Author Topic: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law  (Read 7644 times)

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Offline Crimm

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The 2004 law sought to ban the sale of violent video games to minors.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/26975

The Supreme Court today refused to overturn a ruling against California law that would have banned the sale and rental to minors of games determined violent. The 2004 law would have imposed a $1000 fine on retailers for each offense of the law. 

The case, Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association (filed as Schwarzenegger v. EMA),  was originally decided in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. The Court upheld the ruling on First Amendment rights of free speech and free expression.

The 7-2 opinion rejected the state's argument that there was compelling governmental interest in preventing minors from obtaining violent video games. California asserted that the law would help parents prevent the perceived psychological harm they content comes from interacting with violent material rather than just consuming it passively.

In the opinion, Justice Antonin Scalia noted that the law would create a new category of unprotected speech, rather than "adjust[ing] the boundaries of an existing category of unprotected speech." The court took issue with the creation of such a category, noting that any such restriction would have to pass strict scrutiny. The strict scrutiny test states that restrictions of constitutional rights must be justified by a compelling governmental interest, be narrowly tailored to that interest, and achieve that interest via the least restrictive means.

The California law fails all three criteria. 

The court noted that the state was unable to illustrate the governmental interest, "[the state] acknowledges that it cannot show a direct causal link between violent video games and harm tor minors." The studies presented by the state were determined to be unpersuasive and the effect violent video games had on children were "both small and indistinguishable from effects produced by other media."

The law is also not sufficiently narrow to pass scrutiny. The state justified the law as a "means of aiding parental authority," in selecting what media their children consume. The legislation only meets that goal when discussing parents "who care whether they purchase violent video games...its entire effect is only in support of what the State thinks parents ought to want." The ruling concluded that this failure of the justification to apply in all cases renders it insufficiently narrow.

Lastly, the court found that the means the state used to achieve the goal are not the "least restrictive" available. It noted that the ESRB's voluntary rating system "already achieves that to a large extent."

This case is the latest victory for the Entertainment Merchants Association and the Entertainment Software Association, who were also party to the case. Similar cases have struck down laws in Michigan, Illinois, Louisiana, Minnesota, Washington State, and Oklahoma

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Offline Ceric

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2011, 01:51:33 PM »
Quote
California asserted that the law would help parents prevent the perceived psychological harm they content comes from interacting with violent material rather than just consuming it passively.

You know being a Parent helps with that.  If you need this type of law then you have other problems or time issues.

I mean, where are the laws to stop parents from buying and subjecting their kids to terrible videogames? That can be way more harmful. Ex. Crimm  :{P
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Offline King of Twitch

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2011, 01:55:09 PM »
These guys work hard for long periods away from their families with almost no light, they deserve a break like this.
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Offline Enner

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2011, 01:57:07 PM »
This was a lot of fuss over a 2x2 inch sticker and a retailer fine. (Sarcastically ignoring the discussion of constitutional rights.) I'm happy with the court's decision.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 02:01:47 PM by Enner »

Offline TalesOfFan

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2011, 02:00:11 PM »
Quote
California asserted that the law would help parents prevent the perceived psychological harm they content comes from interacting with violent material rather than just consuming it passively.

You know being a Parent helps with that.  If you need this type of law then you have other problems or time issues.

I mean, where are the laws to stop parents from buying and subjecting their kids to terrible videogames? That can be way more harmful. Ex. Crimm  :{P
Agreed, I'm really bothered whenever a government decides to pass laws to "protect" their citizens form material that they deem objectionable.  All legislation like this does is curtail our already dwindling freedoms.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2011, 02:01:43 PM »
This was a lot of fuss over a 2x2 inch sticker and a retailer fine. I'm happy with the court's decision.
True but, it also opens up the X rated games debate again in a way.  If games are free speech then X rated games should be treated like Porn and be allowed to be made and sold.  Though... I can't really think of anything X Rated I would want to get without some accessory or something...

Quote
California asserted that the law would help parents prevent the perceived psychological harm they content comes from interacting with violent material rather than just consuming it passively.

You know being a Parent helps with that.  If you need this type of law then you have other problems or time issues.

I mean, where are the laws to stop parents from buying and subjecting their kids to terrible videogames? That can be way more harmful. Ex. Crimm  :{P
Agreed, I'm really bothered whenever a government decides to pass laws to "protect" their citizens form material that they deem objectionable.  All legislation like this does is curtail our already dwindling freedoms.
Seriously... Where are my laws to help me with things like wages vs Inflation or Contract Fine Print.  This type of thing would only be an issue if say they were showing the game and what made it M in the middle of Time Square or in School...
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 02:03:46 PM by Ceric »
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Offline MegaByte

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2011, 02:03:37 PM »
They are allowed (AO rating), but generally the retailers or platform holders refuse them.
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Offline shinyray01

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2011, 02:50:06 PM »
TAKE THAT FOX NEWS!!!!

Offline Crimm

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2011, 05:27:03 PM »
I toyed with including more of the decent in the story, but I didn't have time to read the entire court ruling. So for reference, it's broken into two arguments:




Conservative Argument (Clarence Thomas): The founders never enshrined the right to speak to children without their parents' consent. He writes of Jefferson's correspondence with his children on how best to act and similar non-legal documents of the era.


Liberal Argument (Anthony Kennedy): I agree with California. Games are worse than books.



