Topic: Xenoblade's Graphics: Why HD Does Not Matter

[Halbred]

I've said it since Wind Waker: consistent art direction trumps HD any day of the week. My absolute favorite game in terms of art direction is the Patapon series. Iconic, colorful, consistent, animates beautifully. For a more complex thing, I'll take Rayman Origins. Absolutely stunning game that benefits from HD because it USES the technology to its benefit. It's not required (the game looks perfectly amazing at 720p) and still looks mind-blowing. I've seen Skyrim played in HD and at 720p and it doesn't look all that different to me.

Now, take some of this generation's Nintendo games (like Other M, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Mario Galaxy games, and Skyward Sword) and pump them onto their native HD resolution, and I think they'd all look absolutely incredible.

[Oblivion]

Isn't 720p HD?

[TJ Spyke]

Isn't 720p HD?

Yes. 720p and up is HD.

[Oblivion]

I've seen Skyrim played in HD and at 720p and it doesn't look all that different to me.

Hm...

[Luigi Dude]

Now, take some of this generation's Nintendo games (like Other M, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Mario Galaxy games, and Skyward Sword) and pump them onto their native HD resolution, and I think they'd all look absolutely incredible.

Yep, this is why Nintendo's Wii U games are going to look incredeble.  The stuff Nintendo's top studio's were able to do on the Wii was amazing and now imagine them working on hardware that's way more advanced then the Wii and it becomes almost scary to think how good their Wii U games will look.

[Jonnyboy117]

I'm with enner on the grass -- Xenoblade in general has some of the best vegetation and underbrush I've ever seen in a game. It really makes the world feel lush and alive, and it allows for more differentiation between each environment.

[Jonnyboy117]

Zach, assuming you meant you've seen Skyrim in 1080p vs. 720p...

I think it can only run in 1080p on a PC, and you'd need need a pretty huge monitor to tell the difference. A game like that isn't going to have assets generated at any higher resolution (in part because of the console focus in development).

If you want another example of amazing art direction, check out Trine 2. It doesn't do anything crazy on a technical level, but the world is unbelievably colorful and has amazing depth and detail in the backgrounds.

[ivanincubus]

Oh boy! Now this didn't happen when we all were in the 16-bit era. Actually it did, and 10 years from now it will seem just as absurd. The truth is that art and creativity will always win over "modern graphics".

[broodwars]

Oh boy! Now this didn't happen when we all were in the 16-bit era. Actually it did, and 10 years from now it will seem just as absurd. The truth is that art and creativity will always win over "modern graphics".

It has to be said, though, that as important as art design is in a game, once you as a gamer go HD on an HD TV there's really no going back to seeing games the way you used to.  You can't "un-see" the radical visual difference between SD and HD, especially in gaming.  I think that may be what the author of the article in question ran into: after years of playing HD games, suddenly they're playing the SD Xenoblade and all the graphical flaws just leaped out at them.  It's jarring, and at least in my case it takes a long time to get used to playing SD games again.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Oh boy! Now this didn't happen when we all were in the 16-bit era. Actually it did, and 10 years from now it will seem just as absurd. The truth is that art and creativity will always win over "modern graphics".

It has to be said, though, that as important as art design is in a game, once you as a gamer go HD on an HD TV there's really no going back to seeing games the way you used to.  You can't "un-see" the radical visual difference between SD and HD, especially in gaming.  I think that may be what the author of the article in question ran into: after years of playing HD games, suddenly they're playing the SD Xenoblade and all the graphical flaws just leaped out at them.  It's jarring, and at least in my case it takes a long time to get used to playing SD games again.

Have to say I agree, though I did go back and play Wind Waker and it was not jarring in the least, in fact it still looks visually and artistically gorgeous.

[Enner]

It has to be said, though, that as important as art design is in a game, once you as a gamer go HD on an HD TV there's really no going back to seeing games the way you used to.  You can't "un-see" the radical visual difference between SD and HD, especially in gaming.  I think that may be what the author of the article in question ran into: after years of playing HD games, suddenly they're playing the SD Xenoblade and all the graphical flaws just leaped out at them.  It's jarring, and at least in my case it takes a long time to get used to playing SD games again.

Mm.

My tardiness in joining the era of high definition games is a reason why I don't mind the technical shortcomings of Xenoblade's visuals. I didn't have regular access to a high-definition-capable platform until a PC in 2008. Even so, I still frequently played games on a PSP I had since 2007. Before that, I was playing older PC games and free-to-play online games on a modest laptop. Playing on platforms that span a wide spectrum of technical prowess has tempered my expectations and allowed me to better appreciate games relative to their platform.

[NWR_Neal]

Wind Waker is still the best-looking Zelda game in my opinion. There is no contest.

[NWR_DrewMG]

Wind Waker is still the best-looking Zelda game in my opinion. There is no contest.

