Topic: Sony getting hit Hard lately

[nitsu niflheim]

yes, but by the time those games are out, it might be too late.

[segagamer12]

I amnot arguing the insanity of it Ima saying that EVERYWHERE YOU GO you hear Xbox fans saying they HATE FF games, EVERY FORUM< EVERY WEBSITE EVERY TOWN EVERY STORE! why do YOU CARE!? WHatd oes it matter *TO YOU*? Why even argue? I have NEVER met ONE SINGLE Xbox fan who CARED about FF, EVER PERIOD, anywhere.

Have you? Maybe a handfuyll of die hard gamers but the MAJORITY of the Xbox crowd has been VERY VOCAL in not liking FF games. Lost in Blue, give me abreak that game is MS trying to save its skin in Japan, it has nothing to do with the Xbox fans its MS trying to *get* FF fans and RPG fans to buy an Xbox.

I havent kept up if its even out yet but I havent meant *anyone* who cares either way. Look I am not saying FF *WONT* got to 360, DIdI EVER SAY THAT! NO just that we *ALL KNOW* that it will NOT SELL int he same Numbers as it did on PS unless the FF Fans BUY an Xbox because *CURREN* Xbox fans DO NOT CARE FOR FF! YES i have resources iT called EVERY SINGLE XBOX FAN i have *EVER* met or talked to onluine feels *EXACTLY* the same way.

MY argument has NO HOLES IN IT you JUST refuse to accept I MIGHT be right about something.



What it *WILL* do if, BIG IF, it comes to 360 is push 360 sales UP so the FF fans can play FF because the *MAJORITY of them wont get a pS3, which I SAID ALREADY and you STILL argued against!  The DIE HARD Ps3 fans will STILL get it on PS3 and the DIE HARD gamers will STILL geta ps3 regardless of the price, weatherr you LIKE IT OR NOT!

[oohhboy]

Quote
Originally posted by: Rhoq
What would this mean for Nintendo? Would Manhunt 2 still be released for the Wii?  I just can't see them allowing any of the gaming franchises they'd acquired through the purchase of Take-Two to appear on any of their competitor's consoles.

If true, in the short term it probalily means nothing. The existing contact, assuming there is one, would still stand. Nintendo would more than likely still get it's game.

Long term, it's impact is not going to be anywhere as great as people are going to make it out to be. The 360 is already saturated with GTA style sandbox games that have already surpassed the previous GTAs in every catagory.

For Sony, the impact would be huge. They would end up with another genre hole with nothing ready to fill it. If the game went multiplatform, the same effect would still happen. Why buy a more expensive machine when it is avaible on a "cheaper" console.

MS doesn't need to buy the entire thing for the same effect. DMC will demostrate this. Anyway, I think MS has had enough poison pills for the time being. Outright buying Devs in not the solution to getting games.

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
Get over yourselves Damn I ams ick of arguing with peopel over things that are obvious. just f*&$ off.

If you don't want people debating your opinions, like that Xbox owners wouldn't buy Final Fantasy titles, then simply don't make them public. This is a message board, one of its key functions is interaction with others' thoughts.  

[Luigi Dude]

Segagamer is kind of right about X-Box owners not wanting Final Fantasy, the X-Box fanbase in general doesn't care too much for Final Fantasy.  Here on the internet, yes, there are alot of X-Box owners that would love to see Final Fantasy, but that's only a small percent.

The reason the X-Box and the 360 are doing well here in America, but poorly everywhere else in the world is because the system is primarly an American console that's caters to a Western audience with Western games.  The X-Box last gen had 38 games that sold over a million copies, yet out of those 38 only TWO  were from Japanese companies.  And those two games were Dead or Alive 3 from Tecmo and ESPN NFL 2K5 from Sega.  Here's the rest to show the taste in games the X-Box fanbase has.

