Topic: Atari VCS, Amico, Micro Consoles

[MASB]

Speaking of Atari in general guess who is making a video game hotel in Phoenix.  Yep Atari. Construction is supposed to begin mid 2020.   No idea if it is going to be in downtown Phoenix or someplace else but this is a thing that is happening. 
https://www.azfamily.com/news/new-atari-video-game-themed-hotel-coming-to-phoenix/article_d65fc42a-415d-11ea-9c57-f33d49f1a7bc.html

We need you to write up a full review of the place when you stay there after its grand opening! If a gaming hotel is anything like modern console gaming, you'll be able to get rooms for half price a few weeks after the Atari Hotel opens.

[UncleBob]

I'm really disappointed with the amico.  Like, it's been delayed - that's neither surprising nor deal breaking - but...

What should be re-release hype where we're looking at game footage and sizzle reels has come down to constant bickering and squabbles between various mediocre small youtubers, other various mediocre small youtubers, and Tommy Tallarico himself.

I just wanna play fun games, not get invested in pissy youtube drama.

There's two main amico subreddits, one is virtually a mouthpiece for corporate approved messaging and the other is just where everyone shits on everything amico or Tommy Tallarico related.

There's really no where to stay tuned for game-only news without the editorialized bullshit.

*sigh*

For a family-friendly console that's supposed to harken back to the golden days of gaming, it sure seems lost in modern garbage.

[ThePerm]

one of the problems is youtubers immediate dismissal of all systems not made by Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft.

There could be decent micro-consoles. People tend to focus on how low they predict sales to be  more than whether the product is something fun and worthwhile.

Like the Ouya. It didn't last long, but: it was a kickstarter success, it got me into game programming, and it wasn't vaporware.

As bad as Ouya was at least it wasn't an Infinium Phantom

And eventually maybe one day I'll release the Br00ha

Amico looks like a whole lot of fun.

[UncleBob]

>one of the problems is youtubers immediate dismissal of all systems not made by Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft.

eh.  Every single system ever is met by doom and gloom by some segment of the online population.  Even those made by the big three.

The difference is, you don't see Bowser or Furukawa rolling around, swinging mud at their online "haters".  Because doing so only gives them a platform and lets then drive the narrative.

Look at how much hate and derision the Wii got when they unveiled it... yet, it was barely acknowledged by Nintendo.

Look at the initial reactions to the XBone presentation... even when Microsoft did acknowledge the negative press, they didn't attack the people themselves, but they addressed the criticisms and even made positive changes based on those criticisms.

Now, with the Amico, when people bring up concerns like input lag on the controller, the conversation shifts from that to how Tommy has haters who are out to destroy his company because they're a bunch of racists who send his family death threats and Nintendo allows rape and child porn on their systems.

And, man, I just wanna play games.  I don't even care if there's a bit of lag.  ****, I own ROB.... you wanna talk input lag.  Is it playable?  Are the games fun?  Show me the games are fun.  That's all I need to know.

[ThePerm]

Creators should really think twice before they engage with the general public. 90% of the time it isn't a great idea.

Denis Dyack was the first time I remember a public person really succumbing to this. Now, it is common place, and affects people much more famous than Dyack. Social media is a weird thing. Notable people get the most attention, but being a famous person sucks because unlike the mobs of anonymous people famous people get ruined over the smallest controversy. Unless you're a Teflon Don type.

[Kairon]

I'm still watching the occasional Amico YouTube video, I follow some channels who I guess would be classified as the "Tommy Shills" if I bothered to learn more about the drama, but I guess I shouldn't be TOO surprised by the flamewars in a teacup brewing up. The Amico has simply suffered from being announced so long ago and not coming out for so long. In that time skepticism easily flares up into dislike and antagonism, plus just negative-energy antagonism for internet clicks and views.

The Amico, just needs to come out. They've had two years of Tommy Talking which is like, ok, you're scrappy and don't have giant marketing budgets, but that's old now. This thing just needs to either be real or not. And there are actually some games on it I'm positively curious about, but they don't even have updated gameplay footage for almost all of them.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming that they're still scrambling behind the scenes to get it all ready because they're a tiny player, and once they finally get their marketing up and running THEN we'll see some actual polish, but right now it's just the same 'ol same 'ol and it's proponents are really just "keeping the faith".

[Kairon]

In contrast to the Amico's long awkward stay in the post light, PlayDate is actually coming out next month and looks very, very real! They've said little, and didn't try to fill the silence with talking and promises, so there's not as much exhaustion of the topic.

