Topic: Nintendo isn't the problem..you are.

[thecubedcanuck]

I use to buy every NIN game because I knew I would like them. I dont any more because their games have become a big dissapointment to me. I owe Nintendo nothing.

[The Omen]

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Edit:This thread title is so condescending and insulting. For your information, the majority of my games are third party, and GameCube owners aren't different from anyone else. If you put out Soul Caliber 2's and REmake caliber games, they will be successful. Sure, many great third party games were ignored, but Sony is in a similar position. Some PS2 owners gravitate toward Madden and GTA, while ICO and Mark of Kri were ignored. So was Sly Cooper. In that case, Sony is in the opposite position, but still one where good games are not selling, so maybe I should say that PS2 owners are multiplatform elitists.

Boo-Hoo.  Cry me a F'N river then.  As I said earlier in this thread , if it isn't about you, so be it.  Do not act like every 'you' in a paragraph means you specifically.   Using YOU is easier than naming names, or doing a 5 year research plan, thats how it works.  YOU means the general public, not YOU, the overreactive fanboy.

[The Omen]

Quote
Edit:This thread title is so condescending and insulting. For your information, the majority of my games are third party, and GameCube owners aren't different from anyone else. If you put out Soul Caliber 2's and REmake caliber games, they will be successful. Sure, many great third party games were ignored, but Sony is in a similar position. Some PS2 owners gravitate toward Madden and GTA, while ICO and Mark of Kri were ignored. So was Sly Cooper. In that case, Sony is in the opposite position, but still one where good games are not selling, so maybe I should say that PS2 owners are multiplatform elitists.

Boo-Hoo.  Cry me a F'N river then.  As I said earlier in this thread , if it isn't about you, so be it.  Do not act like every 'you' in a paragraph means you specifically.   Using YOU is easier than naming names, or doing a 5 year research plan, thats how it works.  YOU the general public, not YOU.

ThePerm, I am older than alot of you, but I assure you I was in the same position as you, owning The NES the SNES and 64.  TLOZ was the first 39.99 game, and my mother was disgusted.  I had to get a friggin paper route to buy the games I wanted.  Bottom line is, I still bought 6-8 games a years, even back then.  Its really not a inconceivable number.

[the_zombie_luke]

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Originally posted by: The Omen

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Edit:This thread title is so condescending and insulting. For your information, the majority of my games are third party, and GameCube owners aren't different from anyone else. If you put out Soul Caliber 2's and REmake caliber games, they will be successful. Sure, many great third party games were ignored, but Sony is in a similar position. Some PS2 owners gravitate toward Madden and GTA, while ICO and Mark of Kri were ignored. So was Sly Cooper. In that case, Sony is in the opposite position, but still one where good games are not selling, so maybe I should say that PS2 owners are multiplatform elitists.

Boo-Hoo.  Cry me a F'N river then.  As I said earlier in this thread , if it isn't about you, so be it.  Do not act like every 'you' in a paragraph means you specifically.   Using YOU is easier than naming names, or doing a 5 year research plan, thats how it works.  YOU means the general public, not YOU, the overreactive fanboy.

You should have said as much in the title then. You could have said GameCube owners or Nintendo fans in the title. Even though you attacked me as a fanboy, you dodged what everyone has been telling you, and what I have told you. Microsoft and Sony created a market for third parties on their system, and Nintendo did not with the GameCube. If you're placing blame on Nintendo's customers, and not the suits who run it, you need to get a clue.  

[Rhoq]

In response to the very first post in this thread…

15 years, many of us were pre-teens/adolescents (and some weren’t even born yet). I was 12 years old. I had whatever games interested me. A lot of them sucked…but I didn’t care. Do you know why I didn’t care? Because I didn’t waste my money on those games, my parents did. Back then it was all about who owned the most games. Not who got the most out their gaming experience.

