Topic: Analysts Recommend Nintendo Turn Third-Party

[Grey Ninja]

Sorry, I haven't really followed this thread too much, as I am sure that there are things being said in here that I violently disagree with, and I am not in the mood to have an in depth discussion of the subject right now.  Maybe after a while.

Anyways, commenting on the article itself, I found it quite interesting that they praised Xbox for having such a great online strategy, while they implied Nintendo was doomed because they had no real online plans.  They never thought to consider that maybe Nintendo has a better sense of what gamers want than they do.

Here is a poll on GameFAQs about how many gamers can't live without online games.  Almost 46000 people voted.  Also keep in mind that every one of these people has internet access of some sort.
http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.asp?poll=1170

Is online gaming really a sure thing at this point in time?  Maybe.  You tell me.

[RickPowers]

Ninja,

Or as Justin says in his comments on the site itself, maybe it's because the people that wrote the report are BROADBAND ANALYSTS.

Anyway, I just find it very interesting that those of you that are taking Nintendo to task in THIS thread, proclaiming doom and gloom for Nintendo (which we only posted due to the preposterousness of it, I might add), are completely ignoring this one where the numbers to back up our site are clearly posted.  

[bonestormer]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I for one wouldn't mind at all if Nintendo went 3rd party (or 2nd). No one doubts they are very profitable now, but with even Nintendo admitting that sales haven't met expectations, can they keep being profitable using the same business model as in the past? I'd say that's a big question mark in the ever changing market.

But even if they can be, is it worth it? The article doesn't say Nintendo is in danger of going bankrupt. I don't think any fool would suggest that. But just maybe if they did go 3rd party, they could make even more money then they are now! More money that could then be reinvested to bring us better and better games. And with N not having to worry about hardware, they would have more resources to spend on software.

No matter how good N's software is, I personally feel that PS2 and Xbox have better marketing, image, hardware, and other non-software related areas. So IMO if N would go 3rd party or hook up with one of these, it would be better for all.

Saddly I don't think N is going 3rd party any time soon. Just as a big fan of Nintendo, I almost wish they would.

[StarBlue]

Hey All,

I have been around since the Atari 2600 and along the way there are a lot of console manufacturers that don't exist anymore.  I am sure we all know many of them, SEGA is by far the most recent and most dramatic.  Nintendo has a lot of loyal fans out there that fight to keep Nintendo from joining the ranks of Coleco, Atari, and SEGA; it is too painful for a lot of us to contemplate.  However, I watched these companies sink and there is something that I see with Nintendo that I did not see with the others.  Atari, SEGA, Coleco had massive debt and there was no way for them to dig out of it.  SEGA realized this and decided at the last moment to jump ship and become a third party.  Also I feel with SEGA is that they still make management mistakes that still to this day cause SEGA not to be around in 5 years(ie taking on EA in sports titles), their debt is better but only barely.  Nintendo makes mistakes too, I feel that Nintendo of America does not do a good job of telling NCL WHAT IS WRONG!!!  Is this from all of the talent that left NOA??  I don't know but I am a professional IT engineer and I know how Microsoft works.  If any of you have been to Redmond, you know that NOA and Microsoft are about two blocks away from one another.  Microsoft has a lot of money to throw around and they do it without regard to who gets in the way.  They know that money has a lot of influence, in getting consumers as well as talent to run the business.  Sony is the same way, this is why those two corporations are some of the largest in the World as well as very successful.  I am not afraid that Nintendo will leave the console market, I am more afraid that I might have to learn Japanese so that I can import and play all of the Miyamoto masterpeices if Nintendo dumps the American and European markets.  Nintendo knows that to survive they have to make a profit, right now that is Japan; Gameboy has no real competition so it makes money eveywhere.
Sony and Microsoft have a lot of public relations groups, I would not be surprised this analysis was sponsered by Microsoft in some way.  The PR groups have ONE goal in mind, discredit each other and Nintendo and they do this by causing image problems just like this report.  Image is a major problem, but if I knew the answer for Nintendo I would be one of those rich CEOs.  Yes it hurts to see the company that gave us so many great games, but it does no good to dis other systems; it just helps to destroy Nintendo.  I have read about this report on many sites today, and I have noticed that many PS2 / Xbox fanboys out there complain of how kiddie the system is.  But why when someone mentions the possibility of Super Mario Sunshine being played on a Sony / Microsoft console they all think it would be awsome and can't wait until it happens?!?!  Nintendo makes great games, it has work to do on image but as long as Nintendo is wanting and able to make wonderful games that I want to play, I will buy them.  When they release the next generation console, I will buy it!!  I will also tell my friends what makes Nintendo great, and show them the games that the other two consoles only wished they could play.  Sorry for an old Atari Fanboy getting on his soap box.

