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Wii

Sega: MadWorld a "Mismatch" with Wii Audience

by Andy Goergen - April 7, 2010, 10:09 am EDT
Total comments: 119 Source: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?i...

Sega's head of Western operations considers the 360 and PS3 the natural home of Platinum Games' titles.

In an Interview with CVG, Sega's head of Western operations Mike Hayes commented on MadWorld and how it fared on Wii. When asked about whether or not he felt that the "natural home" of Platinum Games titles was on the HD consoles, he agreed.

In regards to MadWorld in particular, Hayes admitted that, "Critically it got a lot of acclaim, but commercially it wasn't the success we wanted it to be. Clearly that was a mismatch with the Wii audience - particularly in terms of the amount of cross-ownership between Wii and the other home platforms. If you're going to play a mature-rated game, you're going to get your 360, PC or PS3 out to do so. But you can't knock us for having a go."

Hayes added that since "Platinum Games is such a cutting-edge developer they need the PS3 or 360 to realise what they actually want to do", noting that the company is "more at home" on those consoles. He went on to say that House of the Dead, as an IP, was more "credible" with the Wii audience.

MadWorld was released in March 2009 in North America, and February 2010 in Japan.

Talkback

PeachylalaApril 07, 2010

Quote:

"If you're going to play a mature-rated game, you're going to get your 360, PC or PS3 out to do so. But you can't knock us for having a go."

Oh Mike, you are either really naive or just plain stupid.

MadWorld was not a game that should've been sold for fifty dollars. It was too short, it's replay value was crap and the game just screamed niche. It's too bad that even though we've been saying this over and over again since the game released, THIRD PARTIES JUST DON'T LISTEN.

If you treat the Nintendo fanbase like retards, they treat you the same way back. You also can't always count on the PS3/360 audience to back you up, because really, everyone listed here thought they would and look where they are now.

ZoltanApril 07, 2010

Oh Sega Sega Sega, seriously you're thoughts can sometimes be so idiotic that it hurts.  Every game made by Clover/Platinum games has been a niche title and as a result have always sold to a specific type of market that really enjoys those types of games.  If you were to compare the sales of Madworld to those of previouse Clover titles like Okami and GodHand on the PS2 (you know, the system with the biggest install base previous generation) you'll see that the title has done pretty well for itself given the circumstances.  Basically if you can't sell those types of games on a system as big as the PS2, what makes you think it would do better on the 360 or PS3?  Not only that but it kind of had the Dead Space Extraction problem of having too little content to garner the full price.

I mean No More Heroes sold just as about as much as Madworld (and if you can compare Clover's games to anyone it's Grasshopper)but you don't find Suda 51 complaining, he probably had his expectations set to a more reasonable level.

KDR_11kApril 07, 2010

What IS the audience for shallow, repetitive, stylized bloodbaths?

GoldenPhoenixApril 07, 2010

How has Bayonetta been selling?

King of TwitchApril 07, 2010

They're such a cutting-edge developer they were forced to make an overpriced, short, niche, shallow, repetitive,  black-and-white stylized kill-sim for the Wii and forgot to include 60Hz support for PAL versions?


Oh yea, best to blame it on the Wii audience.

PeachylalaApril 07, 2010

According to VGCha*SLAP* the wiki page for Bayonetta, the game sold over one million combined for both systems... according to NDP. But then again, it's a Wiki page, it can't be honest.

The first NDP report for Bayonetta in Feburary was 100,000 for 360 and 60,000 for the PS3... from the Platinum Games Forum.

SalesBot may know how much it sold. But 100,000 in one month isn't bad. (except when you count the fact NSMBWii raped it's sales that month.)

Guitar SmasherApril 07, 2010

Quote:

"Critically it got a lot of acclaim, but commercially it wasn't the success we wanted it to be. Clearly that was a mismatch with the Wii audience - particularly in terms of the amount of cross-ownership between Wii and the other home platforms. If you're going to play a mature-rated game, you're going to get your 360, PC or PS3 out to do so.

So for dual console owners, the game wasn't good enough to warrant purchase.  If they expect the game to have done better if it was available for 360/PC/PS3, is this an admission that Wii gamers are more picky?

Or maybe they're just too proud to admit that their game would never amount to more than a niche title.

PeachylalaApril 07, 2010

I already answered Sega's question, they are just too naive/stupid to care.

Dirk TemporoApril 07, 2010

Interesting, because like a month ago, Sega said that it sold fine and that they had no problem putting M rated games on the Wii.

NinGurl69 *hugglesApril 07, 2010

Sega announced Conduit 2 like an hour ago.  Clearly this was a match for the Wii audience, something that would make the buyers leave their 360, PC or PS3 in their closet.

Sega, if you're going to troll, hire better ones next time.

Ian SaneApril 07, 2010

Why is House of the Dead "credible" while this isn't?  Aren't they both 'M' rated games?

PlugabugzApril 07, 2010

Quote from: Zap

They're such a cutting-edge developer they were forced to make an overpriced, short, niche, shallow, repetitive,  black-and-white stylized kill-sim for the Wii and forgot to include 60Hz support for PAL versions?

BINGO. This guaranteed a no-sale from me and after 35 mins on rental i sent it back.

NinGurl69 *hugglesApril 07, 2010

Clearly that was a mismatch with the PAL audience.

vherubApril 07, 2010

I think if the wii had a trophy/achievement system like the 360/ps3, it could have gone a long way to increasing replay value as well as getting players to try more exotic attacks and combos in the game. It's easy to spam the same attacks over and over, but there is a decent amount of variation for a player willing to explore.
All the more so with a point system. I don't think it's just an age thing, it's also the lack of an online community and shared gameplay experience that hurts a game like madworld.