I admit it looks like a fun tech toy. If I have spare discretionary funs I might get one... though I did finally manage to talk myself out of getting that snap-on dock-charger accessory for it after two days of asking myself "will this REALLY make me happy or am I just being excessively consumeristic yet again?"

[Adrock]

You absolutely need the dock because it doubles as a pen holder. Jebus, Kairon, it’s as if you have no concept of true value.

If the dock is like $20, I can probably talk myself into it. Either way, I’m ready for the Playdate. It’s like buying an entire console for extended WarioWare games.

[Kairon]

You absolutely need the dock because it doubles as a pen holder. Jebus, Kairon, it’s as if you have no concept of true value.

I apologize for my excessive wrongness 

[Kairon]

Recently got the thinking that the Amico might run into a very similar pricing/profitability problem the Wii U had: the controllers are too expensive. I imagine that the Wii U faced problems reducing its price due partly to the tech that was mandatory for its unique controller proposition. Likewise, with the screened, wireless controllers of the Amico, AND with TWO of them included in the system, I imagine they don't have much price flexibility to push it lower. If Amico can't find a large enough makret for whatever strategy they have at $249.99 I wonder if they'll be able to find a market at all due to this.

[Kairon]

Ah-ha! The Intellivision developer site for the Amico was available without any login credentials for long enough that details about a couple more in-depth technical aspects of the system, like actual hardware specs or how aspects of the controller can be disabled to conserve battery life, have been exposed to the wild of the internet: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/06/what-the-hecks-an-intellivision-amico-consoles-leaky-dev-portal-offers-hints/

[UncleBob]

Yeah.  And Tommy immediately went on the attack, threatening legal action.

I'd say I'm about to cash out my $100 preorder.

[Kairon]

Yeah.  And Tommy immediately went on the attack, threatening legal action.

I'd say I'm about to cash out my $100 preorder.

Tommy Tallarico going ballistic on twitter was just additional self-inflicted wounds.

Amico really at this point needs to "put up or shut up". I don't have a pre-order yet, but I will actually consider pre-ordering this fall if this thing actually starts to shape up and look like it'll have a real, honest-to-god, competent launch. Some of the pack-in games already have my curiosity, they just need to deliver the actual things they said they would.

On the other hand, getting a better idea of the hardware internals of the machine makes me think that the internals of the machine aren't horrendously expensive after all, so they might actually have more space than I thought for profit in whatever business plan they're running.

Edit: Got around to watching some videos that analyzed the big leaks and some other amino stuff yesterday and I'd definitely way more concerned about the amino now. As a concept it was already very very niche and having to prove that a market was there that no one believes exists, but now I'm worried about other things entirely, like whether they might have run afoul of SEC rules when raising funding. To be clear I think the Amico has definitely shown a lot more than the vaporware consoles of the 90's and early 2000's, but there is a real chance this thing becomes like the Phantom or something like that ilk.

[Kairon]

NintendoLife did an interview with Tommy Tallarico specifically to follow up on the criticism that's brewed up after the developer site leak and consequent Ars Technica article. It sounds like he's had a chance to craft a much better message now and really offer a counter-narrative to the criticism that was sort of being left unanswered.

In fact, this might be the most encouraging thing I've seen in a long time by way of presenting the Amico. (I admit though that's really not saying much. However this is at least written out in text easier to digest than verbal responses on some youtube video, it contains a lot of important information about the Amico and the company themselves in one place, AND he actually goes into specifics!

The most important tidbits I feel he's elaborated on or revealed here include:

- Talking extensively about how they work with developers (Basically, everything on Amico will be 1st Party with Intellivision as the publisher and willing to pay indie devs upfront for the work (compare: Epic Store?))
- Pointing out clearly explained inaccuracies in previous criticisms, but steering clear and not getting bogged down in less useful tech specs talk
- Stating that the final hardware is completed and has passed compliance tests
- Going into more detail about the lag in updating the controller screen on one debug unit's firmware version.
- Stating on what terms they worked with J Allard
- Clarifying how they're not a crowdfunded platform
- Claiming 100,000 preorders and purchase orders already and having to turn down Costco and Target because of hardware shortages
- Clear statement of $20 million in funds (at the start? in the bank right now? That's not clear, but what is clear is that they have funding, just not infinite amounts of it)
- Talking about how Amico differentiates from a Switch, and also from Mobile, and some scenarios it is uniquely designed for
- Going into specifics about the substantial features and work they fund and put into ports like Finnigan Fox or Rigid Force Redux

It sounds like with the orders they have they're thoroughly convinced the players are there, they just are running into (understandably) difficult headwinds in building the final physical units they'd actually need to make launch. The final hardware is approved and tested, the launch software is also probably near-final (I think I learned that from some other place on the internet he was talking about), but they just need to build the darn things and at scale.

