Topic: On Punch-Out!! And Review Scores

[NWR_Neal]

Neal reflects on his 2009 10/10 review of Punch-Out!!

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/editorial/39479/on-punch-out-and-review-scores

In May 2009, I reviewed Punch-Out!! on Wii and gave it a 10/10. My logic at the time was that I had an absolute blast with the game and I couldn't think of a way anyone could make a better Punch-Out!! game. For years, that always made sense to me.

Going back and playing Punch-Out!! on Wii for the first time since 2009 (it’s out now on the Wii U eShop) reminded me why I was so head over heels for the Next Level Games-developed game. It's still, to this day, a masterpiece. The rhythmic fighting is just as engrossing and I can't help but grin like an idiot as each boxer animates in their grossly stereotypical way. Title Defense, which basically adds a second quest to the proceedings, is awesome, especially in the way it layers on top of the first run-through. Even the goofy two-player mode is still amusing.

Looking back at a review you wrote almost six years ago is weird under any circumstances. It's even weirder when that review carries that kind of lofty score. Not only was it the highest score possible, it was also the first 10/10 I ever doled out (Since then, I’ve given out 10s to Kirby’s Epic Yarn, Skyward Sword, Runner 2, and Wind Waker HD).

I adore Punch-Out!! on Wii. It's one of my favorite Wii games, and maybe even one of my favorite video games ever. When it comes down to it, though, my view of what a 10/10 game is has changed since 2009. I was 21 years old and still in college. I was News Editor here at the time; now I run the entire thing. At the time, I had never been to an E3; since then, I’ve gone to six. I could go on for days about what has changed about me and my life since 2009. I’m a vastly different person than I was then. While I still think this is the best Punch-Out!! game that could be made, that doesn’t translate to the highest score possible to me anymore.

So what does that say about review scores? To me, that says that they are of the moment. That they are fleeting. That they can change. A 10/10 or 7.5/10 today isn't the same as the same score five years from now. Your perspective can change. The score is just a number - the text is what matters.

When I go back and read my Punch-Out!! review, though, I don't disagree with anything I wrote. Heck, this article was going to be a re-review of Punch-Out!! until I realized I already said everything I wanted to say about the game. The only thing that changed in that time was the conclusion I drew from my text and experience. The fact that I'd score Punch-Out!! differently today has zero effect on my text from 2009. If you want to pick up the Wii U re-release, check out the review. While I take umbrage with the Past Neal who wrote that review (he’s still figuring out how to be a decent writer), the text hits what makes the game so incredible, even if that score might be a little inflated by Present Neal’s standards.

[Leo13]

So I'm planning on buying this game after work today, but I've never played it. If the text of your review would be the same are you willing to tell us what score 2015 Neal would give this game?

[latterdayrasta]

This is an interesting topic for discussion.  Would you still give Mario Kart 8 the same score you gave it?  I know not as much time has passed, but I like that you acknowledge that review scores are greatly influenced by the reviewer's attitudes.  And readers should always take that into account.

[NWR_Neal]

I'd likely give Punch-Out!! Wii a 9 now. I think.

And no, even after all the hell I went through after that MK8 review, I stand by my 7.5. However, the DLC is incredible.

[kokumaker]

Does the Wii U release make use of GamePad controls, or just Wiimote ones? That's what I'd like to know. I remember you could play it NES style, with a sideways Wiimote, but I don't remember if it was Classic Controller compatible.

[Ceric]

My biggest beef with the Wii Punch-Out is not that it isn't a good game.  Its that it felt when I was playing it more like a $20-30 eShop game.

[Khushrenada]

Burn the heretic!

[Ian Sane]

Punch-Out!! never clicked with me.  It felt like a by-the-numbers take on reviving a retro series.  Hell it had only ONE new character in it.  Gameplay wise it's a solid title but that's because it's just doing the gameplay of the original game.  If you want a glorified expansion pack to the NES game with a modern presentation, it's great, but if you wanted something innovative it had nothing for you.

In regards to review scores they're good as a quick reference.  It's funny that sites like GameRankings and Metacritic are usually crapped on by the "review scores are meaningless" crowd because that's the one context where they're quite useful.  Taken as an average you get a general idea of what people think of the game.  If I'm interested in a game and the average in the 60% range I'm going to start reading reviews to see why this game I was all hyped out about isn't doing well in reviews.  On the flip side if I notice a game that was off my radar is getting an average in the 90% range I'm going to look into it.

Take away the scores and how do I have any idea what the general opinion is without reading a hundred reviews?  I don't have time to read multiple reviews in full detail for every game out there.  With no scores I'm just going to ignore damn near anything that doesn't have enough of a marketing push to grab my attention otherwise.

Employee bonuses being based on Metacritic scores is stupid.  So is the idea that a score is 100% proof that a game is good or bad.  But they're not meaningless.  They serve a good purpose as a quick reference to get a general vibe on what critics are saying and then you can go in deeper if you want.

[Leo13]

My biggest beef with the Wii Punch-Out is not that it isn't a good game.  Its that it felt when I was playing it more like a $20-30 eShop game.