PeachylalaApril 07, 2010

Quote:

I think if the wii had a trophy/achievement system like the 360/ps3, it could have gone a long way to increasing replay value as well as getting players to try more exotic attacks and combos in the game.

They already have, it's called Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

PeachylalaApril 07, 2010

Quote:

I mean No More Heroes sold just as about as much as Madworld (and if you can compare Clover's games to anyone it's Grasshopper)but you don't find Suda 51 complaining, he probably had his expectations set to a more reasonable level.

Quote:

What IS the audience for shallow, repetitive, stylized bloodbaths?

MadWorld took itself too seriously. NMH was better in this regard since it was almost like a spoof of those types of games (AND YOU FOUGHT IN A GIANT MECH AGAINST A BUNCH OF TITTY PHYSIC CHERLEADERS.)

GoldenPhoenixApril 07, 2010

Hasn't House of the Dead Overkill sold pretty well overall?

Quote from: GoldenPhoenix

How has Bayonetta been selling?

Bayonetta is brought to you today by the letters T & A.

broodwarsApril 07, 2010

So Madworld was a mismatch with players like me?  Yeah, but not because of its subject matter.  It's because it was boring, repetitive, and incredibly short-yet-too-long-for-its-concept.  However, I can't think of any console that would have been a good fit on.  Seriously, Sega, sometimes I think you go out of your way to try to insult me.  -_-'

Fatty The HuttApril 07, 2010

Madworld was released February 10, 2010 in Japan? I wonder how its been selling there?

ThePermApril 07, 2010

Sega needs to bring back the executives who were willing to spend $70 million to make a game, those guys were wreckless, but they made great games :P I want Shenmue 3 gawdammit

broodwarsApril 07, 2010

Quote from: ThePerm

Sega needs to bring back the executives who were willing to spend $70 million to make a game, those guys were wreckless, but they made great games :P: I want Shenmue 3 gawdammit


Add Skies of Arcadia 2 and a proper Valkyria Chronicles console game sequel as well.

GoldenPhoenixApril 07, 2010

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: ThePerm

Sega needs to bring back the executives who were willing to spend $70 million to make a game, those guys were wreckless, but they made great games :P: : I want Shenmue 3 gawdammit


Add Skies of Arcadia 2 and a proper Valkyria Chronicles console game sequel as well.

And while they're at it, a decent Sonic game again....I know that is too much to ask.

ThePermApril 07, 2010

i will pay money for Shenmue 3, don't they understand...its like i invested my time on something, only to be put on a cliffhanger for 10 years!

ShyGuyApril 07, 2010

I think a better parallel for MadWorld than Bayonetta would be God Hand. How well did that sell?

BlackNMild2k1April 07, 2010

I don't know, but it should get an updated Wiimake.

Dirk TemporoApril 07, 2010

Quote from: Peachylala

MadWorld took itself too seriously

So not taking itself seriously at all is too serious for you?

PeachylalaApril 07, 2010

Quote from: Dirk

Quote from: Peachylala

MadWorld took itself too seriously

So not taking itself seriously at all is too serious for you?

I have my reasons.

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

I don't know, but it should get an updated Wiimake.

That's what Ready At Dawn Studios is good for. ;)

KDR_11kApril 08, 2010

Quote from: ShyGuy²

I think a better parallel for MadWorld than Bayonetta would be God Hand. How well did that sell?

No idea but people always say Mad World did way better.

PeachylalaApril 08, 2010

According to word of mouth, God Hand barely edged 10k, WORLDWIDE. This and Okami failing was Clover getting kicked in the balls by Capcom.

Madworld did do better, but it still isn't a great game.

ThePermApril 08, 2010

and whats even worse about Sega's assumptions was I NEVER SAW THIS TITLE AT WAL*MART

i probably would have bought it in the launch hype window, but because of its unavailability iv decided to wait till its ultra low price window instead.

NinGurl69 *hugglesApril 08, 2010

You can also blame retailers for not stocking various 3rd Party games because they, too, were caught up in the casual party game craze.  If it wasn't a party game, it wasn't a match for the Wii audience, 2006-2009.

Member of Wii audience: Sega a "mismatch" with my money

YmeegodApril 08, 2010

You do realize it's not just Sega right?  Just look at how well any of Big N's Mature rated games sold or why we don't see them but once in a blue moon?

Just look at No More Heroes 2--not going break the 100k mark even though it was reviewed favorable.  Yeah it's not exactly a casual game and the marketting budget was low but it should have sold more.  Red Steel 2 again, getting better than average reviews but it's not hitting the sales (think it's doing better the NMH2 since it hit 100k at least.

Certain genres sell better on certain consoles.  For example, Sega's latest Sonic Cart game is selling 3X more on the WII vrs the 360 even though it's the exact same game.  The fanbase is already cut and dry at this point the only thing Nintendo can do in try to improve it's image for next genertaion.  For starters, it's freaking Friends Code needs to go.


GoldenPhoenixApril 09, 2010

Quote from: Ymeegod

You do realize it's not just Sega right?  Just look at how well any of Big N's Mature rated games sold or why we don't see them but once in a blue moon?

Just look at No More Heroes 2--not going break the 100k mark even though it was reviewed favorable.  Yeah it's not exactly a casual game and the marketting budget was low but it should have sold more.  Red Steel 2 again, getting better than average reviews but it's not hitting the sales (think it's doing better the NMH2 since it hit 100k at least.

