It's really sad. You see all the reports from a few weeks ago about how they want to push digital, yet they aren't utilizing their huge VC library to improve the 3DS' offerings.

Good article, I didn't realize there were only 2 VC releases all year. That's horrid!

I'd like to read the editorial on this.  When does that run?

Quarter past never?

I find it utterly ridiculous. I can see this happening near the end of the 3DS lifespan - not the beginning!

NinSage - Maybe after the next Game Boy game comes out on 3DS in North America. :P

But seriously, for me personally, I wasn't excited by the past two Wii VC releases. It's great the service isn't dead, but I can't get excited for Super Hang-On and another Street Fighter game (even if it's online). The two coming this week are interesting to me, though. I'm really looking forward to them. We covered their announcement, and we'll cover them after their release. I don't know what else you want us to do.

Yes, you covered them.  Much in the same way covering this story would have sounded like "Here Are the Recent Releases on the eShop: New games, but no VC games."  But instead you wrote an editorial on how the drought in this particular segment of Nintendo's digital offering depresses you.  Wouldn't it be just as valid to write an editorial on how a particular streak of Wii VC games is exciting?

People think I'm afraid of critiques.  It's not true.  I just don't see why there can't be (at worst) a balance.  And in the land of the gamer, b*tching and moaning is king.  It's like whatever we aren't getting RIGHT THIS SECOND is the biggest deal in the world.  So, fine.... b*tch and moan... but balance it out with equal measures praise and gratitude.  (Nintendo) gaming is pretty cool and there's nothing wrong with admitting it.

Side note: non-VC games have been coming out.  I imagine if those dry up and the VC starts getting releases, we will instead get an article about how "It is rather depressing right now for 3DS owners who love modern games. Nintendo only wants to sell us recycled products."  I'd love to be wrong.

