I knew this would come sooner or later.  ;)

I hope you mean "ancestor," because that seems to make more sense, given that Rosalina is hundreds of years old...  :P

Actually, one of the theories claim that she might be in reality Peach's daughter. Its a weird theory, but considering that the babies can play with their adult counterparts anything can happen in the Mario universe.

Surprising choice, but a good one. I think Rosalina has much potential, and hopefully Nintendo will continue to make her interesting.

I've always thought Nintendo games had great stories even when they were weak on the surface, based on the inherent symbolism inside.

You could view the Peach-Mario-Bowser relationship as a God(des)-Man-Devil relationship, respectively.  You could use Freud's Superego-Ego-Id too, but that works a whole lot better with Zelda and Zelda-Link-Ganon, also respectively.

It's amazing what a little college will do to understanding.

But one that really floors me is Drawn to Life.  You literally are God in that game and you act through a Golem/Avatar/Only Begotten Son engendered by your two little Rapo buddies Mari and Jowee.  (Mary and Joseph?)  You spend most of the game bringing the game's village out of darkness and creating a lot of the things as you see fit.  And on the 7th day, you rest, right?

Good blog post. Rosalina is an awesome character, and I hope she gets more facetime in Galaxy 2.

More refined genetic studies since the initial human/chimp comparison have shown that it's more like 96.7%. Still close, of course.

Also we share 50% with a banana. Bananas are used in Mario games, so it is relevant to the topic at hand. That is why people are attracted to blonds. ;)

I'm really not a big fan of Rosalina she is still pretty much yet another do nothing woman in a Nintendo game, at least she hasn't gotten captured (yet).

Do nothing woman? If you are talking about her in game then yeah. But story wise she attends a whole observatory and raises the Lumas from birth to adulthood when they become planets or stars. Its unfair to call her a "do nothing" woman when she has a far more developed story than the other Mario characters so far.

And did anyone get the meaning behind the last paragraph?

Actually, this is a little misleading, because that comparison is referring only to genes.  Non-coding regions make up 98.5% of our DNA (which is involved in stuff like regulating said genes), and it's likely that these regions are a big driving force in the difference between species.  Unfortunately, this seems to be the latest commonly misrepresented statistic, much like the "humans only use 10% of their brain" BS.

What, the paragraph about Pauline? No, I didn't get that at all :P

I'm gonna have to say "ancestor" works better too. Descendant is one thing, but *ancient descendant* is just wacky to even try to comprehend.
Besides games like Partners in Time and Yoshi's Island 2 (which were both developed by third parties and can be considered dubious despite their greatness), the whole deal with characters interacting with their baby counterparts in the sports games simply cannot be considered story canon. It is unfathomable that they conveniently create a rift in time and space every time someone wants to have a race or play tennis.
I consider those games to just be fanservice. Like Smash Bros, it's just a series of characters and locales from across the Mario universe pressed together into the shape of a sports game. You get to play said sport with your favourite characters, but you aren't meant to question why or how they're there.
In a real game, if someone chucked Bowser into a tennis court and handed him a racquet, he'd likely use the thing to clobber Mario and make off to his castle with Peach.

That doesn't make any sense. How could somebody have a daughter who is older than they are?
Though I guess if a single character can be an entire species then anything's possible...

Well, if I remember the theory correctly it has something to do with time and space. I know the theorist used Rosalina's end game speech as a basis for the idea.

I don't think its actually that accurate, but I did used it as an example of how the character has created unusual speculation.

The theory about relativity and time is that when traveling at light speed, time moves "slower" for you than it does for others.  So for her to be Peach's Daughter is out, but for her to be an ANCESTOR is in, IF Rosalina is, say traveling at light or warp speeds, she would, relative to the Mushroom Kingdom's Earth-Like Planet, age a lot slower than her descendants.  It would be theoretically possible for here to have witnessed her entire lineage from her to Peach.

(Except for, of course, the fact that she leaves her planet when she's really young.  Who to have babies with?)

As an aside, is there any reason to think that the designers are severe "Mama's Boys?"  I mean Peach, Daisy, And Rosalina tower over even Luigi, who's taller than Mario.  Just a thought, cuz it goes against the norm in a big way.