Perfect now it's $10 this week and $20 any time after that

[Mop it up]

I've always viewed review scores as a product of their time, especially when talking about media reviews that happened at a game's release or during the system's life, and not retroactive reviews. Standards and perspectives change from generation to generation, so when I see, say, a 9/10 for a Wii game, I consider it being compared to other Wii games and don't think it's saying the game is better than Wii U games with a lower score.

I apply this when I rate games as well, even retroactively. NES games I give scores like 9s and 10s are just compared to the abilities of the NES and its other games, I'm not comparing them to games on other systems and it doesn't mean I think those high-rated games are better than, say, SNES games I gave 8s.

[Louieturkey]

Thanks for posting this.  It reminded me that I wanted to buy the digital copy of Punch-Out.  So I went and did it.  I love that I don't have a Wii U and yet I can buy the eshop games anyways.

[Leo13]

If I'm interested in a game I'll read reviews from several different scores. If a reviewer gave it a lot score I'll read it to see if the things that bothered him will also bother me. If he gave it a high score I'll look to see if the things he liked will also appeal to me. There are 9 and 10 point games that don't speak to me at all and there are t and 6 point games that I've enjoyed, but the numbers are still helpful to me as I determine which reviews to read because as was said earlier I don't have time to read anywhere near them all

[Leo13]

Thanks for posting this.  It reminded me that I wanted to buy the digital copy of Punch-Out.  So I went and did it.  I love that I don't have a Wii U and yet I can buy the eshop games anyways.

Wait how did you but it if you don't own a Wii U?.

[Leo13]

Are you just buying codes on their website that you'll use when you do buy a Wii U?

[Leo13]

Wow, I'm downloading punch out and it makes me glad I had a 2TB external hard drive because it's almost 4GB and I'm sure Metroid prime trilogy will be bigger.

[Evan_B]

I see review scores as an easy way of informing those who don't want to read a review. There's nothing wrong with people who do that, of course, but I write reviews the same way I read them- to see if the reviewer makes valid points. This often goes beyond fundamental aspects and instead boils down to the tastes of a reviewer. While I can admit that Punch-Out is a well-made game or that Sakura Samurai has nice presentation, I can never recommend these titles because they aren't fun, to me. That is crucial information to give a reader because taste is a huge part of games and the personal experience is one of the key parts of the medium. That means, in my reviews, I lost the pros and cons of a title and then give an ultimate verdict, which is largely based on my experience. I do not tell my reader whether they should or should not buy the game- that's not my job- but if you go to my review archive, you can see if I recommend the game.

[azeke]

Does the Wii U release make use of GamePad controls, or just Wiimote ones? That's what I'd like to know. I remember you could play it NES style, with a sideways Wiimote, but I don't remember if it was Classic Controller compatible.

You can *maybe* hack it in on a homebrewed console, but your regular options are either wiimote or wiimote-nunchuck-balance board.

Speaking of -- i should give a second control option a whirl. Looks like a good work out.

Probably the only flaw in the Wii game is pointer controller menu. It's kinda of a hassle to navigate through options and constantly go from NES horizonthal style to pointing at the screen and back.

But otherwise it's amazing. And that music, man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-kIRD5zPQU

The moments where you recover from a sure knockout by a power of button mashing and Little Mac's willpower were amazing.

I only wish i could progress past Title Defense Popinski.

[yoshi1001]

One thing that's kinda bothered me about Wii Punch-Out is that there's no Hitmonchan, or any of Nintendo's other characters that wear boxing gloves like the kangaroo from Oracle of Seasons. It seems strange that they would include Donkey Kong and not pull from their other franchises.


I generally avoid giving scores entirely when I review things, instead opting to present the relevant facts so the viewer/reader is forced to decide on their own. There's nothing inherently wrong with review scores, I just prefer not to use them.

[Phil]

This revisit of your review, Neal, was a really nice read. Made me want to play the game and I never finished it, despite owning it. A double thank you to you!

[Ceric]

My biggest beef with the Wii Punch-Out is not that it isn't a good game.  Its that it felt when I was playing it more like a $20-30 eShop game.

Perfect now it's $10 this week and $20 any time after that

Exactly, its easy to recommend this game with the right price.

[Louieturkey]

Are you just buying codes on their website that you'll use when you do buy a Wii U?

That's pretty much it.  You can buy on their website by logging into your Nintendo Network ID or you can do it as a guest. As a guest you are emailed a code and then you input the code into the eshop once you have the system or you can gift it to someone who does have the system.

[Leo13]

Are you just buying codes on their website that you'll use when you do buy a Wii U?

That's pretty much it.  You can buy on their website by logging into your Nintendo Network ID or you can do it as a guest. As a guest you are emailed a code and then you input the code into the eshop once you have the system or you can gift it to someone who does have the system.

Cool does that mean you see a Wii U in your near future?

[Ceric]

OH wait.  That means we can gift codes.  Does everyone know what that means?
NWR Secret Santa can be Back this Year.  Oh yeah.

[pokepal148]

(Since then, I’ve given out 10s to Kirby’s Epic Yarn, Skyward Sword...

Neal has horrible taste in games confirmed.

[Leo13]

(Since then, I’ve given out 10s to Kirby’s Epic Yarn, Skyward Sword...

Neal has horrible taste in games confirmed.

That's funny cause I would have agreed with Neal on Skyward Sword and disagreed with him on Epic Yarn... That game was boring (in the WAY TOO EASY sense)