Certain genres sell better on certain consoles.  For example, Sega's latest Sonic Cart game is selling 3X more on the WII vrs the 360 even though it's the exact same game.  The fanbase is already cut and dry at this point the only thing Nintendo can do in try to improve it's image for next genertaion.  For starters, it's freaking Friends Code needs to go.

Return on investment is what matters most, not total units sold. NMH was Suda's best selling game, and NMH2 is keeping pace with the first. Red Steel 2 hasn't even been out long enough to determine to any extent of what word of mouth will do with it. Be patient, the Wii has a unique market where games don't sell like PS3/360 games which are seldom long tale sales, and get the bulk of their sales from the game's launch month.

YmeegodApril 09, 2010


"word of mouth will do with it" Hasn't done anything with these games.  NMH2 is actually selling worse the orginal game same with RS2.  Mature rated games usually don't spring back unless it's x-mas time.  The games you're talking about are mostly casual games like Ubisoft Just Dance which is actually selling more now then it did in it's opening month.

Suda is most likely going be out of another publisher, I don't think any of his titles made it in the black even.  He has some talent (interesting ideas anyhow but he lacks the team to make a finished product).

I'm pretty at least one Suda game was profitable; I doubt anyone would have greenlit a No More Heroes sequel if the first one didn't make money. He makes games on such a small budget that they can sell 100-200k and make money, a lesson the rest of the industry should learn.

YmeegodApril 09, 2010

Nope, the only reason why they made any money for a sequel is they sold the publishing rights to multiple companies.  Red whatever that company is bought the rights to make an XBox/PS3 port (think they are both the developer and publisher).

And no, some games do get sequels even though the first one didn't make a profit.  Basically if you recycle the old game and add a few new elements you might be able to get back a better return or at least recover more of your loss.  Prince of Persia Sands of Time for example.

BeautifulShyApril 09, 2010

Oh this is so entertaining Ymeegod!
Let us discuss this a bit more.
In its first month World at War was like 100 K. The other versions were much higher.
Now you say that M rated Wii games don't come back to sell.
Please explain to me in you infinite knowledge how the title managed to sell 1 million units? Please let me know.

Let us look over the first No More Heroes. It is at 500 K at the moment. Suda51's other titles didn't even make a blip on the sales charts.

Now you are comparing the second No more Heroes game with the first. Let us compare the games which were released at the time of each release.

No more Heroes was released with Endless Ocean in January 2008.
Not much competition.
Flashforward to January 2010.
Tatsunoko VS Capcom came out I believe the same day. MAG and I think Mass Effect 2 came out as well the same day.

You would think that No More Heroes 2 would be a harder sell to consumers with all these core games coming out at the same time.

As far as Red Steel and Red Steel 2 as others said you have to be patient.For me personally I haven't gotten it because there is so many games that I am trying to catch up on.

LJKKJLCM9April 09, 2010

Quote from: Ymeegod

You do realize it's not just Sega right?  Just look at how well any of Big N's Mature rated games sold or why we don't see them but once in a blue moon?

Just look at No More Heroes 2--not going break the 100k mark even though it was reviewed favorable.  Yeah it's not exactly a casual game and the marketting budget was low but it should have sold more.  Red Steel 2 again, getting better than average reviews but it's not hitting the sales (think it's doing better the NMH2 since it hit 100k at least.

I liked No More Heroes and NMH2, but honestly, they weren't anything spectacular.  And they were most definitely niche titles.  Red Steel 2 I was sold on with how awesome it looked and everything, but then there is no multiplayer at all?  FPS needs multiplayer these days, and they could have easily done a two player sword fighting mode.  That made it no longer an insta-buy for me, though I will get this in the future.  MadWorld I was highly interested in, but because of the short length and repetitive nature, I never bought it.

The real issue here is not M-rated titles selling.  It's that the M-rated titles available on PS3/360 are of much higher quality.  Give me an actual well developed awesome M rated game that competes with those on the other systems, and plenty of people would buy it in a heartbeat.  Why would I buy Madworld, when I can buy God of War 3, or even Ninja Gaiden 1 or 2 (Sigma for PS3)?  And No More Heroes is a niche title no matter what system it would have been on.  That's what hurt The Conduit. It's a decent game, but it in no way truly competes with the FPS offerings on the other systems.

THE JACKEL

GoldenPhoenixApril 09, 2010

Quote from: Ymeegod

"word of mouth will do with it" Hasn't done anything with these games.  NMH2 is actually selling worse the orginal game same with RS2.  Mature rated games usually don't spring back unless it's x-mas time.  The games you're talking about are mostly casual games like Ubisoft Just Dance which is actually selling more now then it did in it's opening month.

Suda is most likely going be out of another publisher, I don't think any of his titles made it in the black even.  He has some talent (interesting ideas anyhow but he lacks the team to make a finished product).

Red Steel was a launch title the chances of RS2 selling the same are ridiculous to begin with. NMH2, we'll see.

KDR_11kApril 09, 2010

Let me just ask this: Why the fuck do you blame the Wii for Suda 51 games being niche?

Generally listen to what companies say about their games. E.g. TvC wasn't a huge seller but Capcom was pleased with it, that means they didn't expect it to be a huge seller and budgeted accordingly. Companies know that not every game is a potential multi-million seller.

As for RS2, the easiest way to add MP to that would be a set of challenge rooms where you go for the high score (how much money you earn) with online leaderboards. I wonder if it'd be feasible to make a WiiWare spinoff RS2 Challenges that's only highscore challenges, I'd buy that.

PodingsApril 09, 2010

How incredibly obnoxious. Compared to Bayonetta, Madworld represented half the effort, and appeared on half the amount of systems. No surprise to me you get half the sales.

