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« Last post by Khushrenada on December 17, 2024, 09:26:01 AM »
Oh wow. This right here is like a blast from the past. What forum posting used to be like 20 years ago. People coming up with ideas about what direction they'd like to see a game character or series take in the future and their ideas for a hypothetical sequel. Passion for a character they love on full display. I love it!
And I must say, you have opened my eyes on Yoshi potential. Yoshi games have sort of become pretty codified and static nowadays all based off SMW2 and, as a result, it seems to have caused the character to be stuck in this gaming rut as though that's all Yoshi can do. When Rare took Donkey Kong and made DKC and followed that up quickly with another couple DKC games, it totally changed what a Donkey Kong game could be and created a far more interesting world and franchise compared to another use of DK in the Mario vs DK series. You talk about Donkey Kong in 3D and yet the only game we've gotten like that is DK64 which is now 25 years ago. I absolutely enjoyed what Rare did with bringing DK to the world of 3D but it's been back to 2D ever since.
In fact, reading your post just made me start thinking about how much Nintendo has ended up sticking with 2D for so many of their characters after the 64 and GameCube era. At the time when taking franchises into 3D was still a big deal and change for all sorts of franchises, things sort of regressed in that progress. Yoshi never made the jump at all in his series being one of the few to stick in 2D for the 64. Kirby did also but at least played with perspective a bit. It's like Nintendo struggles to make Yoshi work in 3D because they seem to limit his use in the 3D Mario games. You mentioned at the end about Kirby having 3D options but, he's really only got one and that just happened recently. Took over 30 years for that to finally happen. Even then, there were times playing the game where it just felt like a 2D game but just with a wider perspective. In my mind, the only franchises that have stuck to 3D or been very successful are Mario, Zelda, and Metroid and Metroid's been on a sort of 3D hiatus since MP3 or Other M if you count the standing still in first person mode it could switch to. I suppose with Switch, you could add Pokemon but that feels like less of a significant jump considering its sort of like the jump of Zelda 2D to 3D.
Donkey Kong - Reverted to 2D. Barrel Blast is the only other 3D DK game and it's not exactly what one would consider a true DK game. Jungle Beat, King of Swing and Jungle Climber, DKCR and Trop Freeze, Mario Vs DK and, sure, Donkey Konga are all 2D. I guess there is also Diddy Kong Racing but like Barrel Blast it is more of a racing game and its own thing compared to fighting baddies and collecting bananas in platforming challenges.
Kirby - A tease of 3D with Kirby 64. Kirby's Air Ride was 3D but mainly a racing game. (Are racing games going to be a trend here?). With DS, Wii, 3DS, and Wii U, Kirby still stuck to 2D. Not a bad thing. A lot of good Kirby games were made still. Canvas Curse, Mass Attack, Epic Yarn, Return to Dream Land and Planet Robobot were all considered as top Kirby games. But it took Forgotten Land on the Switch for HAL to finally get ambitious enough to try Kirby in 3D. Will he stay there or soon revert back to 2D?
Wario - He hit 3D with Wario World for the GameCube and its an ok game. There's no transformations like in the Wario Land series and using the same wrestling moves to fight enemies loses its charm after awhile. Again, it's sort of like Forgotten Land or maybe Mario 3D Land in that it is 3D but feels more like just a wider perspective of a 2D game. After Wario's brief 3D foray, it was back to 2D for Master of Disguise and Shake it. As well, the WarioWare series took off and all of that is pretty much 2D. However, I would point to the WarioWare series as maybe hope for Yoshi. The Wario series was becoming pretty established in what once considered a Wario game to play like or what the mechanics of it might be like. There had been 4 Wario Land games and Wario World definitely follows some of that expectation but then WarioWare just suddenly appeared and gave Wario a new outfit / look and a new cast of characters around him as he suddenly was now about trying to make a quick buck as a video game maker. It still seems all kind of odd for him perhaps because there's never really been anything done to flesh out the WarioWare setting more or show him and those other characters like Mona or Ashley as hanging out together or being involved in any kind of adventure together. They're just all so shaggily joined together. Still, if Wario can be shaken up and given an out of left field new direction then perhaps the same could happen for Yoshi who could drop the baby Marios and Bowsers and Kamaks and embark in a bold new 3D adventure.
F-Zero - Oooh. Now we're opening up old wounds. DK and Kirby had 3D racing games because racing in 3D is a pretty natural fit. After F-Zero made the leap to 3D on the 64, it went back to 2D for the Advance but not a big deal since that's what that system was capable of. Mario Kart also dropped to 2D on it. Then we got F-Zero GX and the pinnacle of the series showing what an F-Zero game in 3D could be capable of. Nintendo followed up with two more 2D games on the Advance and dropping the series forever. How can we expect 3D Yoshi when Nintendo can't even do 3D racing games like F-Zero?
