Topic: Why I prefer the DS's "weak" graphics

[Chozo Ghost]

You guys might think I am nuts for thinking this, but I really prefer the way games look on my DS than they do on the PSP or really any other current console out there. The game play of these weak graphic games really couldn't be improved by doubling their graphics or making them high definition. The resources developers spend on making games look better tends to detract from what should really count in a game - fun.

I think the DS's low graphics capability is a positive thing, because it forces developers to focus on the gameplay aspects and it keeps the development costs down, but this is also a good thing for myself, because I actually prefer not to have a game that looks like a movie. Why? Well, it is just like with a book I suppose. A book forces you to use your imagination, whereas in a movie you are locked into whatever you can see on the screen. I found the lord of the rings books far more enjoyable than the recent movies that were made. I felt kinda let down, because when I read the books I envisioned things in my imagination that were far different than what I'd seen on screen.

How many times have you read a book that was far better than the movie they based on it? I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, because I hear many people make similar comments all the time. I think this is because no budget is really required to write a book, whereas making a movie requires massive funds for special effects and so on. In the end it really can't compare to your own imagination.

Games are kinda the same way. Old NES games like Super Mario and Zelda had really weak graphics, but they fired my imagination in ways the newer 3D versions never could. The worlds appeared vague and pixelated, and it allowed some room for imagination. I mean, modern advanced graphics games are still great, so don't get me wrong, but the older games had a charm for me that these newer ones haven't been able to recapture. The sound was also great. How many of you remember the sound effects from SMB? Now how many of you remember the sound effects from, uh... Halo?

Some DS games like New Super Mario Bros. have managed to recapture this original charm for me. No PS3, PSP, or 360 (or even Wii) game I've ever seen has done this. They aim to look like movies, and they do quite well in that regard, but I am not really much of a movie person. I am more into the books, and so for me the DS is kinda the perfect system, and it will be a sad day (for me) when Nintendo releases a new hand-held with PSP or higher graphics...

On a side note, I also think it is great the DS card media doesn't hold as much as optical media, because this forces developers to not include cutscenes. I hate those things, and it relates back to what I said about modern games becoming more like interactive movies than actual games.

I say the DS graphics are perfect the way they are, and when Nintendo works on its sequel I don't care if they neglect the graphics aspect entirely. They can improve it by making both screens touch sensitive, or adding a few new features here and there, but I love those crude, pixelated, cartoon like graphics and I hope they never fade from the world of video-gaming.

[IceCold]

The DS is keeping 2D games alive.. and I couldn't be more grateful for that.

[Smoke39]

I know exactly what you're talking about, Chozo.  Really fancy graphics can be nice, but I think abstraction has more merit than it's often given credit.

[KDR_11k]

I think a more powerful system would allow for more game styles and more graphical power for more complex situations. I also don't think "abstraction" applies to the kind of stuff we see in DS games.

[Kairon]

I wouldn't say that the DS lacks power. I'd say that it has attained a harmony of attributes.

[Smoke39]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I also don't think "abstraction" applies to the kind of stuff we see in DS games.

You can call it whatever you want.  The point is that less sophisticated hardware forces a simpler, less detailed graphical presentation, leaving more for you to fill in yourself.

[Ghisy]

Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
The DS is keeping 2D games alive.. and I couldn't be more grateful for that.

QFT.

2D games = FTW!!

[KDR_11k]

They look uglier but I don't see much to fill in myself, they usually cut down on the world complexity which means less stuff overall. 24x32 pixel sprites leave room for filling in details yourself but not 250 triangle models that cover the whole screen.

[Flames_of_chaos]

Well I think to perfect the DS the only thing Nintendo has to do is make it as ergonomic as possible for a handheld ,offer 2 touch screens or even 2 multi-point touch screens and try to make the gap of the screens much less apparent since that could evolve the possible play styles of the DS so much more.

I don't care about graphics and if you look at the 360 or PS3 some games are plagued with the uncanny valley effect.

[Smoke39]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
They look uglier but I don't see much to fill in myself, they usually cut down on the world complexity which means less stuff overall. 24x32 pixel sprites leave room for filling in details yourself but not 250 triangle models that cover the whole screen.

Low-poly models are analogous to low-resolution sprites.  And the textures are basically low-res sprites being warped to simulated 3 dimensions from a larger number of angles.

[Ian Sane]

Graphics are all about what you do with them.  There are tons of games that from a technical point of view push so many polygons and have so many effects but still look like crap to me because the graphic design is boring and generic.  I find the look of EA games to be dull as dirt, and that makes sense since EA targets the mainstream and creative, interesting graphics risk turning someone off more than a safe design.

