Topic: Sigh, some biassed Nintendo Bashing!

[mouse_clicker]

"MS have done some great (and new) things, like the harddrive and Xboxlive."

The hard drive was good- XBox Live was nothing new. Sega;s the one that innovated online console gaming.

"Blinx was a good idea, bad execution. Halo introduced the 2 weapon system, didn't it?"

Blinx had a great idea. About Halo- are you referring to it limitting you to two weapons? Hardly innovative- just a limit on how many weapons you can have at a time (which SUCKED in my opinion- screw realism, I like to hold a lot more than 2 guns)

"I think it's easy to be frustrated with Nintendo for using the Pokemon and Mario licenses so much."

Pokemon yes, since it's pretty much the same game. But MARIO? Mario is synonomous to innovation. Mario has revolutionized gaming more times than ANY other series, and that hasn't let up. Mario is ANYTHING but a rehash.

"they talked about licenses or franchises taking the pressure off the developer to make a really great game. And Nintendo does do that. Super Mario Sunshine should've been a brand new game. The presentation was sloppy and the idea of using water could probably have been expanded much further had it been an original character. But Mario would sell, so they slapped Mario in there (much like they put Star Fox into Dinosaur Planet)"

Are you BLIND? SMS was built from the ground up with the water gun in mind- it wasn't an idea they "slapped" Mario onto- get that out of your head. And how was the presentation sloppy? SMS was one of the BEST platformers I've ever played- maybe not the best Mario game but MUCH better than 99% of games out there. It's easily one of the funnest games I've ever played. How was it sloppy?

"Mario Tennis and Golf are also like this (I don't include Kart or Party since I haven't played much of those series). Do the Mario characters really add that much to the gameplay?"

Tennis and Golf do benefit from the Mario license, yes, but that doesn't mean they're damn fine games. And Kart and Party are almost completely based around the Mario World- while MP 2 and 3 didn't offer much new, at least 4 did and Kart always offers something new.

I'm not saying every single one of Nintendo's games revolutionizes the industry, but Nintendo is more revolutionary than pretty much every other developer combined. I can understand if people are irked that Pokemon never changes, or with similar cases, but to say MS is MORE innovative is just talknig out of your ass. Besides the fact MS doesn't even make games themselves, the only really innovative idea they've published was Blinx and the developer really screwed up with that game.

[Ian Sane]

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately depending on your point of view) I cannot look at Gamespot at work due to some bizarre bug (any site with only one period in the title like Gamespot.com doesn't work for some reason) so I can't read the article.  However the "Nintendo rehashes" arguement has been around since the Playstation debuted and fans needed some sort of excuse for why they didn't like Nintendo games.

The truth is most people who say that Nintendo milks their franchises or rehashes their sequels are the same people who own and love every Final Fantasy game, play every version of Street Fighter imaginable, and thought GTA: Vice City was the best game of last year.  The general rule with many reviewers is game series they don't like are milked and ones they like aren't.  The same reviewer will mark one game a lower score because "it plays too similar to the original" and give another game a great score with a comment like "sure you've played it all before, but so what".

The main reasoning people use to back up this ridiculous accusation is games like Mario Party and Mario Golf which are games featuring the Mario franchise that don't really have to use it.  Personally I think Mario Kart and Mario RPG should be the only spinoffs but if Nintendo can get better sales by adding the Mario franchise to more games then I don't really blame them for doing so.

A general problem is that a lot of these people use new content as the basis for innovation instead of new gameplay.  Mario may constantly be adding new gameplay additions to each game but each game still has the same characters so it's not innovative.  Meanwhile Halo may play like every console FPS ever made but it has a new character so it's innovative.  Same with Final Fantasy which has new characters in every game.  FFX-2 will probably be critisized as being rehashed.

Most "innovative" games are just Malibu Stacy with a new hat.  

[Squall]

Quote
Are you BLIND? SMS was built from the ground up with the water gun in mind- it wasn't an idea they "slapped" Mario onto- get that out of your head. And how was the presentation sloppy? SMS was one of the BEST platformers I've ever played- maybe not the best Mario game but MUCH better than 99% of games out there. It's easily one of the funnest games I've ever played. How was it sloppy?

I'm not saying it was a bad platformer, it was tons of fun.  I said the PRESENTATION was sloppy, and that if it hadn't been Mario it might've opened up new gameplay possibilities.  For example, if it hadn't been Mario the water-pack may have been used in better ways (I would've liked to see the water shooting out of the hover-pack expansion play a role, and the Yoshi thing seemed very forced).  I'm sorry for the way I phrased it, I know it was always intended to be a Mario game.  I simply meant the Mario name wasn't needed.  I could go much deeper into things I would've liked to see changed, but that's another topic.  My point is I think the game would've worked better with new characters.

I have no problem with sticking to old franchises to make a game sell, as long as the gameplay remains completely unaffected.

[mouse_clicker]

How could the water pack have been implemented in different ways if it didn't involve Mario? I failto see how Mario hindered the water pack. Remember, Nintendo didn't have an idea for a water pack game and put Mario in it, they had an idea for a Mario game and put the water pack in it.

[thecubedcanuck]

I saw nothing innovative about SMS, having to use the water gun the whole game sucked, and all in all it was frustrating, repetitive and lacked fun, same goes for the vaccuum in Luigi's Mansion. Pikmin was very innovative IMO, and I truly enjoyed it.
As for rehashing old games, all 3 are guilty.

[Sir Pinch-a-Loaf]

Ian:

www.gamespot.com will also work, so waste time and bandwidth at work as much as you want!!

[Ian Sane]

Thanks for the tip.  Originally www.Gamespot.com wouldn't work because it used to redirect to gamespot.com/whatever.  I guess they changed it recently.

"I saw nothing innovative about SMS, having to use the water gun the whole game sucked, and all in all it was frustrating, repetitive and lacked fun"

Well it doesn't matter whether you liked it or not because that's not the issue being discussed.  The water gun was still innovative.  SMS doesn't suddenly become a rehash because you didn't like the new stuff it had.

[Squall]

I might make a topic about SMS later.  But it really is a different topic.