Topic: Proper Chronology for Metroid / Samus?

[theaveng]

Metroid Prime
Original Metroid
Super Metroid

Is that correct, storywise?  Where does Metroid Fusion fit?

[Darc Requiem]

Metroid Fusion is the 4th game in the series. It comes after Super Metroid.

Darc Requiem

[mouse_clicker]

Metroid
Metroid Prime
Metroid II: The Return of Samus
Super Metroid
Metroid Fusion

That is the proper chronology for Metroid games.

[BlkPaladin]

Accually Prime comes after Metroid 2. Because Samus learns of the rebuilt base on... (Sorry I forgot the name of the planet in the orginal and Super...)

[Hostile Creation]

Zebes, isn't it?

[Gibdo Master]

Why do people have such a hard time with the Metroid storyline. We aren't talking about Zelda here. Hell, the entire damn storyline at the time was all laid out nice and neatly in Super Metroid.

This is the order they go in:

Metroid
Metroid Prime
Metroid II: The Return of Samus
Super Metroid (Metroid 3)
Metroid Fusion (Metroid 4)

If anyone would have bothered to scan the computers in Metroid Prime it would have been made clear to them that the game takes place directly after Metroid. Just reading the manual alone should have told you that much. It talks about what happened on Zebes during Metroid and how that follows directly into the events of Metroid Prime.

Also for those of you wondering if you watch the in game intro for Super Metroid it says, "1994-Nintendo-Presents-Metroid 3". That's why in the in game intro for Metroid Fusion it is called Metroid 4 since it is a direct sequel to Super Metroid (Metroid 3). They couldn't have called Metroid Fusion Metroid 5 since the games would have went from Metroid 3 to Metroid 5.

And BlkPaladin I hope that was a joke because you apparently don't know what you are talking about. There is no way Metroid Prime could have taken place between Metroid II and Super Metroid since those to games are direct sequels to each other and putting a game inbetween them would screw up the storyline majorly.    

[Giolon]

Yah, it's:

Metroid
Metroid Prime
Metroid II: Return of Samus
Super Metroid
Metroid Fusion

I can't wait for Metroid Prime 2!!

[ruby_onix]

Spoilers for anything you could see in the openings of any of the games


Metroid - A survey team discovers the Metroids, but Space Pirates steal the Metroids for use as bio-weapons, so Samus Aran (a bounty hunter) is brought in to track the Pirates to their base on Zebes, eliminate the base, eliminate the Metroids, and eliminate the Space Pirates (and Mother Brain, their leader).

Metroid 2: The Return of Samus - Samus is sent to the planet SR-388 to wipe out the Metroids. Ends up not killing "the last of the Metroids" a newly-hatched baby that seemed to think Samus was it's mother.

Metroid 3: Super Metroid - Samus gives up her baby/pet Metroid to some scientists for reasearch. The revived/rebuilt/twin-brother/clone Ridley steals the Hatchling, and runs off to a newly-rebuilt base on Zebes. Everything dies (except for a few weird animal-critters who know how to fly their own spaceship), and Samus even blows up the planet Zebes for good measure.

Metroid 4: Metroid Fusion - As a result of the massive ecosystem damage Samus unleashed on SR-388 by wiping out the Metroids, a parasitic form of energy dubbed "X" (which used to be simple food for the energy-absorbing Metroids) is unleashed. It can corrupt the living and re-animate the dead, just for starters. Samus and her semi-organic Power Suit are corrupted, but saved thanks to some of the Hatchling's DNA, and turned into a sort of X-absorbing Metroid/Human/Chozo hybrid.

Metroid Prime - Shoehorned somewhere in-between Metroid and Metroid 3. Space Pirates attack a space station, leading Samus to learn of, and bust up, another Space Pirate base on Tallon IV (which apparently isn't Zebes, even though they share some of the same area names, like Brinstar and Norfair). I think it's technically supposed fit in before Metroid 2, but I don't think it really matters. Samus supposedly learns of the rebuilt Zebes base in this one (I don't remember everything I visor-scanned), but that doesn't explain why she didn't do anything about them until after the Hatchling was kidnapped in Metroid 3, or why anyone thought wiping out the (planet-bound) Metroids on SR-388 would do any good, when she found plenty of evidence in Metroid Prime that the Space Pirates weren't wiped out, and that they still had plenty of Metroid test subjects remaining, presumably at secret bases all over the galaxy. Or why she thought the Hatchling was "the last Metriod". Of course, Samus is a bounty hunter, and does things when she's paid to do them. And she gets her orders from politicians, who aren't always that bright, especially in works of fiction. IMO, that "last Metriod" bit is just a plot hole coming from the shoehorning of this game into the timeline. But it wouldn't be there if Metroid Prime took place after Metroid 2.