StarBlue

[mouse_clicker]

Rick: Sorry about cross-posting, The two threads are very similar and I thought one argument would work for another. Besides, like I said, for some reason we can't edit our posts in this particular forum.

But is Nintendo REALLY more profitable with the Gamecube than Sony is with the PS2? I find that really hard to believe. I know *Nintendo's* more profitable, but that includes GBA income 99.9% of the time. But the fact is Sony's sold more PS2's than Nintendo could ever dream of sellnig Gamecubes, they have 3rd-parties coming out of every spot imaginable, and Sony's blasting into the 1st and 2nd party sector very quickly. Nintendo, on the other hand, has sold very few Gamecube's in comparison, has MUCH less 3rd-party support (with similar licensing fees to Sony, I think), and several of their 1st and 2nd party games haven't sold too well. Really the only advantage Nintendo has right now is their really BIG franchises (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, SSB, etc). Is Nintendo REALLY more profitable on the Gamecube than Sony is on the PS2? Because if it's true, shown with evidence, I'll drop my case entirely. I still think Nintendo could shape themsleves up (even if they ARE grossing more than Sony with the Gamecube, think how much MORE they could be grossing if they were in Sony's position with sales), but I'll drop my case I've presented in both threads.

[ruby_onix]

Quote
Is Nintendo REALLY more profitable on the Gamecube than Sony is on the PS2? Because if it's true, shown with evidence, I'll drop my case entirely.

It's a safe bet that Rick's (most recent) info source would be the 600 page report mentioned in the other thread. But, considering our latest push to follow proper copyright laws, and that you apparently have to buy the report for $3000, I wouldn't hold your breath for Rick giving us any nice scans it. Or even precise numbers, for that matter.

Are there any particularly interesting numbers (or approximates) you can toss out, Rick?

[Uncle Rich AiAi]

i have a question...doesn't nintendo have $7 billion in the bank?  i can't see the logic of nintendo going third party, even if they were making a loss...

[visualwarp]

Great post from StarBlue. Smart guy without a doubt.

I realize most of us in here are already fans of Nintendo and will defend it to the end but that doesnt mean you don't worry about the stability of the brand at times. There is a lot of heat on Nintendo right now.

So in light of some of hte arguments I feel it is necessary to bring out a few points.
1) Microsoft is losing millions on Xbox right now and have been working on strategies to turn this around. Namely, releasing a new version of the hardware that will hopefully make people want to buy it for a change, and possibly pay nearly as much as it costs to manufacture it. Nice plan! However they need to get out of the RED before they are any kind of threat to the GC. First things first. They are in no kind of position to take out the big N in the console wars. As was stated repeatedly, Nintendo designed a brilliant console with the GC that is user friendly, powerful, and inexpensive to manufacture. Any reason to mothball this design? NO! And not in the forseeable future either. MS has to eat from the scraps that fall from Nintendo's table. (HINT: Rare)

2) The Xbox was obvioiusly designed by the same kind of people writing this report. People who don't appreciate the true meaning of game consoles. Small, simple, colorful, and with tons of great EXCLUSIVE games. The Xbox is none of these. It is a PC in a smaller box with a more poorly designed conroller than even my Microsoft Sidewinder GamePad I have had connected to my PC for the past 5 years. If you want to win in the console market you should first know what the heck its all about.

So why would the Xbox beat Nintendo? Better hardware? Depends on how you define better. The PS2 is the oldest of the bunch and no one even pretends to be a threat to Sony right now. So apparently having more powerful hardware is not enough. As far as DVD playback, yes its a great bonus and I still use my PS2 for my primary DVD player (yeah you heard me, Adam but DVD players are so cheap now who really cares. And that $90 player from Radio Shack comes with a remote... bundled for FREE? WOW!

But I digress, the bottom line is oodles of gamers love Nintendo, and we have kept them very profitable over the years. If N can survive the N64's stink cloud against the likes of the PSX, then they have nothing to worry about now. The CG is 100 times as fine a console as the N64 ever was and is gaining much more respect than the 64 had. The Xbox is not even targeted at the niche that kept the '64 alive for so many years, and that audience is just now graduating to the 'Cube.

