Author Topic: North American Virtual Console Releases  (Read 14593 times)

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Offline UncleBob

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2007, 09:38:28 AM »
I don't see how making every single level in the game new, adding 50% more levels, adding a new "power up" (or, Power Down, if you will), new effects, new enemies and new graphics to the game makes it an "expansion pack".  Is New Super Mario Bros. (DS) an "Expansion Pack"?

Was Heretic a Doom expansion pack?  Hell, was Doom 2 an expansion pack?

This game is pretty much the most challenging Super Mario Brothers game ever - and I welcome it.  Those who don't... well, they're just scared.... and I don't blame you, the game is hard.  It's okay if you're afraid of hard games.  Go play yourself some Wind Waker or Donkey Kong Jr. Math.

In fact, I'd love if Nintendo created actual expansions for SMB and sold them as Wii Ware products or something.  I'd love to see what some of the other creators in the Video Game field could do with SMB level designs.
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Offline pyrokamileon

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RE:North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2007, 09:40:21 AM »
As good as Super Mario Bros. Deluxe sounded apparently the lost levels portion wasn't that good: it was missing levels (credit: insanolord) and it used the same sprites for the whole GBC game (credit: IGN boards: WarlockSol) so i guess that means VC version it is!

Damn Nintendo first you make me buy MP3, now S&P and the lost levels!  Between games that came out recently like Drawn to Life and Pricross and games that are just coming out or will be like Phantom Hourglass, Chibi-Robo DS, Mario Galaxy and Smash Bros. I just don't know what to do!
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Offline UncleBob

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2007, 09:43:27 AM »
SMBDX's lost levels were *nothing*.  They did recycle the graphics from SMB1, they were missing the 16 bonus levels and they were made tons and tons easier.

Don't get me wrong, SMBDX is a decent little compilation... but if you really want to play some hard Mario, SMB2J is the game to get.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2007, 10:18:14 AM »
"I don't see how making every single level in the game new, adding 50% more levels, adding a new 'power up' (or, Power Down, if you will), new effects, new enemies and new graphics to the game makes it an 'expansion pack'."

Compared to virtually all of Nintendo's sequels at the time it feels like an expansion pack.  Hell it looks almost identical to Super Mario Bros.  Every other Mario game in screenshots alone looks unique.  You can spot what game is which from a mile away.  And I don't consider stuff like red pirana plants as new enemies.  A palette swap with slightly different behaviour?  Come on.  I expect way better from Nintendo.  Even the NES Mega Man games are less lazy than that.  Normally I don't like corporations changing a game to make it part of another franchise but Super Mario Bros 2 is a major exception.  North America got a much better sequel even if it really wasn't one.

How much new graphics are in the game anyway?  The clouds?  All the "new" enemies use the same sprites from Super Mario Bros.  The whole thing looks like something a fan made.

Offline Svevan

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2007, 10:45:37 AM »
So back to Sin and Punishment:

Hello! This game is kinda hard. And awesome. It's like Gunstar Heroes meets Star Fox 64. The Gunstar Heroes comparison is stronger, thanks to silly music, stupid nonsense story, tons and tons of enemies, short length, high difficulty, etc.  
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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RE:North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2007, 10:56:38 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I remember reading that Nintendo didn't bother translating anything in SMB2 (Lost Levels) so I'm not sure there is a reason for the higher price if that is the case, except to screw people.


Any translation of Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan) would be unnecessary as the entire game was originally in English anyway.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2007, 11:04:52 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
Considering that Lost Levels was released as a full game in Japan, I don't think your "expansion pack" verbiage is really working out.


It is called a sarcastic comment. Basically SMB2 looks, plays, and is designed like SMB1, just harder. Heck even the ending is pretty much the same, with bowser dieing the exact same way. It is the very definition of an expansion pack, it is like a "new" adventure using the same code as the original, heck that may even be too kind because at least PC expansion packs sometimes add alot of new content. What did SMB2 have? Poison mushrooms, pallett swapped enemies, and more pits of doom? The game was and still is a quick n dirty "sequel" to suck off SMB1 until SMB3 came out.  Once again I agree with Ian, but of course Uncle Bobs response will be "It was too hard for you, that is why you didn't like it". I think I ended up beating it once, but I remember some very cheap pits that seemed very forced. Regardless SMB2 has to be the least like a Nintendo sequel.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2007, 11:05:34 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
So back to Sin and Punishment:

Hello! This game is kinda hard. And awesome. It's like Gunstar Heroes meets Star Fox 64. The Gunstar Heroes comparison is stronger, thanks to silly music, stupid nonsense story, tons and tons of enemies, short length, high difficulty, etc.


