I think you forgot Super Bomberman 8...

Hmm 20 years ago I was 11 years old. For the first title on the list I actually never played any F-Zero title until GX on the Cube. I actually discovered the original on the virtual console. A  year and a half or so ago. Its actually a pretty fun racer. It has the memorable music and the track designs while somewhat complex are very nice to race on and give me a nice burst of adrenaline while playing.  While not as challenging as GX(but which game is) If I did play it back when it originally came out It would provide a good enough challenge for me.

The SNES I will admit I didn't have many games for it but I had some pretty good ones. NBA Jam TE, Killer Instinct, Donkey Kong Country 2, Link to the Past, Super Mario Kart, Super Metroid,Sim City was some of my most played games. I didn't really play any of the touted RPG's for the system back then but thanks to the DS and virtual console on the Wii I have gotten some of the good ones like Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG.

I got the SNES on Christmas Day, (it had been out for about a year when I got it I think). My parents said I did well is school, (like no less than a C+ on my report card), that they'd get me one. On my first report card my lowest grade was a B-. So Christmas Day that year was the best one I ever had till then. My parents were so pleased with my grades they got me 2 other games too. So my first 3 games were Super Mario World, (which as you know came with it), Mortal Kombat, and Robocop vs the Terminator. And I sent away for Mario All Star and got that one a few weeks later.
    I tried F-Zero but just couldn't get into it. Super Mario Kart was, (and still is), one of my favorites of all time as is Donkey Kong Country, (the first one was the best, 2 was good but 1 was better). I had a decent size game selection, but needless to say my first three were my favorites. Believe it or not I STILL have all the games AND the system itself, (and they all STILL work too). But I'm glad I can download the SNES game onto my Wii. I just hope the 3DS will get them too, (I know it can support those games so I hope to see NES and SNES games in the VC in the future).

As impressive as F-Zero was when it was released it was dated before the N64 came out.  The second Super Mario Kart introduced multiplayer split-screen the single player only F-Zero looked like a relic.  As kids we were not the best judge of something being old (kids often will call something from six months ago old) but F-Zero was undoubtably an old SNES game by 1994 or so.  It really needed a sequel with multiplayer.

But F-Zero is still a very enjoyable game to play today.  It's funny that the SNES was so associated with slow down and yet one of its launch titles was promoted largely on its speed.  NWR is right in saying that this was a game the NES could never do and that's an important way to sell a new videogame system (something the 3DS still needs to do).

I have a feeling that the only game in this list I won't own a SNES cart of will be Chrono Trigger unless they're shmup savy and include R-Type III.

While today I own lots of SNES games, as kids we had a small group of games which we played the shit out of: Super Mario World, Mega Man X, NBA Jam, Saturday Night Slam Masters and.... Bubsy.  Yeah my youngest brother was a fucking tool for getting that game.  Took until we were adults for me to prove to both of my brothers that the game sucked.  The trick was having them PLAY IT as adults.  Took like five minutes.

I never expected to get my Super Nintendo when I did - I got it at Christmas 1992, when I only got an NES 3 years earlier from the same aunt (and got my Game Boy on New Year's Day that year). We got Mario World, Turtles in Time and Mario Paint to start, and I never went back to the NES.

It introduced me to RPGs (thank you FFIII) and I think I put more time into Street Fighter games on it than should be allowed by law. Mine still works, although it's a bit yellowed, and I still boot it up from time to time. I actually bought my last game for it a couple of years ago (Tetris Attack).

boothisman.gif

I received mine the Christmas it came out and loved it. I still have it and all of my games. I recently booted it up to play WWF Royal Rumble with my son. I did not have any of the big RPGS when they first came out but a few years ago a coworker sold me his copies for $5 each. Chronotrigger, FFII and FFIII, Secret of Mana, Mario RPG, most of them still in the box.

The meeting for this was awesome, because over the course of it I got progressively more intentional with my complete trolling of everyone else there.

Every F-Zero up to 64 like the first 3 Star Wars has always suffered from being a product ahead of the technology at the time. Only GX brought to life what that universe was capable of.

...and Hard locked/reset my GCN every time I tried to play it at around the last race in a set.  I would argue we have yet to see an F-Zero that didn't over push its technology, except the arcade one.

I kept hearing about Actraiser and got it for the VC when it came out.  Loved the game till the end.  I've never beat it because that ending Gauntlet is probably 2-3x the difficulty of the rest of the game and parts of the game aren't easy.

ActRaiser seems like a really cool game but I don't really know because I suck so much at it that I don't really enjoy it.  One problem with the setup is that the two types of gameplay tend to favour certain skills.  If you're good at strategy games, you might not be any good at action/platformers and vice versa.  In fact I find the two game skills are often mutually exclusive.  "Thinking" games tend to attract people with too shitty of reflexes for intense action games.  But thinking games require a certain time investment from the player to understand the nuances of the gameplay so those that are gods of action games tend to not bother with them.  Odds are if you're good at one part of ActRaiser, you will suck at the other.

I loved Act Raiser when I finally played it.  Strategy games and Action games are two of my favorite types of games.  So I would have to say not everyone who is good at one sucks at the other, but I can see where you are coming from.  For me I guess there is a connection in that I love strategy RPG's like Fire Emblem, and action RPG's. So a game that blends some of both, and does both well, in a time that it didn't really exist was amazing.


