Topic: Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker

[ThePerm]

Rian Johnson left an abysmal launching point with The Last Jedi.

How would you right the course?

I'd make Luke come back. He learned to teleport. He'll also be wearing all white like Gandalf did when Gandalf came back. Finn and Poe will do something during this movie.

Also, they should not have cut this scene from The Last Jedi

[ThePerm]

[nickmitch]

WOW! That was a deleted scene?!  That is frustrating considering how I've felt about, and have seen others react to, Finn's character arc.

[UncleBob]

That was actually a pretty cool scene.

I want to see Poe do some serious redemption.  The guy has done pretty much nothing but screw up and get people killed.  Either get rid of him or make him something useful.

[Stratos]

I have lots of thoughts about the sequel trilogy and episode 9, but really I've burned out of Star Wars in general. Disney killed the joy and wonder for me. I wasn't a huge fan of 7, it was alright, but I waited until Jan/Feb to watch it because I had no one to go with earlier. By then they 'hype' had me expecting a much better product that what we got. It wasn't horrible, but I didn't walk out the theater wowed like some others were. 8 was a hot mess, only movie ever where the whole group of us who went walked out speechless. Completely speechless. I asked how my buddy felt and he said he wasn't sure, and I concurred.

The only new film I have truly enjoyed was Rogue One.

Also, that deleted scene was good. Would have been great to keep as one of my bigger complaints was how little stuff of substance Finn was doing in the film.

I am purposely holding low expectations, and don't feel a need to go see it right away. I think BnM said it best in another thread where Marvel is this generation's Star Wars. Hopefully Lucasfilm learns some lessons from Marvel and future post-Sequel Trilogy products turn out better by actually having a bigger game plan for their product instead of just letting a director make up whatever pops into his head.

Dave Filoni is the closest thing Lucasfilm has to Kevin Feige, I'd give executive control to him as his work on Clone Wars and Rebels is some of the best stuff to come out of Star Wars in a good while.

[Stratos]

That was actually a pretty cool scene.

I want to see Poe do some serious redemption.  The guy has done pretty much nothing but screw up and get people killed.  Either get rid of him or make him something useful.

That isn't Poe's fault. That was the poor decision making of leadership. Holdo was acting more like an Imperial commander than anyone on the First Order side was. Demand blind trust without waver or questioning? That's sounding like a totalitarian dictator. They are a loosely formed coalition of resistance ('rebel') fighters. They are accountable to each other. Her refusal to share ANYTHING was a huge error in leadership and as the situation got more dire it was understandable people were growing more desperate.

If they went the traitor route it could have made some sense to hide details from people like Poe. Make it that someone was tracking them and they needed to find out who. Finn and Rose try to find the mole and Finn is framed for being a spy. Makes sense as he just defected from the FO. Now Rose must find the real mole and exonerate Finn so save them.

Also, Holdo and Leia's plan was awful. Scanners could have easily picked them up and there was only one planet nearby. It was doomed to go the way it did from the start.

[UncleBob]

Poe is a nobody and Holdo/Leia sure do not owe him any kind of explanation - which is doubled down after the **** he pulled at the beginning of the movie.  He should have been throw in the brig (out the airlock) after that for killing half the remaining resistance.

[lolmonade]

Rian Johnson left an abysmal launching point with The Last Jedi.

How would you right the course?

I would get Rian Johnson to direct episode IX and keep J.J. Abrams in a galaxy far, far away from Star Wars properties.

[pokepal148]

Holdo was a pointless character and TLJ would have been a better movie if Admiral Ackbar took her role in TLJ.

I'm saying that as someone who liked The Last Jedi.

[Spak-Spang]

The Marvel movies work in ways Star Wars can't.  The Star Wars films are one film series in one universe.  They have themes and an overall story, but the world isn't really the highlight of the series it is the characters and overall pull and move towards the progression of the series.  With each movie we are shaping the world and moving it forward.

Marvel is a single universe with tons of characters.  But those characters all have different themes and directions.  Antman is about family and redemption.  He is a man that is trying to do right for his family and learn to be apart of a new family.  It is balancing past sins while trying to make right for the people you love now.  You can easily make a trilogy out of that, which they will. 

