Topic: Iwata Comments on Nintendo Next Generation

[Pale]

Did someone just say that the Virtual Boy wasn't real VR?  I swear I heard someone say that...

[Sarail]

Oh, it's definitely some type of gameplay mechanic/control configuration thing then.  Nintendo's looking into the future as to how they can improve controls and gameplay within games.  'Cause yeah, Iwata is right, current gen systems have reached their peak in terms of gameplay.  Graphics still can be improved, but play control is something that can always advance.  Nintendo's got some sort of super, magical trick up its sleeve.  Just wait 'til E3.. then the bomb will drop.  I. Can't. Wait.

[mouse_clicker]

I think what Iwata meant by "the current systems have basically reached their limits" is that each progressive generation has basically been better graphics and bigger games- the jump from the SNES/Genesis to the PSX/N64 was a big one, consider developers suddenly had a whole new dimension to work with, but otherwise nothing new has happened to the industry for a very long time.

[VideoGamerX]

My personal take on Iwata's comments regarding today's consoles reaching their limits was toward gameplay. In a broad brush generalization he is correct in his statement. What many gamers have been complaining about this generation, at least in regardes to Nintendo, is the lack of innovation to their games. In that sense, it is true that we have seen more rehashes with the GameCube than with the N64. This is indicated by sales and the overall lack of hype.

Aside from Wind Waker and Metroid Prime, can anybody really say that Nintendo's games have branched out and done something truly unique relative to past iterations of said franchise? Not really. Not even Wind Waker was leaps and bounds different from Ocarina of Time. Likewise, the Wind Waker's sequel will be using the same game engine and probably won't offer a totally unique experience.

This 'rehash' generation was especially prevelant with Super Mario Sunshine - and the infamous debate that was spurred over the disappointment in the game's lack of innovation. The gameplay mechanics were mostly identical to Super Mario 64. The primary difference being the water pump and enhancements was frequently referred to as "the gimmick" despite the profound effect it had on gameplay and level design, which in itself was a unique experience for a Mario game. Conglomerating those thoughts and feelings, Super Mario Sunshine really did look and feel like an enhanced Mario 64 - there is no denying that.

What we see all across the industry is a wealth of rehashes and updates. This is more true in the sports genre than anywhere else, and to further iterate this point there are no other games that sell more than the sports franchises. Not even Final Fantasy sells more than the wealth of yearly updates on the #1 sports titles. With this in mind, there is a danger that resides in the current model of sports games because they don't appear to have a great deal of direction to head in regarding change. They're already in 3D. Where else do you go with such sophisticated and detailed polygon models. They can continue to become more life-like, but that's purely a graphics issue and not a gameplay topic. In terms of gameplay, they can't really offer anything new or exciting.

I have suggested many times that the side-scrolling games should find their place on the consoles (we already saw some of this in Viewtiful Joe), but that in itself is simply rehashing old ground too. Some freshness and variety is needed, though, or the industry will get stale as a whole.

In previous statements, if any of you will recall, Iwata has mentioned more than once his feeling toward the industry and the concern over a collapse. I maybe misquoting or providing misinformation, but this is not a detail I think I would confuse, so correct or support me in my claim to verify this. With his recent statement to the newspaper that printed the story, in light of his feelings about the gaming industry reaching its "limit" and the possibility of a market fall, I would expect something to enhance gameplay. With Nintendo's recent experiments in the realm of multiplayer, it wouldn't be a far reach to see them implementing their own ideas for multiplayer experience that fall outside of the internet. If it's going to be a console enhancement, one can only imagine what they have in mind. If it's massive multiplayer it will have to be more cost effective than internet connection. Anything else will have to have mainstream effects to escape 'gimmick' status. Donkey Konga already uses drums for example.

If it's not a graphical enhancement, one has only so many areas to explore in gameplay. I can't help but feel multiplayer can and should play a role at least in terms of how we interact with our gaming buddies. At the same time, what's there in multiplayer that hasn't been/isn't being/won't be exploited in the present or near future? My pondering ramblings can go no further than anyone else's.

They do need to make this a significant piece of hardware. If it doesn't reach mainstream, it'll be a failure in more than one way, in my opinion. If it's a big gimmick, I can't lie... I'll steadily lose my faith in their credibility for pulling stunts like this. I still think the world of Nintendo, but it seems like no one hypes their gimmicks like Nintendo does.