While no Zelda game looks bad, per se, Wind Waker is the only one that truly stands out as superb.

[Chocobo_Rider]

I actually have never really been a fan of the Wind Waker style.  I love bright colors and I looooooove cell shading.  But I think the art design of the people (football heads, peg legs) turned me off too much.

My favorite Zelda "look" has got to be Twilight Princess.  It was atmospheric and, in my opinion, told a story through its aesthetic alone.

[Ceric]

I almost be surprised if Xenoblade didn't one day get a HD remake.

[Adrock]

Do you mean remade from scratch or Luke remastered like Sony did with the God of War collections?

[Ian Sane]

For Zelda I dig Skyward Sword's look.  Wind Waker looks too goofy and silly.  The Looney Tunes visuals completely kill the mystique for me.

My parents have an HDTV and everything except for my PS3 looks like **** on it.  The problem is that when you have a bigger screen like that, games designed for a smaller resolution get all pixelated.  When I finally get an HDTV of my own I plan on keeping an old CRT around for the older systems.  Hell, I do that now.  My newer systems are connected to a bigger CRT than my older ones.  I play SNES and Genesis on a CRT that's maybe 20" because it better suits their visuals.  The "tighter" the screen is, the less I notice the flaws.  Realistically that was the screen size the devs were aiming for at the time anyway.

[Adrock]

I loved the cel-shading in The Wind Waker but not so much the character designs besides Ganondorf. I felt it was too jarring of a change for Zelda after Ocarina of Time. I liked Twilight Princess' art direction but it could have used a brighter palette.

[Lady Mushroom]

NES - 2D that looks like ****

SNES - 2D that looks great and therefore is all you need for 2D graphics

N64 - 3D that looks like ****

Gamecube/Wii - 3D that looks great and therefore is all you need PERIOD

This is what I've always thought and still do.

[oksoda]

Speaking as someone whose attention has never been fully captured by any current-generation RPG, I find Xenoblade's blue collar, function-over-flamboyance approach (read: limitation) immediately calming and oddly nostalgic. Sure, there are no bells and whistles, no moments where your mouth will be left agape at the visual splendor your electronic box is producing before your eyes, but damn all if the soundtrack and sheer fun of playing don't make up for those voids.

There are not many games that I will devote hours in the triple digits to any longer; I will gladly play Xenoblade to completion.

[Ceric]

Do you mean remade from scratch or Luke remastered like Sony did with the God of War collections?

Hmmm...
You know, I think the visuals redone.   I haven't seen the God of War collections but I heard Shadow of the Colossus and Ico really had a good job done with them.  So something more like that.  Where the original vision is brought out of an already visually impressive game at the time.

[Enner]

There are not many games that I will devote hours in the triple digits to any longer; I will gladly play Xenoblade to completion.

Make sure you have guides or that Xenoblade Google Docs handy. The quest tracking and character map provided in the game do not facilitate the completionist in doing everything in the fastest possible manner.

[broodwars]

Do you mean remade from scratch or Luke remastered like Sony did with the God of War collections?

Hmmm...
You know, I think the visuals redone.   I haven't seen the God of War collections but I heard Shadow of the Colossus and Ico really had a good job done with them.  So something more like that.  Where the original vision is brought out of an already visually impressive game at the time.

Sony does amazing work with their HD Collections, though unfortunately no one else has (Ubisoft's, in particular, have been poor).  I think the Sly Collection in particular looks fantastic because Cel Shading ages well to begin with, but Ico and Shadow of the Colossus were rendered just plain better games by the remastering (especially the now slowdown-less SotC).

Unfortunately, Nintendo really doesn't have an equivalent with which we can compare to get an idea how Nintendo would treat such a project.  The games they have "remastered" have pretty much been rebuilt from the ground-up for whatever platform they're released on (Mario All-Stars, Ocarina 3D, Star Fox 3D, etc.), and I highly doubt Nintendo would devote the resources to do something like that for a massive game like Xenoblade.

[Adrock]

Yeah, the God of War Collections are pretty impressive, namely the origins one. Ready At Dawn actually went back into the games and redid some of the textures. I could see Nintendo remastering Xenoblade in the future but they would have Grezzo or Tose do most of the legwork under Monolith Soft's supervision. I suppose it might depend on how well the game sells worldwide.

Was Ocarina of Time 3D remade from the ground up? It looked like Grezzo just cleaned up the character models (namely the faces) and textures.

[Kairon]

Oh boy! Now this didn't happen when we all were in the 16-bit era. Actually it did, and 10 years from now it will seem just as absurd. The truth is that art and creativity will always win over "modern graphics".

Truth. I remember in the 16-bit days thinking I had to defend the relatively bland sprite-based JRPG graphics of the day by proclaiming that story and gameplay mattered much more.