F-Zero was amazingly difficult for me as a kid to beat on Master.  My brothers and I used to trade back and forth, and it was exciting the first time we got to see some of the later stages like Fire Field. I don't enjoy racing games very often, but this is one racing series that I always pick up.


THE JACKEL

We didn't own a Super NES until after a Nintendo 64 so I kind of missed out on that whole era. We had a Sega Genesis instead, though never had more than ten games I don't think. One of my friends had a Super NES though and I actually ended up completing The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past before I ever owned it. That was about the only Super NES game I played before having one and growing a real interest in games.

The Super NES era is also about when I'd say games got good. The improved technology allowed them to create games without such issues as poor control, cheap difficulty, etc. that plagued the NES.

As far as the two games revealed so far, I've never liked F-Zero but I can see the appeal in it. I've just never liked straight-up racing games that are all about perfection, that's no fun to me. The original F-Zero seems more like a game that was good for its time but not worth playing today, but I'm not the best judge of that in this case since I don't like the modern games either. I've never played ActRaiser but I have heard about it, it's on my list but I haven't actively bought Super NES games in some time.

I loved this one . When it showed up on the Wii VC I bought and played it through. A couple times even since my Wii failed and had to be exchanged.

Now if only I could get through Super Ghouls And Ghosts...

I don't remember when I got my SNES (though I remember when I got my NES, N64, GCN, and Wii). I loved it, though years later I looked and realized most of my games were crappy (like Home Alone 2: Lost in New York and George Foreman KO Boxing). I did love the system though, with the two Mario World games probably being my favorites. Years after the system was gone though (like 2002 or 2003), I picked up a copy of Mario is Missing! from a local used game store and was surprised that it was pretty decent for a edutainment game (it was still boring, but I beat it and didn't hate it). I still have my SNES, though it's also pretty yellow and I don't know if it works.

Fingers crossed for Cliffhanger and Spanky's Quest.

I remember reading a list of top ten worst NES games years down the road, and realizing I owned like half of them (The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle, Friday the 13th, e.g.). I propose a follow-up feature for worst SNES games that we played way too much of because they constituted 4 out of the 10 games we owned.

So was it intentional that Zach got to write the article that involves limp whips?

Castelvania IV is so painful for me because I love what I've played of it, but I've never been able to get past the second half of the third level, partly because it sends you back so far, partly because it's really goddamn hard.

I love Actraiser!

I suck at Super Castlevania IV but one good thing about it is that it has passwords, so you can check out later levels.  Overall I prefer saves to passwords but the ability to skip ahead on a tough game is a real nice advantage of passwords.  Renting a game and then using passwords I had in Gamepro or EGM to sample the entire game was a real thrill, as there was no way we would see anything beyond the first two levels in the rental period otherwise.

And "Super Castlavania IV" is one of the stupidest names ever.  Pick either "Castlavania IV" or "Super Castlevania", Konami!  It can't be BOTH!

Wait, are these in order?  Did A Link to the Past, commonly a candicate for best game PERIOD (not SNES only, PERIOD), not even crack the top 15?  Huh?

Probably insanolord's fault. :D

I've been replaying LttP recently.  The other day I had just entered the dark world.  My brother is telling me about Helmasaur and how he is going to kick my ass and is one of the hardest bosses in the game.  As a kid I never got further than this.  My brother did and I saw the rest of the game watching him.  But I could not get past this guy in a million years.  Going in I lost one of my fairies shortly before the boss on some routine enemy.  I'm shitting bricks, thinking that without that extra fairy I'm probably going to get my ass kicked.

I beat Helmasaur in one try and got hit only TWICE.  Whenver I go back and play an old game I am in shock of how sucky I was at videogames as a kid.  And I would be considered a pretty shitty adult videogame player by most standards.  How interesting that when you use strategy you can beat a boss, while waving your sword as you run in circles like a spaz doesn't work!

Haven't played Link in the Past in a little while but it is basically my favorite game of all time. There really have to be some standout titles for the rest of the list. I'm gonna guess that RPGs are going to be near the top of the list since that's pretty much what the SNES are know for nowadays. I wonder what this list would look like if we were basing the top 20 on how things were back then and not how we see things today.

Nobody said "top" 20.  Just 20.  Probably an attempt to curtail the whining.  And it still failed.  ;)

This whole feature is making me want to break out the SNES again.  Especially Zelda, but also F-Zero.  I wonder if my times are still saved after so long.  I bought that game in a special deal straight from Nintendo late in the system's life, along with Pilotwings, I think.  I guess they were clearing out the ol' warehouse.  I surprised myself long ago by actually beating F-Zero on Expert.  Me, who sucked at games and was too scared to beat half of them until a friend showed me how (I did beat A Link to the Past, but I'm pretty sure I used a strategy guide).

They are in sequential order by release date as the first post said.

Ah, I missed that.




... so Super Mario World isn't in the list, then?  That's arguably worse. :)

Yeah, even with insanolord's well known and wrong opinion, I'm still surprised SMW isn't on the list.

You'll see why soon enough  ;)

Super Mario All Stars, then.  I always forget about it because it's like saying two DVD's shrink-wrapped together at Best Buy is the movie of the year.  And yes, I know they're improved.

