Topic: Zelda: Does it need to change?

[Stogi]

What are you talking about? Her poop probably smells like cupcakes.

[stevey]

In one year all of you will be bitching about how Zelda changed too much and how much you all hate the concept of the female hero and the new FPA co-op gameplay and the hidden hawtness minigame.

Mark my words! The Legend of Zelda:The adventure of Malon and Girl Link is coming!

Repent now, for it is good!

[Dirk Temporo]

Yes, f***ing yes. Goddamn. I posted this on another forum, which drew a lot of ire from butthurt fanboys, but to hell with them. Playing the same game over and over and over again is NOT fun.

A. Either change the time period it's set in, or get the **** out of Hyrule. The only thing I liked about Majora's Mask was the fact that it WASN'T in Hyrule, because I'M FUCKING SICK OF HYRULE. Also, that was one of the reasons I loved Wind Waker.
B. Voice acting, dear god. It's 2008, and may very well be 2010 by the time the next Zelda comes out. There is NO EXCUSE for no voice acting.
C. Something NEW and INTERESTING for Link. Maybe give him an axe instead of a sword, or a polearm or something. Give him a musket instead of a bow. ANYTHING.
D. On second thought, even better than C, have Link NOT be the main character. Either have him not in the game, or maybe be old and wise, and act as a sort of mentor for the main character.

[nitsu niflheim]

I wouldn't mind seeing Zelda change

Hide in her room.

[Chozo Ghost]

One thing they could do with the Zelda franchise is have it set in the realm of the Twili where Midna and Zant and all those dark beings come from. Its a whole other parallel dimension which could probably make a cool game where you play directly as Midna or maybe some Twili equivalent of Link.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I wouldn't mind seeing Zelda change

Hide in her room.

That's the kind of stealth the series needs.

but not yet, cuz nintendo still insists she's a man

[Mikintosh]

B. Voice acting, dear god. It's 2008, and may very well be 2010 by the time the next Zelda comes out. There is NO EXCUSE for no voice acting.

No. I can name ten to fifteen games off the top of my head that have been ruined by bad voice acting, and I don't want Zelda to be on of them. However, Animal Crossing-esque gibberish (like Midna had) would probably be an improvement.

[Michael8983]

I think SOME voice acting would be appropriate.
There was a lengthy scene in Twilight Princess where the Princess herself literally silently mouthed the words along with the text. It was absolutely ridiculous. Link should NEVER talk and most of the characters in the game should stick to text but when a major supporting character has a lengthy, dramatic speech in a cut-scene I do think quality voice-acting would really add to the mood.

[Mikintosh]

I think SOME voice acting would be appropriate.
There was a lengthy scene in Twilight Princess where the Princess herself literally silently mouthed the words along with the text. It was absolutely ridiculous. Link should NEVER talk and most of the characters in the game should stick to text but when a major supporting character has a lengthy, dramatic speech in a cut-scene I do think quality voice-acting would really add to the mood.

But that doesn't work. Either they all talk (except Link), but none of them do. I think this was simpler back in the N64 days, when they didn't show the characters mouths moving. I'm sorry, but I just find nearly all voice acting in video games incredibly cheesy (the exceptions being the Halo series, some anime-based games, and Portal, possibly Kingdom Hearts), and Zelda's mix of modern day dialogue and old English would make the series sound like the dialogue from the Star Wars prequels, and no one wants that.

[ThePerm]

why not do a non zelda zelda game, call it Mystical Ninja or something



i like the continent ideas, and the underwater city ideas. I think they should implement a more Castle Crasher like system for leveling up. The more fights your in that end in an enemy's death the more experience you get..nothing like turn based bullshit though. After you beat a level you get to pick which part of your character you want to update.

And weapons...lots of weapons! Link needs a lot of weapons to screw around with. Links main weapons have always been: Sword, Bow, Stick, Slingshot, boomerang, Grappling Hook. If they can add like different versions of those weapons to earn then they've just improved the game tremendously. There iss usually two different weapons for say the hookshot or a couple of different arrows for the bow. What if they had like ten different bows to earn, bunches of different swords, boomerangs that do different things, grappling hooks that have ever increasing distances or surface attaching ability, different shields, more different armor(i was so disappointed in the third armor on tp)

[KDR_11k]

B. Voice acting, dear god. It's 2008, and may very well be 2010 by the time the next Zelda comes out. There is NO EXCUSE for no voice acting.

Be careful what you wish for. Viddeogames (especially from Japan) are known for having voice acting so bad you'll want to stab yourself. Also Nintendo is very lazy, voice acting will remain in English for all other territories and people will wonder why.

More weapons, more RPG, etc isn't really what I think Zelda needs, it just needs equipment that feels fresh again (either by having a PH-like mechanics change that makes them act in new ways or just different equipment). Of course fresh equiopment also means it shouldn't just be a "sprite swap" for old equipment (e.g. hookshot and grapple hook are effectively the same thing as would anything else be if it was used to aim at spots on walls and attach to them). That along with levels that feel fresh again. New ideas in the content. OOT wasn't really better than later Zeldas but it's regarded highly because it changed so many things about the game that the feeling of surprise was strong. Wind Waker reused many parts of OOT and TP was pretty much a remake (it had new mechanics like the wolf but the result felt the same anyway). TP was way higher quality and such but since there was little feeling of surprise the game was generally considered weaker. Exploration doesn't really work when you already know what's behind the corner...

