Topic: RFN RetroActive #36: Castlevania: Rondo of Blood

[Crimm]

This is the RetroActive topic for our next RetroActive - Castlevania: Rondo of Blood (TurboCD). It is available on the Wii Virtual Console. Comments and questions here may be used in our RetroActive episode, to be recorded sometime before E3

[ClexYoshi]

Oh ****! it's the thread! I think I'll start off with my personal experience with this lovely, lovely little game.

see, back int he day when Gamespy hosted a bunch of fansites like Kirby's Rainbow Resort, HG101, and... I can't remember what the Mario one was called, I used to frequent Castlevania Dungeon to get the scoops on castlevania games and download really rare and obscure castlevania arrangement albums that involved Dracula rapping.

back then, there was this gem of a game that was held in such legendary regard; Akumajou Dracula X: Chi no Rondo. The best Classicvania in the opinion of the site's currators, who also had played other obscure stuff like Vampire Killer, the X68000 version of Akumajou Dracula, Haunted castle, and all sorts of other weirdness they got to play...

Fun fact, I had no clue WTF a Turbografx 16 or a Turbo Duo was before Rondo of Blood. at first I thought that it was a PC game, and not a PC Engine game... and for a while I considered importing before I learned the truth; that i'd be also getting a console as well as the game.

and so, strnagley, rather than just pirating the game, I decided to wait. this game was such an important part of the mythos with SotN being so important, and it being better than it's SNES counterpart, SURELY Konami had to have a re-release in the books.

and so, they did! I did not get a PSP though. Rather, I managed to hold out for that Wii VC goodness, and I was not disappointed!

and I think those guys on Castlevania dungeon are right; Rondo of Blood feels tight in it's controls, and FAIR in it's difficulty. more fair than any other classicvania that doesn't involve having mid-air control of your jump.

Before I conclude this post and play the game proper at some point, I'd like to leave this:



This is a map of Stage X, which is something that's unlockable in the PSP version, but was what happened if you'd put in the Rondo of Blood CD into a PC Engine running the incorrect BIOS! I believe there's like... one chibified Spear Guard you can whip before you get to Maria there at the end of the 'stage.' The stage uses Opus 13, which is the music used in Stage 5b

EDIT:

[pPatko]

The gameplay and graphics are superb.  But the soundtrack... It is such a departure from the music of other games in the series, both before and after.  Even the classic tunes have this late '80s/early '90s pop vibe. I almost expect Paula Abdul to start belting one out at any moment. (Looking at you Stage 5!)  Thankfully, the series later returned to the gothic/orchestral/hard rock styles in games following. 
The hidden alternate character, Maria, is VERY interesting.  A little blond girl wearing a frilly pink dress?  IN A CASTLEVANIA GAME?!?  She makes the game much easier with her little animal friends but it comes at the cost of emasculation.  Maria's ending furthers the concept.  It feels like the game is trolling you which is pretty cheeky but clever.  It's so unsatisfying that you really want to go back and beat it with Belmont.
One of the few Castlevania games I've actually beaten.  Definitely one of my favourites!

[adadad]

This is the first retroactive I've participated in for several years and it's nice to be able to get involved again. I'm not much of a Castlevania fan to be honest - the only traditional action one I played before Rondo of Blood was Super Castlevania IV, which I disliked on the Wii VC. I was hoping one of the Metroidvania games would win the poll because I enjoyed Symphony of the Night and figured the action games weren't my cup of tea. And yet, lo and behold a little over halfway into the game I'm liking Rondo of Blood.

I'm not especially good at the game, so unlocking Maria early on was a godsend. I like how tongue-in-cheek finding Maria is. Her cute appearance and Richter's condescending attitude towards her are red herrings - she's a far more versatile and agile badass than Richter and has no obvious downsides. I'm not entirely sure but I think her birds are slightly less powerful than Richter's whip? But that's easily made up for by the fact that she can shoot two at the same time and their flight arc is better.