Could it be that the reason why it compares to Gunstar Heroes, is because it is made by the developer?
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Offline Svevan

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2007, 11:08:24 AM »
WHAT? NO WAIT, WHAT? Sin and Punishment was made by THE SAME GUYS THAT DID GUNSTAR HEROES? Get out of town, Sophia, GET OUT OF TOWN.

That COULD be the reason....
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Offline UltimatePartyBear

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RE:North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2007, 11:08:33 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"I don't see how making every single level in the game new, adding 50% more levels, adding a new 'power up' (or, Power Down, if you will), new effects, new enemies and new graphics to the game makes it an 'expansion pack'."

Compared to virtually all of Nintendo's sequels at the time it feels like an expansion pack.  Hell it looks almost identical to Super Mario Bros.  Every other Mario game in screenshots alone looks unique.  You can spot what game is which from a mile away.  And I don't consider stuff like red pirana plants as new enemies.  A palette swap with slightly different behaviour?  Come on.  I expect way better from Nintendo.  Even the NES Mega Man games are less lazy than that.  Normally I don't like corporations changing a game to make it part of another franchise but Super Mario Bros 2 is a major exception.  North America got a much better sequel even if it really wasn't one.

How much new graphics are in the game anyway?  The clouds?  All the "new" enemies use the same sprites from Super Mario Bros.  The whole thing looks like something a fan made.


It reminds me of the mission packs we used to get for PC FPS games.  They were typically big enough to count as full games, but they used all the same assets as the original game.  They were also harder than the original thanks to devious level design.

Offline Svevan

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2007, 11:09:20 AM »
So we know Sophia's recommendations - anyone else around here have an opinion?
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2007, 11:10:11 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
WHAT? NO WAIT, WHAT? Sin and Punishment was made by THE SAME GUYS THAT DID GUNSTAR HEROES? Get out of town, Sophia, GET OUT OF TOWN.

That COULD be the reason....


Well that would definitely explain the comparison in gameplay. Don't worry I'll always be here to educate you!
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2007, 11:11:25 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: PartyBear
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"I don't see how making every single level in the game new, adding 50% more levels, adding a new 'power up' (or, Power Down, if you will), new effects, new enemies and new graphics to the game makes it an 'expansion pack'."

Compared to virtually all of Nintendo's sequels at the time it feels like an expansion pack.  Hell it looks almost identical to Super Mario Bros.  Every other Mario game in screenshots alone looks unique.  You can spot what game is which from a mile away.  And I don't consider stuff like red pirana plants as new enemies.  A palette swap with slightly different behaviour?  Come on.  I expect way better from Nintendo.  Even the NES Mega Man games are less lazy than that.  Normally I don't like corporations changing a game to make it part of another franchise but Super Mario Bros 2 is a major exception.  North America got a much better sequel even if it really wasn't one.

How much new graphics are in the game anyway?  The clouds?  All the "new" enemies use the same sprites from Super Mario Bros.  The whole thing looks like something a fan made.


It reminds me of the mission packs we used to get for PC FPS games.  They were typically big enough to count as full games, but they used all the same assets as the original game.  They were also harder than the original thanks to devious level design.


You know that is probably the best comparison. I almost forgot about those types of expansion packs.
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Offline UncleBob

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2007, 12:31:11 PM »
Y'all do realize that, although the sprites are the same (except for the new enemies), the rest of the graphics are pretty much entirely new, right?

Someone with more talent post up some SMB1/SMB2J screen shots for comparison, will ya?
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Offline Caliban

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2007, 01:04:37 PM »
Super Mario Bros The Lost Levels is hard, but I like the fact that when I lose all my lives I can continue from the beginning of the world I was in, for example I lost my last life on world 2-2 and so I can continue but I'm back at 2-1 instead of 1-1 like in Super Mario Bros.