[RABicle]

Quote
In previous statements, if any of you will recall, Iwata has mentioned more than once his feeling toward the industry and the concern over a collapse. I maybe misquoting or providing misinformation, but this is not a detail I think I would confuse, so correct or support me in my claim to verify this.

I cant verify it for you, I cant recall reading his thought on the industry but it doesn't take a genious to notice that the industry is on it's knees. And this relates to Iwata stating that the current systems have reached their limits. So listen up.
Over the past few years we've been hearing two loud trends in the video game industry. 1. Sales/Revenue is going up and surpassing the hollywood box office. 2. Companies are going broke, (hundreds of examples) being swallowed, (EA are hungry) laying off employees, (Midway is the most recent example) reporting losses (Nintendo) etc. etc.
So how can an industry that's seemingly growing quickly be crumbling? I think it's two things, rising development costs, and overdevelopment. Games cost HUGE amounts of money to make these days. HUGE. And companies are suffering. They wot make a game that wont sell, so they wont try anything new, and if something doesn't sell after they did make it, spending millions in the process, they've failed big time, suffering huge losses. If the next console generation leap is as big as the last one, then you will only see developmetn times and costs soar higher. Games will need better graphics, which will take longer to make, so you have to pay your employees for longer. The graphics need better engines to draw them and so on. Nintendo shoot themselves in the foot by making a more powerful machine, because in the end they have to spend more money just using it. PSX owners might remember Net Yazooie or something, basically it was a homebrew development of playstation and a good game would be shoved on demo disks. Why isn't there one for PS2? Well self taght programmers dont have millions of dollars just to make a tetris clone anymore.
The other problem, Overdevelopment is most evident in the MMORPG market. At first it was just Ultima Online and Everquest and a few others. Then it started getting ridiculous and there are now dozens of games on the market and in development, most struggling to survive. I mean, we gamers only have a finite amount of time/money to play/pay for these games, we cant keep buying them.

I think with this Third console Nitnendo wants to do something to eliminate these problems and get themselves and their industry back on it's feet. Just dont ask me what could do it. I say we just blame the whole capaitalist system .

[KDR_11k]

If it was to make development cheaper it'd probably be some kind of workflow enhancing input device/program. That can speed you up a lot, back when I started with ~500 polies it took me just as long to make a model as now with the 3-4k range. Blender IS much faster than anything I've used before and oncethey include Mirai-style modeling I'll get my next speed boost.

[Cowboy Bebop]

I keep getting more and more excited by this.

NES = brings arcade level games into the home.
SNES = refinement of 2d games.
N64 = brings games into 3d.
GC = refinement of 3d games.
N5 = , brings game control into 3d?

[Ian Sane]

"Well, keep in mind, the industry is bound to peak in technological progression sooner or later, and be formed under a single, universal platform."

I doubt that's going to happen any time soon because right now all three "standards" are owned entirely by single companies that don't plan on sharing.  Whenever a standard is decided it is one that can be used by everyone.  Nintendo, MS, and Sony, at least right now, are not going to allow others to make their consoles and are going to make developers pay fees to develop for their console.  Right now if there was only one console it wouldn't be a standard it would be a monopoly.  If there was a true videogame standard then anyone could make the hardware and anyone could release a game on it.

I don't really get this "today's consoles have reached their limit" BS.  They haven't reached their limit and you know why?  Because I have thought of a couple of feasible game ideas that would work on the current hardware that are reasonably unique and I'm not a game designer.  So either I'm a creative genius or developers, including Nintendo, are just being lazy.  New concepts are available, developers are just playing it too safe.  The current game ideas still can be expanded as well.  F-Zero GX for example could have had a track editor.  Pikmin, Animal Crossing, and Warioware are all reasonably unique game concepts that are still growing and have tons of potential.  Maybe if Nintendo stopped making so many damn Mario spinoffs they would realize that there is much more that can be done with the current hardware.

And there's also a very logical tool for innovation that will be able to become a standard next generation: online gaming.  That form of gameplay hasn't really been given a chance to take off and there's TONS of potential there.  The industry doesn't need a new "pillar" or whatever to stay innovative.  It needs a company to show an example by innovating with the current hardware.  So quit making another f*cking Mario Party game, Nintendo, and BE THAT EXAMPLE.

[ObsidianDragon]

Quote
Over the past few years we've been hearing two loud trends in the video game industry. 1. Sales/Revenue is going up and surpassing the hollywood box office. 2. Companies are going broke, (hundreds of examples) being swallowed, (EA are hungry) laying off employees, (Midway is the most recent example) reporting losses (Nintendo) etc. etc.