I can see myself playing through the game first time predominantly as Maria and then perhaps switching to Richter for a re-play. The only time when the game makes me feel like using Maria is a bit of a copout is on her game over screen, with the cutesy font and flowers. Still I think it was good of Konami to include her because Richter is so stiff! Attacking with Richter's whip reminds me a bit of the swordplay in Zelda II, something about having to think carefully about whether you're ducking or standing.

Speaking of similarities to other games, there are times when the platforming in Rondo of Blood reminds me of the Ghouls 'n' Goblins series. I love that series but I don't especially like how demanding the platforming can be in Rondo of Blood. It wouldn't be so bad at all if not for how short the invincibility period is after you get hit. You're almost instantly vulnerable again so one hit can very easily become two if you're not careful.

What else...? I like the alternate paths. So far I've done the top path on the stage select screen, and the first two stages of the bottom path. After those two alternate stages the game reverted to the top path, so presumably I need to find another secret exit to continue along the harder path. Anyway it's a cool way to increase the replayability, and I'm impressed by how organic the secret paths feel, so that you might not even necessarily be aware of which path you're on. There was one moment for example where I was going from right to left across some platforms, I got knocked off and fell down to a completely different area I'd never seen. I had the choice of going left or right so I went right, assuming there'd be a way to get back up to the area I'd just fallen from. But no, after going right the ominous boss music started and before I knew it I was fighting a boss. It's unpredictable, in a good way.

Lastly, the graphics and music are great. The animation in particular is incredibly detailed.

So overall enjoying the game quite a bit. Will aim to post some concluding thoughts once I've beaten it.

[ClexYoshi]

@adadad:  Maria, for her boatloads of moves, takes double the damage Richter does, and a lot of her item crashes take a TON of hearts (I think Seiryu's item crash takes something like... 50 hearts or something ludicrous!)

To get the truly good ending, there's actually other maidens that need rescuing~! two of them are located on stage 3' and stage 4' and while it just gives you a cutscene here, the PSP version gives you permanent upgrades that are needed to find some of the game's goodies like soundtrack CDs and art and such they hid about the remake. Saving anette in stage 7 also changes the boss you fight on that stage in the PSP version.

Also, regarding the Platforming: yes, it's a little unforgiving, but at least it's not some of the rediculousness that NES Castlevania gets to, which feels similar to this, and yet enemies are much harder to handle in those. I also think that special mention needs to go out to what I'll be referring to by it's japanese title to avoid confusion here. That's right, Dracula XX, a game that claims to be a port of Rondo of Blood for the SNES, but is actually a completley different (and shitty) game. a game where a lot of the platofrming revolves around doing that thing I hade in video games where you have to have part of one of richter's heels touching the platform and nothing else in order to barely make jumps. considering Dracula XX controls very similarly to Rondo of Blood but with a much slower walk speed, you can see where that'd be a very sticky situation now that you've exerienced how richter's platforming works here.

@pPatko I LOVE how 90's as **** this game's soundtrack is, and how the official sondtrack CD for it also features arranged versions of songs that aren't in the game, Like Theme of Simon featuring a really weird chior humming the melody at the start of the track! I'd also argue that there ARE other castlevania soundtracks that reach this level of pumpin' 90's pop. particularly Akumajou Dracula for the Sharp X68000 (you can really hear it in tracks like Moon Fight and that game's version of Wicked Child) and of course the weird bouncy techno/house versions of Vampire Killer and beginning that were put into Akumajou Dracula X: Nocturne in the Moonlight (AKA the Sega Saturn version of Symphony of the Night!)

You might actually be well served to listen to the PSP version's soundtrack on youtube or something. or maybe the versions of the music form this game that was done with SNES MIDI for Dracula XX.

Lastly, a couple of tips!

Maria has a hidden move besides both versions of her slide and her triple jump! it's actually a little tricky to perform, as the timing is tight, but if you hit down, up, down, and Quarter Circle Forward and the attack button (for the fighting game savvy, think like you're doing E-honda's butt-stomp followed quickly by a Hadouken!) and Maria will do her powerful Guardian Fist attack, which is some sort of weird Jojo's Bizzare Adventure reference! also, it piles on the damage on big builky enemies really quick if you can do it on command!

