Author Topic: Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California  (Read 7210 times)

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Offline WindyMan

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Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« on: January 06, 2004, 08:37:30 AM »
A state assemblyman is hoping that two new bills will keep violent games out of the hands of the kiddies.

Link: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20040106-9999_1b6games.html


The fight to blame videogames as the sole reason for violence among young children has no end in sight.  In the state of California, State Assemblyman Leland Yee from San Francisco is introducing two new bills that he hopes will help to get M-rated games out of the hands of those who shouldn't be playing them.

The first bill would have all games containing graphic violence to be sold as "harmful matter," which would put them in the same category as alcohol, tobacco and firearms.  The second bill would require retailers to display M-rated titles at a height of five feet from the ground or higher, so that children won't see the naughty games at their eye level.  It also requires stores to better inform parents about the ESRB rating system.

Entertainment Software Association president Douglas Lowenstein says these bills are unconstitutional.  He has the precedent that similar laws passed in Indiana, Missouri and Washington were deemed so by the US federal courts.  Yee cites the many studies that link videogames to violent behavior as the reason why these bills are necessary.

The two bills are currently being reviewed in the California State Assembly.  
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2004, 09:00:21 AM »
This is ridiculous.  Games are as harmful as FIREARMS?  Gimme a break.  Alcohol, tobacco, and firearms directly cause harm.  Videogames do not.  People claim they may influence people to do bad things but that's not the same thing.  A videogame itself cannot harm a person just by being played.  Hell, you would have a tough time even using a game disc as a weapon.  And even if games do influence people (though I don't think they do, well not enough people to be so worried about it) so do movies, and TV shows, and music.  However those things are liked by the people who elect people like Yee or Leiberman so they can't touch those because it will lose votes.  However the amount of gamers who are old enough to vote is still small enough to use that form of entertainment as a scapegoat without fear of losing a lot of votes.

Fortunately like Douglas Lowenstein said these bills are unconstitutional so I assume they won't be passed.

Offline Kyosho

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RE:Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2004, 10:04:27 AM »
I think TV has a bigger impact on kids than video games.  *sigh*... it's those parents that want to blame everything/everyone else but themselves.  

Offline Jale

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RE:Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2004, 10:30:48 AM »
I sort of agree that they should be put at 5 feet or higher. Its jsut like other adult material (porn). It wont stop the kids but it might discorage them.

Offline Kobun Heat

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RE: Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2004, 10:46:48 AM »
If Doug E. Fresh says they're unconstitutional, I believe him. The man's got a good head on his shoulders. He's the kind of guy we need on our side.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2004, 11:14:32 AM »
"Its just like other adult material (porn)."

Why should videogames with a mature rated be regarded on the same level as pornography?  Maybe Manhunt belongs in that category but titles like Eternal Darkness, Metal Gear Solid, or Resident Evil certainly shouldn't be.  If 'M' rated games are to be treated in that sort of fashion then so should R-rated movies.

Offline Pikkcuber

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RE:Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2004, 12:40:12 PM »
I think Mature games should be put at a higher level if possible, but as for the other bill its not reasonable.
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Offline joshnickerson

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RE:Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2004, 02:38:27 PM »
"It also requires stores to better inform parents about the ESRB rating system."

It doesn't help. I've tried explaining the content to many parents who came and got Vice City for their kids this past holiday season, even pointing out the ratings system we have over each game case and the content discriptions on the back of the game.
"Oh, he's played it at his friends house, so I'm sure it's fine."
Ugh. It's worse than those customers who hate widescreen because "It cuts off the peoples heads in th' mov-ah!"

End Rant.

Offline Bartman3010

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RE: Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2004, 02:56:48 PM »
I'm sure Governor Arnold wont want this bill to pass if he wants Terminator 3 for X Box to sell.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2004, 03:09:00 PM »
Quote

Ugh. It's worse than those customers who hate widescreen because "It cuts off the peoples heads in th' mov-ah!"