This is simple Micro Economic's really. It's called long-run equalibruim of a monopolistic competitive market. Basically it means profits are decresing for each individual company, but overall the industry is growing. This is because there are many entry-level companies absorbing the profits that were once shared by less companies. this trend will continue until one of the following occurs:

1: Profits drop totally and no company reports any profit over along term period (fiscal year) thus making companies drop out of the industry, which creates more profits for the remaining companies to share.

Or

2: Innovation of the current product re-vitalizes the market for a few specific companies. This draws more profit to those companies and takes it away from other causing same businesses to drop out of the market or merge with existing companies.

and then the process restarts. Rinse Lather Repeat.

On another note:

Quote
NES = brings arcade level games into the home.
SNES = refinement of 2d games.
N64 = brings games into 3d.
GC = refinement of 3d games.
N5 = , brings game control into 3d?

If you follow the current trend of major consoles, this is bound to happen. It is an innovation that would seriously alter gameplay as we know it and open up a whole new range of ideas. also it would be the introduction into possibly next-gen VR. Of all the possibilities, this seems the most groundbreaking. weather or not it is true (or even possible) is another story.  

[PaLaDiN]

I agree with Iwata... systems have pretty much reached their limits.

I look at PC games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Doom 3, Half-Life 2, whatever... and I really don't see how games can get any much better graphically than that. Not only that, but I really don't care if they can.

How about Wind Waker? You cannot make better graphics for that game... it has its own unique style, almost like anime. How about Cubivore?

What I'm getting at is, the technology we have now is more than sufficient to make games look like whatever you want them to look like. The problem starts when people obsess over why another game looks better, in their opinion. There is no arbitrary set of rules deciding the victor in a graphics competition. If you have two games, all it comes down to graphically is how much the art style of each game appeals to you. Talking about bump-mapping, unilateral shadowing, whatever... it's all irrelevant, it's all just desperate rationalizations for your opinion of why a game looks better than others, it's you trying to judge a painting by the quality of the paints used.

There's also way too much emphasis placed on how much games draw you in with their atmosphere, how much they feel real, how believable they seem. That isn't why I play games. If I'm playing a game, I'm drawn in already, I've been drawn in ever since the NES days... now hit me with the gameplay, dammit.

[BigJim]

If Iwata meant systems are reaching their limits in terms of gameplay OR technology, there is some validity to both points. The GameCube is basically the N64's big brother, just like the SNES was to NES. It was the SNES-to-N64 transition that was a big leap.

Now, I think Nintendo is saying it's time to find that next big leap. That big leap won't come in the form of DVD playback, wireless controllers, hard drives, etc. Those are all nice things, but it's not the next level.

Whatever the product is, I hope it doesn't fall under the category of "gimmick" like so many other of Nintendo's products have. This needs to be so compelling, yet natural, that when people see and understand it, they'll know it's the "next" future of gaming. And it will be the N5 trojan horse. They HOPE.

My Idea:

People thinking VR are probably thinking too hard. I feel that there is an online implementation still being planned here. It could be a simple GBA-like device that connects to a network, and plays like a Game Boy, but is actually a game service, with no actual game media to buy. It'd be strictly online-based and would download data as needed.

The part that gives a clue about the N5's direction is that the N5 could have a more advanced cable-based game service. Elimination of the publishers -- one of the industry's long-term goals starting to be realized.

Anybody else remember Sony wanting the PS3 to be broadband-based and without media? It sounded silly 2 years ago when they first said it, huh?  

[ObsidianDragon]

Quote
People thinking VR are probably thinking too hard. I feel that there is an online implementation still being planned here. It could be a simple GBA-like device that connects to a network, and plays like a Game Boy, but is actually a game service, with no actual game media to buy. It'd be strictly online-based and would download data as needed.

The part that gives a clue about the N5's direction is that the N5 could have a more advanced cable-based game service. Elimination of the publishers -- one of the industry's long-term goals starting to be realized.

Anybody else remember Sony wanting the PS3 to be broadband-based and without media? It sounded silly 2 years ago when they first said it, huh?