Super Side note Championship Edition: A VC Street Fighter with online? You gotta admit that's pretty bad-ass, especially for this stage in the Wii's life.  Yet, as you acknowledged, it's met with a yawn instead of praise.  Just sayin'.

~~~

I eagerly await being proven wrong and sucking down this crow like Kirby inhales baddies.  ;D

Thanks for responding politely, Neal.  I apologize if it ever seems like I'm just hear to make your lives harder.  I hope you know, perhaps even just deep down, that's not the case.

My only issue with you is sometimes you don't respond politely. I doubt that's your intention, but in the world of typed words in forums, if comes off as rather aggressive.

I get your point on the negativity, though, and yes, it would be valid to write a pro-Wii VC article. I wrote this because I am passionate about the 3DS Virtual Console, and in North America, it sucks right now. I really want to play the games I mentioned that are out in Japan and Europe. As I said, I don't care about the past two weeks of Wii VC releases. It's great that they exist, but I have no interest in either game. It's neat that there is a Street Fighter game with online. That's all the excitement I can muster for it.

But man, Monster World IV... I'm excited for that. I've heard many good things about it.


EDIT: Also, I didn't complain when we were getting diddly squat outside of a weekly VC release on the 3DS last summer. It's still unfortunate that the retail market was barren, but I was content with playing Gargoyle's Quest and stuff.

It really, really does.

I think you hit the nail on the head.  I can see that being the case, and for that I sincerely apologize.  If anyone had these conversations with me in real life "aggression" is not the sense they'd get.  I assure you.

It's just that I love and enjoy gaming so much and I want to revel in its splendor with my fellow gamers (I'm big on social connection).  So then I come online (the village in which gamers live) and everyone is just sh*tting all over everything and everyone else 98% of the time.  Its frustrating.  I feel like I'm running a one-man AA intervention. ("Just put the bottle down and enjoy gaming for a change!!")

I believe a silent majority of gamers who do simply appreciate the positives has taken the high road and said "f*ck this buzz kill ... Imma enjoy my games without 'em."  But me? I'm not quite smart enough for that.  So I stick my nose in and hope I can tap in to the gaming passion that I know is hiding behind every bitter "critique."

I do understand that just as I gripe in the name of a better gaming culture, internet gamers gripe in the name of a better gaming industry. (Though many game journalists gripe in the name of flame-bait/traffic).  The reason why I feel one is justified and the other isn't is because the industry doesn't change course based on internet griping.  Maybe something as large, organized, and respectful as Operation Rainfall had an impact.  But short of something like that? No.  On the other hand, game culture is just between all of us ... we can make a difference because we create this culture every day through our own actions.  We don't have to dwell on the negative 98% of the time.  Even if someone thought they could enact change through complaint, why not try maintaining quality through praise? Seems just as practical to me.

Sometimes people say "But, NinSage, I do show my love for X, Y, and Z."  The problem is, the expressions of love and hate are not balanced.  It's usually something like...
LOVE: Hey, Skyward Sword was pretty cool.
HATE: What the f*ck have they done with Skyward Sword? Motion control sword play!? What the hell were they thinking? Zelda games are f*cking dead to me until further notice.


I don't know... it really is hard to effectively communicate and have open exchanges online.  But, as I said, I'm not quite smart enough to stop trying.  So, if that is bothersome? Again, my apologies - I only want to help.  In the past I've taken breaks from NWR because I just felt my opinions were too unwanted and, as I said, I'm not here to make things worse.  However, do know that I wouldn't be here in the first place unless I thought this was one of the best Nintendo sites on the internet.  And coming from me, that should be saying something, right?

That's for being cool again in your reply, Neal.  I know sometimes it's not easy between us.  If you have some advice on how I could better voice my concerns in the future, I'm open to talking about that.

All I can do is assure you that is a misinterpretation.  Whether you believe me or not is out of my hands.

Oh, you want balance? You got it. You know those Club Nintendo blog posts I write? I've written favorable reviews of Kirby patches, Hanafuna cards, Mario & Co. figurine, Mario buttons, and DS game case. I wrote unfavorable pieces about the Wii Remote holder aaand the Handheld History cards (which you threw a hissy fit about). So for Club Nintendo rewards, guess what? I'm MORE Positive than negative. But that's not good enough, is it? What kind of skew would you like to see? 90-10? 95-5? 'Cause it's not 50/50, and it's not 80/20, either.

Oh, but I'm sure I'm just misunderstanding you. In fact, it seems people misunderstand you a LOT. As a rhetoric major who drafts and interprets construction contracts for a living, I can tell you that the fault lies not with the audience. Want to be a better rhetor? Go study Aristotle, Socrates, Plato, Cicero and Quintillion. When you can form a cohesive argument clearly, concisely, and free of argumentative fallacies, we'll talk.

wow how arrogant and imature ^

So... you like this site...  you think it's one of the best Nintendo sites on the internet...


...yet you're always posting negative things about it and about the staff that volunteer to run it.

That seems to have a strange parallel with the exact thing you're complaining about.

I think he means it could be better then it is. There is worse Nintendo sites out there. This is one of the better ones compared to the rest of the ones out there. 

I would've been excited if this happened earlier in Wii's lifecycle, but don't think it's "bad-ass" at all due to the timing.

The active Wii user base (especially for Virtual Console/WiiWare titles) has diminished to the point where I'm not at all confident that there would be enough other people buying to make online play enticing.  It's also a bit of a kick-in-the-junk to learn that online multiplayer was possible for other Virtual Console games, but never arrived until the dying gasps of the Wii life cycle. Even if you do want fighting games with online play, there are simply better options available at this point.

Instead of being something really cool and exciting (which it should be), to me this is just another entry in the growing list of "too late for me to care" decisions by Nintendo - with NoA in particular generating the most entries.

