Topic: Disney+

[Stratos]

On some levels it makes sense, especially for a service like this, but they should still find a way to release it. Maybe allow it to become public domain? Or someone here a while ago mentioned they could add an intro talking about civil rights, racism, and how this was a product of a different time.

[ThePerm]

I haven't seen the movie since 4th grade. And I'm not sure if I even saw the entire movie. Or if I just saw a clip. But from what I understand of it, the time period is ambiguous.

Though I just looked it up and apparently it takes place in the Reconstruction era. So, if people were offended that it portrays people enslaved as happy then it is purely a misinterpretation. I probably watched a different movie in 4th grade.

that isn't to say there isn't some racist stuff in it. There were a few times there was some old looney tunes content released on Amazon that I went to watch. I for sure wouldn't show them to my nephews. Also, the batman serials are hard to watch. Though, on some level they are so over the top racist that it becomes funny through absurdity and disbelief. But reading through the complaints about Songs of the South most were upset he spoke a regional dialect and that the character Uncle Remis isn't an upper class educated elitist. Which to me sounds like an effort of counter propaganda and internal cultural suppression. I haven't seen the movie though, so I can't really say how objectionable it is. That's the problem with not being able to view the product for myself. I can't judge.

I think Disney should declare this movie into public domain because they're never going to make any money off of it ever again. Of course Disney would not do this because they would want to suppress anything that could possibly reflect upon them negatively. This is whether or not the public would vindicate them or not. It isn't worth the bad press. It's like the loose end in a bank robbery.

I've been trying to collect every Disney cartoon(not counting CG movies) starting with Snow White and ending with Princess and the Frog and this one can't be apart of the collection. Because SOTS isn't out on home media. Though movies with live action barely count here. Sometimes collecting is weird too. Like I could have bought Cinderella 2 yesterday and I read the back and the plot sounded so bad. So, I passed it up for now. I'm not sure if I even want sequels in my collection, but I already have most of those. I'm collecting mostly VHS with a few exceptions. Most of the time they're only 50 cents at the thrift store. Yesterday I made the mistake of buying my first duplicate in the collection. I wasn't sure if I had The Hunchback of Notre Dame yet. I did.

[nickmitch]

On some levels it makes sense, especially for a service like this, but they should still find a way to release it. Maybe allow it to become public domain? Or someone here a while ago mentioned they could add an intro talking about civil rights, racism, and how this was a product of a different time.

I think when you bury these kinds of things, people forget why they were offensive and that there was a time when stuff like that was getting made.  WB puts disclaimers on all their old racist cartoons, which I think is the correct approach.

I haven't seen the movie since 4th grade. And I'm not sure if I even saw the entire movie. Or if I just saw a clip. But from what I understand of it, the time period is ambiguous.

Though I just looked it up and apparently it takes place in the Reconstruction era. So, if people were offended that it portrays people enslaved as happy then it is purely a misinterpretation. I probably watched a different movie in 4th grade.

that isn't to say there isn't some racist stuff in it. There were a few times there was some old looney tunes content released on Amazon that I went to watch. I for sure wouldn't show them to my nephews. Also, the batman serials are hard to watch. Though, on some level they are so over the top racist that it becomes funny through absurdity and disbelief. But reading through the complaints about Songs of the South most were upset he spoke a regional dialect and that the character Uncle Remis isn't an upper class educated elitist. Which to me sounds like an effort of counter propaganda and internal cultural suppression. I haven't seen the movie though, so I can't really say how objectionable it is. That's the problem with not being able to view the product for myself. I can't judge.

There's a lot of problems with the film.  The depiction of the Uncle Remus character is just one of them.  The film never clearly establishes a post-emancipation time period, but the book it's based on is meant to be that time frame.  Either way, the film was designed to present life for African Americans on plantations to be happy and generally positive experiences when they were overwhelming not, even during the sharecropping era.  The intent was to soften an unpleasant history.

The other thing about this is that the Br'er Rabbit stories might kind of end up lost to time.  I think a home video was made a while back, but in more of a direct-to-video quality.  I'm not sure what the rights are to the Uncle Remus character, but I wouldn't expect anyone else to try and do them justice seeing as they're kind of tainted.  Could be a missed opportunity for Disney to do that one right.

[Spak-Spang]

I am hoping Disney does the Apple thing, and allow its service to be used despite where your I.P. address says you are, and just uses your address and bank account to verify American citizenship.  Then I would consider this.  The value of this streaming service is really outstanding at the moment.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Disney+ will NOT include Song of the South.  Finally answering that question.