As an adult gamer, my tastes have changed. Now I do care what games I have. I am not going to waste my time or money on a game that has received a countless number of poor reviews. If I am the slightest bit interested in a title, I always wait for a review. I try to stick with games that receive at least a 7/10 rating, but try to stick with 8/10 and higher. If a game that I am interested in  scores below an average rating of 7, I know there is a good reason why and I make the decision not to waste my money on a game that has turned out to be a disappointment to so many reviewers.  I use the reviews as a way to research games. Once I am done with my analysis, I reach a verdict. The verdict is either one of 3 decisions…1. MUST HAVE, 2. STILL INTERESTED AND WILL PURCHASE EVENTUALLY or 3. PASS – NO LONGER INTERESTED

If you look at my collection, most of the games I own this generation are considered by many to be “Must Have” titles. I have tried my best to avoid crap, but I had opted not to listen to reviews on a couple of titles and as a result Legends Of Wrestling and Wolverine’s Revenge were traded-in shortly after purchasing. Adult gamers think differently than teenagers and children. We don’t care about how many games we have in our collections (I have too many, LOL). All we care about is getting the most satisfying experience for our money and time spent playing. I admit without any shame I am a “casual gamer”. I don’t have the time to be anything but a casual gamer. As it right now, I haven’t had the time to play games since the weekend Metal Gear Solid was released.

I refuse to waste my money on a game just because it comes in a cool-looking package. A game could come in a plain white cover with black-text for all I care as long as the content of the title is worth the purchase. I will admit that there have been a few occasions over the last year that I fell victim to the hype-machine and have bought games based on their hype alone. Metroid Prime, The Wind Waker, Enter The Matrix, Soul Calibur II and Metal Gear Solid were all purchase based on hype. With the exception of The Matrix (which despites it’s many flaws isn’t so bad), all of these games delivered what many people claimed they would.

From what I have seen from browsing different GameCube forums, many ‘Cube owners are over the age of 18. I know that I can’t be the only one with this mentality. I don’t deny that sometimes taking a chance on a game you know nothing about can be a good thing, I would just rather do my research first, so I don’t end-up being disappointed later.
 

[The Omen]

I did include myself in the initial post..but thats neither here nor there.  I do agree Nintendo just sucks when it comes to marketing.  I think they need to be more aggressive.  But I don't think thats the overriding factor on why every single game released is ignored.  The hardcore gamer would know of these games, whether they're advertised or not, right?  So if we take this myth that we are the real hardcore gamers, and theres 8 million GCs sold in the U.S., where are the sales for these games?  It actually shows that maybe there aren't so many hardcore gamers, maybe every gamer nowadays is a casual gamer, and I just think it's time to face facts-the games not selling is our fault, not 100%, but a large percentage.

By the way, I am a Nintendo fanboy, so don't take the fanboy term as an insult.

RHOQ, why read reviews?  They're just opinions, right?  I don't listen to reviews for movies, and I don't for games.  I read about the games, but I will not buy based on anothers opinion.   I buy what I want .  If it gets high reviews, thats fine, but even if it got mediocre reviews, if I want it, I buy it.  I believe a lot of people do what you do, but isn't a 6 rating above average?  There is tons of games we're missing just because of sh!t like that.

[the_zombie_luke]

I guess Nintendo is stepping up in some ways. They have been advertising EA's games for GameCube for instance, and they did their own commercials for Viewtiful Joe. They advertised Crystal Chronicles, but I didn't see any Nintendo Twin Snake commercials, but that was Konami's fault. I just hope Nintendo pushes third party games more. They're getting there, and if they had the third party support they have for the GBA, if they had that support for GameCube, they could take as long as they wanted for their in-house games. I guess the hardcore gamers is somewhat of myth, since Beyond Good and Evil and Prince of Persia should have done better. Or maybe it's that the hardcore gamers have such varying tastes that their numbers can't gurantee a sleeper hit's success.

And by the way, I'm evaluating my Nintendo fanboy status. Four Swords Adventures and Wind Waker 2 will either make me jump ship or stay aboard.  