USE RICHTER'S BACKFLIP! I know I made a poor show of it in the video I provided in my first post, but the backflip is actually a pretty invaluable tool for avoiding boss attacks, and a few other key attacks like the spear guard's lunging swipe attack and the flail skeleton's attack!

To attain 100% on your save file, you only need ot beat each path of all the stages with one of the characters. this THANKFULLY means you do not have to go through the hell of stage 5' with Richter, as it's already tough enough even as Maria. if you're missing 4% somewhere, that means you missed a boss on a stage route. if you're missing 2%, you missed one of the rescuable maidens.

The Clock Tower in Symphony of the Night actually has the same layout as the the one in Rondo of Blood! I don't know how much that will help, but it's an amusing easter egg and gives you a little bit of what you should be expecting level design wise!

Depending on what you folks want, I could do a number of things with my next post, be it a comparison post to Shitty little Dracula XX, some guides on getting maidens or through alternate paths of stages, or just other little weird bits of help with this game!

[adadad]

@adadad:  Maria, for her boatloads of moves, takes double the damage Richter does, and a lot of her item crashes take a TON of hearts (I think Seiryu's item crash takes something like... 50 hearts or something ludicrous!)

To get the truly good ending, there's actually other maidens that need rescuing~! two of them are located on stage 3' and stage 4' and while it just gives you a cutscene here, the PSP version gives you permanent upgrades that are needed to find some of the game's goodies like soundtrack CDs and art and such they hid about the remake. Saving anette in stage 7 also changes the boss you fight on that stage in the PSP version.

Also, regarding the Platforming: yes, it's a little unforgiving, but at least it's not some of the rediculousness that NES Castlevania gets to, which feels similar to this, and yet enemies are much harder to handle in those. I also think that special mention needs to go out to what I'll be referring to by it's japanese title to avoid confusion here. That's right, Dracula XX, a game that claims to be a port of Rondo of Blood for the SNES, but is actually a completley different (and shitty) game. a game where a lot of the platofrming revolves around doing that thing I hade in video games where you have to have part of one of richter's heels touching the platform and nothing else in order to barely make jumps. considering Dracula XX controls very similarly to Rondo of Blood but with a much slower walk speed, you can see where that'd be a very sticky situation now that you've exerienced how richter's platforming works here.

Great post with lots of useful info. Much appreciated, and the video you made is awesome too. I'll definitely try Maria's special attack, and Richter's backflip - I can see the latter making a big difference in certain encounters. Also knowing that Maria can take fewer hits than Richter makes me feel less wimpy for using her more.

The Clock Tower was a nice reference, even if it was probably my least favourite area in Symphony of the Night I've been surprised so far by how many enemies I recognise from Symphony of the Night. It's a small thing but with only one Castlevania title under my belt it feels odd to run into some of the exact same enemies with the same animations and sound effects.

[Crimm]

I just started playing tonight. I'll have some thoughts today or tomorrow. I'll probably play this on stream later this week, keeping in mind I'm terrible. Which is probably going to make it a better watch, if we're being honest.

[ClexYoshi]

I've been surprised so far by how many enemies I recognise from Symphony of the Night. It's a small thing but with only one Castlevania title under my belt it feels odd to run into some of the exact same enemies with the same animations and sound effects.

You have NO clue how much mileage Konami has gotten out of the spritework in these games. there's seriously no less than 8 different games that use the exact same Medusa Head/Fleaman/Bat/Skeleton/Spear Guard sprites from 1992. (Dracula XX, Symphony of the night/Nocturne in the moonlight, Dawn of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin, Order of Ecclesia, Harmony of Despair, the iOS SotN puzzle game I can't be bothered to remember the name of, and the two IGA directed GBA games also used like... downres'd and redrawn versions of sprites that are clearly menat to be based on this game's art.) There's also a few sprites that are ripped from Super CV4 (Une, Slogra, Gaibon), but for the most part... yeah, Konami has a rich history of recycling assets from this game in particular. Like... I remember playing Portrait of Ruin and being shocked that they literally brought back the Dogether and the wyverns... oh, and I guess Maria's little girl sprite for that game's extra mode, but now I'm getting REALLY off topic.