You must have missed the paragraph where I explained this ...

Also, the following recent posts of mine might help speak to unnoticed facets of my character...

Exhibit A) praise for NWR/it's people:

Exhibit B) proof I can find fault in Nintendo, I just voice it less angrily/ominously:

@ejamer

A fair point.  But why have people bothered complaining about a lack of Wii VC if they won't be pleased by quality releases?  The answer to that only seems to be that they expected/demanded (good) games being released CONSTANTLY and indefinitely.  Which might be a little unrealistic, no?

I just think there's probably a more valid reason for the lack of VC games aside from the usual "NoA hates video gamez" banter. One could be that the USD/Yen exchange rate is rather low, and NCL is holding off until things improve. Or, it could be something that improves the service, such as patched Super Gameboy/GBC support for the older games, that NoA is simply waiting on to be finished just to avoid any sort of server stress of people downloading the patches en masse. Or it could be some other issue that's holding them back.

Problem is, we really don't know what the answer is, since Nintendo is historically frustratingly tight-lipped about their inner workings, but I seriously doubt it's part of some evil plot by Reggie to hate upon Nintendo fans.

And I understand where NinSage is coming from. It's kind of frustrating to visit Nintendo news/fan sites, only to find a majority of the community bitching and complaining. But that's when I turn off the computer and go play some damn video games. :)

Yeah...

Sometimes people say "But, Unclebob, I do show my love for X, Y, and Z."  The problem is, the expressions of love and hate are not balanced.  It's usually something like...

LOVE:

HATE:

LOVE:

HATE:

LOVE:

HATE:

LOVE:

HATE:

LOVE:

HATE:

There's no balance here because the dearth of VC is upsetting Neal, while the recent VC releases don't excite him. It couldn't be plainer. We're not going to invent enthusiasm in order to show both sides of an issue.

@joshnickerson

Cool.  The more people like yourself who speak up the less I'll look like a lone nut.

I believe your case supports exactly what I described earlier ...

@UncleBob

If you disagree with the explanation I provided for this distinction, feel free to say why.  But don't just keep ignoring it and thinking you're making points in spite of it.


@Jonny

You are correct.  No one should have to invent enthusiasm.  My point is, in theory, people who are passionate about gaming (a prereq for writing and in some sense being here, no?) should, almost mathematically (law of averages), find at least as many reasons to get excited as they have reasons to get depressed/upset.

It's clear we're not just talking about this one story here, right? So if, on average, people are more inclined to represent the negatives in gaming and forego the positives, why are they the best choice to cover gaming?

It's perfectly valid to merely call 'em as one sees 'em.  That is ideal journalism.  But there is clearly a lot to like about the world of gaming!! Yet it is glazed over.  Treated as that which should be taken for granted.  Meanwhile the smallest chink in the armor is taken as a valid excuse to poke the bees nest.  That's not being informative or objective... and if that is a certain outlet's/writer's/gamer's perspective, it deserves to be challenged because there's a lot of good stuff going on.

NinSage - you seem to have a lot of opinions on what would make a successful gaming news website.

I'd be interested in stopping by your site and reading some of your well-written, informative and balanced articles.

We don't have any sort of privileged access or industry connections whatsoever.  So we've never been, or tried to be, a news outlet.

We've stumbled upon literally two opportunities to report novel news stories, ever.

So, what's your point?

This article that we're commenting on has nothing to do with insider connections.


Also, I can't make everyone else on this website excited for everything Nintendo, but I am somewhat bothered by the insinuation that I'm always negative about Nintendo. I'm likely the biggest Nintendo apologist on the site. I might be more negative regarding the downloads/3DS VC lately, but that's because, as you said is ideal, I calls it like I sees it. And right now, I sees a slow release slate and nothing that interests me in the download world.


Just wait for a week until I'm likely the only person in the gaming press that's all like "oh snap! Mario Tennis Open and Monster World IV!" Then it'll balance out.

NinSage - you just don't get it, do you?

We're Nintendo fans.  We wouldn't be here if we weren't.  It's not like this site is ran by or populated with a bunch of Anti-Nintendo trolls out to show everyone how stupid Nintendo is or something.

Hell, I dare say, I'm more of a Nintendo fan than you are (but that's a ****ing contest for another thread).

But being a Nintendo fan doesn't mean you cannot post negative things about them.  We're fans, not married.

For you, the negative sticks out far more than the positive.

But here's the trick - that's not just for you - that's for everyone.

Just as you have this idea that we're all a bunch of anti-Nintendo whiners, we're getting this picture of you in our heads as a whiny fan-boy.

Should we (i.e.: Forum posters - do note that I'm no a staff member) post more positive things about Nintendo?  Mayhaps.  Should the site feature more positive things about Nintendo?  Possibly.  But you know what I'm not doing when I'm not at work or on the internet?  There's a good chance I'm playing Nintendo games.  My 3DS is sitting on my chest right now, with Mario Kart 7 paused, as I continue to go for three stars in all cups (how come when I'm in second, I never see a blue shell go by... but when I'm in first, I get hit with them almost every time?!?).

Posting a negative voice is IMPORTANT.

Do you know how Nintendo knows we like them?

We spend money on them.  I could show you a stack of the brand new titles I've purchased in the past year.  Many of us were in line launch day for our 3DS.  Most of us will be in line launch day for our Wii U.  I've already requested the release day off (although we don't know when that is, I already told my boss I was going to need it off!).

We could post a bunch of positive stuff about Nintendo online.  And, to some extent, that's good.  However, it doesn't really do much.  If everyone posted good about Nintendo, but didn't buy anything - well, you can see how that would have a negative effect on Nintendo.  Between a choice of buying their stuff or posting positive things about them online, I'm betting Nintendo will pick the "buy our stuff" option.

But how do we covey things we don't like to Nintendo?