Yeah, I always found it funny how the Mario men are shorter than the women. I think the only Mario guy who is just as tall as the women is Waluigi. He is meant to be comically skinny in the same way that Wario is meant to be insanely fat.

It's for comic effect, I always assumed. The two short plumbers save the "tall gorgeous princess".

Very nice article, Pap. Nice thoughts and I appreciated the theories.

I took the last paragraph to be a nod to the first of the four Mario Universe 'damsel/princesses', Paulina.

She is actually the most intriguing Nintendo character to me ever because of her mysterious backstory. I hope that she makes a return and that her characters is unpacked even more in SMG2, but I also hope that they keep her partially shrouded in mystery.

There is something about the romanticized 'lone ranger/wandering traveler' image she bears.

Rosalina is a great character. Despite being new to the game, she started off with a grand slam in Super Mario Galaxy. As with the rest of you, I am hoping to see more of her.

I'm still surprised Rosalina wasn't included in Mario Super Sluggers, which has the largest cast of any Mario game. They put the newcomer Baby Daisy in the game (who is a terrible character BTW), but nothing from Super Mario Galaxy? Characters from Super Mario Sunshine started popping up in Mario games instantly; Petey Piranha, Pianta, and Noki can be found in various games. So what's taking Rosalina so long?

Lots of Mario characters have mysteries. Forgetting the lessor characters like Waluigi who were just thrown in to broaden the rosters of the spin-offs (c'mon Nintendo, give him a connection with Wario already!), we don't even know what profession Mario and Luigi have. Are they plumbers? They were in the cartoons but I don't recall any game ever stating that. We need to see them fix a leaky sink one of these days...

Miyamoto once stated in an interview that he never really wants Mario to have a profession. People assumed they were plumbers and the cartoon (along with NoA to a degree) decided to reinforce that notion. He wanted to leave those things up to the players imaginations.

Also, I really wanted an improved sequel to the Gamecube Wario World with 2-player co-op including Waluigi. I even wrote a letter to Nintendo asking them to add that. Remember Waluigi was a villain in the Mario DDR game

Lots of Mario characters have a lack of backstory. That isn't mystery. Failing to mention something does not instantly create mystery, and even if it did, it is not an especially interesting mystery. I don't care why Donkey Kong wanted to kidnap Paulina. Certain things are intriguing and Rosalina holds those things.

PS- isn't this the part of the thread where we derail on a different character and Pap tells us that is what his next blog is about? *hinting that I'd like a hint from Pap of what's next* ;)

Really? I didn't know that. Was he paired with Wario or was their still no connection? I really want that game but it is kind of expensive. It's the only console non-edutainment Mario game I don't own.

About Mario and Luigi being short I realized a couple of reasons for it. First, its a common comical effect in cartoon characters. For example, Mickey Mouse is ridiculously short. Popeye is also short when compared to tall and lanky Olive Oil. Yet he still can beat up Bluto who is thrice his size. It also represents the unlikely hero defeating the big, menacing brute.

About my hint as to who my next character will be; read that last paragraph one more time and forget about Pauline.

Finally, I agree with Stratos in that a character not having a backstory means they are mysterious. The Mario characters as I already explained are very straight forward. You know who they are, how they act and where they live in some cases. Rosalina, on the other hand, actually has a back story that is actually explained and shown to the player, but with enough elements to make her mysterious.

Regarding Galaxy appearing in the Mario Spin off games, Mop, remember that Super Mario Galaxy was released near the end of 2007. By then Mario Party 8 was out, Mario Kart Wii was still a few months away and Mario Sluggers was already deep in development so they couldn't add any Galaxy elements into it. Hell, not even Brawl had any references to Galaxy, not even a Luma sticker.

Remember that Nintendo still owe us a true sequel to Mario Tennis and Mario Golf, not to mention Mario Party 9, and New Super Mario Bros, Wii will be released soon so maybe them we can see some elements of Super Mario Galaxy elements thrown in for good measure.

I think it's interesting that people like Rosalina's mysteriousness but can't wait to hear about Samus' back story?

I really hope that they don't do time travel in Other M. From the trailer, it looks like there are two Samus's talking to one another.