Star Fox - This is a weird one. Really all the games have been 3D since the 64. Nintendo did finally release Star Fox 2 when doing the SNES but since that was designed for the SNES and held onto for all this time, I wouldn't count that as the series going back to 2D. However, because the Star Fox series has usually stuck to on-rails levels, it doesn't often feel like its that different from being in 2D or the idea of 3D one has of being able to move around in whatever direction you wish to explore. The series has thrown in a few All-Range mode / levels in 64 and Assault but they're usually pretty small contained areas and the on-rails stuff still outnumbers them. StarFox Adventures might be the only game that really fits the 3D bill here in that you do have big levels and worlds to explore in 3D but you mostly lose the whole arwing combat part of the series in this jump to 3D. On the Arwing combat side, StarFox Command is oddly the closest the series got to 3D arial combat in that pretty much most of the flying is in small 3D zones to fight. The problem comes in that those flying combat zones start to feel pretty repetitive after awhile as though the developers struggled with ideas for what to do with having combat in a 3D space. I guess I often think about this series and contrast it to Star Wars: Rogue Squadron on the 64 and GameCube. There's a series with 3D arial combat and they made it feel like you were in large areas and kept the combat engaging and nothing Star Fox has done has compared to those games. After Command, we basically got two remakes of Star Fox 64. One for the 3DS and Zero for the Wii U. Again, a series with potential that Nintendo seems unable to figure out how to make it work in actual 3D combat like Rogue Squadron could do 13 years ago.
Earthbound - This series is most likely done and a new entry seems highly unlikely at this point. That's fine as not every series or game idea needs endless sequels. But, at one point, it was supposed to have a sequel on the 64 and then it all fell apart for whatever reason and instead got a sequel done in the same 2D style on the advance with Mother 3 and that was the end of it. Again, 3D failed with a franchise.
Kid Icarus - Only one game in the series was made after the N64 came on the scene and that was Uprising for 3DS. It sort of brought the series into 3D in a Star Fox like way. While all the characters and backgrounds are 3D, the arial combat is on rails and pretty static. You can't even move Pit a bit forward or backward during that combat. When you do fight on land then the game opens up into 3D but, once more, it's a very small and limited 3D space pretty and pretty much empty with you just moving around to quickly fire on any enemies that pop up in it. I believe this is another franchise that could see greater potential in further embracing 3D but clearly not a priority for Nintendo.
Fire Emblem - Technically, you can say the game has been in 3D since the GameCube and Path of Radiance. Maps and character combat scenes were using 3D models but its all very limiting. Three Houses embraced a bit more 3D with the Monastery section and being able to walk around and talk to people in it. In the end, though, the series is still tied to moving characters around the tiles of a map to engage them in combat with enemy units on that map. In that regard, I'm not sure how much it could ever move past that into a full engagement.
Punch-Out - Got a Wii entry but stayed true to its 2D roots by just being about the head on fight and ducking and dodging when necessary to get an opening. Nothing done to try something new within the 3D space.
And I think that about wraps up any Nintendo series or franchises before the leap to 3D. On the other hand, most of the stuff that debuted from N64 or later haven't really had this problem.
Pikmin - Debuted in 3D and stayed that way aside from Hey! Pikmin for 3DS.
Battalion Wars - Advance Wars debuted in 2D on the Advance and stayed that way for the DS and now Switch. BW was the 3D take on that series and got a second game on the Wii but has gone dormant since. I kind of liked its take on the AW series and how it found a way to convert that idea into 3D. I'd like to see a revival of it.
Animal Crossing - Debuted on the N64 and has stayed 3D also. Of course, the village your in isn't that big of a 3D world. As this post is suddenly making me very aware of, its surprising just how small of 3D space in games Nintendo has been able to get away with for so long. Mario and Zelda have done a lot of heavy lifting the company in what they do for 3D development.
Paper Mario - It's had fun playing with perspectives but has mostly stayed 3D with Super Paper Mario being the one game that committed more to the 2D form than the rest of the games in the series.
Xenoblade - Debuted in 3D and has stayed that way.
Luigi's Mansion - Debuted in 3D and has stayed that way.
Wave Race - Debuted in 3D and died that way.
1080 Snowboarding - Debuted in 3D and died that way.
I don't know. Maybe there's more I'm forgetting or could think about but, without going through every possible series as I've been typing this for long enough, what struck me when I was reading Caterkiller's first post and then started writing this one is that if a series didn't debut or start in 3D then it has still been a challenge for Nintendo to let an IP move past the 2D roots it started in. Even when they have been successful in 3D like with Mario and Zelda, they still don't want to give up the 2D style those series also excel in. It's just too bad the same thing can't happen with these other older characters and franchises where it seems to be 2D or nothing.
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