[mouse_clicker]

Odd, I've never seen Super Metroid called Metroid 3, and the only reason Metroid Fusion was called Metroid 4 originally was because it was, at the time, the 4th Metroid game in development. Numbering Metroid games, besides Return of Samus, is like calling Ocarina of Time Zelda 5.

[FFantasyFX]

mouse_clicker:  Don't know about Metroid Fusion, but the second or third screen on Super Metroid's intro. sequence (before you even start the game) actually has the name Metroid 3 on it.  So, someone can validly call Super Metroid by the name Metroid 3, althought not many people do.

[Rogue]

Great summary, Onix. That explained a lot of stuff for me. =)

One thing, though...

Quote
Metroid Prime - Shoehorned somewhere in-between Metroid and Metroid 3. Space Pirates attack a space station, leading Samus to learn of, and bust up, another Space Pirate base on Tallon IV (which apparently isn't Zebes, even though they share some of the same area names, like Brinstar and Norfair). I think it's technically supposed fit in before Metroid 2, but I don't think it really matters. Samus supposedly learns of the rebuilt Zebes base in this one (I don't remember everything I visor-scanned), but that doesn't explain why she didn't do anything about them until after the Hatchling was kidnapped in Metroid 3, or why anyone thought wiping out the (planet-bound) Metroids on SR-388 would do any good, when she found plenty of evidence in Metroid Prime that the Space Pirates weren't wiped out, and that they still had plenty of Metroid test subjects remaining, presumably at secret bases all over the galaxy. Or why she thought the Hatchling was "the last Metriod". Of course, Samus is a bounty hunter, and does things when she's paid to do them. And she gets her orders from politicians, who aren't always that bright, especially in works of fiction. IMO, that "last Metriod" bit is just a plot hole coming from the shoehorning of this game into the timeline. But it wouldn't be there if Metroid Prime took place after Metroid 2.

There was no Norfair or Brinstar on Talon IV. They had similar areas, though. And yeah, Metroid Prime fits in between Metroid and Metroid 2. Super Metroid comes pretty much immediately after Metroid 2, so there wouldn't be much room for another game in between.

 

[theaveng]

[theaveng]

[theaveng]

Here's my opinion based upon what I've read here:

- Sounds like Metroid Prime is a "sidequest" that doesn't really fit into a specific spot.  Obviously it has to happen before the Metroids become extinct, but the exact time is uncertain.  This is similar to the Zelda games Oracle of Ages/Seasons.

- If a game doesn't have a number in the title, you shouldn't use it IMHO.  It's Zelda: A Link to the Past not Zelda 3.  It's Metroid Fusion not Metroid 4 (or 5).

[Gehin]

ok, here goes : metroid, metroid prime, metroid 2, super metroid, metroid fusion

and for the number discussion, all metroids except prime use numbers in the game, if not in the title. observe, actual screenshots from super metroid and metroid fusion, taken by me not two minutes ago. (and yes, I registered just for this. heh.)

super metroid : www.gehin.net/stuff/metroid3.jpg

metroid fusion : www.gehin.net/stuff/metroid4.jpg

[ruby_onix]

"There was no Norfair or Brinstar on Talon IV."

You're right... I don't know how that got into my head. I think I was drooling over the graphics a bit too much while playing Metroid Prime.


Anyways, I started up Super Metroid earlier, and I think it rules out the possibility of Metroid Prime happening before Metroid 2. But doesn't rule it out from happening after Metroid 2.

It opens with (presumably) Samus saying "The last Metroid is in captivity. The galaxy is at peace."