This is still very unfeasable though. Broadband internet is not nearly as widespread as you think it is, and without that this idea is obselete. It would cut the product base to a fraction of what it is now. It may go that way one day when you are able to download gig's of data in a few minutes or even an hour, but until that day cames this will not happen.

and this still does not change gameplay or in fact anything about the current standards of games except how you get them. I think Nintendo is working on something that is aimed to alter the way people look at gaming. The next "big thing"

[BigJim]

Actually, I do know how widespread broadband is. 50 million (38%) of home internet users are on broadband. In 2 years it will be higher (haven't seen those estimates yet). And it doesn't necessarily need to download the entire game before playing begins. There is also a trend in the broadband industry to increase bandwidth due to competition. A lot of cable customers currently getting 1 mbps have been or will be upgraded to 3 or more in the next year. That may very well continue as well.

That being said, if it were a cable-based service, it's not necessarily internet/IP based. And I didn't say the complete removal of publishers. There could still be disc-based media as well.

Whether or not it changes gameplay in and of itself, that may be true, but we don't yet know what Nintendo has in store for online-based games either. We DO know that they said they will be going online, so they're most likely going to try to find the most unique and effective implementation they possibly can. Going through cable is the most natural way to do so since we're already playing in front of the TV.

[odifiend]

I hate to be a killjoy but the new product is not the successor to any Nintendo system.  Yet Iwata said he expects it to be a 3rd pillar next to the GCN and GBA.  Sadly I don't see how that can be.  GBA is huge because the GameBoy has had a strangle hold on the portable industry for two decades with only short lasting competitors.  So the GBA is a portable device we all love to play while the GCN is the fourth decesdant of the NES, it is Nintendo's home console, something Nintendo has always released.  This 3rd pillar, where could it truly fit in? If the thing is portable, Nintendo will be cannabalizing GBA sales and if it isn't, it will be cannabalizing the already dismal GCN sales- leading me to believe it is a gimmick.  How is it going to stand alone? Iwata says it can interact with both the GBA and the GCN? Well so could the e-Reader and we know what a roaring success that was.  
Even if the "new thing" isn't an embarassing gimmick, how can we expect it to change the industry.  VR would be cool but that sounds more like an N5 project.  Even if this was an impressive successor to the Virtual Boy, just like the GBA, it would be used like a gimmick when interfacing with the GCN because 3rd parties are not going to take the time to let this thing play a large part in a ported game- too much development time for the port that will probably sell the least.  Worse yet it won't even have the huge fan base or the huge library the GBA has.
Many of you might try to push FF:CC to justify good interfacing, but that is a (yet to be determined) success because1) it is square (Nintendo trying to get back on their good side and being incredibly cooperative).  2) it is square (the company is a monster and its name ensures quality).  Besides that is one game out of many that have connectivity and I don't see Nintendo being that cooperative with every 3rd party to make a good GBA-GCN game.  Let alone a 3rd pillar-GCN game.
Still I hope I'm horribly wrong and Nintendo delivers on even half the hype, it is arousing on these boards.

[Bill Aurion]

How about you wait and see what this thing is before making assumptions?...

[odifiend]

Sadly I'm using history to support my assumptions

[mistaswen]

I beleive this is what Iwata meant when he mentioned that "systems have reached their limits" which was how a member of your forum put it:

"What I'm getting at is, the technology we have now is more than sufficient to make games look like whatever you want them to look like. "  I beleive he meant it from a technology standpoint.  Just remember this.  Why get a new beer unless your not done with the one you have in your hand (ok so that doesnt make any sense right now and im jonesing for a drink but bear with me). Nintendos next hardware will be more powerfull than the gamecube but since we havent tapped into all of Gamecube capabilities, there really isnt that big of a need of an improvement (in graphical power).  Lets say were only using 3 4ths of its power.  If we havent gotten everything that we could have, what good is bringing out more hardware just for the hell of it.  What nintendo wants to do is make sure that ITS ADVANCING ON A GAMEPLAY STANDPOINT as they need to.  Not just a graphical one.  This is why thers a need for the Mystery Machine.  Nintendo's own Miyamoto and Iwata have been saying that they personaly didnt like the fact that in games like Zelda, the game player would go over to a lever and press a button which would make Link perform an action.  What they want is for the gameplayer to actually pull down levers or hit swithes themeselves somehow. They which to "enable fun and movement not seen before". Comments like these lead me to beleive that theis new game product will be some sort of sensor (technology that is used in light guns) where the player would point a device and their television or use thier hands to actually have to move and perform actions in the game.  On the subject of "Marionette" which Miyamoto said was in development.  he mentioned that it was not a new mario game or had nothing to do with Nintendo going online but was actually a marionette game where the game player would use a marionette as a controler instead of the gamepad.  With comment like "this will be the year that we put up a serious fight with this new product" it makes me feel that whatever nintendo has up its sleeve, its confident that it WILL work and be entertaining to "anyone who plays it".  Whatever it is i will be BIG.  Not just another Pokemon mini or Donky Konga.  Remember Nintento wants it to become "a third piller to the Gamecube and GBA."  And it will be a hint for things to come on the next hardware.   IM SORRY IF THIS DIDNT MAKE ALOT OF SENSE OR IF ITS CONFUSING.  IM A REPORTER NOT A WRITER (AND IM CANADIAN EH).  LOL.  Later