[the_zombie_luke]

"RHOQ, why read reviews?  They're just opinions, right?  I don't listen to reviews for movies, and I don't for games.  I read about the games, but I will not buy based on anothers opinion.   I buy what I want .  If it gets high reviews, thats fine, but even if it got mediocre reviews, if I want it, I buy it.  I believe a lot of people do what you do, but isn't a 6 rating above average?  There is tons of games we're missing just because of sh!t like that."


I agree with that. Reviews can help weed out obvious bad games, but they can be misleading. I remember Lost Kingdoms 2 got average reviews, and I said, "Who cares? I want to play it!" It became my favorite game of the generation!

[Ian Sane]

Do you know how many SNES games I owned when the system was still current?  About five.  That's one game for each year of the SNES' lifespan as a current console.  Most of my friends only owned a few games as well.  It made sense.  We were kids and thus didn't have any money so we only occasionally got new games for our birthday or Christmas or from saving up.  Most of our experience with games was from rentals.  Yet the SNES didn't have third parties dropping support.  SNES games weren't selling under expectations.  Why?  Because the userbase was huge so a game didn't have to rely on everybody buying 8 games a year to make it a success.  The odds were such that if the game was decent and marketed well enough people bought it to make a profit.  Now there is another factor in that case since games cost less to make then but that doesn't affect raw sales counts.

The reason the userbase was huge was because of Nintendo.  They had good support from third parties, they released some KILLER first party games, they had great marketing, and they knew EXACTLY what the gaming public wanted and gave it to them.  They also busted their ass to make it a success.  Nintendo didn't do this with the Cube.  They half-assed it from the start and never even put a quarter of the effort into it that they did with their previous consoles.  And sure enough the userbase is smaller and the games aren't selling that well.  Note that this issue is completely non-existant with the GBA which Nintendo has dedicated much more effort towards.

It's Nintendo's fault.  It's not the responsibility of consumers to make something successful.  People buy what they like and Nintendo has to make sure that people want to buy their console and thus buy Cube games.

[theRPGFreak]

You know what I think the problem is? The controller and the disk size. Before you tell me that is a horrible excuse, let me just state out why I think so. I work at Target and am helping out in electronics all of the time. One customer wanted to buy two games:Legend of Zelda WW and Need for Speed Underground. I pulled both out for her adn then 10 minutes later she returned Need for Speed because it was on the wrong system! I asked her why if she has a Gamecube, but she said that her son likes it for the PS2 better because of the controller and thinks it is somehow better on a normal size disk rather than a mini disc! Sure I know that there is no difference graphic wise, but I think that the real problem is the GC controller does not work well with games like Prince of Persia or Need for Speed with some people. It seems to me that people only buy the exclusives for the GC and everything else for their PS2 collection. The same can be said with sports games.

[Rhoq]

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Originally posted by: The Omen

RHOQ, why read reviews?  They're just opinions, right?  I don't listen to reviews for movies, and I don't for games.  I read about the games, but I will not buy based on anothers opinion.   I buy what I want .  If it gets high reviews, thats fine, but even if it got mediocre reviews, if I want it, I buy it.  I believe a lot of people do what you do, but isn't a 6 rating above average?  There is tons of games we're missing just because of sh!t like that.

I understand your POV, I really do. BUT – I still find reviews to be helpful. Trust me, I go straight to the break-down of Pros and Cons. I couldn’t care less about the bullsh*t written in the body of the review. I also make sure that I read at least 5 different reviews from “professional sources” and 2 “reader reviews” (if they are available) before making my final decision. If I read about the same issues that hinder the game from being enjoyable in every review then I am not going to buy the game. Many games suffer from camera and collision detection problems. Those types of problems are important to me.

As far as ratings are concerned, I agree 6 is supposedly better than average, but I would think that the goal for any game would be to have it score a “perfect 10”. I figure by limiting my choices to games scoring at least a 7 and higher, I could avoid some crappy titles.