They don't say when that was said, but that can only be said sometime after Metroid 2, and I don't see how anyone could say that after Metroid Prime. But, on to another point.

Next we get to read some sort of computer log written by Samus, and it says (not an exact quote) "I first fought Metroids on the planet Zebes, where I beat up a bunch of Space Pirates. I next fought them on their homeword, SR-388," (with no mention of Tallon IV) where I wiped them all out except for one larva which decided to follow me around like a confused child."

Now she wouldn't have to mention Metroid Prime at this point, because she introduced the hatchling, which is what she's obviously talking about in this log, not her battle record.

"I brought the Metroid to the Galactic Federation Research Station 'Ceres' so scientists could study it" (note that she doesn't say "immediately" or anything like that) "and hadn't gotten out past the asteriod belt before I heard a distress call from Ceres and turned back."

I'm speculating that Samus could have kept the Hatchling around for a while before turning it over for research. I mean, she did violate her mission objective (and probably didn't get paid) because she let it live. Would there have been something terribly wrong about being able to look inside your ship's windshield during Metroid Prime, and seeing a little Metroid happily bouncing off the walls?

And the presence of Space Pirate-controlled Metroids in a game doesn't mean it must come before the extermination of the Metroids on SR-388, because it's obvious that the extermination of the Space Pirates themselves and their secret Metroid tests was (and probably always will be) incomplete.

I think it's just that Retro put Metroids into Metroid Prime because they wanted to, and some people asked "How can there be Metroids in this game if they were all exterminated in Metroid 2?" and Retro said "I dunno. We can just put Prime before Metroid 2 if that makes you happy."

Metroid Prime's official place seems to be before Metroid 2, but I just think it would have worked better after it.  

[ruby_onix]

"Odd, I've never seen Super Metroid called Metroid 3, and the only reason Metroid Fusion was called Metroid 4 originally was because it was, at the time, the 4th Metroid game in development. Numbering Metroid games, besides Return of Samus, is like calling Ocarina of Time Zelda 5."

"Don't know about Metroid Fusion, but the second or third screen on Super Metroid's intro. sequence (before you even start the game) actually has the name Metroid 3 on it. So, someone can validly call Super Metroid by the name Metroid 3, althought not many people do."


I think a good analogy for it is Star Wars.

If you look at the cover of The Empire Strikes Back, it doesn't say that it's Episode 5 (or ever Star Wars, for that matter) on the cover, but we all know that it's full name is "Star Wars: Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back" and the original movie was "Star Wars: Episode IV: A New Hope".

It doesn't really matter that the only ones to use the episode numbers on their covers and stuff have been Episodes 1 and 2.


When dealing with continuity, I think it's clearer to make sure that the complete names and numbers are mentioned.

[Gehin]

I always took it for granted that Samus took the hatchling directly to the ceres lab, and not bounced around space with it for a few weeks. remember,she is a responsible and patriotic (?) woman. I think prime fits right in between 1 and 2, and the reason she doesnt state it in SM could be... well, the metroids werent the main bad guys in prime...

[ruby_onix]

Little baby Metroids are cuter than patriotism.

If they weren't, Samus would have let the player fulfill their duty and eliminate the little bugger the instant they saw him/her/it.  

[OutlawST]

Has anyone had a math class. prime or (') is used to distinguish two variables from one another. Meaning
x and x' . Metroid Prime is after the orginal Metroid because it is Metroid'

As found at http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=prime

>prime    ( P )
>n.
>6. A mark (') appended above and to the right of a character, especially:
>     a. One used to distinguish different values of the same variable in a mathematical expression.

That's my two cents.

Edit: copy and paste has thwarted me again.

[Gibdo Master]

This is why Metroid Prime cannot take place between Metroid II and Super Metroid. Samus would not have ran around the galaxy with a dangerous Metroid hatchling in her ship. She would have taken it immediately to the space station Ceres. At the beginning of Super Metroid she had just left the space station and then Ridley attacked it. So there is no way any games could fit between them. Samus was going to and staying on the space station the whole time between Metroid II and Super Metroid. Also if Metroid Prime happened after Metroid II don't you think there would have been references to what happened on SR-388? Instead we get lots of references to what happened on Zebes during Metroid.