My personal observations when I go to Best Buy is about 8 people in the GC aisle, about 10 buzzing around the PS2 games, and a nice tumbleweed rolling by the Xbox stuff way on the other side. It's the same the 3 locations I've been to here in Houston. Theres my freakin market observation. I had plans to pick up an Xbox over a year ago but as of yet they havent given me a reason to. I guess thats because having the box with the highest clock speed doesnt make be all giddy with joy. Oh yeah, maybe thats because I already have a PC? Speaking of which, therein lies my ONLINE STRATEGY. I dont need any more network cable running all over my apartment.

BTW I am also an IT professional and I know people who work at MS. I have nothing against MS at all, I use their products almost exclusively. I just have to be honest and say I don't see any real skill in winning the console market with them. Most of the other guys I work with in this field are fans of the GC as well. Go figure, market guys.

Just my $0.02.

[Super Mekman]

By StarBlue:
"I would not be surprised this analysis was sponsered by Microsoft in some way."

I agree with you. It's all advertising in some way. It's just more of MS tossing around cash.

Buying Penny-Arcade, and perfect review scores for Halo.

It's just more of the same.

[StarBlue]

I have a few more comments after I read a few to mine.  I agree with visualwarp in that Rare so far has done NOTHING for Xbox, instead there are a ton of Xbox owners out there yet to have a Rare game to play with.  If I remember right Kameo was suppose to hit the streets this spring, it so far has disappeared of the radar and nobody knows when it is coming out; I now hear possible October release.  Oh it is funny to see all of these Xbox fanboys saying "Yeah we got Rare and Xbox rules" but in the mean time Rare is behind schedule and yet to deliver ONE TITLE; brings back a lot of memories.  I am so happy that Retro delivered Metroid Prime right at the start of the holidays, also if anyone has not played Eternal Darkness please do!!! because Silicon Knights made a great game.  Too bad it got released about the same time as Resident Evil because to many non PGC sites put them in the same catagory.  Also I do find it interesting that Xbox is going through a revision???, that has to be costing Microsoft a lot of cash to retool its factories, the cost of redesigning, besides the fact it is going to upset a lot of current Xbox owners.  Ok with Nintendo we have a couple of redesigns in our history(SNES after N64 released, also I am not sure but I think NES did after 6 years on the market?), but not 18 months after release.  By the way, Microsoft is not just loosing Millions, it is Billions and Billions to paraphrase Carl Sagan.  At last count the Xbox division has lost over 2 Billion, they expect to loose 5 Billion before Microsoft says they will re-evaluate its Xbox strategy(Meaning pulling the plug).  There are a lot of people out on news groups that talk that they want to pick up a second system, I tell them about the games Nintendo has(In the least Fanboy tone I can) and many of them go out look and come back and say they did not know Nintendo had some great titles and more on the way.  The reason I say "Least Fanboy tone" is that Nintendo Fanboys have a bad rap as being loud and obnoxious, I am trying to show that a Fanboy can be intelligent and break the sterotype.  

[Sjalesho]

Quote
Originally posted by: Perfect Cell
It might be half trues or lies or Microsoft sponsored crap, but the problem with articles like this is that it HURTS Nintendos image, Nintendo doesnt need to have companies calling it to leave the console wars, people will way, oh look Nintendo will go the way of Sega, why should i spend my hard earned money on a Gamecube now? Bad Press is Not  good in the Videogame console wars, Nintendo needs to fight back with their own sponsored propaganda to fight back this crap cause im sick of it! I want Nintendo to stay in the console buisness!

I only registered to say that I totally agree with this post! Nintendo should release a counter-attack on all that "slander". Nintendo's PR should be more than announcing games and events. Manage the media!

Also in response to those analysts: http://www.dfcint.com/game_article/feb03article.html

[)Dark-LInk(]

visual warp ur in HOUSTON? SWEET im here to a DAMMN THE cold right now! AAAHH im freezing in here.=(

yes AIAI THE BIG N does got alot of cash heres the CONFIRMATION

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7974

i think i poested it earlier but o well there u read that they got 7 BILLION in the bank.....(=) I HOPE THEY BUY OUT CAPCOM WITH IT!!!)

[visualwarp]

StarBlue, I knew MS was losing a lot of money but I didn't know the tally was that high. Maybe by the time I post this message they will have lost another mil? Ouch! Yeah that’s what you get when you manufacture the most expensive machine, sell it for much less than it costs, and then fail to deliver enough worthwhile games to make it back. They are showing how inexperienced they are in this market.