The obvious solution is to not buy Nintendo stuff.  But there are several problems with that.  First, not buying Nintendo stuff has a negative effect on Nintendo.  None of us want that.  Second, not buying Nintendo stuff means that we lose out on the Nintendo experience.  Keeping in mind that we ARE (in spite of what anyone believes) Nintendo fans, we don't want that either.  Most importantly, if we don't buy Nintendo products, then we're not Nintendo customers - meaning there's little reason for Nintendo to listen to what we have to say in the first place.

Thus, we're left with the other option - discussing what we don't like.

Now, I'm sure, every single one of us would love to have a direct line into Reggie's office so we can praise him or give him an earful - personally.  But that number is hard to come by - and even when you get it, you still end up talking to his personal assistant who won't talk to you and threatens to get a restraining order if you keep calling/sending nude photos.  In all seriousness, Nintendo is a pretty secretive, closed company that simply doesn't communicate well with those outside the company.  They don't take outside submissions.  Customer service contact - while above awesome for many issues - is barely more than form letter responses when submitting issues and concerns.  It took them losing most all third party support for THREE GENERATIONS STRAIGHT before they actively involved third parties in the design process of their hardware.

So, we, random internet peons, are pretty much stuck *****ing to one another on the internet and hoping that the Reggie account that pops up on here every so often is really secretly Reggie.

You're still somewhat new around here - so you don't remember the old PlanetGameCube forums slogan.  Anyone have that image handy?

In summary - While I may disagree that we post more negative things about Nintendo, I'll agree that the negative posts tend to stick out more than the positive ones - but that's merely a sign that we're very passionate about Nintendo.  Many of us have had a Nintendo in the household for over twenty years straight.  That's far longer than most marriages.

We love Nintendo - we wouldn't be here if we didn't.

But we don't need you criticizing US on how, exactly, we should go about discussing Nintendo.
Or do... but then don't be shocked to get called on it.

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."

When did anyone say it did? He asked me about news on our site.  Totally unrelated to this piece, which, as I said from the start, is not news, it's an editorial or "blog" as the site states.

No one is asking for anyone to force anything.  My point is that it shouldn't require force.  Does that make sense?

I started by singling out this one article, not you.  The conversation almost immediately shifted to game media and culture in general.  So toss the assumption that this was/is all about you out the window!

I've noticed that and your passion.  But even if you were the biggest Nintendo apologist in all of gaming media that wouldn't be saying very much, don't you agree?

And there is nothing wrong with that.  Nothing at all.  Zero % wrong.  The problem is when it never seems to balance out.  Again, it's not about forcing positivity.  But objective reporting, even when passionate and non-sterilized, should have even roughly equal measure good things to say.  All I'm trying to communicate is that that shouldn't be such an insane and apparently offensive idea.  Can anyone explain why that is the case?

I look forward to it.  And if the headline is in equal measure positive as this one was negative, I will surely compliment you on it.  Of course, that compliment will go ignored and not start a big argument.  Thus, I will not have the chance to further defend my comment.  Thus, perpetuating my imbalanced percentage of praise to challenges.

Note...
Negative: "The Sad State of Virtual Console on 3DS in North America."
Neutral (news reporting): "Mario Tennis Open and Monster World IV hit Nintendo platforms"
Positive: "Nintendo platforms going strong with Mario Tennis Open and Monster World IV"

@UncleBob

I truly appreciate that last comment.  There was no ad hominem (except for maybe the first line) and you made a genuine attempt to further the discussion towards an understanding.  This we can work with and it's an excellent example of how internet disagreements can be fruitful.

However, as great a post as it was, it largely offers solutions to a problem that was not raised.  So, sadly, your good writing about voting with our wallets was not really pertinent.  We can talk more on that if you want in another thread, but at least from my end, it's entirely unrelated to this one.  Believe it or not I'm not here for Nintendo's or Reggie's egos or something :-P  As arrogant as it may sound, I'm trying to facilitate OUR enjoyment.  More on that later*.

I don't doubt that you guys love Nintendo. 

So I think it's great that you're passionate about Nintendo and warm and fuzzy hearts may pop out of your eyes when new games are announced.  But my challenge is why it's so crazy to let that be experienced and heard? Even if the only thing it could accomplish is make the gaming audience feel warmer, friendlier, happier emotions, why is that not as valid a reason as voicing complaints that no one of importance will hear?

Indeed, my issue is a larger problem with game culture that happens to be here in smaller part as well.  That is, *this assumption that true gamers or devoted gamers or refined gamers are performing some "duty" by pointing out every flaw and treating displays of satisfaction as a sign of weakness.  Like, for (an extreme) example, "the game was a 40-hour thrill ride but I noticed the shaders in level 5 were not rendered using Obtuse Engine 3.  Also the jumps last 1.3 seconds where as a much less floaty 1.1 seconds was the obvious choice.  In addition the game came out last week but the expansion doesn't come out until next week.  What the hell am I supposed to do in the meantime, GameCompany X?!"
Conversely..."oh, my mom was playing Mario and was just tickled pink that when she pushed the button the little man on the screen jumped.  What a n00b."

~

So, why do I darken NWR's doorstep? Well, as I said, I think it's way ahead of the curve.  So why do I challenge it? Because my momma told me a long time ago that everyone fits in to 3 categories on a given subject: for it, against it, and on the fence.  The ones on the fence are the only ones you have a real chance of reaching.

I could spend my time in the heart of darkness (Kotaku, G4), but that would just be a waste of everyone's time.  Around here, I see a lot of potential for a place that has enough passion and power (connections/reach/readership) to actually be a voice for Nintendo that doesn't just bash it constantly.  You have to admit, across the grand scheme of game media/culture, there is PLENTY of that.