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Offline Ceric

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2011, 05:30:03 PM »
I don't know what to say.  Stupid Hippy, Unhip Tightwad?  Is this a case of the extremes touching....
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Offline Crimm

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2011, 05:31:23 PM »
Samuel Alito filed a concurring opinion (for you non-legal scholars, that means he voted with the majority but he has either different reasons or has points he wanted to elaborate on) that can be explained thus: I agree that California's statue does not pass strict scrutiny required here, however I am not as certain as they seem to be that video games are no different in effect than other violent media.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2011, 05:33:49 PM »
Samuel Alito filed a concurring opinion (for you non-legal scholars, that means he voted with the majority but he has either different reasons or has points he wanted to elaborate on) that can be explained thus: I agree that California's statue does not pass strict scrutiny required here, however I am not as certain as they seem to be that video games are no different in effect than other violent media.
A good opinion.  It is a more interactive form of entertainment.

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Offline Crimm

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2011, 05:43:30 PM »
Samuel Alito filed a concurring opinion (for you non-legal scholars, that means he voted with the majority but he has either different reasons or has points he wanted to elaborate on) that can be explained thus: I agree that California's statue does not pass strict scrutiny required here, however I am not as certain as they seem to be that video games are no different in effect than other violent media.
A good opinion.  It is a more interactive form of entertainment.

I still haven't figured out what you actually do for a living Crimm...


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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2011, 06:07:29 PM »
I don't see a reason to object to this ruling. Just as kids shouldn't be able to wander down to the theater and buy a ticket for a movie which obviously wasn't made for them to watch (without their parents consent), then I wouldn't want them to wander down to the local mall, and buy some game I've probably specifically told them they couldn't buy, just because grandpa gave them some money for their b-day.

Parents can't be there 24/7 to hover over their children. It's quite common for both parents to actually have to go to work to support their family, so a little help from the government to stop retailers from enabling misbehaving/defiant/impressionable kids from doing things that they shouldn't be doing behind their parents back is all good to me.
It's not like the parents can't come down to the store and buy the game themselves or just order it online if they don't have the time. It's not like this law is preventing kids from playing M rated games nor is this preventing the store from selling M rated games.
It's just preventing stores from selling them to kids that obviously shouldn't be playing them without some sort of parental consent.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2011, 06:17:32 PM »
Most stores have their own policies not to sell M-rated games to minors. This ruling doesn't stop those, it just means that the government can't enforce it as a law, as it would be unconstitutional.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2011, 06:23:16 PM »
I just realized that I read the ruling wrong. They ruled against charging retailer for selling to minors.
I thought they upheld a ruling to charge retailers.

apply that to my previous post as I'm too lazy to fix it.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2011, 09:42:47 PM »
On the one hand I am against censorship, so its good this was over ruled. But on the other hand I really hate playing online multiplayer in games like COD when its a bunch of kids. I'd rather just play with adults, because kids are usually annoying and generally suck so I don't want them on my team. Bottom line is I don't care if kids play violent video games, but I just don't want them to be on my team if they do because then they drag me down with them. Its okay if they are on the enemy team, though.  ;)
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Offline Crimm

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2011, 12:01:19 AM »
I don't see a reason to object to this ruling. Just as kids shouldn't be able to wander down to the theater and buy a ticket for a movie which obviously wasn't made for them to watch (without their parents consent), then I wouldn't want them to wander down to the local mall, and buy some game I've probably specifically told them they couldn't buy, just because grandpa gave them some money for their b-day.

Which would be true, except all laws regarding the sale of movie tickets are, like the ESRB, a result of an industry-run voluntary system. The decision not to sell tickets to ages not in compliance with the rating was done by the industry, and is not a law. A law designed to do this would immediately be killed in the lower courts, using Brown v. EMA as their justification.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2011, 12:29:26 PM »
I don't really have a problem with restricting minors from buying M-rated games.  My problem is entirely that I figure if we give them an inch, they'll take a mile and we'll start getting talk about outright banning violent videogames or other forms of government censorship.  Freedom of speech is so important that it's not worth compromising on.  The second you let the government make the call about what artistic expression should or shouldn't be allowed, you open the door for them to decide what opinions or thoughts should or shouldn't be allowed.  I don't trust that if we gave them this, which is not unreasonable in theory, that that'll be the end of it.  They'll push for more.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2011, 04:21:48 PM »
There's not really any good solid evidence that violent video games are harmful. Does playing Halo make a kid more likely to bring a gun to school and commit a massacre? There are millions of people who play violent games and they don't go out and do stuff like that. I think its easier to just blame video games, because the real problems like bullying and so on require more effort to tackle, but that's what needs to be done. If you look at things like Columbine it seems like every single time the kids who snapped were the ones who were bullied. Sure, they might have played violent video games too, but does anyone honestly think the video games were more of a factor than the bullying? I sure don't.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2011, 04:36:05 PM »
There's not really any good solid evidence that violent video games are harmful. Does playing Halo make a kid more likely to bring a gun to school and commit a massacre? There are millions of people who play violent games and they don't go out and do stuff like that. I think its easier to just blame video games, because the real problems like bullying and so on require more effort to tackle, but that's what needs to be done. If you look at things like Columbine it seems like every single time the kids who snapped were the ones who were bullied. Sure, they might have played violent video games too, but does anyone honestly think the video games were more of a factor than the bullying? I sure don't.
Its probably the other way around.  That the Bullying encouraged the Video Game playing.  Bullying should be ban... Oh wait....
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: US Supreme Court Upholds Ruling Against California Video Games Law
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2011, 05:20:53 PM »
I argue that someone naturally interested in violence is going to want to play violent videogames.  Sometimes you hear connections between rapists and porno.  Well if you were a rapist would it not make sense that you would probably also like porn?  Same thing here.  If you're a violent lunatic gorey movies and videogames and such are going to be right up your alley.  The connection is not one of causation.  It's backwards where one's violent tendencies leads them to a natural interest in violent media.

The Columbine shooters played Doom?  Back then EVERYONE played Doom!  For boys that age back in 1999 it would be more weird if they weren't fans of Doom.