In fact, each of the film series are individual trilogies that just happen to be in a shared universe.  That is why it can support over 20 films in the franchise.  Star Wars doesn't really have that deep pool of characters and themes to draw upon.  And the newest trilogy proves that.  I have no idea what the themes of the sequel trilogy are for character, overall plot and such.  Maybe you don't have to be special to be special? 

The Iron Man trilogy has a theme of midlife crisis and facing your legacy and your mistakes head one.  Among other themes.

Captain America is about standing for your values in a world that does not accept or believe in your values anymore.  All 3 of his films have elements of this theme, and how it takes its toll breaking Steve Rogers. 

Guardians of the Galaxy is about finding yourself and your identity mixed with family identity and brokenness.

These are all strong themes that can carry film series that just happen to share a universe.  Marvel is not this generation's Star Wars.  Marvel is something grander and bigger and something Star Wars was never, and could never be.

[Spak-Spang]

Holdo was a pointless character and TLJ would have been a better movie if Admiral Ackbar took her role in TLJ.

I'm saying that as someone who liked The Last Jedi.

Storytelling 101:  Don't add new characters for the sake of adding a character.  Admiral Ackbar could have played her role with literally no change, and in fact it would have possibly made his reluctance to share the plan make more sense, because he fell into an imperial trap once before and almost lost everything. 

[pokepal148]

It would also have been a much more meaningful sacrifice with the hyperspace ramming thing because Ackbar is a fairly iconic character in the series, to the point that some of the Naysayers would probably have been willing to accept the wrecking ball that scene took to the series's continuity since honestly that's the death that he deserved, going out in a blaze of glory and taking out an entire Imperial First Order fleet with him.

I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason that didn't happen is because some Disney exec didn't like the really unfortunate implications that came with someone with the name "Ackbar" making a kamikaze attack, which led to Holdo being created.

Also just kill Leia off, ffs. There is no way trying to shoehorn her into episode 9 with unused footage from episode 7 or whatever won't be awkward as hell and you already said you won't CGI her so get rid of her.

[nickmitch]

Glad you mentioned that, Pokepal, because it's exactly what I was thinking.

[ThePerm]

I'd have killed her off on Episode VIII.  They had plenty of opportunities.

The thing at the beginning of the movie with Poe that made him useless for the rest of the movie. That shouldn't have happened.  His arch should have been totally different. His arch should have been him doing something meaningful that makes the later part of the movie better.

Get rid of Holdo and Rose. Pair Finn and Poe. Or introduce Holdo and Rose and give them some interesting C plot. Just don't have them argue the entire movie or go on geese chases. They should have realized that was pointless cinema and rewrote the script.

And "I don't have gas for my car and the killer is after me" is for horror movies

[Stratos]

It would also have been a much more meaningful sacrifice with the hyperspace ramming thing because Ackbar is a fairly iconic character in the series, to the point that some of the Naysayers would probably have been willing to accept the wrecking ball that scene took to the series's continuity since honestly that's the death that he deserved, going out in a blaze of glory and taking out an entire Imperial First Order fleet with him.

I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason that didn't happen is because some Disney exec didn't like the really unfortunate implications that came with someone with the name "Ackbar" making a kamikaze attack, which led to Holdo being created.

Also just kill Leia off, ffs. There is no way trying to shoehorn her into episode 9 with unused footage from episode 7 or whatever won't be awkward as hell and you already said you won't CGI her so get rid of her.

The sad thing is that they probably did intend to give that role to Akbar, but the actor who played him in 6 and 7 passed away so the wrote him out unceremoniously. It should have been Akbar, and if they really wanted to write him out, Leia should have been in that spot. Luke could have force-miraged his way to the bridge and had a meaningful conversation with Leia, maybe calling back to the End of Empire when Luke called out to Leia. Have her call to him, he appears and talks to her, she tells him it is the only way to to please help the resistance, he is their only hope. He could reassure her that he will and stay with her via the force through the explosion. Could have been a lovely send-off to her, and give Luke additional personal motivation to get back into the fight.