I also have to point out a few times I have seen MS sponsored propaganda, usually on MSN.com which shouldn’t surprise anyone, but what was shocking was when one of my buddies sent me a message after he installed MediaPlayer 9 and said "Did you know Metroid Prime was also on Xbox?" After laughing for 5 minutes I found out that the "Media Guide" page had several images and some blabs about how great Metroid was, and sure enough it was listed under the Xbox games! I guess if you don’t have a decent title of your own you can try to claim someone else’s. This may have been an honest mistake, but I still couldn’t believe they made that mistake at all. So maybe it’s not much more of a stretch that they would do it to confuse customers and make them think an Xbox version was in the works, maybe get a few more sales, and then claim it was a typo to save face. It sounds paranoid but who knows what they would try after losing so much money, or some employee who had lots of stock in Xbox... now that may not be implausible.

Either way, you still can't deny the influence that Microsoft has on the technology sector. I'm not surprised to see biased articles popping up all over the place. I am surprised that the Xbox is doing as poorly as it is with them behind it. Microsoft does know how to market a product and fill a niche when it sees one. It also knows how to stamp out competition just by flooding the market with their brand and propaganda. Early in the Xbox's life span, I noticed all the rental places putting Xbox racks out front and pushing the GC stuff way back. But that of course only lasted as long as it took for people to find the hidden GC games and resume renting them in quantity. Whatever MS was paying Hollywood and Blockbuster to make that move apparently ended up not being enough. PS2 is back to the dominant position on the racks and GC is right back with the Xbox stuff in front. I saw the same thing at Toys R Us. This may be because the managers would rather make money by offering what customers want than some payoff for product positioning on the floor.

I really expected a lot more effort from MS on this console in the games department and not just pushing an empty product because it is supposedly more cool. I'm disappointed in MS. For shame. I was at the store on the launch days and it was a toss up between the Xbox and the GC. The bottom line was three words: Mario, Zelda, Metroid. I have no regrets. The only reason I would sell my GC now is to get a platinum one.

Having said that I never did rule out picking up an Xbox. I'm just still waiting for a reason to.

Yeah Dark-Link, its cold and damp and there seems to be no escaping it. These houses are not built for this kind of weather and everyone is coughing and sneezing. Can't wait till that sun comes back out and bakes the bacteria right out of our sinuses with its purifying x-rays and other deadly radiations. I have two boxes of Motrin sinus on my desk right now, a 40 pill and a 20 pill backup supply. I pop them like M&M's and that can't be good...

[Perfect Cell]

Interesting its not the first time these "hacks" have spurned the GCN


From December 11, 2002 from David Mercer, Vice President, Broadband Practice at Strategy Analytics

Quote
This report determines that the games console market is entering a critical three-month period which could determine success or failure for both GameCube and XBox. Several factors lead to the conclusion that Nintendo will probably exit the console market since the survival threshold for any game platform is now in the region of 15-20 million systems deployed. This continues to rise as games development costs increase. Furthermore, in spite of Xbox's slow start, Microsoft will continue to commit the funds necessary to evolve their Xbox platform into a full-fledged broadband home entertainment system.

Again, its too fishy that a person working in a broadband company would be in favor of the Xbox.

Heres this dudes email I don't think so.

[Grey Ninja]

Visualwarp, your posts are the best reading I have seen in months.  Thank you for being here.  This site is a better place because of your presence.

[Marcus Arillius]

Quote
Originally posted by: Bloodworth
Well, he said they were doing something right, not everything right.  It's true that Nintendo is not marketing as well as they could be and that they don't have the largest percent of the market, but the whole point we're trying to get across is that it doesn't really matter.  If they're still more profitable than Sony and they continue to make great games, then there's no reason to cater to the masses.  

People saying that Miyamoto needs to make different styles of games are just not thinking straight.  Miyamoto didn't get the status he has today by making games that copied other designers or fit perceived market wants, he is a creator and he has the freedom to create pretty much whatever he wants.  If you pushed him to fit a certain mold, chances are that he'd lose some of his passion and produce less than his potential.

Its very true Nintendo wasn't marketing right but I think times are changing now (Thank God!) I have seen more commercials for Zelda and Gamecube in the past Month than I've seen in all previous months since before the Gamecube's release combined.  On top of that, they are actually targeting an older audience.  I've seen lots of commercials on Comedy Central during shows like "Chapelles Show" and "South Park" and during "American Idol" (very smart move).  As well as other shows that have an older audience.