I am very much looking forward to a James Jones stream! I may throw together another video or such myself. hopefully one where I actually figure out the audio balance. X_X that is, if I can pry myself away from my Super Ghouls n' Souls playthrough.

[ClexYoshi]

... did I kill the thread by making a dumb Dark Souls 3 post? : (

[lolmonade]

... did I kill the thread by making a dumb Dark Souls 3 post? : (

I'm gonna start digging in tonight.  Figure my comments/questions won't make it into the podcast with my comments.  I've been eager to dig into the game, but going through a move across that country that's thrown off my gaming hours.

[adadad]

... did I kill the thread by making a dumb Dark Souls 3 post? : (

Not at all. I'm on 98% completion now (just missing one maiden!), but haven't found the time to give my concluding thoughts on the game. All in all, I've enjoyed Rondo of Blood a lot, plenty more than I expected. At its core it's nothing I haven't seen before, but the appeal is in those small touches that make it feel like a premium product.


The secrets, for instance, are surprisingly satisfying to find. I liked the environmental puzzle where you cut the supports from weights so they drop and open a path below, and another where you step onto a wooden raft and let it carry you downstream. Both of these were subtle enough that the first time I did each level I didn't notice anything; but when I looked, they were obvious. Very well designed.


Another secret I liked involves a set of scales. You attack a rock so it drops and weighs down one scale. Standing on the other one takes you up to an alternate boss fight. You don't get anything for it, it's just there, but it's cool nonetheless. Between the multiple routes, the maidens and so on, there are definitely hints of Metroid in there, so it's less surprising to me now the changes Konami made to the series with Symphony of the Night.

For all that's good about the game, I never could get into playing as Richter with the whip. It's just too stiff and unwieldy for my tastes. The start of the Clock Tower level, when you're crossing the collapsing bridge with the bats following you... ugh! Maria's belly slide, on the other hand, awesome. I did have to play as Richter to defeat Dracula and get the "real" ending though, and it took me about thirty tries compared with two or three with Maria. The Belmont family aren't the worst controlling videogame family out there but I have no plans to try the original Castlevania or Castlevania III any time soon solely for that reason. I'll take Maria or Alucard any day.

[ClexYoshi]

'tis a shame you couldn't get on with Richter here, as I think playing the game as him is INSANELY rewarding and the level design and enemy placement shine best when you're playing as the cannonical strongest of the Belmont clan. It's the opposite of some of the games I hate the most like Mega Man X6 where there's a character that highlights how fundamentally broken the level design is.


in that particular example, it feels like a lot of the levels are clearly designed for one character's abilities and the other character just straight up gets the shaft because of the lack of his damage output, the level terrain not conforming to his limited movement options, or the enemies just not having an efficient manner unto which X is equipped to handle without just taking the hit and moving on.

There is ALWAYS a solution to an enemy as richter. it might not always be super intuitive or it might be best handled with a sub-weapon and heart management, but richter always has a trick in his stiff arsenal to handle the situation. the crumbling clock tower bridge is that while richter can't influence his mid-air momentum, he can turn around while in the air and retreat and whip at the giant bats, and a well timed axe or two is an excelent solution to the ones that spawn in front of Richter.

[adadad]

There is ALWAYS a solution to an enemy as richter. it might not always be super intuitive or it might be best handled with a sub-weapon and heart management, but richter always has a trick in his stiff arsenal to handle the situation. the crumbling clock tower bridge is that while richter can't influence his mid-air momentum, he can turn around while in the air and retreat and whip at the giant bats, and a well timed axe or two is an excelent solution to the ones that spawn in front of Richter.