The demographic thing simply isn't true either; Capcom repackaged Okami for Wii, and got DOUBLE the sales they had on PS2. And even that game's combined sales don't reach Madworld, despite receiving much greater reviews.

I think SEGA knows the limited appeal of Clover/Platinum Games' creations.
This is probably just a case of one guy rising to spew idiocy.

PeachylalaApril 09, 2010

Quote from: Podings

I think SEGA knows the limited appeal of Clover/Platinum Games' creations.
This is probably just a case of one guy rising to spew idiocy.

Typical SEGA trolling.

SEGA pretends to know about games when they don't know how to make them to begin with.

Quote from: Golden

Red Steel was a launch title the chances of RS2 selling the same are ridiculous to begin with.

Not to mention that both Nintendo fans and casual fans think Ubi is bottom barrel.

YmeegodApril 10, 2010

"World of War"  You do realize it was shipping a few months prior to X-mas?  And I did state what happens around x-mas sales.  It's basically the same as MW sales (hit 1 million on the WII) then tapered down.  And that's mostly because it's a brandname and it's still not even close to what the sales are on the PS3 or XBox.

"Capcom repackaged Okami for Wii, and got DOUBLE the sales they had on PS2"  Actually that's not true they ended up around the exact same number 300K. 

What alot of you are forgetting is you are focussing on OVERALL sales but Madworld didn't hit 500K prior to being a bargin bin game. Was less than 200K prior to hitting barginbin status.

-------------------------

And like I said, it's a litte late to change demographics at this point in the console lifespan.  Kinda like Sony's Move and Natal--to late to make much of a difference. 

BeautifulShyApril 10, 2010

So you discount World at War because it is a brand name. With that logic why don't we discount Grand theft Auto's sales. Oh what about Mario?
Or even Halo?

On Madworlds sales you are discounting its sales because it was discounted in price. Hey what about all the HD titles that had sales after they were reduced in price?

Point being is that this can go two ways.

YmeegodApril 10, 2010

And I consider them as well--

MW2 sold 10 million+ at full price.  Bayonett is sold I think already at 500K on the XBox and similar on the PS3.

A good example of a poor seller on the HD consoles is Mirror's Edge.  Think it's over 2 million units sold but EA consider it a loss because most of it's sales was because the game was marked down. 

---------

Market research doesn't lie. 

KDR_11kApril 10, 2010

Quote from: Ymeegod

What alot of you are forgetting is you are focussing on OVERALL sales but Madworld didn't hit 500K prior to being a bargin bin game. Was less than 200K prior to hitting barginbin status.

Yeah but Mad World was a game so low in value that it didn't deserve to sell at full price, that's not the fault of the Wii.

Dirk TemporoApril 11, 2010

Quote from: KDR_11k

Quote from: Ymeegod

What alot of you are forgetting is you are focussing on OVERALL sales but Madworld didn't hit 500K prior to being a bargin bin game. Was less than 200K prior to hitting barginbin status.

Yeah but Mad World was a game so low in value that it didn't deserve to sell at full price, that's not the fault of the Wii.

Hurr I didn't like it so that means it's shit.

KDR_11kApril 11, 2010

It's a 6 hour game that gets repetitive. The general consensus was to get a rental because it's not worth buying.

PeachylalaApril 12, 2010

Quote from: Ymeegod

Bayonett is sold I think already at 500K on the XBox and similar on the PS3. 

---------

Market research doesn't lie. 

Too bad for you that poor sexy Bayonetta has suddenly fallen off the sales charts for both version. You know what else doesn't lie? Common sense. Bayonetta's combined sales for both systems are in one million, but is Sega and Platinum getting back the money? Bayonetta obviously had a bigger budget then MadWorld, but only sold a 500k more on the systems combined. Will that be enough to get the money back?

Bayonetta isn't that great either. At least Devil May Cry 1 had the whole "Was a proto-Resi Evil 4 build". Bayonetta is just fanservice and nothing else.

YmeegodApril 12, 2010

It's hitting a million prior to a price cut, that's $40 by million (retailers take a good chunk): meaning 40 million in revenue vrs Madworld's 250K (at best it's sales prior to price cuts) by $33: not even 10million.

Even if production values is double that 4x the revenue and still growing.  Which means in this case the clear winner is........

And it's not just Madworld sales neither, nor was this the begining.  Certain genres have always sold better on different consoles and that's not going change, especially when Nintendo themshelves isn't doing anything about it though with all their billions you would think they would be expanding their developement teams not shirking.

Sales data doesn't lie:  action games sell better on the Xbox/PS systems, platformers see better on the WII. 

DasmosApril 12, 2010

MadWorld doesn't have TnA though.

GoldenPhoenixApril 12, 2010

Quote from: Ymeegod

It's hitting a million prior to a price cut, that's $40 by million (retailers take a good chunk): meaning 40 million in revenue vrs Madworld's 250K (at best it's sales prior to price cuts) by $33: not even 10million.

Even if production values is double that 4x the revenue and still growing.  Which means in this case the clear winner is........

And it's not just Madworld sales neither, nor was this the begining.  Certain genres have always sold better on different consoles and that's not going change, especially when Nintendo themshelves isn't doing anything about it though with all their billions you would think they would be expanding their developement teams not shirking.

Sales data doesn't lie:  action games sell better on the Xbox/PS systems, platformers see better on the WII. 

Where has nintendo been shrinking their development teams? Nintendo has released and published more games on Wii then either GC or N64.

Mop it upApril 12, 2010

Shh! We don't want facts to interfere with slamming Nintendo.

PeachylalaApril 12, 2010

Ymeegod needs to troll somehow.

