Author Topic: Proper Chronology for Metroid / Samus?  (Read 9262 times)

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Offline theaveng

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Proper Chronology for Metroid / Samus?
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2003, 06:22:13 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ruby_onix
"FLAW: If Samus wiped out all the aliens in Metroid 2... except for that baby... how come she found Metroids in Metroid Prime? That means she discovered the Metroid Prime planet *before* she killed all the Metroids... before Metroid 2."

The Space Pirates apparently stole one single Metroid from the original SR-388 research team. It multiplied when exposed to Beta rays. Now the Space Pirates had a limitless supply of them.
Okay.  Well then, why did Samus say in Super Metroid, "I wiped out all the Metroids," when she knew some still lived on the Metroid Prime planet?

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Offline ruby_onix

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Proper Chronology for Metroid / Samus?
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2003, 08:16:56 PM »
"Well, guess what if Metroid Prime took place after Metroid II that little opening intro would have still been messed up wouldn't it."

Nope. I mentioned this earlier in the thread. Samus's "log" (for lack of a better word) at the start of Super Metroid wasn't a complete battle record. It was a very short history of her experience with Metroids and the Metroid Hatchling in her posession.

She says she first fought the Metroids on Zebes, and next fought them on SR-388, where she picked up the baby Metroid. She seems to be just talking about the story of the baby Metroid, so she doesn't need to talk about anything that happened after she found it (until she did something noteworthy with it, at Ceres), but the way it was worded eliminated the option of Metroid Prime (unless MP didn't have any Metroids in it, but it did).

The idea that her trip to Ceres was "immediate" only exists in our heads (I used to think it was immediate too), like the stuff we've all imagined about Samus's personality.


"She didn't leave without finishing the job."

The Galactic Federation sent a science ship to SR-388, and they caught a Metroid. The Space Pirates stole it.

After Samus dealt with the Space Pirates, the Feds sent another science vessel to SR-388 and never heard from it again.

The Feds then sent a rescue ship to SR-388, and it was lost too.

Then the Feds sent the military into SR-388, and they were all wiped out.

The Feds decided that Metroids were too dangerous to exist, and asked Samus to exterminate every last one of them.

They didn't ask Samus to escort a science team, or bring back samples, or anything like that. Her mission was to wipe out everything. Any way you cut it, she dropped her mission (which would be her option, as a bounty hunter, not a soldier). Either she switched to the dangerous plan midway-through (against the direct wishes of the Galactic Federation) to make a couple scientists happy, or she spared a life first (and took it into her protection, because she knew the Feds would send someone else to finish the job if she didn't) and made some scientists happy as a secondary afterthought.


"To quote you, "You're making assumptions about her character. Ones I (for one) don't agree with." Your entire post there is about personal opinions that exist only in your head. They weren't stated any where in the games so how does it make your assumptions about her character better than mine. Hell, I wasn't even making assumptions. I was only going by what's in the games."

My assumptions aren't more valid than yours. But you said that there can't be any time between Metroid 2 and Super Metroid, and that my therory on how it could (which dealt with Samus's personality and motivations) was wrong.


"Hahaha... My point was is that you can't put another game between Metroid II and Super Metroid because we know of Samus whereabouts during that time."

Oh, okay. I thought you were using the "How can there be Metroids if they were all killed in Metroid 2?" thing. My bad. You're talking about the time between Metroid 2 and Super Metroid.


"Umm, when did I say that we need Metroid on SR388 to get metroids? NEVER. In fact Metroid Prime addresses that whole idea because the pirates had extra metroids that they had on space ships and stuff. Samus wasn't aware of this till sometime after she landed on Tallon IV.

Yeah. That was what I thought you were getting wrong.


"However it's obvious from Super Metroid that the space pirates no longer had a personal supply of metroids and since SR388 didn't have any that's why they had to steal the hatchling."

Not neccassarily. They could have stolen it because they wanted to keep information about the Metroids (the Space Pirates potentially ultimate weapons) and their possible weaknesses out of Galactic Federation hands.


Here's the basics of what I'm trying to say.

1: Retro made a fantastic game in Metroid Prime, but they made at least one plot hole by putting it exactly where they did in the Metroid timeline (between 1 and 2).

2: Looking carefully at the starting of Super Metroid, I think there could be an opening for at least one adventure between Metroids 1 and 2, but not if they involve Metroids in it.

3: There could be an opening for a game with Metroids between Metroid 2 and 3, but only if they expand the timeframe beyond what most of us have assumed, and make some not-unreasonable clarifications to Samus's motivations and priorities. The adventure can't have anything to do with the Metroid Hatchling Samus got at the end of Metroid 2.

4: I wonder what would happen to the Fusion-Suit Samus of Metroid 4 if she were exposed to Beta rays?