[Order.RSS]

NintendoLife did an interview with Tommy Tallarico specifically to follow up on the criticism that's brewed up after the developer site leak and consequent Ars Technica article. It sounds like he's had a chance to craft a much better message now and really offer a counter-narrative to the criticism that was sort of being left unanswered.

In fact, this might be the most encouraging thing I've seen in a long time by way of presenting the Amico. (I admit though that's really not saying much. However this is at least written out in text easier to digest than verbal responses on some youtube video, it contains a lot of important information about the Amico and the company themselves in one place, AND he actually goes into specifics!

Not super informed on this whole theoretical console, but reading that interview I'm not getting the same vibe at all. For something which was meant to release in April, and is currently tentatively slated for October, there's an absolute dearth of footage proving this thing truly works.
Their E3 video had a lot of fullscreen footage of games, but it's unclear if those are running on actual hardware, or are PC builds. Nothing has a release date, no studios are credited, and when their CEO says they're paying their devs fairly I guess we'll just have to take his word for it?
This interview mentions NintendoLife have seen the console in action, but we aren't shown that evidence.

It's deeply worrying a single ArsTechnica article can dominate half this interview. I won't even touch the whole fake journalism adjacent accusations ("make us look bad", "spreading misinformation to make us fail") which is a massive red flag by itself. None of this would have happened if Intellivision were doing a better job at marketing and crafting a narrative.
It's truly bizarre how "here's our console aimed at families with kids below middle school age, without predatory monetization" is so hard for them to communicate.

They clearly had no press kit ready stamped "break seal in case of leaks", they squandered their highest profile showcase (E3) to date on a pitch video you might see on a Kickstarter, and their CEO is (by own admission) prone to gaffes on Twitter. Why is he in charge of messaging and marketing, then? The Ouya had a more coherent message.

Why do we only get these partial specifications (for a product which was planned to already be out) after someone reports on Intellivision's internal documents, and are we then told these internal documents were wrong? Does Intellivision just keep a backlog of outdated documents up for its developer partners? Do they not maintain their dev portal? It paints a sloppy picture, which could easily be rectified with "here are our current guidelines" instead of issuing baseless legal threats.
By going into the weeds addressing every single point in the ArsTechnica article they're basically going on the defensive, turning this into a he-said-she-said situation. You won't win that when your company has not produced anything, while the other is a 20+ year running successful operation with respected reporters.

The weirdest thing is, I do think there could be a market for this product, but none of that market is reading tech and gaming websites. Maybe they are out there trying to reach the mom-bloggers, home shopping networks, and Nuclear Middle-Class Family Quarterly Magazine, and we're just not seeing it?
A lot of their games look less interesting to me than 2012 iPhone games, but I'm sure there's a "quick round before I drive you to soccer practice" crowd for this. Why waste so much time on rumors/reports/leaks so far outside of where your marketing needs to be? You don't see Nintendo acknowledging this type of reporting ever.

Amico really at this point needs to "put up or shut up".

Think you hit the nail on the head here. And all we're seeing right now is more talk. I'm oddly fascinated by this whole saga so will look into it more. Not interested in the product at all, but I mean, it's not meant for people like me anyway.

[Kairon]

A lot of what you say is very true. The reason the NintendoLife interview stands out for someone who's been keeping semi-up-to-date on this is because the bar has essentially been set SO low by the lack-of-coherent-marketing they've had for the past two years. It's hyperbole to say that they've had a $0 marketting budget so far, but only technically... And yes, Tommy Tallarico can talk, but if they want to continue doing things publicly they really need to get a professional in front of the camera.

I think the Amico is far beyond past things we've seen from vaporware consoles, there are actual accounts and recent public events where prototypes have been played, and even some footage I believe. HOWEVER for some reason they're not publicizing this, and the only people trumpeting and talking about these hands-on experiences are their diehard community members.

Yes, they're on the defensive in that interview, which means that they're not fully in control of the message, but their default until now has been to have NO message essentially. The defensiveness is great not so much because that's what they wanted to do, but because it's dragging them out into the spotlight a little and forcing them to divulge some stuff that, really, they oughta have been talking about anyways.

I'm not about to preorder one of these just yet. (There's an extreme dearth of specifics about what will happen at Launch, which is just a non-starter for me.) However, like you, I find this whole saga fascinating.

[Order.RSS]

I think the Amico is far beyond past things we've seen from vaporware consoles, there are actual accounts and recent public events where prototypes have been played, and even some footage I believe. HOWEVER for some reason they're not publicizing this, and the only people trumpeting and talking about these hands-on experiences are their diehard community members.