YmeegodApril 13, 2010

"Where has nintendo been shrinking their development teams? Nintendo has released and published more games on Wii then either GC or N64."

Actually nintendo's last addon team was Monolith Soft way back in 2004ish (Baten's developer), since then they actually went downhill, either they chose to stop support/funding or the developers are simply making just DS games.  Cling (Little King Story) rings a bell.  They lost SK, Rare, Leftfields Studios, ect and never bother to replace them.  Sure they sold Rare and formed a Q-fund but where did that 300million dollars go?  There's only three titles that I know of that used it besides the FFCC for the GC *130million* nintendo gave Sqaure for that POS.  At least they did get exclusive rights to DQIX and X which doesn't effect US market but was a big sting to Sony's Japanese market shares.  There's been plenty of developer's that died in the last few years that nintendo could have bought for *cheap*. 

It's funny how easy you can call someone a troll but all I stated is the facts.  You can't blame Sega 100% for the WII's market without bringing some of that fault towards Nintendo. 

PeachylalaApril 13, 2010

Nintendo does their own thing, people whine.

Nintendo does their own games, third parties whine that they take away sales.

It's hilarious, really.

YmeegodApril 13, 2010

Sega's not exactly whining though, all he stated was the game didn't hit expections so they are targetting HD consoles which is true.  Action games in general sell better on the XBox/PS3 systems.  That's no different they Ubisoft dropping support for it's Rayman series on the HD consoles.


Mop it upApril 13, 2010

Show me a game in black and white that has sold well on XBox 360 or PS3.

That one. You know, the one with the guy who's got the thing that does stuff? That one.

YmeegodApril 13, 2010

? You could just look at the top 100 sales for each console and compare--VGC has them and you can even fliter by genre.

http://vgchartz.com

Mop it upApril 13, 2010

I don't see a filter for games in black and white.

YmeegodApril 13, 2010

Are you that lazy?
http://vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=&console=Wii&publisher=&genre=Action&minSales=0&results=50&sort=Total
Vrs
http://vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=&console=X360&publisher=&genre=Action&minSales=0&results=50&sort=Total

Mop it upApril 13, 2010

I don't think you understand what I'm asking.

MadWorld has black and white graphics. The only colour in the game is red for the blood.

Are there any games on the XBox 360 or PS3 with black and white graphics?

YmeegodApril 13, 2010

There's that xbla game The Misadventures of P.B. Winterbottom and I think two more or on it's way. 

PeachylalaApril 14, 2010

VGchartz.

Why.

Quote:

Action games in general sell better on the XBox/PS3 systems.

When they have a massive advertising budget and are overhyped massively, yes that will work. It can also blow up in your face too. GRIN says hi.

YmeegodApril 14, 2010

And you point being?  The plenty of WII party games that fail does that mean nintendo shouldn't make another one?  Madworld had both hype and Ads, it won E3 awards for 2 years prior to launch so you can't say it wasn't covered.

You have to make a better agruement then that. 

-----------

PeachylalaApril 14, 2010

It did not deserve those awards, and the TV advertisements were bizarre. Reviews may have praised the game, but IT SUCKED.

Also, the Wii party games that fail deserve to fail. All they are trying to do is ride off of Wii Sports success. But I don't see how that has anything to do with using VGChartz as an argument and why MadWorld sucks.

Still, I am having fun. =D

GoldenPhoenixApril 14, 2010

Quote from: Ymeegod

"Where has nintendo been shrinking their development teams? Nintendo has released and published more games on Wii then either GC or N64."

Actually nintendo's last addon team was Monolith Soft way back in 2004ish (Baten's developer), since then they actually went downhill, either they chose to stop support/funding or the developers are simply making just DS games.  Cling (Little King Story) rings a bell.  They lost SK, Rare, Leftfields Studios, ect and never bother to replace them.  Sure they sold Rare and formed a Q-fund but where did that 300million dollars go?  There's only three titles that I know of that used it besides the FFCC for the GC *130million* nintendo gave Sqaure for that POS.  At least they did get exclusive rights to DQIX and X which doesn't effect US market but was a big sting to Sony's Japanese market shares.  There's been plenty of developer's that died in the last few years that nintendo could have bought for *cheap*. 

It's funny how easy you can call someone a troll but all I stated is the facts.  You can't blame Sega 100% for the WII's market without bringing some of that fault towards Nintendo. 

What about Retro studios? What about Level 5 (a 3rd party developer but has close ties to Nintendo)?

Cing was a 3rd party developer as well who got themselves in massive debt.

Silicon Knights was doing Nintendo no favors with the financial bomb that was Twin Snakes and besides they were free to go elsewhere.

Rare, well, rare was on heavy decline and was purchased by MS who has not benefited from them.

Seriously, this is kind of silly. What about Sora LTD? They are newly formed to create who knows what.

What about Arika, the creators of the Endless Ocean games? Do they not count.

Really you should get your facts straight before bringing up a piss ant 3rd party develop who got themselves in a ton of debt, another 3rd party developer who made 2 whole games for NIntendo, and a 2nd party developer who was on rapid decline. Retro studios is worth more then any of these companies combined right now, and Monolith is creating an exclusive RPG for Wii. 


YmeegodApril 14, 2010

A short game doesn't mean much, RE5 was considered short and it sold what 4.5 million?
"Also, the Wii party games that fail deserve to fail" Then wouldn't Grin be in the same boat?  Don't recall them making a decent game.

BeautifulShyApril 14, 2010

Resident Evil is an established brand. Madworld is not.

YmeegodApril 14, 2010

Retro was brought when? 2001 During the GC Era?
And Arika is freaking 3rd party: they make XBLA games too.  Nintendo hasn't GROWN during the WII ERA.
Level 5 is 3rd party and they don't even have a WII game at the market?  Sure they are talking about it but what's good is that when you can't even play it?