It's version of Dumbo will also have the Jim Crow scene deleted.

That was my favorite part.... I loved Jim Crow..... is that wrong!?

[Spak-Spang]

Edited

[Spak-Spang]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v2exWrsGOc  Question, because I really don't know how this could be that offensive. 

[ejamer]

So I'm not personally offended by that scene and would prefer if it wasn't removed... but I can understand why some wouldn't appreciate (to put it gently) the caricatures and stereotypes being presented, especially if similar stereotypes are considered the only representation available.

In my mind, it's not easy to know the best approach when re-releasing content made from different time periods. I tend to favor releasing "as is" and making efforts to provide context and discussion about how/why societal standards and expectations have changed (as long as the content being released isn't actively harmful, which would have been my take in this instance). I'm usually not in favor of re-editing an existing work to better fit modern opinions unless you are releasing the edited content as a new version.

[Stratos]

Wait, they cut the whole crow scene? I thought they only cut one reference/joke. That scene was the best part of the film. I loved them as a kid and thought they were cool. Without them the film would have probably been overwhelmingly sad for little me. They were the key to showing Dumbo he had a talent and motivated him to try and use it.

I may be a white dude who is unable to relate with the problem, but I don't think caricatures are inherently bad. When you sit down and have a cartoon caricature portrait done of yourself, they pick out a prominent feature about you and exaggerate that feature. I think it is more how you use those caricatures that is a problem. And I'm not seeing any malicious reasons for the crows. They come in and provide a fun song, and motivate the main character to grow and try something new because they can see what other people made fun of is actually his capacity to be more than any elephant before or after.

If anything, I would be worried that people are attempting to suppress the prominent features of minorities when we should be celebrating those differences. Its like the whole "I don't see a white or black person, I see you" where the people end up denying an intrinsic part of a person.

[Adrock]

I may be a white dude who is unable to relate with the problem, but I don't think caricatures are inherently bad. When you sit down and have a cartoon caricature portrait done of yourself, they pick out a prominent feature about you and exaggerate that feature. I think it is more how you use those caricatures that is a problem. And I'm not seeing any malicious reasons for the crows. They come in and provide a fun song, and motivate the main character to grow and try something new because they can see what other people made fun of is actually his capacity to be more than any elephant before or after.

The best response I can come up with here is that something/someone doesn’t need to have malicious intentions to be offensive. This is a subtle distinction but an important one. It’s kind of like when someone tries to defend something racist they said by saying, “I’m not racist.” Well, saying they’re not racist doesn’t make them not racist. People don’t care whether someone thinks in their heart that they aren’t racist. People care (or at least should care) about the racist thing that person said or did. The intention doesn’t have to match the act.

That said, it’s probably better that Disney just cut the scene entirely even if the movie feels even more dour because of it. Disney may not have intended to offend. Fine. What’s done is done. It can’t erase the past, but it’s willing to admit it’s problematic enough to leave it in the past. I can’t blame Disney for deciding this isn’t a hill it’s willing to die on.

[Spak-Spang]

I may be a white dude who is unable to relate with the problem, but I don't think caricatures are inherently bad. When you sit down and have a cartoon caricature portrait done of yourself, they pick out a prominent feature about you and exaggerate that feature. I think it is more how you use those caricatures that is a problem. And I'm not seeing any malicious reasons for the crows. They come in and provide a fun song, and motivate the main character to grow and try something new because they can see what other people made fun of is actually his capacity to be more than any elephant before or after.

The best response I can come up with here is that something/someone doesn’t need to have malicious intentions to be offensive. This is a subtle distinction but an important one. It’s kind of like when someone tries to defend something racist they said by saying, “I’m not racist.” Well, saying they’re not racist doesn’t make them not racist. People don’t care whether someone thinks in their heart that they aren’t racist. People care (or at least should care) about the racist thing that person said or did. The intention doesn’t have to match the act.

That said, it’s probably better that Disney just cut the scene entirely even if the movie feels even more dour because of it. Disney may not have intended to offend. Fine. What’s done is done. It can’t erase the past, but it’s willing to admit it’s problematic enough to leave it in the past. I can’t blame Disney for deciding this isn’t a hill it’s willing to die on.

This is true.  You can definitely tell within the dialect of the Crows and the words they sing who they represent and how the creators may be racist.  I don't know how the African American community feels about the crows, but in this time I can see being careful.  That said, I know many Mexican-Americans that were upset when Cartoon Network decided never to air anymore Speedy Gonzales cartoons.  Those were definitely racist stereotypes in that cartoon, but the community still loved Speedy himself and having some representation in a comic. 