Halo 2
Halo
Tom Clancy Splinter Cell
Fable
Grand Theft Auto Double Pack
Project Gotham Racing
Need for Speed: Underground 2
Star Wars: Knights of the Republic
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
Tom Clancy Ghost Recon
Need for Speed: Underground
Star Wars: Battlefront
Tom Clancy Rainbow Six 3
Project Gotham Racing 2
Dead or Alive 3   
Madden NFL 2005   
Madden NFL 2006
Tom Clancy Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow
ESPN NFL 2K5
Medal Of Honour Frontline
Star Wars: Battlefront II
Tom Clancy Ghost Recon 2
Spiderman: The Movie
True Crime: Streets of LA
Enter the Matrix
Star Wars: Knights of the Republic 2
Tony Hawks Underground   
Doom III
Hitman 2: Silent Assassin
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
Medal Of Honour Rising Sun
Max Payne
Tom Clancy Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
Call of Duty: Finest Hour
Need for Speed: Most Wanted
Spiderman: The Movie 2
Forza Motorsport

And here's the 360's list that shows that the taste in the X-Boxes fanbase is still the same.

Gears of War
Call of Duty 2
Tom Clancy Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter
Madden NFL 07
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Call of Duty 3
Crackdown
Fight Night Round 3
Lost Planet: Extreme Condition (From Capcom, but very western styled)
Tom Clancy Rainbow Six: Vegas
Perfect Dark Zero
Dead Rising (Same as Lost Planet)
Saints Row
Need for Speed: Most Wanted
Need For Speed: Carbon

Once again, the X-Box is an American system that appeal primarily to Western audiences with Western games.  The only Japanese games to sell well are the ones that are made to appeal to an American audience.  Final Fantasy is just too Japanese for the X-Boxes primary fanbase.  Even if it did well the most Square could hope for is 2 million MAX.  The highest selling RPG on an X-Box system has been KotoR with 1.95 million, and when compared to how FFX sold 7.95 million, FFX-2 sold 5.21 million and FFXII 4.94 million so far, I dont see Square even trying to take a chance with Microsoft.

This is why Square-Enix hasn't given the 360 any real support because they know their games would sell horrible compare to how well they could be selling on the Wii and PS3.  But now that the PS3 has crashed and is in need of a miracle the Wii is the only system that can give Square-Enix the sales they want.  And it doesn't matter how underpowered the Wii is, if Square wants money they'll find a way to put FFXIII on the Wii.  If they have to downgrade it like crazy, they'll do it, as long as they can get high sales that's all Square will care about.

Last gen proved that the system with the highest user base will get the most games, regardless of how powerful it is.  If a company wants a game on the Wii they'll put it on the Wii, just like if they wanted it on the PS2, they found a way to put it on the PS2.  

[Spak-Spang]

Luigi Dude:  I completely agree with your idea that Microsoft has created a primarily Western console.  I believe it was what Microsoft meant to do from the very start.  

Create an in with the market through the American audience which they know they can reach with their computer game partnerships and online gaming expertise.

I personally think Microsoft is trying to kill Sony outright, as they are the closest direct competition Xbox 360 has this generation.  I believe Microsoft is also supporting and promoting Nintendo because Microsoft doesn't believe Nintendo is a threat to their American Market Share, however, Nintendo is a huge threat to Sony's Japanese Market Share.  The enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of deal.  If Microsoft can manage to gain a strong hold of Europe and North America while Nintendo takes Japan then Sony could be crushed out of the market this generation.

If that happens Microsoft probably would feel much stronger at being the dominating market force this generation and more importantly NEXT.  

The one thing I do not agree with is the false perception that Sony and the PS3 have crashed and burned.  The PS3 has had a rough start, but the true test of the market hasn't even begun yet.  

Anything can happen.  Nintendo or Microsoft could trip up badly, or Sony could rise from the bad launch and defeat all.  

[Jonnyboy117]

segagamer12 has been banned for flaming in the above posts.  If you cannot argue respectfully and defend your statements without resorting to such aggressive language then you will not be allowed to post on these forums.  I thank the rest of you for showing more maturity in your responses to him.

[Luigi Dude]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang


The one thing I do not agree with is the false perception that Sony and the PS3 have crashed and burned.  The PS3 has had a rough start, but the true test of the market hasn't even begun yet.  

Anything can happen.  Nintendo or Microsoft could trip up badly, or Sony could rise from the bad launch and defeat all.