PeachylalaApril 14, 2010

Ymeegod's posts make this thread more fun then it is!

Quote from: Ymeegod

A short game doesn't mean much, RE5 was considered short and it sold what 4.5 million?

RE games have always been short, what saves it is replay value, the best game being Resi Evil 2 in terms of replay . MadWorld didn't have that. I even said that on the first page in my first post on this page. IT HELPS TO HAVE REPLAY VALUE YA KNOW.

Quote from: Maxi

Resident Evil is an established brand. Madworld is not.

Quote:

Level 5 is 3rd party and they don't even have a WII game at the  market?  Sure they are talking about it but what's good is that when  you can't even play it?

That Wii game in development? Uh, yeah, the next entry in a mega-popular franchise in Japan. Sold bucketloads with the DS entry, will do the same on Wii.

Thank you for making this thread fun Ymeegod.

Dirk TemporoApril 14, 2010

Quote from: Peachylala

Reviews may have praised the game, but IT ONLY LASTED SIX HOURS.

Man Half-Life sure does suck, huh? Also Super Mario World.

PeachylalaApril 14, 2010

Quote from: Dirk

Quote from: Peachylala

Reviews may have praised the game, but IT ONLY LASTED SIX HOURS.

Man Half-Life sure does suck, huh? Also Super Mario World.

I should rephrase that.

EDIT: I just did.

YmeegodApril 14, 2010

Level 5 is multiplaform, I have all thier games minus WKC? How does that change nintendo's growth?  Nintendo's doesn't have much to do with them other publisher in other markets.  Sony does the same thing with them.  They are not part of nintendo team.  Hense no growth. 

KDR_11kApril 14, 2010

Quote from: Dirk

Quote from: Peachylala

Reviews may have praised the game, but IT ONLY LASTED SIX HOURS.

Man Half-Life sure does suck, huh? Also Super Mario World.

I think HL1 was way longer than 6 hours but either way, it's "lasts", not "time to beat". You can beat SMW in 15 minutes but that doesn't mean you're done with the game. HL1 had TONS of multiplayer. Most people never wanted to touch MW again after beating it.

GoldenPhoenixApril 14, 2010

Quote from: Ymeegod

Retro was brought when? 2001 During the GC Era?
And Arika is freaking 3rd party: they make XBLA games too.  Nintendo hasn't GROWN during the WII ERA.
Level 5 is 3rd party and they don't even have a WII game at the market?  Sure they are talking about it but what's good is that when you can't even play it?

                          Level 5 is multiplaform, I  have all thier games minus WKC? How does that change nintendo's growth?    Nintendo's doesn't have much to do with them other publisher in other  markets.  Sony does the same thing with them.  They are not part of  nintendo team.  Hense no growth.                       

Says the guy who somehow regurgitated Cing into this debate, who has always been a 3rd party developer, and their games on Nintendo platforms have never been hits, nothing like the Layton series, not even close. Seriously your argument is shallow at best, Nintendo has released or published more games for Wii then GC or N64, that is a fact.

The only legit company that was worth a crap anymore that Nintendo truly lost was LeftField and they bought out Nintendo's shares so they could be independent. There have no cutbacks or downsizing of their teams. Also as any business professional will attest to, buying companies with issues can invite cancer into your company if you are not careful. When you purchase a company you get their culture and baggage with it, so growing your business by purchasing every company you see out there that is struggling would make you a moronic business person. Nintendo is smart about their purchases (and sales as in Rare), unlike a company like EA who is screwing themselves big time with all developers they've sucked up.

Anyway back to the discussion, here is another significant developer, Next Level. While not a 2nd party it is once again far more important then Cing or Silikon Knights ever were in regards to game sales. We even have Skip who is a small but talented company who is crafting the art style games. But I guess you just manipulate your argument, before Cing was used, now that I debunked that with other examples it doesn't matter because they aren't "apart of Nintendo's team" (not even sure what the heck that is supposed to mean anyway). So freaken what? Nintendo has been publishing more games then they have on GC or N64, they don't need to buy development teams in order to grow, that is being done via publishing. Seriously, this is a sad argument and lacks a fundamental understanding of what "buying developers" truly means, growth through purchasing others is not always a good thing.

BlackNMild2k1April 14, 2010

Iwata has already said that he doesn't like buying companies since you can't buy the talent and that is where the true value in a company is. That is why they prefer to develop strong and healthy relationships through collaboration or publishing deals.

broodwarsApril 14, 2010

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

Iwata has already said that he doesn't like buying companies since you can't buy the talent and that is where the true value in a company is. That is why they prefer to develop strong and healthy relationships through collaboration or publishing deals.


And the evidence of these "strong and healthy relationships" is...?  Seriously, I'm struggling to think of a single 3rd party Nintendo's managed to endear just to the Wii and has developed great titles for them.

EDIT: Upon second thought, I suppose there's the Epic Mickey team but we're already seeing rumors that they might go multiplatform due to the Move so that game's future is uncertain.

BlackNMild2k1April 14, 2010

They worked with Ubisoft on RS2, they are funding The Last Story, they got Treasure to make S&P2 and are advertising Monster Hunter Tri. I'm sure there are atleast a dozen or more other examples, but I'm not gonna go looking for them.

It would also be nice of Nintendo to offer full marketing support to Disney for exclusivity of the Epic Mickey. If they can solidify a hit with the Disney audience, that could go a long way towards bringing KH3 to the Wii/Wii2. Seems like a win/win situation to me since Disney would get Square into making another KH (and the Wii) and Nintendo finally get to see Square Enix put in a real effort towards an actual RPG for the Wii.