Yeah, I do think Amiico will eventually launch, and it will probably be a functional gaming console. They might miss another launch date along the way, but it'll probably release. Looking on Youtube they've shown a lot of games intended to show up on it.

I didn't realize they just had no coherent messaging before, so in that regard this interview is quite an improvement lol. But like you say, when the bar is on the floor it's hard to hit your head against it.

[ThePerm]

The internet is going all crazy over the Valve Steam Deck, and all I can think of is meh.

[Kairon]

The internet is going all crazy over the Valve Steam Deck, and all I can think of is meh.

The steamdeck looks like a great piece of tech honestly. So have other handheld pcs in its niche product category too actually, like the GPDWin or Aya Neo. And with Valve's size and ability to make money on the valve ecosystem and the choice to have a low storage 64GB SKU the price is starting to get close enough to bring up comparisons to Nintendo and console instead of full-priced laptops. (Though the much more expensive SKUs are the true full experience, and you have to buy a dock separately, so the more appropriate comparison is against the Switch Lite.)

I think it looks pretty neat but the biggest question is how much of a mass market product it's going to be. It sounds like reservations are already stretching into 2022 so I don't think they're planning to manufacture huge quantities of it and right now I'd guess it's probably going to be pretty niche when it first arrives purely due to unit quantities available. That right now seems to be the biggest limit on it. That and a lack of an audience rallying "killer app" to market it with (Half-Life 3?).

I think the more interesting thing about it is it offers either a comparison or a ceiling to a future Switch 2, both in price and performance. My take right now is that an eventual Switch 2 from Nintendo will be slightly under the raw performance of this Steam Deck, or match it, but due to being a closed system will be able to look more optimized in actual outcomes. And Nintendo will also probably have to be aware of that when pricing a Switch 2.

[Kairon]

A recent youtube video from Intellision themselves showing an office party and some prototypes and demos going on ended on a segment where they were talking about cornhole, which is one of their pack-in titles. (Cornhole is also one of the three main Amico games I'm actually interested in.) Putting aside the question of whether it's going to be a fun way to play the game or not, the fact that they're still tinkering and considering up-ending the tea table on one of their launch pack-in games at this stage gives me pause. Motion controls in videogames are a decade and a half old by now, demonstrated by plenty of examples not just from Nintendo but devs at every level of the industry, even with limited accelerometer performance. It would have been more encouraging to see them more locked in to a vision for this simple game concept at this point.

Also it strongly suggests that Cornhole is being developed internally, and I wonder if that's part of the situation. I wonder if they might be closer to a final product if only they'd found some external indie dev who has experience doing motion controls and having them do this game for them.

It also reminded me that while the content of these games have been approved by official ratngs boards, the actual gameplay underpinning that content could definitely still be in flux and not finished. I wonder just how much crunch they've got ahead of them for some of these games...

UPDATE: Apparently the game isn't being completely redone, they claim this is more of a late stage controls experiment in order to find alternative control methods that play better than what they currently have? And that the game is being developed externally in Germany... hmmm Well, not quite as dramatic then, but still worrisome that they haven't nailed down yet exactly what they want, but with game development it's true that sometimes stuff doesn't come together until very late. (Additional Update: Some information in an interview with Intellivision's CFO/COO seems to contradict this interpretation of events, so maybe this is just a really confusing situation to try to nail down with certainty)

Still, I'll be VERY disappointed with this game if it isn't Wii Sports quality out of the box. I want it to be just pick-up-and-play and not have any weird bowling/golf styles power bars or aiming that isn't motion controlled, I want it to "just work" like Wii Sports felt back in 2006.

[Kairon]

Playdate preorders go live July 29! I've read some fun things, but this is probably staying on my list of "fun toys to buy if I win a small lottery or something."

[Adrock]

Steam Deck is kind of neat-o. I'll stick with consoles though.

I'm going to make a new thread for the Playdate.

[ThePerm]

Let's just remember that multiplayer mode in Goldeneye was an afterthought.

[Adrock]

If we're trying to spur discussion, does anyone have any thoughts on Intellivision imploding?

Intellivision asks fans for more money, reveals massive Amico debts

Intellivision CEO Tommy Tallarico departs role

As soon as I saw that Tallarico was involved, I knew this was bad news. I feel bad for everyone who crowdfunded the project so far even though this and many others are cautionary tales of the pitfalls of backing any project. It never seemed like Intellivision did anything in good faith. The fact that it's asking for more money... in order to keep the lights on so it can try to talk investors into giving them more money is all kinds of shiesty.

[ThePerm]

They failed because they should have over-asked at the beginning. Then they would be covered now.