Topic: Let's Play GC on the Wii!

[Mop it up]

Why would they bother when the Wiimake will probably sell consistently over the next few years? Besides, Camelot has no interest in creating any more Mario games, and that's probably one of the reasons why the Wiimake exists to begin with.

[KDR_11k]

I'll honestly say I'm too busy playing lots of new games (yes, on the Wii too) to worry about whether the NPC re-releases are bad. Then again I never played Pikmin 2 (and only rented 1) so maybe I should worry about them but then again Little King's Story is in the same vein and sounds pretty interesting too...

Okay, but why should we get those IN PLACE of new content?

I believe it's been stated before that no important dev teams were used on these so they are in addition, not in place of the regular games. No NPC would not have gotten us any additional games and instead we'd be left with nothing (but third party games). The drought was there and I don't think Nintendo just said "we have NPC so we don't need to release games there", they simply DIDN'T HAVE ANY GAMES TO RELEASE THERE. Oh I'm sure they could have told one or two of their teams that the deadline's been moved up and they should just rush out something playable but I for one wouldn't want that to happen and I'm sure neither do you.

[Dasmos]

Super Mario Galaxy was controlled perfectly with the Wii Remote and would have been vastly inferior on a standard controller. Still the best platformer this gen.

Well, to each their own.  I found Prince of Persia to be a more memorable game than Mario Galaxy, and a much better platformer (and to be honest, better-looking).  But I've always been into that series more anyway since Sands of Time, as it's much more daring in its platforming and story.

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

[broodwars]

Super Mario Galaxy was controlled perfectly with the Wii Remote and would have been vastly inferior on a standard controller. Still the best platformer this gen.

Well, to each their own.  I found Prince of Persia to be a more memorable game than Mario Galaxy, and a much better platformer (and to be honest, better-looking).  But I've always been into that series more anyway since Sands of Time, as it's much more daring in its platforming and story.

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

What exactly is derisible about what I said?

[NWR_insanolord]

Super Mario Galaxy was controlled perfectly with the Wii Remote and would have been vastly inferior on a standard controller. Still the best platformer this gen.

Well, to each their own.  I found Prince of Persia to be a more memorable game than Mario Galaxy, and a much better platformer (and to be honest, better-looking).  But I've always been into that series more anyway since Sands of Time, as it's much more daring in its platforming and story.

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

What exactly is derisible about what I said?

Everything after "To each their own".

[broodwars]

Super Mario Galaxy was controlled perfectly with the Wii Remote and would have been vastly inferior on a standard controller. Still the best platformer this gen.

Well, to each their own.  I found Prince of Persia to be a more memorable game than Mario Galaxy, and a much better platformer (and to be honest, better-looking).  But I've always been into that series more anyway since Sands of Time, as it's much more daring in its platforming and story.

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

What exactly is derisible about what I said?

Everything after "To each their own".

lol...people actually defending story in a Mario game.  Oh no, Peach is kidnapped by Bowser AGAIN!  Oh noes, I guess Mario will have to rescue the needy ***** once again!  Oh, and he'll have to do it through a variety of multi-colored worlds (including obligatory and tacked-on minigames) collecting Stars (and it is always Stars) to open his way.  Maybe he'll have to take on a series of bosses so difficult that they fall to 3 of their own shots rebounded back at them!  Oh wonder of wonders!

As for the Platforming, the Mario games wish they flowed as well as the Prince of Persia games.  I've never once felt like I was doing something truly incredible and more than borderline impossible in Mario Galaxy, but there are plenty of such moments in the Persia series.  Mario Galaxy is Mario 64 with better polygons, some circular worlds, and a space theme.  That doesn't make Galaxy a bad game, just one I didn't like as much in light of other platformers I've played (Prince of Persia series, Sly Cooper series) that do more interesting things with the genre.

[NWR_insanolord]

Story is completely pointless in a platformer, the lack of one in Mario is a good thing. The funny thing about this is I recently signed up for GameFly and Prince of Persia was at the top of my list and I got it in the mail yesterday but haven't had the chance to play it yet.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Aren't the PoP games designed to be "easy" adrenaline platformers?  That the Fresh Prince of Bel Air himself is so "able" that the level design and programming of the game prevents the user from making mistakes, masked underneath flashy animations and stunts unlike a primitive "pure" platformer such as Castlevania 1?

I wouldn't know cuz the games' stories and smoldering rage style and seemingly un-losable combat have zero appeal to me.

[broodwars]

Aren't the PoP games designed to be "easy" adrenaline platformers?  That the Fresh Prince of Bel Air himself is so "able" that the level design and programming of the game prevents the user from making mistakes, masked underneath flashy animations and stunts unlike a primitive "pure" platformer such as Castlevania 1?