I was waiting for someone to pick up on SMW's absence. Let's put it this way: we fudged it a little bit to include a few more games. :)

I always wanted the second version of Super Mario All-Stars (the one that added SMW), but it was so rare because the only way to get the game was to buy a new SNES with it packed in.

A Link to the Past is my favorite game ever. It was the game that got me into gaming. I remember being so amazed that a game had a story like that, that a game could be so dramatic and cinematic, with that rainy opening.

It would be awesome if I'd managed to knock Super Mario World off the list or kick LTTP down this low. Unfortunately, those games are very popular for some reason, and I wasn't able to get the rest of the staff to accept the truth.

My older brother and I teamed up to play Actraiser back in the day. I would play the action parts and he would play the sim parts. Good times.

Contra 3 I have actually never played dispite playing the two on the NES. I guess once this list is done I will have a pretty big lineup of games to get on the VC.

I'm not sure if you Americans'll think of me as being crazy, but I absolutely can't stand the thought of Contra 3 having human heroes. The game was renamed Super Probotector in PAL regions, with the two main characters replaced by robots. My reasoning for the distaste? Look at the environments. Look at the enemies. Stage 3 shows a battle between robots and aliens (not including yourself) in what appears to be an incredibly toxic mass factory zone. Clearly humans haven't lived here in a long time. Is there a story to the game? Are you supposed to be part of a small resistance of huu-mens who've spent their last decades hidden underground? There's way too much badassery on this planet for any humans to survive.

Robets as heroes makes more sense! Also makes the game a little more depressing, with the thought that we had probably built these damned robots who've since taken over...with their aforementioned bigass industrial zones that'll put even the most poluting 500 airport-filled maps in Sim City to shame.

The only problem is that you're also fighting robots in this game even though you are one (in PAL)...

I think this feature needs a compilation Video to go with it.  Which each person reading like the reviews.

I bought that SNES package. Still have it! Need to get one of those modern TV adapters though. The we can play on the 57 incher instead of the old 14.

Castlevania IV slew my SNES.  Contra III was its accomplice.  I didn't own either of those until I bought both on clearance at Toys Я Us sometime after I got an N64.  I hadn't played the SNES in a while, but it was still hooked up.  I put in Castlevania IV, the Konami logo popped up, and then the screen scrambled and went black.  I thought it was a bad game, but after that, none of my other games would work, either.  So I had to buy one of those ugly rounded piece of crap mini SNESes as a replacement.  I never really forgave Castlevania IV for that fiasco.  And nobody has to try to sound smart and point out that it probably wasn't the game that caused it, thanks.

Contra III was already one of my all time favorite games, so I pardoned it.  Just like Contra on the NES, it was a perfect co-op action game.  I never knew the people who made it went on to found Treasure, but it explains so much.

Hey, those mini SNESes are kind of cool.  The SNES from my childhood remains at my parents' house and my brother will not let me take it home.  So I recently decided to buy a second SNES, one in which I have sole ownership of, so I could play at home.  Lo and behold the first one to show up for sale at my local used videogame store was a mini SNES.  I was quite pleased to get it as I figure if one is to own two Super Nintendos they might well have both variations.  It attracts quite a lot of attention from guests the first time they see it in my living room.  No one recognizes what it is.

My only beef with it is that the cartridge slot is not quite as snug.  My brother has frozen Super Mario Kart by bumping the cartridge twice now.  To be fair he is an idiot.  It also is weird to just yank SNES cartridges out of the system instead of using the eject button.

I ended up with a SNES Jr. because I found it on clearance ($15) bundled with A Link to the Past for cheaper than buying just the game.

Epic article for the greatest game of all time. I particularly love the scans of the manual and map pack in.


.... was Zelda's theme really introduced in this game though? Where?

It plays each time you rescue Zelda (and a shortened version plays when you rescue the maidens).

Do you like SMB3? My friend also doesn't like Super Mario World that much, mainly because he is so used to how Mario controlled in 3.


I can't understand the hate for ALTTP though. :S

I hate the way the mini SNES looks, and after being trained to use an eject button, I was always afraid just yanking a cartridge out would break something.


So, TMNT IV.  Does anyone besides me remember the TMNT concert tour?  Four people in rubber turtle suits pretending to rock out on stage in front of a horde of screaming kids?  I was one of the kids.  I had the album on tape.  I bring it up because at least one of the songs on this game's soundtrack is from that album:  Pizza Power.

I remember the tour but I don't think I ever went to any of the concerts. It is amazing how widespread the Turtles craze was back in the 80's and 90's.

I've got the Tape but I didn't see the tour.  Though you have to respect the Ninja Turtles at some level in the suits.  Doing all those moves with a couple hundred pounds on you why someone else moves your mouth.  Also heard it was very hot.  Lots of respect there.

Super Mario Kart is a very recent addition to my collection.  I put it off for years and years and only got it a few months ago.  Waiting so long was a mistake.  My brother and I play each other in Battle Mode nearly every day.  You would think the first game in the series would feel dated today but it holds up remarkably well.