Am I missing out on some great games? Probably so, I wouldn’t doubt that I am. Perhaps I feel more secure knowing that I have done a bit of research before committing to a purchase. With new titles for the GameCube becoming fewer and farther between, I have 2 choices before the must-have Summer & Fall titles are released…Play the games I already do have (but hardly any time to play) or  take a chance and buy a game or two that I am interested in. Knowing me, I will probably buy more games that I won’t have anytime to play. I will make a blind purchase though and see what results I end up with

[couchmonkey]

There are a lot of arguments on both sides here that I disagree with.
On the one hand, it's not the hardcore Nintendo fan's fault if third party games aren't selling well.  As many of us here have pointed out, we own these games, there just aren't enough of Nintendo fanatics, enough time, and enough money to make every single good game a top 10 hit.
On the other hand, Nintendo has made some dumb decisions, but it's not just sitting on it's arse when it comes to expanding the user base.  In my opinion, Nintendo has had a consistently better lineup of games than the Xbox for the past 20 months, and the GameCube is also much cheaper.  Nintendo may not be doing every little thing it could to win the fight, but I think it's also fighting an astounding amount of apathy from consumers towards a product that's superior to the Xbox and on par with the PS2 - in my opinion.

[Bill Aurion]

"Prince of persia, again what a typical Ninty fan supposedly likes."

Eh?  But anyways, I'm particularly picky about the games I buy, since I have a pretty small budget set aside for them...This leads me to buy the higher quality first-party titles...Very rarely do I purchase a third-party game, and only if I'm very impressed with the title...(Soul Calibur II, REmake, etc...)

[theRPGFreak]

"Eh? But anyways, I'm particularly picky about the games I buy, since I have a pretty small budget set aside for them...This leads me to buy the higher quality first-party titles...Very rarely do I purchase a third-party game, and only if I'm very impressed with the title...(Soul Calibur II, REmake, etc...)"
I agree with Bill. Sure we may know that the games are good (like Prince of Persia) but we only have so much time and money to enjoy them all. The reason that these games sell well as they do on the other consoles, is because the other systems dont have that many big hits like GC does.  

[thecubedcanuck]

"The reason that these games sell well as they do on the other consoles, is because the other systems dont have that many big hits like GC does. "

LMAO, this couldnt be any further from the truth.

[ThePerm]

Good comeback Omen! Well i'm defeated on that point.

[nolimit19]

the reason non-nintendo games dont sell well on the console is because most people who own a nitnendo console own it for nintendo games. i actually dont mean to buy only nintendo games, but it usually turns out like that. i dont know if i have purchased a non-exclusive game for hte cube (besides sports). i only have so much money, and i try to buy the best games with that.

also....ps2 has about 10 times the user base as the cube. so that explains why more games sell better on it. the xbox on the other hand (at least from what i have seen) has a bunch of so-so selling games. for instance the xbox will have 10 games that sell 500,000 copies and hte cube will have one game that sells 4 million copies and hte remaining 9 games will split the 1 million in sales. those arent exact numbers of any actual game, but just an example. it doesnt mean the one cube game is better than the 10 xbox games, it just means that nintendo fans have a similar taste in games.  

[KDR_11k]

I agree with Canuck here. According to GameRankings the XBox has about 10-20 more 85%-and-over games than the GC, the PS2 has about two times as many. Now, granted, some games are over 85% on one console and under it on another (and about 8 out of the top ten games for the XBox were multiplatform) and those reviews are always relative to the stuff available on the console, but I'd say that this is still an indication that the GC has the least amount of top titles. Of course, this also depends on your preferences, for me realism and sports games are filed under "ignore", while others might have FIFA or Pro Evolution Soccer as their favourite game. Damnit, I'm relativating myself. Anyway, the point is that you cannot say which console has more or better games since it all is subjective.
Consoles need a better way to distribute demos. Hell, I have bought Stratosphere (review score: 13%!) because I liked the demo. Also, console game prices need to be lowered (in Europe) to PC game levels, currently PC gamers laugh at console gamers for paying that much for their games.
More budget games would be nice as well. Why do games have to cost full price until the retailer decides it won't sell, no matter what and throws it for twenty Euros into the clearance bin?