I wouldn't know cuz the games' stories and smoldering rage style and seemingly un-losable combat have zero appeal to me.

You obviously haven't played any of the Sands of Time and Next-Gen Prince of Persia games, because those games are in no way easy.  Yeah, you can't lose in combat in the Next-Gen PoP game, but I "died" plenty of times during the platforming sections.  I say "died" because you can't actually die in that game, as Elika will just pick you up and drop you back on the last solid ground you were standing on (which basically is a checkpoint system without having to go to a Game Over screen and reload, which is what you'd be doing anyway).  You can die in the Sands of Time trilogy, though, and there are some really hard and rewarding platforming sections in all 3 of those games.

And Warrior Within in the only PoP game with "smoldering rage style."

[D_Average]

I enjoy both series, but the latest incarnation of POP was a bit unsatisfying.  While the platforming on screen looked remarkable I just felt like I was triggering a series of canned animations with the greatest of ease.  Same goes for the combat in the new POP.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I enjoy both series, but the latest incarnation of POP was a bit unsatisfying.  While the platforming on screen looked remarkable I just felt like I was triggering a series of canned animations with the greatest of ease.  Same goes for the combat in the new POP.

Well hello.  Looks like I'll never bother with these games now.

[D_Average]

I enjoy both series, but the latest incarnation of POP was a bit unsatisfying.  While the platforming on screen looked remarkable I just felt like I was triggering a series of canned animations with the greatest of ease.  Same goes for the combat in the new POP.

Well hello.  Looks like I'll never bother with these games now.

Elika is a hottie though.

[Halbred]

PoP is in a whole different "class" of platformers than Mario Galaxy. One is geared toward environmental puzzles and combat (PoP: always has been) while Mario Galaxy is about exploration and mission-based progression. That's fine--neither one is better than the other one, but I don't think they can be compared just because they're "platformers." It's like comparing Call of Duty 4 with Bioshock.

And insanolord, did you seriously say that storyline doesn't matter in a platformer? That's insane. I could say that story doesn't matter in an RPG. What's the specific genre have anything to do with plotline? Only certain genres are allowed to have stories and character development? You can't possibly have meant what I think you meant.

[TJ Spyke]

I think he meant that platformers have never been about the storyline really. Some genres are like that, there is a storyline but it usually doesn't matter much. Take a game like Black or most puzzle games. Do you buy Tetris or Bubble Bobble or Kororinpa expecting even a decent storyline? Platformers usually have one, but they have always been more about the actual gameplay. I will admit that this has changed somewhat in the last few console gens (since earlier systems had to rely mainly on the instruction booklets to express storylines for platform games).

[broodwars]

I enjoy both series, but the latest incarnation of POP was a bit unsatisfying.  While the platforming on screen looked remarkable I just felt like I was triggering a series of canned animations with the greatest of ease.  Same goes for the combat in the new POP.

Well hello.  Looks like I'll never bother with these games now.

You'd be a fool to do so because that series is one of the best platforming experiences ever made.  If you don't like how he describes the platforming in the latest Prince of Persia, that's fair enough but don't pin the whole series on that because the Sands of Time trilogy is probably more your thing.  Personally, I had a different take.  I felt like the latest Prince of Persia took aspects out of the platforming that were somewhat unnecessary and focused on enhancing the core experience.  You know what the only difference is in the platforming from the latest Prince of Persia over its predecessors?  You don't have to hold the R button to wall run anymore.  Instead, you just have to leap at the wall and the prince does the running part for you (you still have to determine the best time to jump off the wall, and you have to deal with any context-sensitive situations like rings along the way).  Other than that, it's the same core Prince of Persia platforming experience it's been since Sands of Time.  As for the combat, I don't see how you'd get that feeling.  The combat's simple, but hardly "triggering a series of canned animations."  You're basically dueling your opponent, deciding the best times to guard and the best times to attack, and it does matter when you attack and in what way.

[broodwars]

PoP is in a whole different "class" of platformers than Mario Galaxy. One is geared toward environmental puzzles and combat (PoP: always has been) while Mario Galaxy is about exploration and mission-based progression. That's fine--neither one is better than the other one, but I don't think they can be compared just because they're "platformers." It's like comparing Call of Duty 4 with Bioshock.

Fair point.  I just find the Prince of Persia-style platforming to be more exciting and ultimately satisfying.  Mario platforming just feels "safe" and somewhat-random by comparison, especially since the PoP series has actually done fairly well in the story department since Sands of Time whereas Mario is still stuck in 1985.