[Stogi]

Exploration doesn't really work when you already know what's behind the corner...

That sums my feelings up perfectly. That's why I proposed what I did, not because of the quality of the idea, but rather because it would put in place a system that allows for surprises behind every corner!

[KDR_11k]

Dunno, I don't think of it as exploration if the story tells me to go around that corner...

[Stogi]

The balance can be made easily. The story can tell you to go find something, but not tell you where it is. It actually doesn't even have to tell you what to find either.

[Spak-Spang]

Zelda does not need to change.  The core gameplay and design are brilliant. 

All it needs is some a coat a fresh paint and refining of the experience.

1)Begin with making the traditional Zelda puzzles more complex.  Instead of just using 1 item to solve puzzles, why not create dungeons that require you to use all the items you have acquired throughout your adventure to solve...and some puzzles requiring multiple items to solve.  Something more like Zach and Wiki (but not that extreme) would be nice. 

2)More fluid fighting.  Link needs to become much more aggressive and fluid as a fighter...look at games like Prince of Persia...there is no reason why we can't have more diversity in attacks...without making the game too complex in button mashing.  Also, the items need to be more flexible while attacking.

3)New Environments and new items.  An underwater City would be amazing...but what about exploring more lavish Goron environments with a Lord of the Rings style underground city.  Finally, with these new environments try to put some history into them...perhaps the ruins of a dungeon held a great battle and the landscape is still scarred by the battle.  Perhaps a lost temple is covered completely by vines and plant life....or the Dungeon boss escaped and tore up the place.  I mean if Metroid can have atmospheric environments that tell a story so should Zelda.

What needs to change is presentation...everything else is perfect still.

[Nick DiMola]

What Spak said.

[Stogi]

While I agree, I still feel that it needs more than just better puzzles and atmosphere.

[Bill Aurion]

A. Either change the time period it's set in, or get the **** out of Hyrule. The only thing I liked about Majora's Mask was the fact that it WASN'T in Hyrule, because I'M FUCKING SICK OF HYRULE. Also, that was one of the reasons I loved Wind Waker.

Considering the locations change and don't have any real comparison to other games, this complaint is moot...

B. Voice acting, dear god. It's 2008, and may very well be 2010 by the time the next Zelda comes out. There is NO EXCUSE for no voice acting.

Ugh, get out presentation nerd...Voice-acting is the most worthless and least important addition to any game

C. Something NEW and INTERESTING for Link. Maybe give him an axe instead of a sword, or a polearm or something. Give him a musket instead of a bow. ANYTHING.

Yeah, uh, that's what his secondary items are for?  I'd rather him carry around things like this (Ball-and-chain, anyone?) in his pants...

D. On second thought, even better than C, have Link NOT be the main character. Either have him not in the game, or maybe be old and wise, and act as a sort of mentor for the main character.

WHY NOT JUST MAKE A WHOLE NEW IP!?

Begin with making the traditional Zelda puzzles more complex.  Instead of just using 1 item to solve puzzles, why not create dungeons that require you to use all the items you have acquired throughout your adventure to solve...and some puzzles requiring multiple items to solve.  Something more like Zach and Wiki (but not that extreme) would be nice.

I'm sure that's something the Zelda team has trouble with, considering they have to find a perfect balance in puzzle difficulty...Remember, it's not just a game for hardcore Zelda fans...

More fluid fighting.  Link needs to become much more aggressive and fluid as a fighter...look at games like Prince of Persia...there is no reason why we can't have more diversity in attacks...without making the game too complex in button mashing.  Also, the items need to be more flexible while attacking.

Ehhhh...I don't like the comparison to Prince of Persia, but from Twilight Princess you can see that they HAVE been expanding the combat...I'm not really sure what you mean by "fluid"...

I feel the mechanics in every Zelda game change enough that it's still worth going back and playing each and every one of them...That is, unless you think that the sailing in Wind Waker is comparable to the wolf mechanics in Twilight Princess, or that the dimension-shifting in Link to the Past is the same as the season-changing in Oracle of Seasons, etc, etc...Really the only things that stay the same are the main characters (or rather, just Link sometimes), the battling (which is still being shaken up enough to stay fresh), and the "find a new item in a dungeon to take the boss on with" mechanic, which should NEVER be gotten rid of because it's a Zelda staple...Obviously new items and environments will appear, and gameplay mechanics will obviously change a bit considering the Zelda team will utilize the functions of the Wiimote...No, Zelda does NOT need voice-acting, anyone who says so needs to just go sit their ass in front of a movie like Metal Gear Solid 4...No, Zelda does NOT need orchestrated music, midi is just fine...No, Zelda does NOT need to be set in some far-off land, considering the environments are different enough in every game ANYWAY (even if they are supposedly the same Hyrule)...