I also got Sin and Punishment but I have yet to try it out, unfortunately.

Offline DAaaMan64

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2007, 02:14:45 PM »
I am picking up both of these.  This is a wiik where I can say, thanks nintendo
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Offline Deezer

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RE:North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2007, 02:28:24 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Entroper

Thankfully, I already have The Lost Levels on my SNES in Super Mario All-Stars.

It's really a shame that somehow they messed up the jumping in Lost Levels (and SMB) in All-Stars. When Mario jumps and breaks a brick, he is pulled upward for a split-second.


Offline Nemo

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2007, 03:42:57 PM »
Does S&P have English or Japanese menus? I remember reading an import review a looooong time ago that said it'd be tricky to navigate menus in Japanese. There apparently was a place where you could erase your save file(s) if you didn't know what you were doing.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2007, 04:10:57 PM »
The menus have been translated for the VC release of Sin & Punishment. And you can start over at the beginning of the world you're in instead of 1-1 in the original SMB by holding A and pressing start at the title screen after a game over.
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Offline Maximilian

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2007, 04:20:58 PM »
Holy cow.  I have purchased S&P and CANNOT download it.  It has a problem every time I try.  Maybe it's getting downloaded a ton or maybe it's something else.  Either way, I am chomping at the bit to play on the Wii.

I can't believe most of the discussion is about Lost Levels.  Probably because many of you haven't played S&P yet.  

And Evan:  The story is nonsensical at first, but it's like some anime where when you get to the end, everything that came before somehow makes perfect sense.  It's weirdly wonderful that way.


Offline that Baby guy

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2007, 04:57:50 PM »
It took about half an hour to download it for me, I think.  I started doing something else partway through.

It should be noted that in Super Mario Bros. 2 (The Lost Levels), Luigi controls are altered from Mario's.  His jump is higher, while his "steering" is looser.  And yes, it's very noticeable.  Did the SNES version play this way, too?  I don't recall it, nor do I recall it on the GB version, but it's possible I was just ignorant.

I think it's fair to consider The Lost Levels as an expansion to the first game, especially anywhere besides Japan.  I mean, look at the dubbed name - The Lost Levels.  They're practically saying it right there.  Does this make it bad?  Not in any way.  If you like the original Super Mario Bros., and can handle a challenge, this game is for you.

It's about as much as an expansion as Halo 3 is upon Halo 2, only it has more levels that its predecessor, really.  And it was made in what, '88?


As for Sin and Punishment, I figured out the way the controls flowed pretty quickly, with one exception:  How do you sword things?  I know it's possible, I've seen it on youtube, so it has to be true.  I think I've tried all the buttons, though, so I must be missing how the timing works.

Offline UncleBob

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2007, 05:00:45 PM »
In SMB All Stars, Luigi had his flutter jump.  He did not in SMBDX.
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Offline chaingunsofdoom

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2007, 05:03:09 PM »
Did my duty as a gamer and downloaded both! S&P took a while to DL for me too. Can someone recommend the best control scheme (Type 3 seemed OK to me but something felt off)?

As an added 'bonus' from Nintendo, after my first CC point buy failed and gave me a strange six digit error msg (something like 380450), it actually did go through, so I ended-up with 4000 pts when I only wanted 2000.

Offline Svevan

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RE: North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2007, 05:11:34 PM »
I find the default type to be perfect for the Classic Controller.
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Offline Entroper

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RE:North American Virtual Console Releases
« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2007, 05:18:58 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Deezer
Quote

Originally posted by: Entroper

Thankfully, I already have The Lost Levels on my SNES in Super Mario All-Stars.

It's really a shame that somehow they messed up the jumping in Lost Levels (and SMB) in All-Stars. When Mario jumps and breaks a brick, he is pulled upward for a split-second.


A very minor detail that is easily overcome by the numerous improvements to the game.  You can all call me a n00b if you want, but I like being able to continue on the exact stage where I lost my last life.  It's not like the levels are actually easier to beat, you just have to repeat them less.  Plus, World 9 is actually accessible now.