[UltimatePartyBear]

Mario platforming just feels "safe" and somewhat-random by comparison,

Safe?!  You can't even die in the new PoP!  Meanwhile, Mario can have the flesh flayed from his bones by a frickin' laser beam.

[broodwars]

Mario platforming just feels "safe" and somewhat-random by comparison,

Safe?!  You can't even die in the new PoP!  Meanwhile, Mario can have the flesh flayed from his bones by a frickin' laser beam.

What exactly is the difference between dying 3 times in a Mario game and having to start a level over and dying 3 times in Prince of Persia and having Elika drop you off back where you started every time?  The lovely thing about the newer PoP games is that they throw the user a bone with the time reversal/Elika save, but because the user has an escape route they use it as an excuse to toss in exciting and tricky platforming that would be incredibly frustrating in another platformer like Mario, etc.  But because the user always has an escape route, it's fair game.

And by the way, that "frickin laser beam" in Mario games?  That would knock off maybe 1/3 of his health in Mario Galaxy.  It'd be an instant kill (or at least what amounts to an instant kill) in a Prince of Persia game (disregarding for a moment time reversal) most of the time.

[UltimatePartyBear]

The difference is the feeling of safety that you brought up.  There is almost no sense of danger in PoP.  Death is on vacation.  He left no number where he could be reached.  Yet you prefer it over Mario because Mario feels too "safe."

[broodwars]

The difference is the feeling of safety that you brought up.  There is almost no sense of danger in PoP.  Death is on vacation.  He left no number where he could be reached.  Yet you prefer it over Mario because Mario feels too "safe."

Geez, you make it sound like there's solid ground in the new PoP (and note that this is only an issue in the new PoP, as the SoT games had a depletable Sand meter that gave you a Game Over when you died and were out of Sand Power) every 2 feet.  For most of the area-specific platforming sequences there's only solid ground about once every 3 minutes or so of running along walls over using power pads.  That's a LOT of ground to have to make up when you die, which brings with it a great deal of tension not to screw up (ditto for combat, since screwing-up in combat means having to start that fight practically over again since the enemy regenerates their health).

Look, we're not going to agree on this issue so let's drop it, ok?

[UltimatePartyBear]

Geez, you make it sound like there's solid ground in the new PoP (and note that this is only an issue in the new PoP, as the SoT games had a depletable Sand meter that gave you a Game Over when you died and were out of Sand Power).  For most platforming sequences there's only solid ground about once every 3 minutes or so of running along walls over using power pads.

That's dramatically overstating it.  Only the approach and escape from boss lairs even come close to that, and the escape sequences in particular destroy a great deal of tension in doing so.  The whole place is collapsing, you have to get out now now NOW, but then you fall, Elika takes you all the way back, and you still have plenty of time left.  Infinite time, as it turns out.  But those fake hurry-or-die sequences in games bug me in general, so whatever.

That's a LOT of ground to have to make up when you die,

That's a funny way of putting it. 

But yeah, combat is pretty tense and exciting.  It still feels safe, though.  If you screw up, the enemy gets a massive chunk of HP back, which means the fight will take longer.  Your victory is still assured.  Your greatest threat is frustration.

The new PoP never gives me the sensation of failing and having to try again, even if that is what literally happens.  The painless reset makes it feel like I'm still on the same try.  In fact, it gives me a similar feeling to save state scumming or abusing quick saves.  If you can manage to feel like the game isn't holding your hand and making sure you have your lunch money pinned to your shirt, then more power to you.

[NWR_insanolord]

And insanolord, did you seriously say that storyline doesn't matter in a platformer? That's insane. I could say that story doesn't matter in an RPG. What's the specific genre have anything to do with plotline? Only certain genres are allowed to have stories and character development? You can't possibly have meant what I think you meant.

I shouldn't have said it definitively because it's just my opinion and people are allowed to disagree, but yeah, to me story is pointless in anything except an RPG or Zelda. I love a good story, but when I'm in the mood for one I read a book or watch a movie, not play a game. When I'm playing a game I want to be playing and having fun; the gameplay is what keeps me interested, not the story. I think that's why I'm such a big Nintendo fan, Miyamoto's design philosophy most of the time is to give as little story as is necessary and focus on the gameplay.

[Halbred]

I don't think story has EVER been important in Zelda games. ;-)

[broodwars]

I don't think story has EVER been important in Zelda games. ;-)

It is in Majora's Mask (in fact, Majora's Mask is probably the most narrative-focused of any of the Zelda games), and I'd say it's a fairly major element in Twilight Princess as well.