My first ever Classic Controller Pro arrived in the mail yesterday and I decided to take your advice and give Richter another go - now I wish I'd read your advice in more detail because I sadly didn't get very far following my own strategy. I figured because the Clock Tower involves incoming enemies from behind, it'd be useful to do Richter's "moonwalk" - when you hold down attack to move while facing backwards. Well, I'll say it again, I didn't get far. After 10 or so goes I made it to the next section of the level only to die there, or maybe on the final section, but either way I was always without a subweapon for that final part which is just brutal.


I might go back and try one more go using your exact strategy but it was not a lot of fun, very frustrating, and I don't want it to dampen my experience of what is a pretty excellent game overall. I'm not afraid of a serious challenge by the way - I love Super Ghouls 'n' Ghosts for example, and the stiff jumping doesn't bother me there. I don't mind it in Rondo of Blood either, it's just the whip! I hate how long the animation is, you have to be so precise.

[adadad]

Well shut my mouth. I followed your advice, Clex, and made it through the first section of the level on my first go, with half Richter's health remaining. From there, playing conservatively, I eventually made it all the way to the boss. There I got game over, twice. But you know, something clicked and I now get what you're saying about the levels being designed with Richter's capabilities in mind. For an action game, you have to play surprisingly thoughtfully with him. I went back to an earlier stage with Richter and had the same sense there too. I don't know that I have the patience now to replay every single level using him but it's cool to know.

Also, a quick question: on the menu, it says continue and has a number by it. Is that how many game overs you've had? I assumed at first that the game had limited continues but you would earn more in the levels by collecting money, a bit like in Super Ghouls 'n' Ghosts. It only just occurred to me that it might be a record of how many game overs you've had? If so that's a pretty cool touch for such an old game. I'm at 42, and proud.

[ClexYoshi]

that is indeed a game over counter. and yeah... all the money does is add to score like in a usual castlevania game, and then it allows you to buy the technique videos, which gives a showcase of the devs beating a boss and giving you the general strategy to no-damage it. if you get through a boss fight with full life, you get a 1-up, which is REALLY nice when you try to plonk down and do a perfect file (not advisable. Stage 5x is a cluster **** and I cannot give you advice for that white hot mess.)


couple of other things I just want to toss out in the thread before deadline time.

in Stage 3x, there's a gravestone towards the start of the level up on a hill you can push, and the little bonus room it gives you access to has all sub-weapons in case you want to sample some right towards the start of a relatively early stage.

The PSP remake actually has a COMPLETLEY NEW Stage 5x... which is cool, because the original 5x was a stage the devs CLEARLY ran out of time on and were like, "oh ****, uh... quick, toss a bunch of assets here and make it only unlockable by beating dracula!"

The PSP version also hammers home your failure if you haven't rescued yourself some maidens. Terra and Iris both give richter and maria special items that let them break down special wall types they put in the remake to bar progress, and those are needed to save Annette, who if you don't rescue her in stage 7, becomes a new succubus boss that's fought instead of the ghost of Shaftsmas past. also, having all four maidens gives Dracula a third form because... well, Rondo of Blood does have one of the easier Classicvania Dracula fights. it's also one ingraned into our heads by the beginning of SOTN and it's easy enough to figure out that the trick is to jump and hit dracula as his arm comes up in the first phase, and then the whip hitbox stays out long enough to catch the fireballs. no crazy ass hitting him and doing a backflip afterwards required!

I also feel that I should talk about...



see this? this is NOT rondo of blood. it may have some swag SNES remixes and some lifted spritework, and the same general premise, but this is about as much Rondo of Blood as Haunted Castle is Castlevania 1.

In spite of the exorbanant cost to wn a cartridge of this game, this game is NOT good. it was either made by extreme masochists, or people who maybe don't have as good of a grip on level design as the original Rondo of Blood team did.

there are only 2 maidens in Maria and Annette. Maria is, however, NOT playable in this game.

for some insane reason, Richter's walk animation is double the speed of the one in Rondo of Blood but moves about half the speed. it is literally quicker to hop around everywhere.

His backflip has much tighter timing.

some of the item crashes got some big nerfs.

I can't be bothered to remember if the bible is in the game or if it's just the CV1 sub-wepaons only.

What I do remember is the TERRIBLE jumps.