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

Iwata has already said that he doesn't like buying companies since you can't buy the talent and that is where the true value in a company is. That is why they prefer to develop strong and healthy relationships through collaboration or publishing deals.


And the evidence of these "strong and healthy relationships" is...?  Seriously, I'm struggling to think of a single 3rd party Nintendo's managed to endear just to the Wii and has developed great titles for them.

EDIT: Upon second thought, I suppose there's the Epic Mickey team but we're already seeing rumors that they might go multiplatform due to the Move so that game's future is uncertain.

I think he's talking about Next Level and Kuju and the like.

Also, Nintendo may not have bought any companies recently, except for that company they bought (Monolith), but they've expanded internally (EAD Tokyo, the single greatest development team in the entire industry).

GoldenPhoenixApril 14, 2010

Quote from: insanolord

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

Iwata has already said that he doesn't like buying companies since you can't buy the talent and that is where the true value in a company is. That is why they prefer to develop strong and healthy relationships through collaboration or publishing deals.


And the evidence of these "strong and healthy relationships" is...?  Seriously, I'm struggling to think of a single 3rd party Nintendo's managed to endear just to the Wii and has developed great titles for them.

EDIT: Upon second thought, I suppose there's the Epic Mickey team but we're already seeing rumors that they might go multiplatform due to the Move so that game's future is uncertain.

I think he's talking about Next Level and Kuju and the like.

Also, Nintendo may not have bought any companies recently, except for that company they bought (Monolith), but they've expanded internally (EAD Tokyo, the single greatest development team in the entire industry).

Internal expansion is sometimes the best way to go because you can maintain and expand on your company's culture.

KDR_11kApril 14, 2010

Besides, developers are abstract entities composed of humans, you can gain good people without buying out other developers.

Mop it upApril 14, 2010

Quote from: Ymeegod

There's that xbla game The Misadventures of P.B. Winterbottom and I think two more or on it's way. 

Let me know if they sell more than MadWorld, then you might have a point.

RE5 actually had pretty good replay value. The main game isn't exactly short--you'll die a lot during the first few times through. Better weapons = quicker playthrough. Mercs is fun, and so is the online Versus. Plus, Capcom just spewed out all that awesome DLC, so there's more replay value.

Also, yes, RE is an established brand.

EasyCureApril 14, 2010

Quote from: Mop

I don't think you understand what I'm asking.

MadWorld has black and white graphics. The only colour in the game is red for the blood.

Are there any games on the XBox 360 or PS3 with black and white graphics?

I'm so sick of people coming in here and blowing a bunch of words out of their ass when they cant get the facts straight!

Madworld also had Yellow :P

PeachylalaApril 15, 2010

Quote from: Halbred

RE5 actually had pretty good replay value. The main game isn't exactly short--you'll die a lot during the first few times through. Better weapons = quicker playthrough. Mercs is fun, and so is the online Versus. Plus, Capcom just spewed out all that awesome DLC, so there's more replay value.

Also, yes, RE is an established brand.

I HATED COMPUTER CONTROLLED CO-OP.

Just saying out loud.

KDR_11kApril 15, 2010

Yeah, forced coop is a bad idea.

mac<censored>April 15, 2010

Hmm, actually I kinda liked the "computer-controlled coop" in RE5...

PeachylalaApril 15, 2010

I did not, at least with Ashley in RE4 she can hide while you blasted people and she didn't waste items.

I would only get RE5 Gold for the PS3 if I know there is someone here who wants to play the game with me.

YmeegodApril 15, 2010

Cling was no different than Treasure and Gamefreak.  They were funded (to some degree) by nintendo. 

They really didn't expand EAD neither, more or less restructured.  R&D teams were merged into EAD teams but they overall number is actually less I think--"One-year % Growth in Number of Employees 0.0 (2009) "  That number hasn't changed--at the high point nintendo employed 5500+, now they are down to 4200+. 

And yeah, buying developers doesn't mean much if they employees don't stay but you can sign contracts with each memeber just like Activision did with IW if anyone is following that lawsuit.

BlackNMild2k1April 15, 2010

But you want the talent to be creative willingly because they feel inspired, not because they are obligated to do something that they really have no desire to do.

That's why talent ends up leaving companies after they get bought out and now all you own is a building, some used/abused IP's and the 2nd string supporting staff.

PeachylalaApril 15, 2010

What made the Goldeneye and Perfect Dark teams leave Rare in the first place?

BlackNMild2k1April 15, 2010

Nintendo fanchises?

The desire to do more than what they were told?
I'm guessing that a few of them thought they had such a success with GE/PD that they could form their own company and get a bigger cut of the profits.... they were right... and they were wrong. Since I have no idea what they are doing now, I'm gonna guess that it has to better than what Rare has turned into over these last 5-7 years.

Dirk TemporoApril 15, 2010

Quote from: KDR_11k

HL1 had TONS of multiplayer

No, actually, it had literally no multiplayer at all. Mods=/=original game. The first Half-Life was about six hours long. If we're talking time it takes to beat, it's only about an hour.

KDR_11kApril 15, 2010

Er, you realize HL1 had a deathmatch multiplayer mode OOTB? it's HL2 that had the deathmatch portion released later.

Mop it upApril 15, 2010

Quote from: EasyCure

Quote from: Mop

I don't think you understand what I'm asking.

MadWorld has black and white graphics. The only colour in the game is red for the blood.

Are there any games on the XBox 360 or PS3 with black and white graphics?

I'm so sick of people coming in here and blowing a bunch of words out of their ass when they cant get the facts straight!