On another note, I completely agree with Rick here.  Nintendo IS doing something right.  Being in business isn't always about how much you sell, its about how much you profit.   Its not that hard to grasp.  Of course Nitendo could make more money if they sold more systems but they make more than enough with what they've sold.  When Nintendo sees their bank statement every month I think they could care less about console sales.  However, when the game division at Microsoft looks at their bank statement, they probaly cry.  Also, you have to realize, nintendo has still sold a lot of consoles, those other companies have just sold more.

[Nicodemus]

Before I say anything I first must say that I own both a Gamecube and a GBA, cause I can tell by the other posts that you guys aren't going to like what I have to say.

Last year at this time when market analysts said that in 2002 the Xbox would overtake the Gamecube, all the fanboys in here called bull**** and said things like "what do they know about gaming! wait till mario and starfox and bla bla bla bla."

One year later.. look where we are?  Apparently these guys know more about the industry than any of you.

To those of you who keep bringing up GBA.. I know that it's Nintendo's ace up their sleeve.. but how long will it be there for them?

I have a GBA, and guess what? It sucks balls.. you know why? Because Nintendo has no competition so they basicly ignore it, knowing that it's the public's only option. All we get from N is a bunch of f*cking SNES ports of games I beat ten years ago. And then to top it off, they're selling each Mario game separately instead of releasing Mario All-Stars.

That's all fine and dandy for now.. but do you think Sony and Microsoft are just going to stand by and let Nintendo rule the handheld market forever? I guarantee you, they're going to attack it.. and if Sony does the smart thing and names it something like "Playstation Mobile (PSM)" or "Playstation Go (PSG)" or "Playstation 2.5 (PS2.5)".. the name recognition alone will crush Nintendo.

Think about it.. did all the apes that went wild over the release of the PS2 buy it because of all the killer games that were available at launch? No, because you and I know Sony had dick for games on the PS2 at launch.. folks bought it because it was the new Playstation.. and that can and will carry over into the handheld market.

The minute Sony releases a handheld, I'm going to take my GBA and chuck it into the toilet, and I won't be suprised if it flushes itself. Nintendo is burning it's last bridge with the way they're handling the GBA.

[visualwarp]

Yeah, look where we are now! You own a cube, I own a cube, and all these other people in here enjoy their cubes and even a few sickos out there love their GBAs. How did it come to this???

I say, truly Nintendo has shown little attention to the GBA what with the new SP design which is better than the previous one in every way. But of course they were forced to do this because..? I guess because that’s what people wanted. Ruthless! And how thoughtless of them to maintain backward compatibility with all previous generations of GB games! It's all about the money!

Now I remember the PS2 launch well, for I passed on it completely and instead bought a Dreamcast (you know, "the ULTIMATE game system"). Reason was the PS2 had no decent launch titles. It wasn't worth it to me at the time and I wanted to give Sega another chance. My brother played mostly old PSX games on his PS2 for months until decent PS2 releases started to come along. Everyone knows the PS2 had a less than perfect start but it had a LONG time to pick up speed before any other competition came along and that is why it is still #1 now. That head start made a big difference. Eventually everyone bought one including myself and they continue to sell and it’s all about the games, which is what Xbox isn't all about. Is the discussion beginning to make sense?

But if you dony play your GBA then you could flush it down the toilet, or it might be a better move to sell it to someone who would play it. I don’t think you would have much trouble finding a buyer. I'll pass though, I already have two and I am going to get an SP when they're released here. Oh yeah, you might miss out on some of the connectivity between current and future games and the GBA, which seems to be catching on with more developers for some reason like this one I just heard about - maybe you know of them - SquareSoft. What was that about burning bridges?

I'm sure that whenever Microsoft and Sony "decide" to take the handheld market away from Nintendo it will be interesting to see how they accomplish it. Here's one way: get permission from Nintendo to make their handheld play all the GB, GBC, and GBA games! You may not remember a little handheld named the GameGear or another one named the Nomad both made by Sega which was putting a lot of heat on Nintendo at the time. In my opinion that hardware was far better than GameBoy. Nevertheless look where THEY are now.

I'm sure some type of Sony handheld would be a hit but they would have to start from zero. Nintendo has a huge library of games that will fit on those small ROM carts. Does Sony? Does Microsoft? No a portable PS2 that can play movies and still fit into the palm of your hand would be great. I'd buy one except realistically it would cost as much as a notebook PC. Probably would not be as popular with the 5 and 6 year olds then and that would hurt profits, and lose developers of the games we like as well.

I believe I've said enough on the subject, perhaps too much. Time will tell but I think most of us in here know enough about this market to make a better prediction that these other analysts. We know this market inside out and we make the purchases that ultimately determine the outcome.