The PSP is a very dull system.  It's full or remakes and ports and quick cash grabs from boring publishers.  It's userbase is also full of tech nuts that MIGHT use it for games sometimes, once in a while.  The DS may be the ideal portable for non-gamers but it's also the ideal portable for hardcore gamers that would prefer to play a game than watch a movie.  So the graphic design on the DS is going to be better.

I used to think realism was the cause of boring graphics but I don't think that's the case anymore.  Capcom and Square Enix often have proportionate characters that look a fair bit like real people.  Shenmue has that.  So does Metal Gear Solid and none of those look dull.  There's some extra factor involved that I can't put my finger on in making a proportionate human character look interesting or dull.  Whatever it is EA REALLY sucks at it.

[ShyGuy]

You're right Ian, I've noticed that too. There is something about games like RE4 that are realistic, but are still stylized. They avoid the uncanny valley somehow that way.  

[nickmitch]

Character development?

[Ceric]

"Some DS games like New Super Mario Bros. have managed to recapture this original charm for me."

I'm sorry that game did the opposite for me and reaffirmed that the charm was getting harder to find.

I also agree with Ian and ShyGuy.

[Mashiro]

I have to agree with Ceric on this one. While NSMB was a good game it doesn't hold a candle to the classics.

The biggest disappointment to me was the music and uninspired power ups. Not saying the game was bad but it doesn't really come close to re-capturing the magic that the original Super Mario Bros. titles had.

[Chozo Ghost]

You guys are sorta right that NSMB didn't compare to SMB3 in many respects (especially in interesting powerups) but remember it is more a remake of SMB1, and compared to SMB1 it captures that feel really well and includes many great enhancements. I like that they took a more conservative approach to that, because it makes room for remakes of SMB2 and 3 in the future...

[IceCold]

I don't like all the bashing on NSMB.. of course it couldn't be as magical as the other 2D Mario games (what could?) but it was still a very special game.

[Mashiro]

Sorry if it seemed like I was bashing on the game, don't get me wrong it was a good game (and it was the reason I bought a DS) but it is unfair I guess to assume it could have the same magic as the original SMB games.

On a random side note, IceCold love the avatar. Swat Kats FTW =D

[KDR_11k]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
They look uglier but I don't see much to fill in myself, they usually cut down on the world complexity which means less stuff overall. 24x32 pixel sprites leave room for filling in details yourself but not 250 triangle models that cover the whole screen.

Low-poly models are analogous to low-resolution sprites.  And the textures are basically low-res sprites being warped to simulated 3 dimensions from a larger number of angles.

I disagree. For me it's about size, for small things I can assume there's detail I don't see but when the choppy models take up the whole screen there's no way I can think "well, maybe this mess of texels has much deeper detail in it".

[Nephilim]

is this the reason you owned a genesis over a snes?

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Graphics are all about what you do with them.  There are tons of games that from a technical point of view push so many polygons and have so many effects but still look like crap to me because the graphic design is boring and generic.  I find the look of EA games to be dull as dirt, and that makes sense since EA targets the mainstream and creative, interesting graphics risk turning someone off more than a safe design.

The PSP is a very dull system.  It's full or remakes and ports and quick cash grabs from boring publishers.  It's userbase is also full of tech nuts that MIGHT use it for games sometimes, once in a while.  The DS may be the ideal portable for non-gamers but it's also the ideal portable for hardcore gamers that would prefer to play a game than watch a movie.  So the graphic design on the DS is going to be better.

I used to think realism was the cause of boring graphics but I don't think that's the case anymore.  Capcom and Square Enix often have proportionate characters that look a fair bit like real people.  Shenmue has that.  So does Metal Gear Solid and none of those look dull.  There's some extra factor involved that I can't put my finger on in making a proportionate human character look interesting or dull.  Whatever it is EA REALLY sucks at it.

People should bookmark this. Not only is this a great post, but Ian actually bashes the PSP! *gasp*

[ShyGuy]

I think I may need to figure out this realistic but not dull paradox. Has anyone read Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud? He has an art pyramid diagram in the book with realism, cartoon/meaning and abstract as the three points. I think that may be applicable.  

[KDR_11k]

Quote
Originally posted by: DeadlyD
is this the reason you owned a genesis over a snes?

I never had a Megadrive and from what I heard so far that system sounds HORRIBLE. Seriously, even the C64 had more convincing sounds, with the Megadrive it's all mushy bloops that don't even resemble the music they're trying to play.

Also both systems use pixels.