Topic: Aonuma: Ocarina of Time "Not Very Good" Nowadays

[NWR_DrewMG]

The Zelda chief reflects on the franchise benchmark and the evolution of the series since its 1998 release.
 http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=20397

 In a recent interview with Spanish-language site Revogamers.net, Zelda series creator Eiji Aonuma stated that he finds 1998's landmark title The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time to be "not very good" when compared to recent Zelda games.   The title, which regularly tops best-of lists, is widely regarded as one of the best games of all time, and currently sits atop the list of best reviewed games at Gamerankings.com with a 97.66% score.    

Aonuma elaborates, "If you play Ocarina of Time now, you realize that the game is not very good. There are moments in which it doesn't move as fast as it should, the graphics are not as good as they should have been, there are confusing parts... Now any Zelda game is technically superior. Everything goes much faster, much better. But in order to surpass Ocarina of Time what we need is to contribute a big change as experienced back then."    

Regarding the titles that have been released since Ocarina of Time, Aonuma said, "I believe that with each successive Zelda game we have surpassed all of these mistakes seen in Ocarina of Time. With each Zelda game I have tried adding elements that couldn't have been done at the time. It's like I've been trying to remake Ocarina of Time all these years. If you ask me if there will be a remake of Ocarina of Time I will tell you that I thought I was working on one all these years! But it must be that I haven't done a good enough job, I haven't reached the level I was hoping to achieve".    

In order to gain a better understanding of Aonuma's comments and their context, NWR Staff Writer Pedro Hernandez  translated the interview's key parts from Spanish to English.  His translation and commentary are below.    

   

On Creating Control Schemes    

"La experiencia con Spirit Tracks, tratando de mejorar un control que nos decían que era perfecto, nos ha servido para aprender a estrujarnos el coco", reconocía Aonuma, ergo en una línea similar,"con el juego de Wii queremos hacer lo mismo, exprimir al máximo las posibilidades que ofrece el control. Queremos conseguir la mejor forma de que el jugador controle el juego".    

Translation: With our experience with Spirit Tracks, trying to make a control scheme that was considered perfect even better, has helped us learned to truly brainstorm and work our minds. With the Wii game we want to do the same thing, squeeze to the fullest the possibilities the control scheme has to offer. We want to achieve the best control scheme for the player.    

Summary: Aonuma is saying that with each version they work hard to create a unique control scheme that fits the experience well, doing a lot of brainstorming sessions when trying to create a scheme that is better than a previous one.    

On Graphics Realism vs. Control Realism    

"Si en DS se eligió un estilo visual adecuado a la pantalla, y como en tantas ocasiones ha definido Aonuma, se ligó esencialmente a la jugabilidad y al control, es de asumir que el televisor del salón y el Wii MotionPlus obligatorio inviten a una experiencia mucho más atenta a las actuaciones de Link, así que "en Wii la cámara es una cámara mucho más real, los gráficos también son más realistas y el control, por lo tanto, deberá ser mucho más realista".    

Translation: If the DS was given an adequate visual style for its screens, as stated by Aonuma before, it was essentially mixed with the gameplay and control, so it's safe to assume that the living room TV and Wii MotionPlus invites players to an experience that pays more attention to Link's movements, so according to Aonuma, "On the Wii the camera is much more real, so are the graphics. So the controls must be real as well."    

Summary: This is talking about how Aonuma creates experiences that are appropriate for each version of Zelda, and states that since the graphics and camera of the Wii version will much more realistic than in previous versions, the controls must be realistic as well.    

On the Importance of Realism in Zelda Wii    

"A este respecto, Shigeru Miyamoto aseguró en el último Preguntas y Respuestas sobre los resultados de la compañía que "el nuevo Zelda para Wii irá mucho más allá [en el desafío y el valor auténtico de la serie] (...) Uno de los atractivos primordiales de Zelda es su unicidad. Por descontado estamos preparando gráficos asombrosos para los usuarios y su expectación ante una aventura de rol de tal envergadura", algo que no quita, de nuevo, la incidencia en "lo que es muy importante, el sentimiento realista, auténtico que los jugadores han venido experimentando; la sensación de haber estado en una aventura, de haber explorado territorios desconocidos, de haber resuelto el rompecabezas mediante prueba y error, ¡de haberse visto crecer a través de varias vivencias!" Unas palabras que casi parecen acordadas con el tutor actual de la serie, más aún cuando "el padre" reconoce que "un sentimiento personal de creatividad se está haciendo grande entre nosotros. Hemos reunido al equipo más ingenioso para Zelda DS, y queremos ser lo más creativos posible con Zelda Wii"."    