Also the reason why Metroid Prime isn't numbered is because all the rest of the games were already numbered. It was a done did deal. I mean what were they supposed to do call it Metroid 1 1/2.  

[theaveng]

Good argument above!  Also, they could have called it Metroid 1-2 like the Final Fantasy 10-2.  ;-)  Just kidding.

Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onixI'm speculating that Samus could have kept the Hatchling around for a while before turning it over for research. I mean, she did violate her mission objective (and probably didn't get paid) because she let it live. Would there have been something terribly wrong about being able to look inside your ship's windshield during Metroid Prime, and seeing a little Metroid happily bouncing off the walls?

 FLAW: If Samus wiped out all the aliens in Metroid 2... except for that baby... how come she found Metroids in Metroid Prime?  That means she discovered the Metroid Prime planet *before* she killed all the Metroids... before Metroid 2.

Troy (Sidles off)  

[Gibdo Master]

I really don't see any argument for putting Metroid Prime after Metroid II and don't understand why people are determined to say that's where it goes. What's the point? It really doesn't matter where it goes actually it's just that it makes more sense and is easier to put it after Metroid not after Metroid II. I mean what the hell is the problem with putting Prime directly after Metroid anyway? The fact of the matter is is that there is no problem with putting it there while there is a problem with putting it after Metroid II or any other game for that matter which is why your guy's argument makes no sense. Hell, you don't even have an argument. Just get over what ever you guys are hung up about and except the FACT that Metroid Prime happens between Metroid and Metroid II.

Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
I'm speculating that Samus could have kept the Hatchling around for a while before turning it over for research. I mean, she did violate her mission objective (and probably didn't get paid) because she let it live.

I have to completely disagree with all of that. First of all whether or not she wouldn't have gotten paid she wouldn't have been irresponsible and just ran around the galaxy with something that is a galactic threat. She would have and did in fact take it immediately to the space station. Also I doubt she wouldn't have gotten paid. For one thing she didn't fail her mission. It's just that instead of destroying the last Metroid she just packed it up and took it with her. It could still be destroyed at any time. Also I'm sure that she was probably paid even more for bringing back a live test subject. I can't imagine that the scientist were upset over that. Scientist: "Samus we are very upset that you brought us the very last metroid so we could study the thing. Something that as scientist we would absolutely love to do. It's also something no one else could do because it was far to dangerous. Because of this we aren't paying you." Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

Finally I doubt Retro ever planned on placing Metroid Prime after Metroid II. From playing Metroid Prime I can tell they are fanatics about the series and would have known from the beginning that trying to squeeze a game between Metroid II and Metroid Prime would not have worked not to mention would have been stupid. I'm sure that as they were coming up with the story that they planned on making it a sequel to Metroid. Also could you actually explain to all of us why Metroid Prime would have been better if it happened after Metroid II instead of just saying it would.

[ruby_onix]

"FLAW: If Samus wiped out all the aliens in Metroid 2... except for that baby... how come she found Metroids in Metroid Prime? That means she discovered the Metroid Prime planet *before* she killed all the Metroids... before Metroid 2."

Space Pirates are capable of space travel. Therefore they are capable of trasporting cargo from one hidden base to another.

The Space Pirates apparently stole one single Metroid from the original SR-388 research team. It multiplied when exposed to Beta rays. Now the Space Pirates had a limitless supply of them. There was no need for them to ever get more of them from SR-388 as long as even one of them survived in Space Pirate hands somewhere. I figure Samus's mission to SR-388 was completely unrelated to the Space Pirates, who probably didn't even care what happened to SR-388.

Look at it this way, Samus wiped out Ridley on Zebes in the original Metroid. So how can the Space Pirates on Tallon IV have a re-built version of him in Metroid Prime?


"I really don't see any argument for putting Metroid Prime after Metroid II and don't understand why people are determined to say that's where it goes."

Nobody's saying that's where it goes. I'm saying that there was a better opening for it there.


"What's the point? It really doesn't matter where it goes actually it's just that it makes more sense and is easier to put it after Metroid not after Metroid II. I mean what the hell is the problem with putting Prime directly after Metroid anyway?"