Part of it is that it lacks annoying inclusions in later Mario Kart games like the Blue Shell and rubber-banding AI (though the AI still cheats via its unlimited power-ups, many of which are not available to the player in any way).  My brothers bought Mario Kart 64 recently as well.  The battle mode in it just isn't as good.  Two of the tracks just outright suck with big pits that are easy to fall into.  But we like all four SMK battle mode tracks.  Mario Kart 64 stood out more at the time because of huge enhancements like four player support and polygonal tracks.  But those are common place in the Mario Kart series now so the game doesn't age well.  SMK's flat mode 7 tracks stand out as something different.

The series as a whole seems to have followed the MK64 template.  I find the Mario Kart formula is pretty stale now so MK64 feels like old hat.  SMK in comparison is like a breath of fresh air.  It's a different Mario Kart experience then what we get these days.  I feel the series has just gotten worse and Nintendo feels the need to "balance" the game in a way that punishes skill.  If you're too good against the computer, the AI cheats.  If you're too good against human players they get all sorts of overpowered power-ups to let them catch up.  SMK has certain elements of that as well (you still get better power-ups if you're behind) but you can dominate if you're good enough.  Nintendo probably wanted nerfy "everybody wins" Mario Kart from the beginning but they had not quite figured out how to do it yet and that's a good thing.

In fact that's a good way to sum up the SNES years.  The games were considerably more user-friendly than NES games and held the player's hand much more than before.  But it had not yet crossed a line where it felt annoying.  I feel the 16-bit generation is where game developers found that perfect balance regardless challenge.  Prior to that gen, games were seemingly designed to prohibit the player from winning at any cost.  Since then the approach is more to not let the player fail.  You can make a game that is challenging without jerking around the player or giving them a win button.  Many of the best SNES games find this balance and it's no coincidence that often the most beloved entry in a Nintendo franchise is the SNES one.

if they put koopas in the mario karts why not goombas hammer bros or other mario enemies .they need the koopa kids

I'm with qwert1098 here. The roster of racers in Super Mario Kart is abysmal.

Ah, Super Mario Kart.  In all my life of gaming, it was probably the game I was best at.  A friend and I got to where we could dodge red shells so well that we became more dangerous to each other with green shells, with which we could hit a moving target across the level and around a corner or two.  I was working on my aim with forward thrown banana peels by the end, but we moved on to the sequel with its less precise aim and all that went away.  I never got as good at MK64.  For a while, I killed myself with red shells half the time in MK64 by shooting them while he passed me going the other way.  Instead of looping around me like in the original game, they'd go straight out and then straight back at me.  That was a hard habit to break.

After all this time, I'm surprised how good the SNES Turtles looks.  I remember A/Bing the arcade and SNES versions relentlessly from magazine articles back then.  The XBox Live remake doesn't score very well, but it's decent.  It does point up the fact that the SNES version makes more sense--instead of just randomly being sent back in time in a sewer, you get sent back in the Technodrome.

Anyway, these beat-em-ups don't hold up as well as I wish they did, but TMNT4 was always tops.  The Hyperstone Heist on the Genesis was pretty cool, too.  Some recycled levels, some new.  Some enterprising company should put out a TMNT Arcade pack and include a newly redrawn (to match the arcade level) TMNT3.  That was a cool game.

Street Fighter II Turbo (or any variation of the game really) was THE game when it was current.  There was no title that was more talked about or more played.  A kid in my grade had a strategy guide from Gamepro magazine.  This was seperate from the magazine itself.  Sometimes you would get a seperate guide with it's own cover and everything shrinkwrapped to the mag.  It was two parts, covering all the characters and their moves, plus combos and strategies.  My Dad worked from home at the time so my family had a photocopier.  Once the other kids found out about it the plan was in place for me to borrow the strategy guide and make photocopies of it for everyone.  I don't think my Mom was pleased since I had not asked permission beforehand.  That photocopied guide was nearly daily reading for the next year or so.  I think I still have it somewhere.

The funny thing is that today with the internet this would be completely unnecessary.  Every if you had a physical guide SCANNING it would make more sense.  This was black & white, blurry photocopies.  No one would ever do it that way today and yet at the time it was cutting edge.  Someday I'll tell my kids this story and they'll think I'm a total dinosaur.  I might as well be talking about riding around in a horse drawn carriage and lighting a room using candles.

SMB3 is my favorite game of all time, and I'd been playing it for over a decade before I first played World. I'm fairly certain the negative comparisons to Mario 3 are why I don't care for it.

As for LTTP, I don't get it either. I do prefer the 3D Zeldas, but I really enjoy the original and Link's Awakening is my second-favorite Zelda game.

Secret of Mana... all I remember was wanting to kill that f**king Sprite, and Flammie. That right there was the pinnacle of Mode 7.

Why Street Fighter II Turbo and not Super Street Fighter II?

Nostalgia again. Secret of Mana was one of my most favorite SNES games. I remember paying a whopping $80 for it when I was a kid, yet I only had it for a couple of minutes in the store as my mom found out I bought it before I bought presents for the family for Christmas, so she scorned me and I had to take it back. I did borrow it from my cousins many a time, and I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it.

Just wanted to say...

I didn't have a SNES growing up (yay SEGA!) but I got a Secret of Mana poster from some magazine and thought the artwork (the stuff on the box cover) was so beautiful that I hung it up on my bedroom wall.  It stayed there until my room was made into more of a guest room after college!!

Eventually I played SoM in college and it was great!!

Then I went and played some of the other games in the series......... yuk =\
... just my opinion.