~~~

I think maybe all the other words in this thread could be ignored except for this...

So, why is it so insane and offensive to try that?  All nonsense aside, that's all I'm really after.

So fine, if you don't want to soften the negative blows, why can't we just emphasize the positive ones a little more?  What's the worst that could happen? Why is negativity perceived as "keepin' it real" by positivity is seen as "selling out?" People feel a little happier and more excited? People drop their guard a little bit?

Thanks again for the well-thought-out post, Bob.  I do appreciate it.

Actually, I didn't ask about the news on your site - wasn't even aware you had one.  I was being a smart***. ;)

But to Neal's point - this article, like many others that you seem to have a negative attitude towards, are not articles that require insider information, hard-to-aquire interviews, pre-release copies of games, etc., etc.  It's an editorial (hey, didn't you say that's what's on your site?) analyzing one man's opinion regarding very public information.

Just like the thread where they posted the - very public - press release detailing the lack of games for the Wii.

Almost like the thread where a staff member discussed their disappointment with one of the rewards they ordered from Club Nintendo - though, I guess, the rewards aren't 100% "public", since you do have to be a member of their exclusive club. :D

You can write up an article - using this very same public information - detailing why the Virtual Console is so hot right now and why it's awesome to be the Wii.  Then, link to it so we can all go to your site and read it.