Madworld also had Yellow :P

I'm not even going to pretend that I've played MadWorld.

I will, however, pretend that I don't own it.

I'll pretend that I didn't pay full price for it, and I'll also pretend that I've put the disc in my Wii.

Mop it upApril 15, 2010

I'll pretend that I sympathize with you.

PeachylalaApril 15, 2010

Pretend that MadWorld is like a typical episode of Family Guy. It will keep flashing back to jokes that make no sense until everyone forgets what they were talking about.

Dirk TemporoApril 15, 2010

Quote from: KDR_11k

Er, you realize HL1 had a deathmatch multiplayer mode OOTB?

I did not.

However, notice that nobody ever says "Man remember those good times playing Half-Life Deathmatch"? The game was all about the single-player, and the only multiplayer people ever cared about was Counterstrike.

The fact is, fifteen-twenty years ago, people were paying more money for shorter games. Now we're paying less money for longer games, and we're so spoiled that if something doesn't clock out to twenty hours, we complain about it, despite the fact that most people will drop ~$15 for a two hour movie.

Mop it upApril 15, 2010

Not to mention that if you see a movie with three friends, that's ~$60 for a two-hour movie plus whatever you spend on food (someone always wants snacks, eesh). If you play a videogame with three friends it still cost $50-60.

Nintendo has certainly gotten smaller, because they figured out how to make more money off of games that require less staff, and arguably less effort.

GoldenPhoenixApril 16, 2010

Quote from: NWR_Lindy

Nintendo has certainly gotten smaller, because they figured out how to make more money off of games that require less staff, and arguably less effort.

Any sources for that statement?

KDR_11kApril 16, 2010

Quote from: Dirk

However, notice that nobody ever says "Man remember those good times playing Half-Life Deathmatch"? The game was all about the single-player, and the only multiplayer people ever cared about was Counterstrike.

It was later overshadowed by CS and the other mods but believe me, people played many, MANY hours of HL deathmatch (I was one of them). It may not be the best remembered game but it was heavily played.

Quote from: GoldenPhoenix

Quote from: NWR_Lindy

Nintendo has certainly gotten smaller, because they figured out how to make more money off of games that require less staff, and arguably less effort.

Any sources for that statement?

Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, Wii Fit Plus, Personal Trainer Walking...

GoldenPhoenixApril 16, 2010

Quote from: Halbred

Quote from: GoldenPhoenix

Quote from: NWR_Lindy

Nintendo has certainly gotten smaller, because they figured out how to make more money off of games that require less staff, and arguably less effort.

Any sources for that statement?

Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, Wii Fit Plus, Personal Trainer Walking...

How are all of those sources for Nintendo getting smaller? Nintendo is still releasing more games then they did in the GC or N64 era. Also Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, and Resort were hardly titles that required "Less effort", just because you didn't like them doesn't mean a lot of work wasn't put into them.

I didn't say I don't like them. If you'll recall from my review, I very much enjoyed Sports Resort, and I just bought Wii Fit Plus so I can get back into the Wii Fit groove.

However, in the case of the former, it's hard to consider it as anything but a fancy tech demo, whereas in the case of Wii Fit, you'd hardly require a development team the size of something like Mario Galaxy 2.

I don't know if Nintendo is getting smaller, per say, but I would say that they're definately fragmenting into distinct groups. The Wii Whatever group, the Zelda group, and the Mario group. Remember, they've been farming out Metroid for almost a decade now.

GoldenPhoenixApril 16, 2010

Quote from: Halbred

I didn't say I don't like them. If you'll recall from my review, I very much enjoyed Sports Resort, and I just bought Wii Fit Plus so I can get back into the Wii Fit groove.

However, in the case of the former, it's hard to consider it as anything but a fancy tech demo, whereas in the case of Wii Fit, you'd hardly require a development team the size of something like Mario Galaxy 2.

I don't know if Nintendo is getting smaller, per say, but I would say that they're definately fragmenting into distinct groups. The Wii Whatever group, the Zelda group, and the Mario group. Remember, they've been farming out Metroid for almost a decade now.

I would say Nintendo is doing more projects at once and spreading their resources over more things. Wii Fit probably had a massive budget when it came to hardware and design. The Wii Sports series were not just thrown together but required lots of fine tuning to utilize the Wiimote and in Resort's case, the motion plus. They are polished titles, while they may not need the same kind design and programming team as a Mario Galaxy it doesn't mean they don't have plenty of people working on them.

I don't think it counts as "farming out Metroid" when the studio they're having make it is first-party, and while Team Ninja is making Other M, they're doing it in cooperation with R&D 1.

PeachylalaApril 16, 2010

R&D1 just did the basic design and overall story. The coding is all Team Ninja, minus the jiggle physics.

KDR_11kApril 17, 2010

Honestly I think Sakamoto is more of a threat to Other M than Team Ninja. He's the one who insisted on NES controls despite everybody wanting the nunchuk.

Quote from: KDR_11k

Honestly I think Sakamoto is more of a threat to Other M than Team Ninja. He's the one who insisted on NES controls despite everybody wanting the nunchuk.

Yeah, I think there's a decent chance that the game may have turned out better if it really were just Team Ninja making it without R&D 1.

EasyCureApril 18, 2010

here i thought this thread was about Sega/Madworld..

Quote from: EasyCure

here i thought this thread was about Sega/Madworld..

MadWorld also probably would have turned out better if it were developed by Team Ninja.

EasyCureApril 18, 2010

There ya go. Much better.

PeachylalaApril 18, 2010

Ninja Gaiden Sigma was so much better then MadWorld. =D

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