Secret of Mana I played for the first time on the Wii virtual console. It can be a pretty good game. I still need to work on beating it. I really like the way the battles happened. I really didn't have any issues with the AI of the CPU teammates.

I could never quite get into Secret of Mana, despite having a friend who owned it and was obsessed with it. But years later I played an English translation of Seiken Densetsu3 through. . . certain means, and loved it. The customization of characters and ensuing story branching is still pretty damn impressive. Something about the combat was tweaked to make it more satisfying as well. Secret of Mana always felt like an RPG that was made extremely difficult by making it real-time, but Seiken Densetsu 3 made the combat feel a bit more like Final Fight somehow.

I remember getting into arguments about kids that it was Mega Man "Ex" and not Mega Man "Ten".  The most sound argument is that Mega Man is named X in the damn game.  So Zero is calling him "Ten" the whole time?  Fuckin' idiot kids.  Same morons were convince there was a code in Street Fighter to turn it into Mortal Kombat.

One thing I really like about Super Metroid that is not normally focused on is that it is not immediately identifiable as a Nintendo game.  Well obviously Metroid is a well-known Nintendo franchise but from appearance alone it does not instinctively look "Nintendo".  In that time period you had cutesy looking games like Mario, Mega Man and Sonic.  Then you also had a more realistic look like Shinobi, Metroid and Castlevania.  I would also say there was an in-between look that games like Zelda, Final Fantasy and Donkey Kong Country had.  The NES was the last time Nintendo could ever be considered cool.  Although the kiddy label didn't really stick until the N64 years, Sega made sure to point out how lame Nintendo was at every chance.  I like Super Mario World a lot but there is no denying that it is not "cool" in any way shape or form.  It's an awesome game but its look could at best be described as inoffensive.

But Super Metroid was a title that at first glance might more resemble a Sega or Konami game.  It was an example of Nintendo not falling in to the hands of their superfiscial detractors.  I always liked how it stood out like that and I think it adds to its legend.  Super Metroid is respected among almost all gamers, even those that normally are not interested in Nintendo.  Ocarina of Time and Goldeneye had a comparable level of respect in the N64 days.  Nintendo makes everything look like a children's cartoon to be accessible but it really only goes over well with Nintendo fans, casuals and kids.  The only time they truly expand beyond those groups is when they don't bend over backwards to make a game kid-friendly.  When they make something that actually appeals to adults or teens it usually goes over huge.  The true element of universal appeal is in gameplay, which Nintendo are the masters of.  But they often hide that gameplay behind an uncool exterior and just turn away thousands of gamers that would otherwise adore them.  Perhaps someday they'll figure that out.

Super Metriod came out when I was 14 on the SNES. I had never played any Metroid game that preceded it at the time. It was an interesting game to go though for the first time. I think I even had the Super Metroid players guide.I got it a little after I got the game as a gift for Nintendo Power Subscription. Anyway My first time through the game I think was 15 hours or so. Over time I got it down to 8 hours then 5 hours and then I can get it down to 2 hours and 30 mins nowadays.  It's the type of game that draws you in more you play it.You just get into the game and just get lost in the world of the game and just get better at it.  I think part of the games draw is the music. To this day the music is just great and it really draws you in.

Super Metroid is the game I point to when people accuse me of hating the Super Nintendo. It's one of my favorite games ever.

To this day, Final Fantasy III for the SNES is still my favorite game of all time. I still play it through once or twice a year.

Just to clear my name, Neal added that Twitter blurb about this Locke being better than the Locke of Lost, not me. I don't know that I'd make such a bold claim.

Neal, don't tell me what I can't do!

Final Fantasy VII is more popular because it kickstarted an RPG boom in North America.  For a lot of people it was their first RPG so ALL of it was new, even the most barebone elements of the RPG experience.  Yes that means menu fighting and walking around town talking to NPCs was part of the thrill.  They associate those common conventions with FFVII and that adds to its legacy in their mind.

One thing that I think makes the older 2D RPGs stand out is the limitations of the hardware.  Square has wanted to make an interactive movie for a long time.  FFVI would have all the pre-rendered backgrounds and FMV of FFVII if the SNES could do that.  There is a certain charm in Square going for broke within the limitations of a cartridge format, 2D graphics and chiptune music.  That's a big reason why 16-bit RPGs stand out.  The devs had enough graphic and sound capabilities to focus more on a story than they ever could on 8-bit consoles BUT they still couldn't go as nuts as they wanted to.  Ambitious games are often very enjoyable because they consistently wow us.  They bust out things we didn't think were possible.  The later titles that use the same conventions on more powerful hardware don't have the same impact.

I think this is a big reason why a lot of people consider this current gen to be underwhelming.  We've hit a point where games rarely have to fight the hardware to do what they want to do.  Now that we can do anything, nothing is impressive.

I just bought DKC on the VC last night.  It's still a pretty beautiful game.  I also had DKC2 back in the early '90s, but never DKC3.  I don't think I even knew about it, since I was deep into PC gaming at the time.  I think I'll play them all leading up to finally taking a crack at Returns, which I've had for a while unopened.

Lost Locke is WAY better. :P

Great Donkey Kong piece, i agree with everything, DKC trilogy stands as one of my favorite games of all time.