I don't see Nintendo leaving the hardware market until people stop buying consoles and handhelds. Even then who knows. They can be stubborn. Remember these are the people who stuck with cartridge format for years after it was obsolete and even created that monstrosity known as the VirtualBoy!

[StarBlue]

I read VisualWarp's post and was thinking, didn't Sony release a hand held game system in Japan.  Also I thought that it tanked so badly that it was pulled within a year of release.  I might be wrong, someone correct me if I am.  Also Xbox does have a portable game system, it is called a LAPTOP.  In the last couple of days I have thought about something, many people are claiming that PC gaming is dead or dying.  So did the Xbox just shoot Microsoft in its own foot?  Think back 18 months, PC gaming is going strong and people buy new machines when games they want to play won't play on their old 486's and Pentium I's.  So then comes along Xbox and people say well it is cheaper to buy an Xbox then a new PC, Hmmmmm $299 versus $2000.  Also then the person can still use their PC for their checkbook and to write letters.  Most of the Xbox games were to be PC ports (ie Midtown Madness, Crimson Skies, etc) or at least promised that PC game developers could easily bring their PC games to the Xbox with little fuss.  So back to present day, the PC industry is in a Major slump, PC Games have staggnated, Microsoft sales of Windows and Office are down and stock is taking a beating.  Every time someone buys an Xbox, Microsoft is loosing well over a hundred dollars or more.  Before Xbox, Microsoft was MAKING a couple hundreds of dollars when they where forcing PC makers to put Windows on a new machine.  If I was Bill Gates I would find the genius that thought up the Xbox and FIRED HIS ASS!!!  Hey maybe if every GameCube owner out there went out and bought a Xbox, but never bought any games and just use it as a DVD player, I wonder how much a beating 10 Million units times $200 loss on each Xbox; that comes to a 2 Billion dollar loss.  OUCH  Bill might just have to drive the Lexus to work instead of the Mercedes Limo to make up the difference.  Wow, now I sound like an analyst and can get Microsoft to dump Millions to me to change my analysis that says all of that will make Nintendo give up the market and Microsoft will rule the World.

Like VisualWarp, I too waited until something happend before getting an Xbox.  For me the shoe fell when Rare was sold off, I am sorry I was WEAK!!! please forgive me but I just had to have the next Conker game.  So far I have bought ONE game (Blinx) and it sucked, someone game me Shenmue II and it is ok but still looks like a Dreamcast game.  So far I have a dusty DVD player aka Xbox, but hey it is a nice player.  Hahahaha

StarBlue

[)Dark-LInk(]

nicodemus FIRST OF ALL

FIRST OF ALL N is trating the gba and donst forget about it!can us e FINALY their releasing the SP!!

SECOND OF ALL gba is BADASS awsome little boy for entertainment

THIRD OF ALL look how many HAVE TRIED to end NINTENDO's MONOPOLY and glory as the KING OF THE HANDHELD!but  I DONT SE them live for VERY LONG even if with their SUPERIOR hardware they FELL to the might of the little boy!and sony HAS tried once and FAILED WHAT makes u think ANYONE else can?

[MikeHrusecky]

I think the point is overstated. PCs largely aren't purchased as game systems. And the quantity of Xboxs sold in the last 14 months is a drop in the bucket compared to PC sales, so there couldn't be any correlation that could be proven. PC sales are down, but Windows revenue is up. They're not struggling.

And off topic, until recently MS only made something like $40-90 per copy of Windows from OEMs, depending on OEM size. Now it's a semi-fixed price of $50.

[Matt]

I think that Nintendo could remain profitable as a third party.

However, for now, it seems that thier current plan is WORKING, and its working fine.

They can't make major changes based on speculation.

[Perfect Cell]

Well its interesting www.MSNBC.com reported that either EA sports or Microsoft will buy or is interested in buying Sega!, or is it Sega-Sammy or Segamy? Either way, if Sega after merging with Sammy is still in debt and needs to be bought out, then what does this say about turning Third Party? It says that going multi plataform when you were a console company DOESNT WORK, 3D0,Sega,  are examples of this. Why would it be the logical choice for Nintendo when it didnt work for others? I really really hope it never happens. Ill probably stop buying videogame if it ever does......

[Matt]

I'm confused... Sega-Sammy... what about Sega-AM2?

[Perfect Cell]

Sega AM2 is a development team under the Sega branch. Sammy is another company that merged with Sega just recently.