[Spak-Spang]

It would also have been a much more meaningful sacrifice with the hyperspace ramming thing because Ackbar is a fairly iconic character in the series, to the point that some of the Naysayers would probably have been willing to accept the wrecking ball that scene took to the series's continuity since honestly that's the death that he deserved, going out in a blaze of glory and taking out an entire Imperial First Order fleet with him.

I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason that didn't happen is because some Disney exec didn't like the really unfortunate implications that came with someone with the name "Ackbar" making a kamikaze attack, which led to Holdo being created.

Also just kill Leia off, ffs. There is no way trying to shoehorn her into episode 9 with unused footage from episode 7 or whatever won't be awkward as hell and you already said you won't CGI her so get rid of her.

The sad thing is that they probably did intend to give that role to Akbar, but the actor who played him in 6 and 7 passed away so the wrote him out unceremoniously. It should have been Akbar, and if they really wanted to write him out, Leia should have been in that spot. Luke could have force-miraged his way to the bridge and had a meaningful conversation with Leia, maybe calling back to the End of Empire when Luke called out to Leia. Have her call to him, he appears and talks to her, she tells him it is the only way to to please help the resistance, he is their only hope. He could reassure her that he will and stay with her via the force through the explosion. Could have been a lovely send-off to her, and give Luke additional personal motivation to get back into the fight.

That would make the movie much better, and give Luke more personality.  Explaining that Luke wasn't hiding from everyone but trusted Leia with his situation.  Then have Luke stay with Leia until the end would be pretty cool.  However, the problem is that would take the surprise ending away from the movie away.  Which honestly, would have been OK, but would people still want Luke to be involved for real in that last battle.

[BranDonk Kong]

Episode IX is going to start with Rey saying "Luke, stop daydreaming and take your lightsaber!" Anything less than this will be a failure.

[broodwars]

Poe is a nobody and Holdo/Leia sure do not owe him any kind of explanation - which is doubled down after the **** he pulled at the beginning of the movie.  He should have been throw in the brig (out the airlock) after that for killing half the remaining resistance.

From what I understand, "that **** he pulled at the beginning of the movie" was the only reason the rest of the movie could even happen because Poe took out the Dreadnaught that would have caught up to the heroes and gunned them down. Because he did that, the First Order had to spend the rest of the movie chasing the heroes, which is what led to Holdo & Leia's plan even being feasible.

From everything I've heard about The Last Jedi, Poe is one of the few characters who consistently acts logically the entire movie.

[UncleBob]

Wait... "heard about"?

[pokepal148]

Poe's only mission was to take out the Dreadnought's cannons. That's it. Without the cannons that Dreadnought is pretty useless but Poe thought ordering an attack from the Resistance bomber fleet to destroy it completely was a good idea and so the resistance no longer has bomber fleet.

Also, Broodwars, you should maybe try watching the movie you're hitching about. That might help.

[BeautifulShy]

Poe's only mission was to take out the Dreadnought's cannons. That's it. Without the cannons that Dreadnought is pretty useless but Poe thought ordering an attack from the Resistance bomber fleet to destroy it completely was a good idea and so the resistance no longer has bomber fleet.

Also, Broodwars, you should maybe try watching the movie you're hitching about. That might help.

To tie in with what pokepal said the last bomber that was alive was Roses sister and she died doing that bombing run.  Leia pretty much commanded Poe to not engage any futher with the whole dreadnaught because of the cost of life it would cause and she was right. You don't want heroes when your resistance force is so little and dwindling.   Flash forward to the end of the movie Finn is charging down the battering ram cannon and is acting as wreckless as Poe was at the start of the movie and Poe tells him to stand down and Finn keeps going and Rose has to stop him.  These type of things tie in with each other in the themes.

[nickmitch]

But Rose's sister died because her bomb dropper thing got stuck.  That's not really Poe's fault.

[ThePerm]

Episode IX is going to start with Rey saying "Luke, stop daydreaming and take your lightsaber!" Anything less than this will be a failure.

That would be epic. Would love.

Then they can do an Episode IX part 2

[UncleBob]

But Rose's sister died because her bomb dropper thing got stuck.  That's not really Poe's fault.

Rose's sister died because Poe disobeyed a direct order from his commander.  Period.

[nickmitch]

Eh. Could've gone either way.