The insanely unforgiving jumps.



it may not look like it, but this jump is only BARELY possible with one of richter's feet hanigng off the platform, and even then he BARELY clears the gap.

I will say it's VERY nice that we get a less anime inspired look to the art and some of the new bosses are REALLY cool.



And then there's this white-hot garbage that by itself ruins the entire game.

[Mite000]

I had purchased this game years ago on the Wii Virtual Console, but I never got passed stage 4 or so. When I went back and booted it up again, and found that I got stuck around the same place. After failing multiple times I decided to try out Maria, and found that she made the game much easier. I almost found her broken compared to Richter. The combination of being able to double jump, as well as have an attack that acts as somewhat of a double boomberang, gave me the mobility I felt like I never had in the older Castlevania games. Then there were her animal friends that seemed to be more helpful then Richter's found abilities as well. Depending on the boss, either the cat or the turtle shield was a ridiculous help, turning what felt like an impossible enemy into a push over. By switching to Maria, even though I believe she takes more damage then Richter, I was able to continue progressing and eventually beat the game. I still cant do it without Maria, but I'll take the win.

[ClexYoshi]

I had purchased this game years ago on the Wii Virtual Console, but I never got passed stage 4 or so. When I went back and booted it up again, and found that I got stuck around the same place. After failing multiple times I decided to try out Maria, and found that she made the game much easier. I almost found her broken compared to Richter. The combination of being able to double jump, as well as have an attack that acts as somewhat of a double boomberang, gave me the mobility I felt like I never had in the older Castlevania games. Then there were her animal friends that seemed to be more helpful then Richter's found abilities as well. Depending on the boss, either the cat or the turtle shield was a ridiculous help, turning what felt like an impossible enemy into a push over. By switching to Maria, even though I believe she takes more damage then Richter, I was able to continue progressing and eventually beat the game. I still cant do it without Maria, but I'll take the win.

I feel like that's such a reductionist way to look at Rondo of Blood, though. giving one straight playthrough on one path with Maria is akin to say... Playing Kirby game through on the normal difficulty and calling it a day. there's SO much more to the game, and Maria is more of a tool of  seeing what the game has to offer and a way to develop strategies with Richter for parts that maybe you haven't last up to yet because you haven't figured out the right trick of his.

I actually feel a lot of the times that I don't even use hearts with Maria because her dove spam and guardian fist just melt enemies without real need of Byakko or such. The music book is pretty funny though on bosses that the item crash can hit.

Richter's sub wepaons are more integral to his play style. I feel things like the Bible cover so much more ground than any non item crash attack in the game, or that things like axes are perfect for nailing things he can't reach, even if they aren't super strong and bounce off of the more resilient enemies. Holy water is great for taking out stuff in a line on the ground and managing enemies like fleamen, while the throwing cross is an amazing tool for chipping away at larger enemies. it all has a place, and even the item crashes are integral for parts where perhapps the pressure is too great. actually, Axe item crash is one of my favorites because the screen nuke for the low cost of 10 hearts is great when you're getting pressured.

At the same time, I can see how opinions like Jon's that he posted on Twitter are valid. I jokingly likened it to my friend's excuse on why he thinks it sucks to have steamed crab legs for dinner, but i get the point; It's a lot of work figuring out the best ways to crack those shells in the best way possible  or pull the tendons out just right to get the meat out in the most in-tact shape you can. WHen you DO crack the shell, there's not a whole lot of meat there to dunk in your melted butter. I feel that when Crab is good and steamed right, it's one of the finest meals you can have. No, there isn't a lot of meat there, but what is is OH so succulent.

If Rondo of Blood with richter is like trying to break into King Crab, though... Maria is like getting that imitation crab meat out of a vaccum package. yeah, it's crab-like and it's instant in it's gratification, but... even if you like it, you KNOW there's some indignity and something you're missing out on by not having your crab freshly steamed.

(if you're only going to use one of my posts, PLEASE use those last two paragraphs)

[ClexYoshi]

sorry to double post, but I feel this is relavent.