Super Metroid (which you even said laid out the storyline nice and clearly) says that no encounter between Samus and Metroids can exist between Metroids 1 and 2. "The first time I battled Metroids was on Zebes. The next time was on their homeworld, where I wiped them out."


"The fact of the matter is is that there is no problem with putting it there while there is a problem with putting it after Metroid II or any other game for that matter which is why your guy's argument makes no sense. Hell, you don't even have an argument."

Did you read my earlier posts? Oh well, I'm repeating myself a bit here, so you don't really have to.


Just get over what ever you guys are hung up about and except the FACT that Metroid Prime happens between Metroid and Metroid II.

Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
I'm speculating that Samus could have kept the Hatchling around for a while before turning it over for research. I mean, she did violate her mission objective (and probably didn't get paid) because she let it live.

I have to completely disagree with all of that. First of all whether or not she wouldn't have gotten paid she wouldn't have been irresponsible and just ran around the galaxy with something that is a galactic threat. She would have and did in fact take it immediately to the space station."

You're making assumptions about her character. Ones I (for one) don't agree with. And regardless, her unwritten personality is easier to change than her written logs in Super Metroid.


"Also I doubt she wouldn't have gotten paid. For one thing she didn't fail her mission. It's just that instead of destroying the last Metroid she just packed it up and took it with her. It could still be destroyed at any time. Also I'm sure that she was probably paid even more for bringing back a live test subject. I can't imagine that the scientist were upset over that. Scientist: "Samus we are very upset that you brought us the very last metroid so we could study the thing. Something that as scientist we would absolutely love to do. It's also something no one else could do because it was far to dangerous. Because of this we aren't paying you." Yeah that makes a lot of sense."

She didn't "fail" her mission exactly, but she did abandon it. The Galactic Federation decided that the Metroids were too dangerous to exist, and hired Samus to wipe them out. She killed a bunch of Metroids, then left the planet without finishing the job.

You seem to think she did that because she saw a "containable" Metroid, and compromised her entire mission because she realized it was worth more alive.

I think she couldn't finish her mission because she's not a baby-killer. She realized her mission was wrong. This Metroid thought Samus was it's mother, and she couldn't betray it.

Saving the life of one baby Metroid was an atonement for her genocide, and I think it's possible that it could have taken a while for the Galactic Federation to convince Samus that the Metroid would be safe and well-treated with them, before she handed it over.

And BTW, it wasn't reckless and irresponsible of her to keep it. She's proved a number of times that she's the only one who can handle them. Perhaps she had to wait a few months for them to construct a proper containment facility?


"Finally I doubt Retro ever planned on placing Metroid Prime after Metroid II. From playing Metroid Prime I can tell they are fanatics about the series and would have known from the beginning that trying to squeeze a game between Metroid II and Metroid Prime would not have worked not to mention would have been stupid."

Because the Space Pirates aren't cabable of transporting Metroids through space, so they alway need to get fresh ones from SR-388. I get it now. Wait, if SR-388 is another planet...


"I'm sure that as they were coming up with the story that they planned on making it a sequel to Metroid. Also could you actually explain to all of us why Metroid Prime would have been better if it happened after Metroid II instead of just saying it would."

Because putting it before Metroid 2 made a plot hole. Super Metroid didn't just forget to mention Metroid Prime, they ruled it out. Now people have to either ignore a "flaw" in Super Metroid's story, or one in Metroid Prime's. That cheapens the entire Metroid storyline.

Especially since I can see a better opening for a game after Metroid 2, due to some potential extra time (nobody is saying it is there, but it could have been if Retro wrote it that way), and the fact that the Space Pirates and the planet SR-388 are seperate issues. The Space Pirates don't need to get Metroids from SR-388. They already have them. What, do people think that there will never be any more Metroids in any future Mertoid games? Ever? If the Space Pirates can come back, so can the Metroids.

And it wouldn't have affected Metroid Prime at all to have put it after Metroid 2. All they would need is maybe one Pirate Data note mentioning that "It appears as if the Galactic Federation has cut off the Metroid source at SR-388, so all reasearch teams should be cautious not to exhaust their supplies."  