Then take it to another part of the forum. :)

This was an opinionated article based on fact. We practice objectivity in our news stories, which, for the most part (the abstracts are usually the exception), just present the facts. Any review or editorial is inherently subjective. We're not aiming to be dishonest or inaccurate; we just present our subjective opinions in this blogs/editorials and in our podcasts. It's not an insane idea to write about something like the latest rush of Wii VC games; it's just not an idea that anyone on staff (except maybe Daan, who apparently is loving Super Hang-On) feels passionate about to write about. We are all 100% volunteer, so if we don't have the passion to write about something, it likely won't happen.

Go ahead and crap on other media outlets who do this professionally (and generally focus on things that interest them, which is usually not Nintendo-related), but don't attack our staff about how we're not super jazzed for Street Fighter II on Genesis being online.

And I know you're not meaning to attack us, but as I'll continue to say, your writing style and heavy use of bold say otherwise. I know from talking to you that you don't mean to attack us in the way some members of the forums/staff take it, but the fact that we all generally take it as you attacking us means that we're not crazy.

Quick note: My constant use of bold is not meant as yelling.  It's meant as a service for folks who may only want to skim large amounts of text.  That way, I can say a lot without sacrificing the communication of key elements.

Is there a better way I should do this?

NinSage (or should I start calling you Pollyanna?  ;) ), I don't think anyone thinks that positivity is "insane and offensive."  However, I do think that going to all these articles and telling staff members how they should think and how they should write IS insane and offensive.  And, frankly, you're the only person on this site that I've seen who does that.

NinSage - anyone who isn't willing to take the time to read your post isn't worth responding to.  Thus, don't bother trying to make it easy for them.

You may not believe it, but even I read through your posts before responding to them.

First of all Broodwars are we really resorting to name calling here. I do know what you are referring to and it is cute.

Second of all I think most people here on this site would either not do it publicly here like Sage is doing here and do it via PM also I do want to point out that I have noticed that the writing style lately has been getting a bit less objective. I just haven't had the time to comment on them personally or the patience to either. I am busy with many things myself.

Which is why I went back and added the winking face emoticon, as that was really meant to be more joking than originally written.

Except people here are complaining about the 3DS Virtual Console - a service that should be going strong right now because there aren't that many retail (or even digital) releases to compete with, making it the perfect opportunity to fill in the current gaps with older catalog titles.


It's great to see that Wii Virtual Console still has some life, but for many people it's a case of "too little, too late" since they've already moved on.  For 3DS it's prime time right now, which is probably why some people are vocally disappointed that NoA seems to be avoiding 3DS Virtual Console releases.  (Although NoE has shown far fewer original eShop releases - we probably get the better deal on that one?)

Good points all around from this post, but I wanted to highlight this statement because limited communication and a failure to set appropriate expectations is what has me the most frustrated with NoA over the past couple of years. (Better communication and fan involvement isn't required.  It sure would be nice though.)

Yeah, I feel sorry for America's lack of Virtual Console games.

That was completely unprofessional and insulting. What is this IGN?

As a new reader this is extremely off putting. I may not return if i am spoken to this way

Please do not judge all of us by one staffer's rant. :(

I am noticing, per a Twitter interaction with people over this week's possible North American downloads, I'm getting increasingly spiteful about all this. It's just a terrible feeling not thinking anything for the Game Boy will come out knowing how much I enjoyed regular 3DS VC releases of Game Boy games last year. Game Gear games are okay, as it is likely Sonic Labyrinth will hit NA on Thursday, but that's a system I could really care less about. I bought the previous Sonic GG game and was nonplussed.

I just really want to play Kid Icarus GB, Wario Land, Kirby's Block Ball, G&W Gallery 2, etc. It is beginning to not make sense to me in any way, shape, or form, as to why these haven't come out in North America. I'm just baffled.

Nintendo should just start making quarterly release shecudles for VC games.

That would solve most issues I have with the current state of things.

At the very least a "this month in games" press release like Japan always does would do.

but balance it out with equal measures praise and gratitude.

We should be GRATEFUL that Nintendo allows us to buy their products? 

You probably won't be. For some context as to why I reacted this way, do a forum search for threads involving NinSage. I'll get you started.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/blog/28268