Translation: In this respect, Shigeru Miyamoto assured in a recent Q&A session that "the new Zelda for Wii will go beyond [the challenge and authentic value of the series]. Therefore, we are working on amazing graphics in order to meet the player's expectations and create a high quality adventure game", which doesn't take away the fact that "its very important to achieve a level of realism that players have been experiencing for a while: feeling that they have truly gone on an adventure, that they have explored unknown territories, to have solved puzzles via trial and error, to have grown as players thanks to the experience". "A personal feeling of creativity  is growing between us. We have gathered a great team for Zelda DS, and we hope to be as creative as possible for Zelda Wii".    

Summary: Miyamoto re-affirms that Zelda Wii will be very different, affirming that it's the realistic feel of the series that gives it its appeal, as recently reported by NWR.    

On the Mistakes Made in Ocarina of Time    

"creo que con los sucesivos juegos de Zelda he ido subsanando todos esos errores y deficiencias que veía en Ocarina of Time. En cada Zelda he intentado ir añadiendo cosas que en su momento no pude hacer. En realidad es como si hubiese estado haciendo un remake a lo largo de estos años", por lo tanto, concluía humildemente, "si me preguntas si va ha haber un remake de Zelda, te contesto que creía que había estado haciéndolo todo este tiempo... pero debe ser que no lo he hecho demasiado bien, no he llegado al nivel que se esperaba."    

Translation: "I believe that with each successive Zelda game we have surpassed all of these mistakes seen in Ocarina of Time. With each Zelda game I have tried adding elements that couldn't have been done at the time. It's like I've been trying to remake Ocarina of Time all these years. If you ask me if there will be a remake of OoT I will tell you that I thought I was working on one all these years! But it must be that I haven't done a good enough job, I haven't reached the level I was hoping to achieve".    

Summary:  Aonuma states that there WERE mistakes in Ocarina of Time.  He is saying that with every new Zelda game, he has strived to add elements that couldn't have existed in OoT due to time and hardware limitations.    

On the Technical Evolution of the Zelda Franchise    

"Si ahora juegas a Ocarina of Time, te das cuenta de que no es un juego tan, tan bueno. Hay momentos en los que no se mueve tan rápido como debería, los gráficos no son tan bonitos como deberían, hay partes algo confusas... Ahora cualquier Zelda es técnicamente superior. Todo va mucho más rápido, mucho mejor...",y pese a ello, Nintendo sabe cuál fue su mayor logro, y lo más difícil de mejorar tantos años después: "pero para superar aquel Zelda Ocarina of Time, lo que se necesita es aportar un cambio equiparable al que se vivió en aquel momento".    

Translation: "If you play Ocarina of Time now, you realize that the game is not very good. There are moments in which it doesn't move as fast as it should, the graphics are not as good as they should have been, there are confusing parts... Now any Zelda game is technically superior. Everything goes much faster, much better. But in order to surpass Ocarina of Time what we need is to contribute a big change as experienced back then."    

Summary:  This is the origin of the "Ocarina of Time is not that good" comment.  Aonuma states that as the Zelda games continue through time, they have become more and more technologically sound.  In order to surpass the greatness of Ocarina of Time, a big change is needed similar to the change that occurred with Ocarina of Time.    

On Working with Shigeru Miyamoto    

"nuestras formas de ver las cosas se están empezando a parecer muchísimo, aunque me queda muchísimo para llegar a su nivel", confesaba entre risas después de un halago sincero: "Miyamoto es directamente un genio, su talento es innato, y yo todo lo que sé hacer lo he tenido que ir aprendiendo muy poquito a poco. Y me ha costado mucho, no tengo ningún talento natural". Cual niño que enseña su tarea a su seño favorita, "desde siempre, el momento en el que tengo que enseñarle mi trabajo para que me dé su opinión es un momento muy especial para mí".    

Translation: Our ways of seeing things are beginning to feel similar, though there's still a lot to do before I reach his level. Miyamoto is a genius, his talent is unmatched, and everything I know I have learned little by little.  And it has cost me a lot to accept that I don't have any natural talent. Since always, the moment in which I have to show my work to Miyamoto so he gives me his opinion is always a special moment for me.    