Well maybe not crashed and burned but things aren't looking too good.  All of the big third party games that were announced for the PS3, were announced and development was started before Sony's infamous E3 2006 press conferance.  The thing that I look at is how the Gamecube was putting up better numbers then the PS3 is right now.  As we all remember, third parties had no hope for the Gamecube from the start and never even gave it a chance.  They gave the system crappy ports in the beggining and then used the low sales as an excuse to cut development for a system they didn't want to develop for in the first place.

Well when I see the PS3 sales being worse then the Gamecube's early sales, I wonder what must be going through third parties minds.  If back in 2001, if Final Fantasy X or Metal Gear Solid 2 would have been games scheduled for the Gamecube, Square and Konami would have been angry as all hell over the systems low early sales and would have announced a PS2 port right away.  They would never have allowed their big name series to be on a system with such a small user base.  Well now their big name series are on the system with an even LOWER userbase.

[KDR_11k]

Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
segagamer12 has been banned

Don't worry, he'll come back. Didn't his previous accounts get banned, too?

[Spak-Spang]

Luigi Dude:

That is very true.  I think confidence in Sony by developers is dropping.  But, I think as Nintendo fans we often times look at the bad news for Sony through rose colored glasses, and forget that it could only be temporary.  

Specially when you are looking at a life cycle of at least 4-5 years...in the grand scheme of things the first 6 months don't really matter.  I personally am worried that after year 1 the Wii will begin to see a sharp decline in units sold, as the newness wears off and the aging technology is noticed more.

[Ceric]

As of right now the biggest reason I would want a PS3 is for:

A) PSX-2 backward compatibility
B) Blu-Ray
~C) Potential to be hacked into a Media Streamer

Those are the reasons for me.  Sony is getting rid of A in my case soon.  So I have two choices get a PS3 or never get a PS3.
Now for the most part I like the 360 but I haven't gotten one of those because I'm still waiting on a few things and well there isn't really any XBox games I wanted to play in the past.  If the 360 was 100% Compatibile with PS2 games then I get it in the heartbeat because there are a lot of games I like to play but I haven't.
Also I don't just want to get another PS2 because that seems like a waste.

My next point.  From what I've seen FFXII is a pretty visual impressive game.  I don't see why the Wii couldn't do better then that.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Wow Sega is banned again? Didn't think what he said was that bad, sure he was alittle agressive but didn't think that constituted ban material!

[ShyGuy]

BRING BACK THE RAT! Please don't ban me for using all caps

On the subject, Sony will begin throwing around money hats (on credit) to make annoying PS3 exclusives in the vein of Soul Calibur 3.

[Shift Key]

FF has a huge following, with the advent of the next generation of consoles I can't see why FF on the 360 would sell any differently to FF on the PS3.
I don't think it matters which system they're on, if its an exclusive deal (most likely) then they'll have to purchase that system to play FF(n+1).

Sure, the 360 library favours  the American gamers, but give the Japanese gamers a major franchise like FF as an exclusive and I'm sure they'll be able to sell more units over in Japan.

How hard is that to fathom?

[SixthAngel]

One game won't change anyone but the super hardcore to pick up a 360.  They already got a small chunk to buy it with blue dragon but it simply wasn't enough to keep the sales up.  One game, even Final Fantasy, isn't going to push many people to pay so much just for that game.  Final Fantasy is too important to risk sullying the name by throwing it on the 360.  PS3 isn't looking so hot right now but it still seems like a better fit.

The ports mentioned were on systems when the game had long since been out, like the nes to psx, that doesn't count.  Even nonFF square seems to keep on a single system.  Single system games always seem to get more hype and be bigger franchises (besides madden) and I think it is smart for Square to not spread their franchises out too much.  

[Kairon]

Well, one thing at least is for certain... the next Kingdom Hearts title will NOT be on either the 360 or the PS3. Those consoles are just too expensive for a lot of the game's younger fanbase. Kingdom Hearts 3 for the PS2 and/or Wii?

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Well, one thing at least is for certain... the next Kingdom Hearts title will NOT be on either the 360 or the PS3. Those consoles are just too expensive for a lot of the game's younger fanbase. Kingdom Hearts 3 for the PS2 and/or Wii?

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Wait a second, Kingdom Hearts is not just for the younger base, that game has a big following from all age demographics. Both of the games have well written stories that mesh well with both the FF and Disney Universe, mixing mature themes with fun loving moments!