They somehow found the time to include Rosalina into Mario Kart Wii so there's no way I'm going to believe there wasn't enough time to add her to Mario Super Sluggers which was released two months after MKWii. And don't forget that they added Baby Daisy to Mario Super Sluggers who debuted in Mario Kart Wii, so I'm going to chalk that one up to Namco being lazy and incompetent.

I wouldn't be expecting that. The reason why we got the New Play Control! Mario Power Tennis is because Camelot has no interest in creating Mario games anymore, so there isn't going to be a new Wii version. We're also far more likely to see a New Play Control! version of Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour than we are a new game.

I'm even beginning to doubt a Mario Party 9 for various reasons. First off is that Mario Party 8 is still selling, but also that Hudson seems content in releasing what could be minigames in Mario Party 9 as WiiWare releases.

Different games. People are used to the vagueness of Mario characters but a game like Metroid is better-suited to have a story.

Just wait until Rosalina is captured and Mario has to rescue her.

I would actually buy that if it was put out on WiiWare.

So?

Just because she might get kidnapped it doesn't mean all her appeal goes down the drain. Her story has already been told and her character already established in the Mario canon. Strong people can also be vulnerable. If Bowser were to threaten the existence of the universe, including the Lumas it is likely she would give herself up as long as her Lumas are safe.

Not to mention that the heroes have also been kidnapped. Mario has been kidnapped before in games like Luigi's Mansion and Super Princess Peach. While you might say that these aren't canon they still presented Mario in a vulnerable state that we aren't used to seeing. And even then we still love Mario.

It's understandable that you don't like Rosalina. Fine. But remember, not every female character has to be Samus in order to be good. She is a mother figure and a guardian to many, and as the Game Overthinker said once "re-envisions life in the universe as an act of maternal nurture than a macho construction project".

Finally, Peach is a damsel in distress and people, especially girls like her. I know a friend who loves Peach but is the exact opposite.

Aka, a stereotype perpetuated by a male dominated industry. I could care less if certain girls like that, the fact is that the damsel in distress is what you get when you have males dominating an industry. Rosalina is basically an extension of that philosophy, instead of a damsel in distress (for now at least) she is a stay at home mom raising her babies while the male heroes do all the Galaxy saving.  It is a stereotype I'm sick with, and regardless of how the setting or circumstances have changed in its presentation it is still outdated and ridiculous. While the industry is finally growing up (though still a LONG ways to go), Nintendo is pretty much stuck in a rut when it comes to gender roles minus a couple of exceptions (Those being Samus, and Zelda to an extent now).

Until Nintendo actually has her do something more then being a the stereotypical "stay at home mom who has the hero doing all the fighting for her", Nintendo can shove their backwards, stereotypical, female characters.

If someone threatened my family there would hell to pay. I'm not only the woman that would say this, I wouldn't "give myself up" I'd fight back any way I could, even it meant my death, for my family that is a small price to pay. You've heard the saying "Hell has no fury like a woman scorned", well try to mess with my family and see what happens. I won't give my family up without a fight, and I know most women would not either.

It is kind of sad when people glaze over characters like Rosalina who are sexist cliche's with a new coat of paint or (while fun I admit) a game starring peach where you get through it her emotions. No wonder so many women have trouble getting into games, though I do see hope but it is coming from companies other then Nintendo. Even when Nintendo at least tries with a character like Zelda (such as Sheik) the male population starts insulting that character change as her being a man in sheik mode. So I guess much of the blame can be thrown squarely at many of the male gamers as well.

It is because of the attitude of many gamers that you will never see a character like Rosalina, I dunno, SAVE MARIO. If she did she would have to go to her universal kitchen between levels to cook up some star dust, maybe squirt out a few star babies, along the way. Having her be a straight forward heroine though would not fly just like it didn't fly with Peach.

To a certain extend I understand why you would be annoyed by the damsel in distress. But why do you take issue with being a stay at home mother? Hell, if you see it as a derogatory thing for women then you are pretty much belittling motherhood.

Being a stay at home mother may not get you awards or recognition, but its still a job with a lot of responsibilities. She has to tend to everyone and make sure everything runs smoothly and still be a loving, caring individual. My mother was a stay at home mother. She used to work at a local factory until the birth of my sister and me. She attended everything in our lives because dad worked the graveyard shift and slept in the day. And just because she was a stay at home mother it didn't mean she was of lesser value. She made sure everything was fine in my life and gave me and my sister anything we wanted or needed. She loved being a mother and I am eternally grateful for her efforts.