I get that we need to be careful and the line is hard to draw.  So if Disney wants to do this they can and should.  I wonder if this will hurt the flow of the movie over all.

[ejamer]

I still dislike the expurgation, where large corporations pick and choose which portions of existing works remain marketable based on what they feel will elicit the least reaction from the public, rather than retiring an entire work if it's deemed problematic or keeping dated content "as is" and discussing why some parts are recognized as a problem today.

But discussing problems like racism can often be awkward and difficult, and it would be impossible to mandate that such a discussion is heard with media like this. And retiring a whole work just isn't as profitable...

[BlackNMild2k1]

Looks like Disney+ is going to be offered up at 6.99mo or $70 for the whole year
but they also have a bundle package:

Disney+, ESPN+, and Ad supported Hulu for $12.99mo


I currently have (ad)Hulu for $1mo thru Sep 2019, and honestly... I can't stand the black screens that come up for 60-90 where ads are supposed to play.
if they throw a deal for no-ad Hulu, and if someone can confirm I can stream NBA games on ESPN+, then I would probably take the bundle deal, but as of now, solo D+ for me (1yr paid upfront)

[ShyGuy]

Disney isn't messing around. They will probably make more money on this than their movies.

[ejamer]

Still interested, but not holding my breath in Canada.

We still don't even have Hulu available, and currently announced plans/pricing are only for US. I'm sure Disney is planning something for other countries... but it's unlikely to be as good a deal and maybe won't even release at the same time.

Guess I'll just have to wait and see.

[NWR_insanolord]

I'd jump on a bundle that included ad-free Hulu, since I already subscribe to that and ESPN+ so it'd get me Disney+ for basically nothing. I can't go back to ads, though.

[Shorty McNostril]

I'll be very surprised if this launched in Australia any time soon.  I'd never heard of Hulu until recently.  It'd damn well better be out by the time the first D+ Marvel project arrives or I'll be forced to look elsewhere for it.

[Plugabugz]

I'll be very surprised if this launched in Australia any time soon.  I'd never heard of Hulu until recently.  It'd damn well better be out by the time the first D+ Marvel project arrives or I'll be forced to look elsewhere for it.

Seeing as Hulu announced an international launch in 2011, don't hold your breath.

[nickmitch]

I'm also in the ad-free Hulu boat, but I also started doing live TV through them.  So, I would need to see yet another package deal.  :^/  I could just switch who I go to for live TV, but that seems like a hassle.  I hope there's plans for the different Hulu versions, and this isn't an oversight.

[pokepal148]

The real win for all of this is W.I.T.C.H's second season being available for streaming.

I'll get to that season in more detail when I get to it in the stupid thread I'm doing but around the 10th episode W.I.T.C.H's second season's overall plot becomes absolutely absurd. It's to the point where each episode has at least two plot twists that change how the rest of the season is going to play out while at the same time they drop hints left and right forshadowing future plot twists for future episodes (and unlike other Weismann shows W.I.T.C.H. has an ending that all of this is building towards.) and the first 9 or so episodes were basically building up to that madness. It's a remarkable accomplishment in terms of writing for TV but it made the show ill-suited to a weekly broadcast format because if you miss more than one episode in a row you're basically fucked. Disney+ will hopefully finally give ita home more fitting for that season's format.

[Spak-Spang]

Does anyone know if Hulu works well through VPNs or if Hulu/Disney will go the Apple direction and just let your Credit Card determine your location.  I really want to get Disney+ but I am in S. Korea.  Everything I have seen just seems to scream that Disney is going to make a service that is worth supporting and watching.

[nickmitch]

A quick google suggests that Hulu blocks VPN IPs, but some services can get around it.  You may have to shop around.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Disney outlines their international rollout for D+
https://deadline.com/2019/08/disney-international-launches-1202671080/

[ejamer]

Disney outlines their international rollout for D+
https://deadline.com/2019/08/disney-international-launches-1202671080/

Price and timing are nice surprises for Canadians.

Content remains to be seen - sometimes there are restrictions or limitations put in place here due to licensing or CRTC (similar to US FCC) requirements. For example, Netflix selection in Canada is quite different; mostly we get less options, but there is also some content here that isn't available (or at least, not yet) in the US.

Still, since Disney will own all of the content they plan to show on D+ you have to figure that it'll be very similar. Glad I bought a Roku device recently, as it seems unlikely they'll roll out a Wii U app (which is what we have been using for most of our streaming needs right now).

[Adrock]

The Mandalorian trailer

For BlackNMild2k1: https://youtu.be/aOC8E8z_ifw