[Gibdo Master]

Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
Super Metroid (which you even said laid out the storyline nice and clearly) says that no encounter between Samus and Metroids can exist between Metroids 1 and 2. "The first time I battled Metroids was on Zebes. The next time was on their homeworld, where I wiped them out."

Well, guess what if Metroid Prime took place after Metroid II that little opening intro would have still been messed up wouldn't it.

Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
She didn't "fail" her mission exactly, but she did abandon it. The Galactic Federation decided that the Metroids were too dangerous to exist, and hired Samus to wipe them out. She killed a bunch of Metroids, then left the planet without finishing the job.

She didn't leave without finishing the job. Instead of killing the hatchling she decided to take it to a Galactic Ferederation research station so it could be studied. They were obviously happy about this from the way that one scientist was shaking Samus's hand in the Super Metroid intro. Leaving the planet without finishing the job would be more like if she just decided to leave the hatchling on the planet without killing it.

Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
You seem to think she did that because she saw a "containable" Metroid, and compromised her entire mission because she realized it was worth more alive.

I think she couldn't finish her mission because she's not a baby-killer. She realized her mission was wrong. This Metroid thought Samus was it's mother, and she couldn't betray it.

Saving the life of one baby Metroid was an atonement for her genocide, and I think it's possible that it could have taken a while for the Galactic Federation to convince Samus that the Metroid would be safe and well-treated with them, before she handed it over.

To quote you, "You're making assumptions about her character. Ones I (for one) don't agree with." Your entire post there is about personal opinions that exist only in your head. They weren't stated any where in the games so how does it make your assumptions about her character better than mine. Hell, I wasn't even making assumptions. I was only going by what's in the games. Since you have obviously read the intro for Super Metroid I figured you would have noticed this part, "I personally delivered it to the galactic research station at Ceres so scientists could study its energy producing qualities...". She says right there that the reason she took it the research station was so that the damn thing could be studied.

Also her atitude toward the metroid is also pretty well expressed in this part, "The scientists’ findings were astounding! They discovered that the powers of the metroid might be harnessed for the good of civilization!" See how shocked she is by the discovery that the metroid could be used for good. This shows that up until the discoverey she felt they could only be used for negative purposes.

Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
Because the Space Pirates aren't cabable of transporting Metroids through space, so they alway need to get fresh ones from SR-388. I get it now. Wait, if SR-388 is another planet...

Hahaha... My point was is that you can't put another game between Metroid II and Super Metroid because we know of Samus whereabouts during that time. Also as far as Samus knew she had wiped out all the metroids except for the hatchling after what she did on SR388. As a matter of fact she had wiped them all out except for the hatchling.

Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
Because putting it before Metroid 2 made a plot hole. Super Metroid didn't just forget to mention Metroid Prime, they ruled it out. Now people have to either ignore a "flaw" in Super Metroid's story, or one in Metroid Prime's. That cheapens the entire Metroid storyline.

Oh, so putting Metroid Prime after Metriod II even though it would have caused the exact same plot hole in the Super Metroid intro wouldn't have cheapened it. Interesting logic you have there.

Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
Especially since I can see a better opening for a game after Metroid 2, due to some potential extra time (nobody is saying it is there, but it could have been if Retro wrote it that way), and the fact that the Space Pirates and the planet SR-388 are seperate issues. The Space Pirates don't need to get Metroids from SR-388. They already have them. What, do people think that there will never be any more Metroids in any future Mertoid games? Ever? If the Space Pirates can come back, so can the Metroids.

Umm, when did I say that we need Metroid on SR388 to get metroids? NEVER. In fact Metroid Prime addresses that whole idea because the pirates had extra metroids that they had on space ships and stuff. Samus wasn't aware of this till sometime after she landed on Tallon IV. However it's obvious from Super Metroid that the space pirates no longer had a personal supply of metroids and since SR388 didn't have any that's why they had to steal the hatchling. This means that Samus destroyed the pirates supply of metroid during Metroid Prime. Actually if Metroid Prime 2 is a direct sequel to Metroid Prime then the space pirates personal supply of metroid will probably be destroyed during that game.

Also so far the games have done a good job of explaining why the metroid are there or why they have come back when we thought they were all destroyed. So I don't think they will just say they are there because they are since they haven't done that yet.