Summary: Aonuma clearly has much respect for Miyamoto, and always looks forward to hearing Miyamoto's opinion on his work.    

The next entry in the Zelda series, The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks, launches Dec. 7 in North America.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Well geez, Zelda as a whole is just "not very good" ever since Wii Sports came out.

[GearBoxClock]

I do agree that OoT definitely hasn't aged as well as some people like to think, it did create a revolution in game design. Hopefully the next Zelda causes some sort of new standard for motion controls, at the very least.

[ShyGuy]

Oh man. Aonuma is a graphics whore. /joke

[NWR_Lindy]

Alternate title for this story:

World to Aonuma: You're Just Not Good Enough

[NWR_DrewMG]

Having just replayed OoT within the past 4 months, I would say that it actually holds up better than I remember.

[NWR_insanolord]

It's sad; he doesn't have anywhere near enough talent to make something as good as a Miyamoto game so he lashes out in jealousy.

[MegaByte]

This is one of those cases where it's a shame that the N64 used carts.  This meant that they had to over-compress the textures, leading to a muddy mess on modern systems.  Final Fantasy 9 looked quite nice on my PC (and the reduction of load times made it playable) due to the fact that Square included ridiculous resolution textures (which also explains the need for four discs).

[King of Twitch]

*tears robe*

CRUCIFY HIM

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

I'm surprised at the penultimate comment: '...and it has cost me a lot to accept that I don't have any natural talent'.
It's possible that he's being his own worst critic in a really hyperbolic manner, but it's still strange to read that. Aonuma has been doing brilliantly since he took command of EAD Group 3. I just hope he's got faith in the new ideas he and his team are putting in Zelda Wii.

[KDR_11k]

Looks to me like most fans don't consider OOT beaten yet so maybe he shouldn't dismiss it so lightly. I bet Miyamoto thought Mario 64 has beaten SMB3, too for the longest time.

[NWR_Lindy]

It honestly must be tough to work under Miyamoto sometimes.  I'm sure he can make even the best designers on Nintendo's staff look like complete idiots if he so chooses.

I picture him picking up an X-Wing fighter using only his mind, and then throwing it at Aonuma.

[Tansunn]

@MegaByte - Actually it's all the FMV that required disc space, not the textures.

@Killer_Man_Jaro - I don't think he's saying that he doesn't have talent, just that it's not an innate trait, and he's had to study and learn to get to the level he's at now.

As for Ocarina of Time, I tend to agree about it not being so good.  Other games in the series, I can go back and play and have a lot of fun doing so, particularly LttP.  OoT, however, was great on the first playthrough, good on the followup playthrough to find the stuff I missed the first time, and kinda lost a good bit of its fun factor for me after that.

[KDR_11k]

Wind Waker and Twilight Princess had some serious issues. TP was especially decried for lacking real new ideas, they really need to shake Zelda up if they want to surprise gamers again.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

It needs to be the first Zelda to surprise Grandmas.

[Luigi Dude]

Misleading title for the lose.

Seriously, all Aonuma is saying is from a technical standpoint Ocarina of Time isn't as good as it once was, which he's 100% right.  If you compare Ocarina of Time to Wind Waker and Twilight Princess in terms of controls and movement, both games are much better.

It's just like comparing the NES Original to Link to the Past.  The original's controls have aged poorly as well when you compare it to Link to the Past which is better in every way.

Hell, the NES and N64 are both very similar in the fact that games from both systems have not aged very well.  Yes, some of the games are still great, but when you compare certain things like their controls and design to later games on the SNES and Gamecube, the later games pull it off much better and as a result age much better.

It goes like this, in 20 years from now if you have someone who's never played a Zelda play both Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker/Twilight Princess, they're probably going to prefer Wind Waker/Twilight Princess because it controls better.  Just like how I've seen younger people play the Original Zelda for the first time and Link to the Past and they always prefer Link to the Past because of it's better controls as well.

It's not hard to see what Aonuma's talking about since I've seen this exact same thing first hand.

[KDR_11k]

When I grabbed the NES Classics version of Zelda 1 for the GBA (never had a NES) I was actually surprised how well it held up and how much of it was already in place. I expected something as rotten and shoddy as Metroid but Zelda was still fun and playable and everything.

[Enner]

Darn, Luigi Dude has said my thoughts already.

