolution. There's room to move in a new direction without disregarding what's already there.

All of the statements being made about contemporary games missing the mark are correct, but please also consider the source of the statement and the full context in which it is being made.

The DS is ultimately going up against the PSP, as well as other at least one other handheld, and a bunch of phones/PDAs that want to get in on the mobile gaming action.

Put yourself in Iwata's shoes. It's your job to make sure your statements put your product and company in the most positive light possible.

I used to work for Sega back in the SNES vs. Genesis days and I'm very aware of the press release battles that used to go on between the two companies. Nintendo is very good at the whole PR thing, believe me.

Do you guys remember the Virtual Boy? Nintendo had plenty of positive things to say about that device because they had no choice.

How about the dim screen on the GBA? If corporate officers admit to the flaw, then sales would be less spectacular. Instead, their job was to deflect those kinds of questions and make statements about how the product has a color screen in the first place and there's nothing out there like it anywhere.

I'm not saying the DS is flawed. I just think that you may be reading too deeply into Iwata's comments.

Ian, I don't think Nintendo is so focused on the casual gamer that they're going to ignore their fans, which are the roots of the great Nintendo tree. Or the leaves, technically. But they're important, whatever part they are. Or we are, rather. Dammit.

I have no doubt that Nintendo will deviate so far from the formula that you'll be disappointed. I'm not going to speculate, though. I'll keep myself busy with what I got and wait for something to be said.

I do not believe that we need to worry about it; Nintendo won't deliver anything truely original with the Revolution. They always talk big about change, but they never deliver anything big. DS connectivity perhaps?

Dual cartridge system. What's the point? I don't know.

Ian Sane: Thanks for agreeing with me on some of the stuff.

I actually agree with you. I am very afraid and also excited what might be the controller for the next system. I of course use the term controller loosely.

I personally do not have a problem with the Gamecube controller, yet I completely understand the complaints it is getting. I do believe that the Gamecube controller has done several things better than the other controllers.

1) Better Analog control on its Analog stick.
2) Much better D-PAD then the other systems, even though it is too small.
3) Even with an ackward Button configuration, you can navigate the controller much easier than the other systems.

When I think about Revolution. I am not afraid of it being underpowered. For one the companies that have seen unfinalized specs say it is very very similar to the XBOX 2. Pretty much anything that is a leap in graphics from this generation will be fine with me.

So what will make it a "Revolution?" It comes to what Ian Sane says: the controller. The only thing you can truly innovate with a game system is the means you interact with the game.

The DS shows that Nintendo is trying to create new means of interacting with your games.

The 3 most likely examples of new controllers would be:

1)A Controller with more responsive and versitle analog buttons. I don't know how likely this is, or how functional it would be for games. PS2 has this, but you barely use it, and I never actually was able to get the feel for it right.

2)All in one controllers. I can see Nintendo working on a Controller that is wireless and contains, Microphone, rumble pack, along with the traditional buttons and control sticks. This is the least revolutionary and would pretty much a letdown.

3)The 3rd idea I thought of is the most innovative and the most scary. Imagine a system with an Analog Stick on one side, and then a touch screen system on the other. The touch Screen is used by developers to design whatever button layout they need for each game. This obviously has some advantages but also has some huge problems.

4)Something Other I can't even think about.

"The 3rd idea I thought of is the most innovative and the most scary. Imagine a system with an Analog Stick on one side, and then a touch screen system on the other. The touch Screen is used by developers to design whatever button layout they need for each game."

A lot of people thought up this scenario when we were speculating about the DS. The problem with that setup is there's no feel to a touchscreen. It's all flat so you can't feel where the buttons are.

And the problem with all analog buttons is that sometimes you want the quick response of digital button. I was playing Total Carnage on Midway Arcade Treasures 2 and there was a bonus game where I had to rapidly tap the bomb button. But the bomb button was assigned to the L&R buttons (which makes sense in theory since the game uses the twin joysticks) and I completely failed the bonus game because it's impossible to tap those buttons fast enough. That's what gave me the idea of having both digital and analog triggers because sometimes you want one or the other.

I will agree that the Cube d-pad is the best of the three but that's not saying much. The PS2 d-pad for example is the worst design for a d-pad I've ever seen. A split d-pad? Did the person who invented that ever play any games in their life before?

As for things I like about the Cube controller I love the analog stick and the ergonomics of the controller are amazing.

I think Nintendo actually said that it's not using touchscreen for the Revolution. I think whatever those crazy guys come up with, it will either be really crazy or something surprisingly Unsurprising. I'm hoping for really crazy.
Actually, I'd like to see the next system continue to play traditional games. Perhaps keeping the Cube controllers at the same time as introducing the brand-new input device would be good. Whatever happens, I'm really looking forward to it! If the system won't play traditional games, though, you may see me picking up an Xbox 2 or a PS3 as well as the Revolution.
Edit: As for the DS, it's good to see it doing so well, but I'll be very interested to see PSP sales next week. Personally, I think it's going to do very well. If PSP fails, I think it will be in the long term when word of mouth spreads about battery life, load times, and any other issues Sony has failed to mention.

Ian Sane: We think alike about the controller that is all inclusive. Its a great idea. I forgot to put motion senors in there.

I figured a solution to analog buttons, that I think would work better. I would like to see that Click feature used with the L/R buttons on the Cube used on the face buttons. You can still easily design games with twitch gaming in mind, but games that need alittle more control could use this to simplify control and use fewer buttons. And since it has a click sense to it, you can actually feel the second button press instead of the PS2 controller that you can't.

I'm not sure if any of you have a magazine seller nearby that sells the UK magazine "Retro Gamer," but in their October-December issue, they had a big article (plus DVD footage) about the Konix system, which was a game system that used a universal controller. The system was built into the controller, which could transform into a driving wheel, a flight yoke, handlebars, or whatever. It could also be connected to a special chair for motion. And, if you just had to play a conventional game, it still had two ports for standard joysticks. It's a rather interesting, if mostly forgotten, console that was never actually released. Worth a read, if you can find the magazine.

400,000 more DS systems in Japan! :-)