[MattVDB]

Ok, so I was reading through all the posts here when it hit me.  I don't know if this will be true/ holds any validity at all/ or what, but think with me.

They developed the reliable radio tech for the wavebird.  It runs off of AA bateries and last quite a while.  Why not up the power, stap it to the bottom of a console, and have radio (didn't this get mentioned earlier?) brodcasts link systems together.  I know a ton of people who would jump on this.  Many towers now days broadcast over miles of land, so why not your console?  Granted, it doesn't beat internet, and you don't get as many people in, but picture clans meeting weekly "on-broadcast" to play a round of Smash Bros.  I see it highly possible as they would also be able to control pricing of it, somthing they are striving to find for internet play.

Just an idea, regardless of whether or not it is the announcemnet.  Maybe for a later date or console.  Interesting idea none the less.

[Kyosho]

I can see the radio thing being possible < 2 miles.  But anything more than that, will be too inefficient and not worth it.  In fact, that should be an alternative solution to networking Gamecubes across a LAN.  

[ThePerm]

maybe the mystery device is some standalone dance machine

[PaLaDiN]

Maybe it's a toilet with an armrest screen and a slot for putting in GC games. I dub it the WC.

Now you're playing with Power. Especially if you're constipated.

[ThePerm]

man did i have to take a weird crap today....it was mushy and cloggy..its like having fluid poop and being constipated....i ate a ton of rice yesterday.....

[DarkSyphor]

But  really nintendo never actully was realeasd in china so thats why they had rumors that it was realesd in china

[FroM ThA GamEcAve]

Of  all the people in here replying i can't believe that only one person spoke of VR (not your average  Virtual boy)  A few years ago i stumbeled upon an article talking about Super Mario Sunshine and Zelda :tww being set with a certian type of rendering trick that makes the 3D worlds appear sharper on a 3D headset..... Think how the styles of both games make them really jump off the screen!.  Without a 3D- immersion headset paint globs flying over our head with a 3dh would be bada$$!!!!!. I am certian that even with the next gen of consoles we won't see a tremendous jump in the visuals dept.It'll just be a little cleaner overall. A smart console manufacturer would be looking into ways to immerse the player into the game with more than just a controller. Nintendo has tried this before and will not rest with their first failed attempt. when we are looking at the planet ZEEBS with a REAL 1ST person perspective we will see the game in a way that just staring at a tv screen just dosen't compare to. Our memories of painful red and black insanity will dissipate.   Gyroscopic view adjustment would be a must (built right into the headset) allowing you to move your head and be looking around this virtual world without the input of a button command. I am certian that Nintendo will be releasing info on this to coincide with their newest system just remember you heard it form the GaMeCaVe  first!!!!

[the whatz that?]

i a way, i agree with Iwata...  Think about, simple always seems to be a selling point now.  He is also quoted as saying that the Japanese market is shrinking in terms of gaming and US growth was much smaller than predicted.  Games used to have simple goals and all about the fun, thats why FPSs are so popular IMHO.  I don't know about you, but im tired of collected 50 of this, and 70 of that, and oh yeah: now i need to take pictures of fairies WTF?  We need something simple yet entertaining, altho i think the N is just building hype for itself, i hope this opens up new gameplay...

as for a completely downloadable game thing, think about the Sega Channel(i know this more of a rental thing than anything) but it wasn't very popular.  And we have the fastest residential cable modem service available in our area and it's very fast, but i still would rather drive to the store and pick my copy of game x and play it when i got home - rather than waiting for about 3 gig to download(which i'll have to pay for anyway, it cost about 49 cents to make a DVD, which why they were so cheap when they want them to hit mainstream) which will probably be the average size of the good games when they come out - or more.  You got this big think about adding loads of sound tracks, graphics getting larger, ect...  (and broadband isnt' as popular as one might think)