I played Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time at roughly the same time due to the pre-order offer. While I can see how much Ocarina has influenced games, Wind Waker is a better game to control, look, and listen to. That's probably the full camera control with the C-Stick talking.

I wonder if most of Nintendo's developers share the thoughts of Aonuma. I don't think it is out of the question given that it is said that Nintendo games are built game first and story second.

[KDR_11k]

Yeah, I liked Wind Waker more too but there were massive flaws in the game, I believe Ocarina didn't have such big problems in its time.

[Caterkiller]

Wow, we sure are getting allot of Zelda info lately havn't we? Even if it is allot of the same things said in different ways.

I got really excited for this interview! Them wanting to make it realistic graphicly and control wise really gets me pumped. I imagine it will look something like TP but with better graphics over all. But what I really hope for is just a slightly different realistic art style. How that would look I have no idea. I just don't want to look at a screen shot of this and not be able to tell the difference between it and TP, kinda like Galaxy and Galaxy 2. Though I do understand they run on the same engine and everything, Just seems like for the last million titles every Zelda has looked different from the last.

[MoronSonOfBoron]

The core point that must be remembered here is that Aonuma mentions the need to create a Zelda game where a "big change" is experienced much like there was with OoT. When you link this to previous comments about how the next Zelda game is a "fundamental change", and his comments here about adding new things to each iteration of the series, you can see that the poor fellow is trying his damn hardest to "innovate" with the franchise. He's honest enough to say that they've gone to great lengths to refine the technical elements of OoT that were lacking, but that the real magic that keeps OoT aloft in gamers' opinions is the "big change" in gameplay.

And here's the thing: much as we might bark and yell about the greatness of OoT, what would a young'un think? In five words: "muddy textures, clunky control, jaggies"

The revolution that OoT brought with it is now taken for granted. The form and structure of the 3D adventure is a cash cow for Big Games, and has been endlessly replicated, evolved, and reimagined since OoT's release. Certainly, it is special for what it did at the time, but in the future we will need something fundamentally new to reinvigorate the series... or it could go the way of Star Fox.

[Ian Sane]

With videogames so much is based on the context in which a title is released.  In a vacuum sequels are usually superior to their predecessor.  But they don't have the same impact because they're just refining an idea that in predecessor was brand new.  This is why a game like Metroid, which is a actually a pretty lousy game, is regarded as a classic.  In the time it was released it did things that were unique and groundbreaking.

I'm glad Aonuma clearly acknowledges this.  Twilight Princess just REAKS of someone trying to do Ocarina of Time better than Ocarina of Time.  Well it DOES do it better, but as a result it's stale to those that played the original.  It's an ideal first Zelda for new fans though.  When a sequel to a popular series gets announced often fans will say "I want this" and they rattle off a bunch of stuff that was done in the previous games that they like.  That's not what they REALLY want.  When people say "I want Yoshi" in a new Mario game they don't really want Yoshi.  They THINK they do but what they really want is to see something as creative as Yoshi was in Super Mario World.  Aonuma seems to get this.

Though I do have some concern.  Sometimes when someone tries so hard to be innovative they release something that feels forced.  Super Mario Sunshine would be the ideal example.  They were trying so hard to be original with FLUDD but the problem was the idea wasn't very good.  But they later succeeded with Super Mario Galaxy's planets design.  Hopefully in an attempt to be creative Aonuma doesn't come up with something that's creative but not very fun.

Honestly I think just not having the game in Hyrule would do it for me.  What I really didn't like about Twilight Princess was that it felt like I had seen everything before I got there.

[MegaByte]

@MegaByte - Actually it's all the FMV that required disc space, not the textures.

Okay, it was FMV that made it require FOUR discs, but there's no way the textures from that game could have fit on even the largest N64 cart.

[NWR_Lindy]

Misleading title for the lose.

How is it misleading?  It's a direct quote from Aonuma.  Misleading would be "Aonuma Says Ocarina of Time Sucks".

[EasyCure]

Misleading title for the lose.

How is it misleading?  It's a direct quote from Aonuma.  Misleading would be "Aonuma Says Ocarina of Time Sucks".

it was misleading to me because all i saw was "Aunuma: Ocarina of Time" and i clicked the thread thinking there was a fan-made remake of OoT where an Aunuma model replaces link, Perin Kaplan is Zelda, Miyamoto is Rauru and Reggie is Ganon (and you never get to win against him).