In the end, the game just needs to be fun, which the Zelda team has never had a problem doing...Looking forward to what they come up with next...

[EasyCure]

I agree with some of the things Bill said but there's a few I don't, but mainly because he's coming off as an angry fanboy (not that theres anything wrong with that).

When someone says maybe link shouldn't be the main character and you 'shout' that they might as well make a new IP, I don't find that fair really. I don't know who was quoted there, but perhaps you should get more ideas out of them before outright dismissing them.

 Why couldn't Nintendo make a Zelda game where Link wasn't the main character? That doesn't mean Link won't be in it in some way, so why should this idea be discarded. Maybe the poster that suggested it meant something else, perhaps why not change up who Link is. Whether you're the fanboy that thinks theres a timeline or the ones that think timeline doesnt matter because the Legend of Zelda is a re-telling of the same tale everytime, we all agree on one thing: Link is the embodiment of The Hero, right? Does that mean he always has to have the green tunic though? The way I see it, both WW and TP would of felt exactly the same if you played the game with Link in his PJ's/Rancher outfits respectively.

In that one aspect, I feel you're the one being close minded here. When it comes to things like voice acting though.. that i agree with. I still remember the first time i played MegaMan 8 and finally heard Mega Man talk... my heart still hurts from that             /sigh

[Bill Aurion]

When someone says maybe link shouldn't be the main character and you 'shout' that they might as well make a new IP, I don't find that fair really. I don't know who was quoted there, but perhaps you should get more ideas out of them before outright dismissing them.

It was Dirk, so I can dismiss all I want... =)

Why couldn't Nintendo make a Zelda game where Link wasn't the main character? That doesn't mean Link won't be in it in some way, so why should this idea be discarded.

I don't mind playing as another character for a short period of time (like we did as Medli and Makar in Wind Waker), but completely negating Link would be like making a Mario game where you don't play as Mario...In the end, all you are really doing is exchanging a character model, and it doesn't (or rather, shouldn't) change the gameplay, so it's a pointless attempt to feel "fresh"...

[Nick DiMola]

I'd still love to see a side game where you play as Ganondorf.

[EasyCure]

When someone says maybe link shouldn't be the main character and you 'shout' that they might as well make a new IP, I don't find that fair really. I don't know who was quoted there, but perhaps you should get more ideas out of them before outright dismissing them.

It was Dirk, so I can dismiss all I want... =)

Oh ok

J/k Dirk, i barely know you

Why couldn't Nintendo make a Zelda game where Link wasn't the main character? That doesn't mean Link won't be in it in some way, so why should this idea be discarded.

I don't mind playing as another character for a short period of time (like we did as Medli and Makar in Wind Waker), but completely negating Link would be like making a Mario game where you don't play as Mario...In the end, all you are really doing is exchanging a character model, and it doesn't (or rather, shouldn't) change the gameplay, so it's a pointless attempt to feel "fresh"...

Well the difference between Mario and Link is that Mario is always the same mario but link is never really the same link. A different setting with a different character (named Link or not) would make things feel fresh, if only on ONE level. I'll admit that alone this would be a "pointless attempt" but mixed with other elements, like new additions to gameplay (and yes, while keeping familiar ones that make Zelda, Zelda) it would indeed be fresh. As is, though, its at least a start.

I know many fans have thought about a Zelda game where you control Princess Zelda (or her as Sheik) but would it really be significant if all she did was shoot arrows, use bombs, and toss boomerangs? Nope, you'd have to change the gameplay too (in her case use magic and/or acrobatics) so why wouldn't a new Link be any different?

I'm done now though, since I have no idea what Dirk meant when he said what he did. If he meant new character with same setting, then I'm with you Bill. I was just arguing for arguments sake

[Spak-Spang]

Bill:  I agree that the series has been moving in the right direction.

Combat has been expanded each game starting with Wind Waker. 

Also, the puzzles have gotten more elaborate.  But you don't have to make the puzzles more difficult to use more items.  Take Twilight Princess using the bombs and then the Gail Boomerang to solve puzzles was brilliant.

Stuff like that.

Now, I don't want Zelda to go all Prince of Persia...I was using that as an example.  I just feel that the combat can be enhanced more and more strategic.

I really don't care about making the world bigger or smaller...I just want it more dense with things to do...and for the land to change.  Different enemies during different times and such.  I felt Twilight Princess had too much empty space in it. 

[Bill Aurion]

I really don't care about making the world bigger or smaller...I just want it more dense with things to do...and for the land to change.  Different enemies during different times and such.  I felt Twilight Princess had too much empty space in it. 

Agreed on both counts, though I guess all the empty space in TP was needed in order to make the horse worthwhile...

More sidequests is always a good thing, though, so hopefully they think about that (and also bring back the classic trade quest, which was sadly missing from TP)...

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

That stupid horse would so get killed in the first Zelda, tripping over octoroks and getting assaulted by jumping crabs.  Link would die after he falls off the horse and breaks his head on a rock.