Believe or not there are many women who have accepted their roles as mothers and are proud of it. There is something beautiful in being a mother. While I know a man is capable of being a loving father there's something about maternal love that is different, deep even.

You are only paying attention to the apparent stereotype and not looking deeper. Rosalina is a mother who lost her mother at a young age. She had to become a mother to those that didn't have a hand to guide them across the galaxy. Despite not having a mother of her own Rosalina took the Lumas in and built them a home where she and the lumas grew happy.

Once again, in your efforts in believing in a strong female lead you have belittled the most important role a woman will ever have; being a mother.

You missed my point entirely I have no problem with stay at home mothers but it is a cliche perpetuated by backwards developers. Believe it or not even a mother of kids can do more then stay at home, in fact she can be involved in various things as well. If a woman wishes to be solely a stay at home mom, great, I respect her 100% but I don't need to see that perpetuated all the freaken time in various forms of media. Not to mention when coming from one of the most sexist companies around I cannot forgive the focus on certain stereotypes.

What is the most important role a man has then, being a bald space marine trying to end the alien invasion? Being a mother is a wonderful thing, but there are, believe it or not, there are other amazing things women do that are very important as well. Joan of Arc was not a mother and she did some amazing things as well that are inspiring to me and many other women. The FACT is that the woman staying solely at home taking care of kids and cooking is an outdated stereotype in this world, that is a facet but it is much more complex then that. We have enough media already that tries to suggest that is all women can do right.

I am disappointed that you are twisting my statements pap, did I degrade stay at home moms? No but I did degrade that Rosalina is perpetuating a stereotype that while the woman is at home the man has to go save the universe in the meantime because that is all she is capable of. There is so much more diversity in women then that, and all have value INCLUDING stay at home moms, but I don't need that being the sole focus from media, it is lazy and stupid.

I'm sure you had a fantastic mother, and I respect her 100%, but now days there is so much more complexity and, yes, understanding of gender that is sadly only catching up to media. Rosalina at best is a cliched female character, at worse she is showing the ignorance of Nintendo, especially, that women can be more diverse then that, that she can have those traits but others as well. To be blessed with a family but at the same time able to do more as well if she so chooses.

It would be so refreshing to see a game where a mother is raising a family but when her world (or universe is threatened) in order to save everything she loved she didn't pick up a man to do it but instead fought to save what she truly loves herself (Or gasp, has a husband that stays at home to protect the family while she is gone). Wouldn't that be refreshing? It would not only show a unique presentation of gender roles but it would also show respect to the dear men who are stay at home dads in our world (I know, shock, but it does exist and many are amazing people too when it comes to raising their family).

Nintendo though is content with a variation of the theme of "a woman is in trouble, let's get a man to save the day!" whether that be her kidnapped or her galaxy being threatened. You can dislike what I'm saying but I think it would be so cool if a loving mother like Rosalina, who is obvious powerful, not to mention caring took matters into her own hands to protect her children, or perhaps a dual protection where they work in tandem to stop Bowser. Much better then "Oh no the universe is in trouble better get Mario to save it for me!"

I'm sorry, but you decided to see Rosalina as the stereotype, not as the character. Technically, ALL of the Mario characters are stereotypes that promotes unhealthy ideals.

Mario is a stereotype of Italian people. Luigi's character says that shy guys will never find glory in life. Bowser sends turtles to fight Mario, and Mario defeats them by stomping on them. That's promoting violence against animals. Wario is a fat guy that eats EVERYTHING and promotes greed. Daisy's character says that tomboy girls are obnoxious. Donkey Kong promotes the fact that gorillas are nothing but violent, dumb creatures when science has said otherwise.

Hell...BIRDO PROMOTES CROSS DRESSING!

See what I did there? All of the characters have the potential of being harmful, but that's because I decided to see them as that. The reality of the situation is that they are cartoon characters. They live in a cartoon world where the classic storybook ideals exist. They are great exaggerations of the typical behavior we see in the real world. Once again they are cartoons.