It amazes me movies are even released in fullscreen at all- at the very least widescreen should be standard. The people who claim to prefer fullscreen obviously have not seen a side-by-side comparison of a film in both formats- the fullscreen picture quite literally butchers the image to make it take up the entire television screen, while the widescreen picture reproduces exactly what you would see in a theater (ie eveything).  Here is a comparison of the widescreen and fullscreen DVD's of The Two Towers. Sorry for going off topic, but I can't stand people that ignore widescreen simply because of the black bars.

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Offline nolimit19

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RE: Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2004, 03:17:52 PM »
yea im with mouse...when people tell me they dont like wide screen because it cuts off the heads, i literally go insane for a couple seconds. anyways i think both bills are reasonable, but i do think that movies and tv are much more influential on kids than video games.
A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice.

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Offline Guapo

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RE: Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2004, 03:32:43 PM »
I can't see this bill passing now that the terminater himself is governer of my fair state.  Movies used to have to adhere to strict rules about violence, language etc.  Then they came out with a rating system and producers were free to make whatever they wanted.  Why do videogame producers not have the same treatment now that it has ratings? Could there be a prejudice against these "childs toys"? Frankly that is how these politicians see them...Toys.  

And No limit, I hate widscreen because I like to see more than one half of it.  I have a forty inch TV.  What is the point if I can only see 25 inces?  It is a waste of money, power and technology (this prejudice will probably leave if I ever get a Widescreen TV or projecter system that my dad hints at wanting). Mouse, that picture should have the widescreen picture about 1/5 the size it is.  I would love widescreen if it was really that big and cool, but it isn't.  It shriks my screen and limits the overall viewing area (the screen does not get any wider, just shorter).  
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RE:Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2004, 08:28:06 PM »
The only harm games do is to my eyeballs.
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Offline Shin Gallon

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RE:Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2004, 08:32:23 PM »
If you want to see more than one half of the movie, you should love widescreen. By watching fullscreen you're missing anywhere from 25-50% of what the director filmed for the movie. The black bars are there to keep the proper aspect ratio for the film present. If they weren't there there's be nothing but static.
I honestly don't see how anyone with functioning eyes  can look at the full-screen and widescreen versions of a film and prefer pan-scan just because "it fills more of the screen" (which is the most absurd argument for pan-scan I've ever heard). Widescreen shows the movie HOW IT WAS MADE, which is how it should be seen. What's a waste of money and technology is pan-scanning films thus destroying the artistic intentions of the filmmakers. Look at more examples here and tell me you still feel that way:
www.widescreen.org

As for that proposed law, it's absurd as well...just more stupid parents blaming everything but their lack of parenting skills for their kids screwing up.
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Offline DrZoidberg

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RE: Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2004, 08:39:03 PM »
video games damage my arse, mostly because my chair is pretty crappy.

One case of idiots out of five million (using the morons who fired upon cars claiming they got the idea from GTA3 vs copies sold) is a pretty good record for me, how many kids hurt them selfs trying to fly like superman i wonder...
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Offline Berto2K

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RE:Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2004, 08:42:40 PM »
I first heard if this lousy excuse for a California politician about a month ago.  I then proceeded to write off an email of which he will never read or even reach his desk.  But I needed to vent to him on a somewhat controlled manner.  My email follows:

Dr. Yee,

   I read the interview that you gave with the website www.homelanfed.com and disagree with your proposed bill very strongly.  After looking over your website, you look like you would be a member of the senior citizen age group. The ones who have never had anything to do with games unless they were computer programmers until now. This bill of yours is nothing more than a shot to make you look better for a re-election to the mass voters (usually 30+ age). But what many fail to realize, is that age group is very quickly being flooded with gamers my age who grew up on games in the eighties.

These gamers (those who know the difference between games and life) are always being trounced on because of some nitwits who choose to think that they can relive the activities in the games for themselves. Why punish all of us because of the moronic actions of a few.

Your examples are heavily flawed. It sounds that you feel that since Grand Theft Auto (GTA) has come out, there has been a new activity called car jacking. Sorry, but it dates back to at least the 1920's with organized crime which is also present in GTA.  And crime lords like Al Capone are nothing but fiction. Medal of Honor, which is mentioned in the interview, does not have any blood or gore in it. Yes it shows shooting people and the beaches on D-Day. That is real history, sorry.