[Kairon]

Of course Golden Phoenix. But it's sorta poinbtless to put beloved Disney characters on a 600 dollar system. Sure Kingdom hearts has older fans as well, but it has younger fans without whom the franchise would not be half as successful as it is.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Of course Golden Phoenix. But it's sorta poinbtless to put beloved Disney characters on a 600 dollar system. Sure Kingdom hearts has older fans as well, but it has younger fans without whom the franchise would not be half as successful as it is.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Actually I would say it is kind of pointless to put any game on a $600 system, but that is besides the point.

[Ghisy]

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Actually I would say it is kind of pointless to put $600 on any game system, but that is besides the point.

Fixed!

[Jin-X]

Spak-Spang: the chances that the PS3 comes in 1st place in sales are none and none. They are losing exclusives left and right and are saddled by the absurd price. MGS 4 being ported to 360 is almost a foregone conclusion and FF 13 won't come out till next year; and as Ocarina of Time proved, not one game can turn the tide, no matter how good it is. Oh and that was for $200 system.

These things have a domino effect, once one console gets too far behind or one gets far ahead, you can't turn the tide because developers will start going more and more to that console. Developers aren't going to sit around waiting for Sony to do a massive price cut (I'm talking a $200 cut) or for FF to turn it around, which it won't anyway.

The Wii is still selling out in what will probably be its weakest game lineup in it's generation, filled with PS2 ports. By next year you will see much better 3rd party games/support.

And oh yeah, the PS3 costs $600 **************** dollars. It always bears repeating because there are still people that don't quite grasp how much that matters.

[Spak-Spang]

Jin-X:  Don't get me wrong.  I am not one that is supporting the PS3 or hoping that it succeeds.  I believe that the PS3 took the gaming market to an extreme level that is hard to support or even justify.  And this is after Microsoft already pushed that limit with the Xbox 360.  

But I am not willing to state that the PS3 is doomed or that it is in a position that it may not overcome.  The fact that the Xbox 360 hasn't cracked the Japanese market proves that the PS3 still has a chance.  It is the only system that the Japanese market will support that contains HD support.  

Once good games come out the sales numbers will start to increase...and look at the short term numbers that the Wii has pulled off.  It has proven that in about 1/2 a year you can sell 1/2 the number it took another console to sell in about a Year and half.  (Xbox 360 numbers to Wii numbers).  Basically whether we want to believe it or not, the end of 2007 could have the next generation market share looking vastly different.  

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Don't forget it's $800+ in Euroland

=D

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Basically whether we want to believe it or not, the end of 2007 could have the next generation market share looking vastly different.

Only if Sony cuts the price. I don't know about you, but I see nothing in the PS3's future that will change its overall outcome for the year, particularly worldwide. Have you seen the early launch performance of the PS3 in Europe (pre-ordered units selling for less then the retail at eBay)? It's not looking good.

The only things I see as possible changes for the year, from current data, are:

- Wii takes #1 in worldwide sales
- Wii takes the Europe market
- Xbox 360 takes #2 in Japan (damn remote, but I actually see this as more likely then the PS3 moving up in the ranks in another market)  

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Jin-X:  Don't get me wrong.  I am not one that is supporting the PS3 or hoping that it succeeds.  I believe that the PS3 took the gaming market to an extreme level that is hard to support or even justify.  And this is after Microsoft already pushed that limit with the Xbox 360.  

But I am not willing to state that the PS3 is doomed or that it is in a position that it may not overcome.  The fact that the Xbox 360 hasn't cracked the Japanese market proves that the PS3 still has a chance.  It is the only system that the Japanese market will support that contains HD support.  

Once good games come out the sales numbers will start to increase...and look at the short term numbers that the Wii has pulled off.  It has proven that in about 1/2 a year you can sell 1/2 the number it took another console to sell in about a Year and half.  (Xbox 360 numbers to Wii numbers).  Basically whether we want to believe it or not, the end of 2007 could have the next generation market share looking vastly different.

Spake does have a point, I'm not willing to "doom" Sony just yet either, but if they end up losing Final Fantasy I would say the chances are pretty good it will fail at achieving number 1 (or even number 2) status worldwide.