Topic: Game medium: CDs, cartridges, and the future.

[manunited4eva22]

Huh?  You hate optical media?  Is there some kind of great reason why they are so horrible?  What about magnetic media?  For the hell of it, what about vinal?
Optical media is in no way a horrible thing, and wireless or not, magnetic strips still work.  

Ever heard of MRAM?  tiny magnetic discs that at a lower capacity are dozens of times faster than current ram.  When capacity is increased they may develop nicely.

I may not like the fact that whoever was in charge of the latest optical generation decided to ditch the cd coverings ala the floppies, but I don't find anything horrible about them.  Fact is that I can destroy a flash drive just as easily as a cd.

I don't like getting into debates over this stuff, but optics in one way or another will have a future in computing.  Be it an optical processor, optical media, or god knows what else, there remains a place for it.

I don't really plan on debating this stuff, as I really don't care whether for some reason you like cartridges more than cds, but here is an interesting thing about rotation.

A university recently found that if a computer is rotated at about 33RPM (guess what vinyl spins at), that speed of rotation apparently allows for computers to run at a faster speed than when held still.

Another thing about current Flash RAM.  Current Flash memory does not allow for seak times fast enough to compete with optical memory.  The whole flash idea is somewhat devoid in theory because it was never made for large file movement.  Have you ever tried to download an entire 4GB flash drive? It takes well over 15-20 minutes.  The bus is just too slow.

One more thing;  before flash can become reasonably priced (Less than a dollar/gigabyte) It has to undergo many, many, die shrinks, find new ways to squelch heat, and also a way for it to be better mass produced.  The fact is that a silicon wafer will always cost more than a barrel of dye.

[Shift Key]

Don't get me wrong - I still love CDs. I play my discman at any opportunity I can get, do occasional backups to CDs (soon DVDs curse you garbage on my harddrive) and have 'coasters' on my desk too

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A university recently found that if a computer is rotated at about 33RPM (guess what vinyl spins at), that speed of rotation apparently allows for computers to run at a faster speed than when held still.

How on earth did they come to the decision to try this out?

[Koopa Troopa]

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Huh? You hate optical media? Is there some kind of great reason why they are so horrible?

Its slow. Its easily damaged, and even more easily obstructed by something as simple as a finger print. Its slow. It moves. Its slow.

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Ever heard of MRAM? tiny magnetic discs that at a lower capacity are dozens of times faster than current ram. When capacity is increased they may develop nicely.

Yes, I've heard of it. And I think it is really impressive. But it was supposed to begin taking over DRAM starting 2004ish. I haven't heard much about it. I realize that media switches take time, but there hasn't even been any buzz around tech communities.

However, I fail to see how this has anything to do with my hating CDs/DVDs.  


Holographic memory... now there is something I can live with

[chrisb]

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Originally posted by: Koopa Troopa

I may be mistaken then. I really don't think it is 100,000; I distinctly remember thinking, "That's it?" When I found it researching related materials.

EPROMs (Erasable Programmable ROM) can be rewritten about 1,000 times. However, EPROMs need to be erased by exposure to a certain frequency of light via a quartz window, not exactly practical for this sort of thing.

You're likely thinking of an EEPROM (Electrically Erasable Programmable ROM), which can be rewritten, depending on the specs of the particular chip, anywhere from 10,000 to 100,000 times. I'd say 10,000 saves is most likely enough.

[xts3]

Consoles will never, ever, ever go back to cartridges.  Optical media is superior in storage capacity and cost effectiveness.  This is the sole reason why Nintendo lost their #1 position in the video game market is because they didn't go with a key game-making tech that all developers wanted --> CD ROM/optical media that gave 10X more storage space and allowed for games like Final Fantasy VII with the CG.  You couldn't do games like FF VII for the N64 and thats why the N64 like the GC today has a supreme lack of RPG's is because it's storage media still stinks in capacity compared to the PS2 and xbox.  Final fantasy X took up 4 GIGS easy, a GC mini-disc is 1.5GIG a single DVDROM has 2x the storage capacity of a GC disc, thats nothing to be proud of as a GC owner.  Nintendo keeps making dumb mistakes like this.

[Koopa Troopa]

Xts3, shut up. If you bothered to read anything in this thread you'd find that solid state media (cartridges) are becoming cost effective AND high capacity. And, aside from those two factors, carts are superior in every way, and once those factors are resolved carts are gonna hit you so hard it'll break yo mama's hip, son.

So, why don't you take your misinformed self to an XBox or PS2 forum where your ill-informed ramblings will be accepted as knowledge.  

[xts3]

Whatever koopa, look at gaming history.  The the sole reason Nintendo lost to the PS1 was because they went with carts which had inferior storage capacity.  The fact is if carts were so cost effective and space efficient all the next generation systems would have them because they'd be infinitely much harder to pirate.  Xbox2 and PS3 are not going to have carts, maybe carts will become cheap enough but I really doubt they'll be cheap enough by the time revolution roles around and HD-DVD and blu-ray optical disc technology is around the corner which doubles if not quadruples optical disc capacities from 15 to 30GB+  You're neglecting whats on the horizon with optical media when you start talking about cartridges.  The fact is no next gen system (XBOX2, PS3, "NGC2") will have carts.  I can guarantee you that as having talked with developers in the industry.

[odifiend]

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Originally posted by: xts3
 This is the sole reason why Nintendo lost their #1 position in the video game market is because they didn't go with a key game-making tech that all developers wanted --> CD ROM/optical media that gave 10X more storage space and allowed for games like Final Fantasy VII with the CG.  You couldn't do games like FF VII for the N64 and thats why the N64 like the GC today has a supreme lack of RPG's is because it's storage media still stinks in capacity compared to the PS2 and xbox.

I finally figured out what was so misinformed about your post(s).  I agree that Nintendo lost its hold on the industry largely because of the media it chose.  However, I love the way you prove yourself so ignorant as always citing Final Fantasy as the example for everything.  The Gamecube has no FF games because of its smaller disc size, huh?  Damn, maybe I should get an Xbox and play FF there because it uses DVD roms.  If you knew anything, you'd know that FF is Playstation exclusive period.  It is the politics of the industry and not disc size that makes sure this game is not truly gracing the Gamecube and not on the Xbox.  Do you own Resident evil or Metal Gear solid?  I'm guessing not.  If you did, you'd know they both came on two discs.  What is more, they both retailed for 40 USD (as opposed to the standard 50).  Apparently cost of another disc is not a factor and according to history actually makes the game cheaper.

[xts3]

Odi,

I did not mean final fantasy or multi-disc issue was not the sole reason I'm saying its an additional reason when you consider porting to another platform and just another negative hit the GC doesn't need.  Esp when the primary platform the game was on was on a single disc.

[odifiend]

xts3,
in both threads where I've read your comments you are always citing RPGs as what the Gamecube is missing out on due to storage space.  I do not deny that disc size is another factor, but it is apparently a none issue for developers who give half a sh!t.  Resident Evil (which has a hell of a lot of FMV or CG) came out within the first year of the Gamecube so this problem was remedied early.  And I bet it would be easier for a game developper to split a game up rather than do a crappy compression then blame it on small disc size.