Rosalina is also part of the same group. She is meant to be a mother figure.

I honestly believe you are thinking too hard and trying to bring realistic ideals into a world that is considered highly imaginative and NOT representative of the real world.

Media influences perception whether we like it or not. I'm saying complex characters, even when they are cartoons (look at Pixar's movies) are a great thing, not a bad thing. Even Samus I thought was too stereotypical but in the straight out kick the crap out of them heroine sort of way, though with Tecmo's new partnership with Nintendo on Other M it looks like we will see other sides of her personality, making her a complex person.

The one character I loved in the Mario games and thought had the most potential is all but dead, and that is Wendy O Koopa. For that series they seem content with having a cartoon male dominated society (OK we don't know what Yoshi is so maybe not totally LOL). It gets tiring after awhile, especially when the women characters never stick up for themselves and fight back. It is old and tiresome, which is why I don't think they should get special credit for Rosalina.

Better watch out Pap, pro may attack you in your sleep for saying that.

I'm going to end the discussion here. Its obvious that nothing I say will change your views on the character, and nothing you will say can change. I still believe Rosalina is a wonderful new character and actually LIKE that she is a mother.

Let's end the discussion before we get more personal and we turn the thread into a "who is right" debate.

And I encourage everyone to do the same.

I don't recall personally attacking you, if I did I apologize. . Anyway.

Who is for a game starring Rosalina where her and her star kids kick some Koopa butt, to perhaps even save Mario? I could learn to love the character then.

If it has classic mario platforming and no crying, umbrella, or dish-pan-weaponry, bring it on.

Pans can really hurt though. Especially one right off the stove!

Come to think of it, it would actually be cool if Rosalina teleported home, put a pan on the over, heated it to scalding temperatures to use as a weapon!

That would seem like copying Peach's SSBB moveset while perpetuating a dreaded domestic definition. It needs more originality. Consider these famous female attacks:

dixie kong: Hair that can be used to attack AND slowly helicopter around- awesome

cherry darling: foot-gun. enough said

T-X: plasma energy weapon, circular saw, flame thrower, and more. These weapons fit Rosalina to a 'T' LOL

ilia: heal a party member, respawn, nuke the entire galaxy with energy and trap a man in a parallel universe. win-win. heavily magic-focused.


I expect Miyamoto to fully incorporate this arsenal into Rosalina's next game.

I would so be behind that game. And for a finishing move she can bring in her hot pan and burn the enemy's face off followed by the comment "Not such a funny joke anymore is it?". ;)

Then they can be carried away by her star kids and ripped apart.

I did find it strange though in SMG that she is supposedly so powerful but Bowser could walk over her basically in his flying air ships, to the point where she had to get a fat Italian plumber to save the day? Perhaps by Nintendo standards her backstory is decent but overall it is pretty weak in that it bears little connection to the overall game, and feels like it was thrown in there on a whim.

As an FYI, Miyamoto didn't even approve of her back story. In fact in an interview he said that the co-director actually implemented the story behind Shiggy's back. We don't know if SMG 2 will have the same kind of storytelling the first game had.

It won't, or at least that's how Miyamoto made it sound at the E3 roundtable.

I leave for a bit and ^ALL THIS^ takes place?  Talk about bringing balance to the force.

"Peach and Daisy look lovely in their sports outfits. But what about Rosalina? Hmm"

Rosalina is Nintendo's Super Galaxy Tranny and will therefore not have a lovely appearance in sporty short pants.  She got away with it in Mario Kart only because the bikes have a compartment for her rocket.

Ugh, that reminds me so much of the humor in that crappy 90's movie and thus should be avoided at all costs.  That's like the worst idea ever.

There is so much irony in this thread from GoldenPhoenix it's making other threads anemic by comparison, but the funniest to me are two things.

This is the most sexist thing I have ever read on this site, and it was said by you.  Sure, you are "imagining" how the character designers are thinking, but still, you are the one spouting the typical misogynist trope reducing childbirth into *ahem* "squirting."  The last person I heard say stuff like that wore a shirt that said "Never trust anything that bleeds for 5 days and lives" or something like that.

This is the character with Lipstick, High-heels, and jewelry-based attacks, right?  That's more stereotypical than anything else!