You guys are cheating with this double entry.  It isn't like those games were available in a double pack or anything like that.  And it is odd that you excluded DKC3.  It is not as good as the other two but it is still a great game and if you're going to lump the first two DKC games together you might as well give the whole trilogy the entry.

You guys are right about the DKC2 level design.  One of my favourite DKC2 levels is the one where the water rises and lowers so you constantly switch between swimming and platforming.  In the first DKC there are no levels that mix the two.  Any swimming level is entirely swimming.  Mario would have levels that have both but they never had the water level changing.  That was such a cool idea and I never had seen that before.

Mondo in Super Mario World.

I actually like DKC3 better than the first game. Yes, Kiddy Kong is a stupid character, but I felt it had better level designs. This reminds me, I still need to finish that one up. DKC2 was amazing though, I actually completed that one 100% (or 102%?) because I still wanted to play it after I got through all the stages.

I never understand the poo-pooing of DKC3. It was easily my favorite of the trilogy. DKC2 was partially hobbled by the stupid banana coin system, that required you to pay to save or change worlds. Just unnecessary. I also really dug the open map portions of DKC3 and the even more arcane layers of secret collectibles involved. Speaking of which, that's the real shine of the trilogy for me. The platforming baseline might have been simple, but finding all of the secret areas and DK emblems added a lot of value.

I might just be saying this because I beat the speed record for completing DKC3 with 103% that was published in Nintendo Power at the time, and will be forever pleased about that (and I did it on Very Hard mode, so it was 105%)

Super Mario World is one of my top 5 games of all time. There are days when it's number 1. Sure, it doesn't have the pure, old school platforming that the NES Marios had, but what it has is better. Super Mario World was headed in a direction that Nintendo would embrace whole-heartedly with Super Mario 64, in that most levels in Super Mario World have a playground element to them. The levels all invite you to ask, "What's up there? What's over there? What happens when I do this?" and then they reward you for finding out. Previous Mario games invited you to ask these things too, but not as much as Super Mario World.

In addition, Super Mario World feels better to me than any other game ever. The Mario franchise in general has the best character physics in all of gaming, but Super Mario World is the cream of the crop. The way Mario moves, jumps, and flies is just perfect. There's no other word for it. When I play Super Mario World, the controller disappears and Mario and I are one. And we make beautiful music together.

I probably got too gay there at the end...

As a kid I really hated DKC2's save system.  But I also really sucked at the game so by the time I got to the third world it was an accomplishment to beat any level and I did not have the luxury to wait until I accumulated coins.  It was common for me to lose progress because I couldn't save before a Game Over.  But I had the same problem with DKC1 to an extent as well.  In that game you cannot leave a world without using Funky Kong but you usually had to beat a few levels to access Funky for that world (or finding Candy to save).  So usually there was about three levels that had to be completed without getting a Game Over prior to saving and that was often a challenge.  One thing DKC3 really got right is that from the get go you can save after every level.

Super Mario World would not let you save after every level either.  It had key save points and we used to try to pick an easy castle or ghost house to return to to save after creating a new exit.  Saving in a console game was a pretty new idea still at that time (tons of games still used passwords) so I don't think they had quite figured it out.  It was like they felt they had to space these saves out or the game wouldn't be challenging or something like that.  By DKC3 and Yoshi's Island they realized that just saving after every level made sense.  It took a while for game devs to realize that the player wasn't their enemy and that game design didn't just involve stopping the player from succeeding at all costs.

With a username like TrueNerd, you're allowed to make statements like that without sounding gay.

I've never played DKC 2 or 3. In fact the only DK games i've played were the original, DK Jr., DKC 1, and DKJB (I played a demo of King of Swing at Walmart, but didn't like it). I liked DKC, thought it was not one of my favorite SNES games and I never got anywhere near the end of it.

The worst thing about DKC2's save system is that the coins you collected weren't saved. The later levels can be pretty scarce with the coinage, and that's when you would need some. I also remember having to visit certain levels just to get some coins when I was going back through to get all the bonus rooms. It's the only blemish of the game, really.

Also, this thread needs more of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73n7HTcmb5g

It's definitely the best theme in the game, and one of the best pieces of music composed for the Super NES.

I was trying to guess which track Mop would link to without clicking the link.  If it wasn't Brambles it was going to be Fear Factory or Aquatic Ambiance.  Those games had such good soundtracks that multiple songs could be in the running for best SNES music.  As a kid DKC3 disappointed me because the soundtrack is not as good.  There's a lot more forgettable stuff on it and the tracks loop sooner.

The SNES sound chip really adds to the legend of the system.  GBA ports of SNES games often have inferior sounding music.  The N64 didn't even have a sound chip!  The only sound chip that I think compares is the Amiga one.  It's hard to say which is better but those two are undoubtably at the top for chip tunes unless you specifically want beepy boopy NES sounds.  And the Genesis?  Someone once described Genesis music as sounding like someone crushing a beer can.  Streets of Rage is an obvious exception.

Hell, I often find when playing arcade games in MAME or in collections that the music is worse than that of the SNES port.

I thought Fear Factory was the name of the stage that Mining Melancholy was heard since I forget the stage name, but I looked it up and found it was from DKC1. I recognized that one from DKCReturns actually, and it is pretty good, though I like the mine one more. Another one which stood out to me is Hot Head Hop. I've never been a fan of the water theme, it's a little too calm.