You claim that these games with violence in them causes a rise in violent behavior, well I heavily beg to differ.  Why at QuakeCon, any Professional Gamers League tournament, or any Cyberathlete Professional League tournaments are there never any outbreaks of violence with all the violent games being played by hundreds of people of all ages? They play games such as Quake, Doom, and Counterstrike.  All three of those are first-person shooters.  In fact, back in 1998 when you held a position on the Francisco Board of Supervisors, there was a Professional Gamers' League championship held in San Francisco at Club-i, a cybercafe.  There were almost 2000 competitors and no incidents of violence of any kind.

The problems are the store employees and the kids' parents.  My parents would not let me buy my own games when I was younger.  They bought them all.  I have played all types of games by now and have never been in a violent confrontation or situation.  Retail stores are required to ask for identification when games rated M are brought to their register.  It is their obligation to be informed on the products that they are selling and to inform their customers of their purchases.  Parents have the right to watch over the child's gameplay activities because they are minors and it is in the parent's house.  It is my belief and many others that parents have gone soft in recent years with watching over their kids.  It is lawmakers like yourself that make these laws that help to take the responsibility of being a parent out of parenting.

You are not trying to make it "better" for the kids. If anything, it will cause more violence from the kids who will try and steal the games that they can't buy. It will cause retail companies to lose sales. You are trying to put a mark on an industry you know little to nothing about. You even state in the interview:

"I have not personally played these games, however many of my staff members have. I have seen numerous footage pieces of these games, which clearly shows the need for such legislation."

I'm willing to bet my bank accounts that you have never been to an organized gaming event. You have not even touched a single one of your targeted games. If you want to gain any type of backing for this bill and earn respect for your voters, you have to put yourself in the situations to see what it is like. Otherwise they will not give you the time of day with apparently ignorant remarks and bases.  I sincerely hope that you will do some more personal research and find that your bill is off base and completely not needed.


Gamer and resident of San Jose, CA,

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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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RE:Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2004, 08:53:03 PM »
I seem to recall Lowenstein talking about the laws/censorship stuff generally going on with games and he was very passionately against it. Thank god somebody is.

I'm all for for bending over backwards to show parents how the ratings work, though. Although they HAVE been in use in like almost 10 years and any folks who haven't caught onto it by now are obviously scatterbrains and should be beaten with a newspaper)

Offline Ms.Pikmin

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RE:Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2004, 05:02:17 PM »
I think the real issue is that parents need to take responsibility for what games their kids buy.  I'm tired of people relying on the government or whoever else to take care of these issues.  I have made a bad decision or two with games I've let my son get.  But I know it's my own doing and I have the choice to take the game away or let him continue playing.  

The boxes have a description of the content and there are always sales people around who have some idea of what the rating/description actually translates into.  Many times I have questioned the content of a game and someone has just about always been able to tell me from first hand experience what the content actually is.  People are just dumb if they're walking out with an obviously inappropriate game for a young kid.  

As far as the games being kept up on a higher shelf, I don't know what the point is.  When it comes to adult magazines I understand since the profane content is right there for the kids to see.  With a video game the boxes are generally pretty tame and you have to read the rating info on the back to know that inappropriate content is in the game.

I think it may also intrigue kids to look at the "higher shelf" games simply because they're so obviously being put out of their reach.  I know when I was a kid the adult magazine section always intrigued me just because we were told to stay away from it.





Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2004, 07:45:42 AM »
I think violent games should be treated like pornography (actually, that's the case here), although they (unlike normal pornos) display illegal acts. If there is a reason to keep minors from pornography, the same reason should be applied to keeping them away from violent games.

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2004, 10:33:27 AM »
"I have not personally played these games, however many of my staff members have. I have seen numerous footage pieces of these games, which clearly shows the need for such legislation."

Translation: "I have NO valid arguements."  You can't complain about music you've never listened to, movies you've never watched, or games you've never played.  PERIOD.

"I know when I was a kid the adult magazine section always intrigued me just because we were told to stay away from it."