One thing not discussed here is cultural differences between Japan and America and how that ties into all this.  Japan is a pretty gender-role defined place.  I mean for example, it's typical for a female employee to quit her job in order to get married and take about 15 years to raise children before re-entering the work force and it is entirely expected and certain companies even help out with a little severance.  Try that in America, you'd be lucky to get a week off to actually have the baby in some places.

This is not to say that Japan is "better," but "different."  And this difference causes friction in fiction and requires a little more universal symbolism.  And one thing that transcends cultural boundaries for both East and West is the symbol of a woman as mother.  You speak of this as a product of a male dominated society, when historically, this role of motherhood was the source of all their "powers," so to speak.  In prehistoric societies, the people revered the woman as the source of all life, because they basically were.  Pre-scientific method and magical thinking caused this and once it was found out that men have just as much to do with childbirthing as women (and were able to out-muscle them), we usurped the power and replaced all goddess statues and stuff with male gods and stuff (Side note, we kicked ass, men!  What a feat.  High five!  UNF, take that!)

So this "Earth mother" archetype, while at times reinforced by men, was created by women in order to keep the goddess mystique and keep their power in pre-historic societies.  Evil video game developer men are not out to get women by way of making stereotypes.

Besides, notice how the only people with authority in the Mario universe are women.  I really don't think they are trying to be chauvinists, GoldenPhoenix.

Wendy O Koopa throws Candy not jewelry, I was referencing her personality and her attitude. Also I thought Pap ended this? Perhaps Deg needs some reading comprehension.

Pap's not my lord and master.  I am free to do as I please within the rules.

I'm going to ask, in a non-official capacity, that we regard the waters here as poisoned  As such, I ask that we terminate the discussion of gender-roles in this thread.  It isn't that this is an undeserving topic, it is that this thread has been so entrenched that it is beyond meaningful discussion.

In its place, I think this could be a good topic for general gaming.  If someone wants to make a respectful thread to that tune then by all means.

rosalina is one hot bitch.

Oh how perceptions differ, to Pro she is a tranny, to Dasmos she is super hot!

So you're saying that she is a Super Hot Tranny? 0_o
;)

trannies are the hottest bitches.

Our statements have reached compatibility.

Rosalina's packin' heat. meat

Guess that throws my complaints about her being a cliche out the window. :P

0_o Am I the only one thinking 'GP <3 Trannies?'

::rolls eyes::

GP was simply concluding that Rosalina isn't really subject to the gender role topic after all, because she's not female.  Merely 'special' or 'honorary' if you appreciate that sort of thing.

I think that Rosalina is actually really tiny and uses some trick with mirrors to make herself appear humongous.

Kind of like Oz?

Oh ****, GP rolled her eyes. TAKE COVER.

User warned for directly trolling another user. If this was meant to be a light hearted joke, that wasn't obvious enough. ~Pale

THAT'S NOT A WOMAN ITS A MAN BABY!

Rosalina cameo appearance confirmed in the next Cho Aniki game. Beware her MAN-BEAM!

There's something humongous, all right.

That's my line. =O

Roselina: The Virgin Princess
Peach: Dumb Blond
Daisy: Tomboy

Rosalina is my favorite automatically because she's the only heavy weight in Mario Kart that can steer around a turn with ease.... 

"Peach and Daisy look lovely in their sports outfits. But what about Rosalina? Hmm"

I think she looks great
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y267/n64/sportyprincesses.jpg

What an ADORABLE picture! And your icon is hawt too :D .

I just read most of this thread. I'm struggling to understand how it took the bizarre turn it did.

I think Rosalina is basically the Mario universe equivalent of a supreme being.

Why does Mario need to help, then? Because there wouldn't be a game otherwise, now would there? :P

That's very interesting you should mention that. Assuming nobody else has brought this up in the space I skipped over to post my reply, the original Donkey Kong arcade game was being developed as a Popeye game. Nintendo wanted to make a game with Popeye climbing a building to save Olive from Bluto at the top, when right before the game was slated to be released, the contract holders pulled the licensing rights. Nintendo had an 80% completed game and no franchise to market, so they took some loose King Kong inspiration, swapped the sprites around and birthed Jumpman, who we today know as Mario.