The SNES sound quality is pretty amazing. There aren't many Nintendo 64 games that sound better, and I don't think the GBA even compares. I looked up the GBA version of DKC2 on YouTube, and the music for Bramble Blast is a lot worse. I'd actually rather listen to the original Game Boy's rendition of it even though the sound quality is a lot worse!

The SNES legendary sound chip was made by Sony and designed by Ken Kutagari himself.  This is why the GBA had worse audio because Kutagari did such an amazing job designing the SNES sound chip that it was impossible for Nintendo to emulate it on GBA's hardware since Kutagari and Sony were now Nintendo's biggest competition.

Kind of funny how these things turn out.

Just want to throw this out there: The All-stars + World combo wasn't an United States exclusive. Don't know where you got that infor from.

Also Rare ruined Donkey Kong. I'm glad that Nintendo basically disregarded everything they had done when they made Jungle Beat.

Donkey Kong was a dormant character when Rare got him. He had done nothing but cameo appearances (like being in the crowd in Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!!) for about 10 years. They introduced the current DK (see TheMushroomKingdom.net for the whole situation on whether Cranky Kong is the original DK) and gave us Diddy Kong, among others.

I remember 1995 being the time they introduced Epic Center into Nintendo Power, and given that you had the Eartbound->Chrono Trigger double shot that summer I don't blame them.

I love this feature, but I would also love to see a feature on 20 SNES hidden gems. We are all aware of the games that put the SNES on the map, but what about all of the lesser known games that people turned to when they finished with the Super Mario Worlds and Earthbounds which were unexpectedly awesome as well.

Yeah, I know. It doesn't mean it was a good thing. The DKC games were bland, ugly platformers that are grossly overrated and don't get me started on Donkey Kong 64. On the flipside the two last Donkey Kong platformers have been amazing. Tokyo EAD and Retro pumped some much needed creativity into the games and made them fun again.

EAD Tokyo and Retro are probably the two best development studios in the industry right now. As much as people like to look back on Rare fondly, they were never that.

For what it's worth, I love DKC 2, but it's nothing compared to Returns. I really need to get around to playing Jungle Beat.

Ironically, Retro does NOTHING for me. Metroid Prime bored the hell out of me, and DKC Returns tried TOO hard with its levels, making them more frustrating than fun to play.


EAD Tokyo, however, can have my money any day of the week, they deserve it. Underrated development house to be honest.

I might call DKCR the best 2D platformer since Super Mario Bros. 3*, which, as I believe I've already said in this thread, is my favorite game ever.


*Remember, that's coming from someone who played it with a Classic Controller, which I'd imagine removes a lot of frustration.

Definitely. The controls were part of the turn off, and I didn't even mind motion controls in New Super Mario Bros. Wii

And I would call Jungle Beat the best 2D platformer since Super Mario World, which is my favourite game of all-time.

As someone who highly anticipated and was not let down by the original DKC back in the day, I find it hard to believe that someone would say that Rare handled that character poorly.

Look at DK64, the game has almost as many useless characters as a Sonic game.

I will give you DK64, Dasmos. Even such a huge Donkey Kong fan as I was disappointed with that game. However, the original DKC games brought a forgotten character back to the forefront. The worlds we varied and interesting, and the music for the Country series was excellent. The levels themselves weren't quite as good as something like Super Mario World, but they offered an exploration aspect for those who were driven to complete the game. The cast of enemy characters wasn't amazing, but DK's enemies have never blown our mind, even to this day. I am a person who enjoys platforming games, and DKC and its sequel (and even the sequel's sequel, to an extent) were very enjoyable for me. Granted, DKCR is much more sophisticated in several ways (I think it has the most crazy-fun levels in a 2D platformer that I have played), but I still think that Rare's games were excellent in their day, and that shouldn't be forgotten. The graphics may not hold up as well, but I really don't find them difficult to look at, and the platforming is still fun, if not slightly primitive.

Yeah, people have made a good point: Jungle Beat might be the best 2D platformer since SMB3. It's hard to even describe how great that game is, and is all the more impressive in that EAD managed somehow to completely redeem the useless bongo accessory. And the bongos are the only way to play that game.

Don't mean to spam this thread, but I want to voice a long-held frustration.

I remember going bonkers when Yoshi's Island was released, because my parents wouldn't buy it, and none of my friends had it, and the local video store didn't stock it, and thus I never got to play it. Years later I finally played through it using . . . certain means, and I kind of hated it. I was compelled to complete everything (all stars on every level, red coins, whathaveyou), but I didn't enjoy it at all. It was a never-ending marathon of stress as you tried to manage the baby and the star meter, as well as finding all the collectibles. And turning Yoshi into trains and things is just a dumb idea conceptually. I actually like Yoshi's Story way more, as it is transcendentally bizarre visually, and shed the baby/star collecting element.

Alright, time to put in my two cents on the whole Rare/DKC debacle.


Whether you agree with it or not, Rare DID bring back the franchise into the limelight. Nintendo wasn't doing much with him at the time, except the occasional spin-off game (like DK 94), and was mainly a bad guy Mario saw at the end of each level. Sure, everyone remembered Donkey Kong, the GAME, but not THE CHARACTER. Mario was the one remembered and celebrated.