5: Random picture of Manga Samus!
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Offline Gibdo Master

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Proper Chronology for Metroid / Samus?
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2003, 08:49:54 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ruby_onix
"Well, guess what if Metroid Prime took place after Metroid II that little opening intro would have still been messed up wouldn't it."

Nope. I mentioned this earlier in the thread. Samus's "log" (for lack of a better word) at the start of Super Metroid wasn't a complete battle record. It was a very short history of her experience with Metroids and the Metroid Hatchling in her posession.

She says she first fought the Metroids on Zebes, and next fought them on SR-388, where she picked up the baby Metroid. She seems to be just talking about the story of the baby Metroid, so she doesn't need to talk about anything that happened after she found it (until she did something noteworthy with it, at Ceres), but the way it was worded eliminated the option of Metroid Prime (unless MP didn't have any Metroids in it, but it did).
Going by what you are saying then why would she need to mention Metroid Prime. It doesn't have anything to do with the hatchling whether it takes place before or after Metroid II.

I really don't think it's that big of a deal in the end. All things considered I think Retro did a pretty good job with fitting Prime in the story line. I just don't think it's logical that Samus wouldn't have immediately went to the space station. It has nothing to do with her personality either. It just makes better sense that way. Retro put it in a good spot because there wasn't any overlapping story with Metroid and Metroid II. There was nothing that said that this or that occurred between those two games. At least nothing that said Samus was here or there anyway. With Metroid II and Super Metroid though we know that between those two games Samus took the metroid hatchling to the space station at some point. The only real problem with where Metroid Prime is is the intro for Super Metroid. Despite how you feel about it you would have had that same problem whether the game took place before or after Metroid II though. Retro placed Prime where they did to avoid causing problems with Samus taking the hatchling to the space station. Apparently they too felt it made sense that Samus would take it there immediately therefore giving no time to put another game there and they also realized that putting any game before Super Metroid would cause problems with the intro so that it didn't really matter.  

The important thing is is that Prime doesn't cause any problems with the other games stories. It doesn't cause a problem with Metroid, Metroid II, Super Metroid, or Metroid Fusion. It only causes a problem with the intro for Super Metroid which was just a way to help the gamer understand what had happened in the last two games and how that affected what was happening in Super Metroid. And the only real problem with it is that it's just not mentioned because the game wasn't going to be made for another 8 years.
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Offline JoeFalco

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Proper Chronology for Metroid / Samus?
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2003, 09:59:51 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: ruby_onix
4: I wonder what would happen to the Fusion-Suit Samus of Metroid 4 if she were exposed to Beta rays?



You would have Metroid 5: Attack of the Clones    
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Offline ruby_onix

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Proper Chronology for Metroid / Samus?
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2003, 10:16:09 PM »
"Going by what you are saying then why would she need to mention Metroid Prime. It doesn't have anything to do with the hatchling whether it takes place before or after Metroid II."

It's the specific wording. She's talking about the Hatchling in that log entry, so she doesn't have to cover everything that's happened to her recently, but she does specifically say that the first place she fought Metroids was Zebes, and the second was SR-388.

Now after Metroid Prime, the first place she fought Metroids was Zebes, and the third was SR-388.


Actually, now that I think about it, if Metroid Prime 2 were to take place right after Metroid Prime, and involve something about Samus contracting some sort of short term amniesia...
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Offline theaveng

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Proper Chronology for Metroid / Samus?
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2003, 07:21:48 AM »
I'm asking my question again, because no one's provided a good answer yet.

Also please LEARN TO USE QUOTING.  Reading messages with "Metroid did this or that" surrounded by quotes is extremely hard on the eyes.  Please use [ Q] and [ /Q].
Quote

Originally posted by: ruby_onix"FLAW: If Samus wiped out all the aliens in Metroid 2... except for that baby... how come she found Metroids in Metroid Prime? That means she discovered the Metroid Prime planet *before* she killed all the Metroids... before Metroid 2."

The Space Pirates apparently stole one single Metroid from the original SR-388 research team. It multiplied when exposed to Beta rays. Now the Space Pirates had a limitless supply of them.
Okay.  Well then, why did Samus say in Super Metroid, "I wiped out all the Metroids," when she knew some still lived on the Metroid Prime planet?

 

Offline ruby_onix

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Proper Chronology for Metroid / Samus?
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2003, 11:16:44 AM »
I didn't answer that one because I wasn't sure how to answer it.

Something like that can only be said at some point when she thought the Metroids were all gone for good. Metroid Prime tosses a monkeywrench into it.

Unless she was just talking about SR-388.

Something like "I went to SR-388 and wiped out all the Metroids (on SR-388)."
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Offline Gibdo Master

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Proper Chronology for Metroid / Samus?
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2003, 05:07:20 PM »
Metroid Prime 2 will probably answer that question.  
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