Gee, I don't know about anyone else but I was always interested in those mags because they had BOOBS!

As for the off topic widescreen debate I myself frequently get into arguements with my dad when renting a movie about which version to rent.  Despite the numerous facts I have presented to him he is convinced that with widescreen editions they cut off stuff from the top and bottom.  In his mind movies and television are presented in the same aspect ratio and that widescreen movies have stuff cut off to accomodate widescreen TVs.  ARRGGH!!  When I was younger I actually used to favour full screen but that's because my parents always went with full screen.  Then a TV station showed Ben-Hur in widescreen and after being utterly amazed I converted.  I do sort of understand people's complaints when they have a dinky 20" TV because in widescreen everything looks much smaller.  However if you have anything over 24" I think the picture is big enough that widescreen is the only way to go.  "They cut off people's heads" is the dumbest arguement ever because it's factually WRONG.

Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2004, 11:07:07 AM »
Quote

"I know when I was a kid the adult magazine section always intrigued me just because we were told to stay away from it."

Gee, I don't know about anyone else but I was always interested in those mags because they had BOOBS!


I think Ms.Pikmin meant more that everyone, especially kids, are attracted to things they know they shouldn't be dealing with- it's a simple resistance of authority. When you tell a kid not to do something, that's generally the first thing they do. Hence, as it seems Ms.Pikmin was saying, if they put violent videogames on higher shelves, it will only make littler kids more interested in them.

Quote

I think violent games should be treated like pornography (actually, that's the case here), although they (unlike normal pornos) display illegal acts. If there is a reason to keep minors from pornography, the same reason should be applied to keeping them away from violent games.


Movies have depicted  much more illegal acts for about a century now, and they're not treated like pornography, so why should videogames? It's quite odd, because when you really look closely at most videogames, they are far more tame than many movies. It was only recently that f*ck and sh*t, or nudity, were in a videogame at all. People were startled and outraged by the violence in Grand Theft Auto III, yet nobody even blinks an eye at movies like Kill Bill. As several people here have said, videogames are being treated like toys by these politicians, even though far more crude and offensive content is available in movies. These politicians have a very detached view of videogames consider their rather recent history. Until we get into further generations, when kids that grew up on videogames become the politicians, I think there will always be resistance to them.
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Offline Ms.Pikmin

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RE:Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2004, 11:52:39 AM »
Thank you, MouseClicker, that is what I meant.  I just think that separating them out is just drawing more attention to the games.  Not to mention that 5 feet is not all that high.  My son is 4'8" at almost 9 years old.  It would not exactly be hard for him to reach less than 6" above his head.  For young teens the point is completely lost.  


Offline nolimit19

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RE:Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2004, 02:03:07 PM »
you dont need to experience to know its bad. and i think the laws are good because minors are minors...look it up. parents can not watch their kids 24/7. there should be regulations on video games just like there is for EVERYTHING else. if there are no standards, there would be chaos. these laws are not making it hard for adults to buy video games.....hahahha remember when dumb greece out lawed video games. hahahhahahaha
A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice.

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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2004, 03:02:15 PM »
No one is saying regulations shouldn't exist, nolimit, just that what is being proposed in California right now is unneccesary and overreacting- they don't need that many restrictions. What we have is doing the job fine- if there's any improvement, that would be in educating people on the rating system, like many others have said here.
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Offline Samsonite

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RE:Violent Videogame Bills Introduced in California
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2004, 10:41:59 PM »
   Good news!  I hope they keep such filth as  GTA out of the hands of our youth, I just hope they could get junk like that banned permanantly.  For you hippies who think mass murders, prostitution, sex drugs, and every other vile thing can be portrayed to the vulnerable mind of a youth and not have any adverse effects on their mind are living in some dream world.  Id bet 9/10 of you wouldnt want your own children pouring such things into their imgainations, so why belly ache when some measure is taken to prevent it?   Heres to Nintendo who has tried to shy away from such filth in their 1st party games!  I will support Nintendo whole-heartedly as long as this is so.  May God Bless you all,  Sam.  
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