Then came Donkey Kong Country and finally gave him the personality and presence he deserved. The game did wonders for his reputation. People who grew up with the original game suddenly remembered and liked this game, while those that played DKC suddenly appreciate the character and his own legacy.


The gameplay may not have been groundbreaking, but it worked. It was addictive, fun and easy to get into.


The sequels (minus 64) polished the game even further and now we had a great franchise to remember.


If it wasn't for Rare developing Donkey Kong Country, we wouldn't have DK as a playable character in all the spin-off games (Yes, I know we had DK Jr. on Super Mario Kart, but that was the Jr. version) and we wouldn't have gotten Jungle Blast and DKC Returns, the games EVERYONE loves to death.


Like it or not, Rare set the stepping stones for the character to follow, and what we got was something truly great in the end.


I won't argue that not everyone liked the games, just saying that credit should be given here.

I disagree slightly with that characterization. DK94 wasn't a spin-off, it was the beginning of the return of DK. DK94 was pushed quite heavily at the time, and it launched the Super Game Boy... there hadn't been any DK games for over 11 years before that. DK94 began the development of DK's personality, and it was the first game that gave him his characteristic tie (by Miyamoto). DKC followed only months after, and I don't question Rare's influence, but it wasn't developed in a vacuum.

DK94 is also better than all the DKC games combined.

My brain is going to explode

I never liked pre-rendered graphics styles. They're always ugly. DKC was one ugly game and games like MvDK continue that legacy of ugly. DK94's sprites were low quality since they were small and on the Game Boy but they still had more character and seemed more alive than the plastic figurines in the rendered games.

Also Yoshi's Island... That game was disappointing. I was so excited when I got the game because it was finally a proper game starring Yoshi but it just wasn't as fun as e.g. SMW.

Thought I'd chime in to throw my support behind anyone who thinks Donkey Kong Country is overrated crap.

In DKC, you need to fall into a pit to find a secret. I think there's some minor hint of a barrel's existence there, but that is a thing you have to do in that game.

Yoshi's Island, on the other hand, is everything right in a platformer, though I agree with whoever made the comment about having to collect everything. I love YI, but replaying it can become torturous because I am compelled to collect everything.

Sometimes there is no barrel. Or banana. You just need dumb luck, and that sucks balls. Hell, there's one bonus stage that's tough to get to, and then you get in there, and you can win a BARREL which you can carry to one end of the bonus room to find A BONUS ROOM WITHIN A BONUS ROOM. Ridonkulous.

All these people hating on Yoshi's Island.  That game was like mainlining pure joy.  I played it straight through to 100% completion on each save in turn.

Yoshi's Island is my second-favorite game on the system, and one of the only times a heavy emphasis on collecting in a platformer didn't bug the hell out of me.

I first played Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island last year, so I kind of missed the boat on that one. I'm not sure why it took me so long to acquire the game, it just sort of fell through the cracks I guess. It's definitely one of the most well-crafted games on the system, and I enjoyed it a lot. But I didn't bother with 100% because it just isn't fun to get 100 points in a level. If I didn't have to collect all of the red coins and flowers in one run, I might have actually done it, but as it stands it's just tedious. For this reason, I haven't played four of the six bonus stages.

Only one game left. And it better be Kirby Superstar. Greatest Kirby game. Iconic soundtrack. The buddy system. The abilities with many side abilities. 8 games in 1. What a deal. And each game gets more and more epic (if you play the gourmet race first). The Arena challenge. Not to mention, this game obviously had an influence on Hal when they made Smash Bros. You can see where they got some of their ideas for Smash Bros. when playing this game.

If this game is not on the list, it is invalid.

And I can't believe Mario Paint got the shaft. The flyswatter game alone is better than half the games on here.

A little late, but I have to agree with regards to DKC.  Not a huge fan of the series.  Love all the love DK94 is getting.  It and the Mario vs. Donkey Kong game are two great games.  While I do enjoy the Minis games, but I would *love* for Nintendo to bring back one a game in this style...

You obviously haven't listened to RFN, Khush. If you had, you'd have heard them confirm it's on there, and also heard one Jonathan Metts vehemently argue against its inclusion.

I absolutely love Super Mario RPG.  I've played through it several times as well.  This was one of my great finds while Toys R Us was selling all of their SNES stock mad cheap back in the late 90's.  I picked a new copy for $15.  I also picked up sealed copies at a great price of All-Stars and the 3 Star Wars games.

There's a reason Jonny's not Director anymore, and it's not because he's a doctor now, it's because he doesn't like Kirby Super Star.

Kidding aside, the Kirby Super Star article will go up soon. I always loved the game because of the variety. Not every game included is amazing, but there is enough good to make it wonderful. Kirby level design has always been weak, but that's not why I enjoy Kirby games. I think my glowing review of Epic Yarn last year touched on this a bit. Kirby games are like going for a walk in an upbeat environment. I'm not going to these games to be challenged or frustrated. I play Kirby games because they're enjoyable, charming, and fun.

Guilty as charged. But which episode because now I'm curious to hear why Mr. Mett's didn't like the game.

Because he is a SPACE CASE... :p

Well then, Milky Way Wishes. Did he not play far enough into it?

Just read the summary. Could have been more glowing with praise.

damn you NWR your lists make my backlog longer and longer and longer. Oh well, this is probably the best possible time to have a backlog anyways.