[The Omen]

Bill, you don't think Prince of persia , a action/adventure/platforming game is the type of game Nintendo-ites historically buy, and enjoy?  Nintendo survived on that genre until others caught on.

[Bill Aurion]

PoP is just about the only action/adventure game I don't like...

[Kyosho]

I think reviews help somewhat.  Like rhoq, I read the pros and cons and the breakdowns from various sites to get a feel for the game.  I bought 1080 in hopes that it'd be the game I was expecting despite teh subpar reviews.  And that game (aside from the music) is a real disappointment for me.  Granted I should rent, but I'm one of those people that tries a game by buying it.  I was 6 when I had the NES system.  And now I look back, my tastes have ddefinitely changed as I'm much more selective what I buy.  It's an entirely different mentality when you have to buy games with your own money.

[SLIVER]

NO NINTENDO IS THE PROBLEM THE CURRENT MONEY MAKING HAS GOTTEN TO THEIR HEADS JUST LIKE THE BOXER ROY JONES JR. he wanted 100 million to box Mike Tyson, what an ASS.
WE SHOULD ALL EMAIL NINTENDO AND TELL THEM THAT WE WON'T BUY THE N5 UNLESS THE STRAIGHTEN UP I FOR ONE AM SICK OF THEIR SH*T.

Head fo Nintendo: " Our products should be Fun and Innotiative" "OH yeah we are ALL GAE"

[Draygaia]

I have to agree with you but not totally.  GCN fan members at some forums with terrible selection of Mods like I dunno totally hate the game, BG&E.  Well most of them.  When a thread was created a lot of them think they knew what a great nintendo game is and they just dismiss the damn thing.  It makes you want to tell them, "Play the damn game!"  But don't forget you also have these kids that look at the PS2 and xbox and look at them as the "cool thing to buy and the cool thing to do" some or most I believe buy a PS2/xbox just to increase their cool status in school with their friends.  I also believe some of them are sheep.

[CHEN]

Is that comment ban material? I mean the grammar alone.

[XchrononetX]

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but I just HAD to sign up just to reply to this braindead topic.  As you might have noticed just by my prelude sentence, I'm clearly dissatisfied with the opinions of the majority of this board.  This is simply PATHETIC!  If you really wanted to flip out over the loss of a developer, it should have been Rare.  Rare was proven talent, that made MANY AAA titles, as will as took older Nintendo franchises and translated them into 3-D flawlessly (DK64 anyone?).  SK only made two titles on the GCN, ED and MGS, and one of the two was a REMAKE!
There is an overall lack of knowledge as to whether the group was truly talented or not because it goes all to opinion, and my opinion states the ED was GOOD, not GREAT.  The game had many flaws, both in gameplay, and the implementation of the oh so experimental "sanity system".  This caused more problems than it did mess with my mind as it was clearly intended to do.  Give me Resident Evil any day!
MGS remake, I have yet to play, and although it is said that they have implemented elements from MGS2 Son's of Liberty as well as updated graphics, it was still the same game.  A remake of ANY game that was conceived during the Playstation era won't sell good simply because that means that everyone and their MOTHER has already played said title.  Also, remakes have never really been excepted well in the United States so GOD KNOWS!
Overall, the quality of SK is debatable, and it is still yet unknown who had the stronger footing in this decision.  I mean, seriously, they may have been second party, but you have no idea what type of stock Nintendo had in them, which means that they may not have had a choice.  Nobody knows, and yet you people are acting like this is dooms day!  Honestly, Zelda, Mario and Metroid are enough for me to at LEAST have a future Nintendo console, although I happen to own both the Cube and the PS2.  Personally, I don't see how this could be interperated as a bad thing at all, because you should be happy for other players who don't happen to have the finances to own the system that you own as well as the console that they have, yet share similar interests in game types.
Seriously, people, you have to stop freaking out, because if you do EVERY time Nintendo, or any company for that matter, makes a mistake, you WILL have an epileptic seizure.  Honestly, I expected more from a Nintendo community, as it does not represent the mass audience, and yet I get less.  My faith in Nintendo hasn't waned, but my faith in it's fans has.